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2014-11-02, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
I've noticed that a lot of Wizard characters in fantasy books/movies/video games/etc tend to also be skilled swordsmen. Most notably Gandalf; he tends to use his sword more than he uses any kind of magic. This got me to thinking on the subject. A story might be pretty boring if a wizard just used magic for every little thing, right? Good swordplay can be pretty entertaining.
What I'm wondering is how I can pull that off with minimal effort for a wizard character, for mostly theatrics. Just something cool to do in between spellcasts, if an enemy closes in. Don't want to dedicate a whole build to it or anything. Nothing like being a Duskblade/Magus, or taking a fighting based PrC like Abjurant Champion. Maybe something like taking a single feat, assigning a few points to Strength, or casting a spell or two that'd turn a wizard into someone who won't look foolish swinging a sword.
Any thoughts?
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2014-11-02, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Slap the Skilled enchantment onto your favorite stabby bit and you're good to go.
Makes you act as though you have 3/4ths BaB and proficiency with the weapon for a +2 cost.Currently Playing:
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2014-11-02, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- In the Playground. Duh.
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
For starters, elves are racially proficient with the Longsword. If you have true strike (especially quickened!) prepared, you can make some pretty accurate shots, not to mention having access to bull's strength, and numerous other handy spells. Mage armor and shield are two obvious spells for armor stand-ins, as that's a +8 ac bonus right there. Finally, at mid-levels, you have tenser's transformation, which does the following:
Originally Posted by SRDWhite is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
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2014-11-02, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
At the first levels, you also have access to Master's Touch (Spell Compendium) which allows you to be proficient with any weapon touched for the duration of the spell.
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2014-11-02, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Just the kind of things I was looking for. Thanks all. :)
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2014-11-02, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
If you went sorcerer instead, you could take the Battle Sorcerer and Animal Companion alternate class features. You now have a medium base attack bonus and a pet that can help you fight.
Last edited by Jormengand; 2014-11-02 at 06:26 PM.
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2014-11-02, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
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2014-11-02, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Fist of Stone is a fantastic low-level spell for wizards who want to mix it up in melee - +6 Strength and a slam attack for a minute is exactly what the doctor ordered. Consider also the various "conjure a magic sword" spells such as Bade of Pain and Fear, Thunderlance, or Flame Whips.
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2014-11-02, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
The better spell would be Bite of the Weretiger, its the same level, but it grants +12 enhancement bonus to Strength, a +4 enhancement bonus to Dexterity, a +6 enhancement bonus to Constitution, a +5 enhancement bonus to natural armor, two claws and a bite, and Blind-Fight and Power Attack. All without a costly material component.
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2014-11-03, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Competent Sword play wizard. Main ingredients: Wizard5/Incantatrix 3/spellcaster X. Polymorph into a war troll. Persist Wraithstrike. Greater Mighty wallop a minotaur Greathammer. Add seasoning for flavour: Blink, greater mage armor, great mirror image, fly, bite of the x. UMD divine power wand.
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2014-11-03, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
RE: Incantatrix solves everything
Alternatively (to UMDing) you can get Arcane Disciple for the Hero domain and persist Divine Power natively. Though at this point we're moving beyond skilled swordsman and into melee monstrosity.Originally Posted by The Giant
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2014-11-03, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
I also am sorely tempted to dip Ruathar on any wizard for somewhere levels 6-8 unless otherwise occupied with a PRC. A one level dip grants longsword (or rapier) proficiency without losing any spellcasting. There are litterally no prereqs other than casting 3rd level spells, so you basically replace a wizard dead level with longsword proficiency as a class feature. It even comes with a free +1 longsword!
In my mind, this is the path I would put a theoretical Gandalf build on. Sword in one hand, staff in the other... Mage armor, shield. Possibly going for abjurant champion.
The build goes something like Wizard 6 / Ruathar 3 / abjurant champion 5. No lost spellcasting,
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2014-11-03, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Sadly that can get your wizard a bit mad. I like to throw FMI (faerie mysteries initiate) on my wizard and just boost my int through the roof. I currently have a wizard running around with the same hp as the barbarian in our group. 100hp at level 9 and he has 102hp.
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2014-11-03, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Constitution is a very useful stat to boost even when you have that - your Fortitude saves are rubbish, and Concentration is a super important skill. How are you supposed to vanquish your enemies while sloshed on dragon whiskey if you get your resilience from making out with pansies?
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2014-11-03, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
grab a great axe, use the spell whirling blade, line up opponents and attack
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2014-11-03, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Competent =/= outclassing Every other equal levelled primary melee user.
If you want to up an arms race like that, you can prepare to face similar levels of player optimization from enemy casters. If you can obliterate any other opponent withput challenge, you'll find yourself facing opponents that you can't just slap.
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2014-11-03, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
In Pathfinder, play a divination specialist and you get the ability to make an extra roll for success INT bonus plus 3 times a day that can be used for combat. That's a substantial increase in your chance of hitting. Combine that with playing an elf for the proficiency, a magic weapon, maybe the use of buffs now and then, and you'd be kind of decent.
