Path of War now out! What do you like?

[stack]

If so, it won't actually work. Rats have 1 HD.

I'm not sure PF even uses fractional HD.

Precisely what prompted my question.

[PsyBomb]

Anyone else notice that there is some screwy stuff you can pull with Awakened Blade? Soulknife(Gifted Blade)4/Initiator3/Awakened10 can end up with a 22nd-level Soul Blade if your DM either allows you to put the Manifester Levels into the Blade, or if you use the High Power FAQ. Not sure how to stat that, really.

Couple of ways to use that combo, too, since if you finish out with an Initiator your IL ends up at 18.

[stack]

Hmm, it may actually be worthwhile to build a spear throwing character now. Spears are discipline weapons for scarlet throne, silver crane, and solar wind. Grab the ricochet weapon feat and you could be an awesome switch hitter. Add a belt of mighty hurling and you are in great shape.

[ErrantX]

Hmm, it may actually be worthwhile to build a spear throwing character now. Spears are discipline weapons for scarlet throne, silver crane, and solar wind. Grab the ricochet weapon feat and you could be an awesome switch hitter. Add a belt of mighty hurling and you are in great shape.

This makes me unreasonably happy.

-X

[stack]

This makes me unreasonably happy.

-X

Because it is an intended interaction or because someone found a nice unintended interaction? Strong, balanced, interesting unintended interactions are, in my opinion, a sign of a well designed system.

[malonkey1]

Because it is an intended interaction or because someone found a nice unintended interaction? Strong, balanced, interesting unintended interactions are, in my opinion, a sign of a well designed system.

I thought a sign of a well-designed system was just, like, a board that read "WELL-DESIGNED SYSTEM".

[jamieth]

I believe the intent is that the first level bonus feat is traded for IUS (and later GUS), and the section about bonus feats has a copy-paste error. That would fit in with earlier versions of the PrC. (As a side note, I much preferred the old