If you cast Dispel Magic on my Gust of Wind, does that mean you're disgusting?
In real estate, they say it's all about location, location, location. In D&D I say it's about action economy, action economy, action economy.
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2014-11-03, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
BAB is so ridiculously overrated it's not funny. You don't need full BAB to hit things in melee reliably, especially when you have a bag of tricks like the wizard does. True strike, sure strike, wraithstrike, brilliant blade, and similar can ensure your attacks connect. In addition, spells like scimitar of sand, arcane maul, fist of stone, cutting hand, and thunderlance can make it so you don't need to buy weaponry, and ones like bladeweave, whirling blade and arrow of bone give you special effects on striking. That's not even including supporting yourself with spells like legion of sentinels, mystic shield, cloud of knives, stoneskin, or steeldance.
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2014-11-03, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Remember when Gandalf took one look at the One Ring and cast identify, followed by mind blank, followed by greater teleport, thereby ending the plot of the trilogy in 18 seconds? No?
Nothing resembling the D&D wizard class exists in Lord of the Rings, and Gandalf does not have levels in it. In D&D when a character has minor magical abilities, fights mostly with a sword, specialises in fighting evil creatures, can call an exceptional mount to his side and makes people feel braver by his presence, that's called a paladin. A lot of his flashier powers came from his Ring of Fire anyway.Last edited by Prime32; 2014-11-03 at 06:20 PM.
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2014-11-03, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-11-03, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-11-04, 05:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
It's Lord of the Rings.
Gandalf is a Wizard, because he says he's a wizard.
Frankly, I'd peg him as an Outsider with Searing Light, Daylight, Lightning once per day, and Glamdrang is a spell-storing weapon.
Unless I've missed anything (I haven't read the books or seen the movies in years) that should cover most of what he does, aside from his mount/animal companion."The trick with Psionics isn't looking for what's good, it's looking for what makes everything else better."
Spoiler: The False Nose of Vecna.
Make a disguise check every time you encounter someone new.
If the d20 roll results in a 13 (without modifiers) that person automatically assumes you are Vecna in a very poor disguise, and cannot be convinced otherwise, short of a wish spell.
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The world is a little less bright, now that it lacks you.
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2014-11-04, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
How about the part where he cast two druid spells (Fire Seeds and SNA 4) one right after the other?
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2014-11-04, 05:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2014-11-04, 06:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
"I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities... Quickly please, before they are out of range."
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!!"
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2014-11-04, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Well you can get Superior Resistance Permanancied, Weild an insanely buffed shuriken for 4k, don't be targetable, become a necropolitan, head band of concious effort, Ring of Diamond mind (reflex). There are many ways to make a save. Persist loresong on your concentration.
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2014-11-04, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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2014-11-04, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Spoiler: Gandalf's Secret...
So basically, a handful of cherry-picked spells, available about two times a day, and prestidigitation, because smoke boats aren't going to fly through rings themselves.
Now I'm wondering what spell he would've used to smite the bridge of Khazad-dûm. I'm pretty sure he'd cast Shield on himself when facing the Balrog, too.
EDIT: Curses, wouldn't having a good staff and a very high UMD check be enough for most of this? The staff for make magic is go thing seems to be a big deal in LotRs.Last edited by Tohsaka Rin; 2014-11-04 at 10:26 AM.
"The trick with Psionics isn't looking for what's good, it's looking for what makes everything else better."
Spoiler: The False Nose of Vecna.
Make a disguise check every time you encounter someone new.
If the d20 roll results in a 13 (without modifiers) that person automatically assumes you are Vecna in a very poor disguise, and cannot be convinced otherwise, short of a wish spell.
Minor Artifact.
In memory of Monty Oum, 1981-2015.
The world is a little less bright, now that it lacks you.
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2014-11-04, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
I think my experience with artificers has tainted me a bit, but I'm a fan of brute-forcing the issue thusly:
1. Acquire a continuous or a 1/day persistent (I forget which is cheaper) wondrous item of Master's Touch.
2. Acquire a UMD skill booster of sufficient power.
3. Acquire an x/day wondrous item of extended Divine Power, where x is the number of fights you're going to have to handle in one day, balanced against how much you're willing to pay.
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2014-11-04, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards: Competent swordplay with minimal effort?
Shatterfloor seems like it'd suffice. Sor/Wiz 3. Easy enough to put on a wand or staff.
You create a loud, thrumming vibration that builds to a painful crescendo before fading.
Creatures and objects in the area take 1d4 points of sonic damage per caster level (maximum 10d4), and can make a Will saving throw for half damage.
If the floor of the area is made of stone, wood, ice, or material any softer than those, the floor is pulverized to a depth of 6 inches, resulting in an area of soft dust, wood fragments, or loose crushed ice, as appropriate.
Any creature moving across this surface is reduced to half speed.Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2014-11-04 at 11:00 AM.
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d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class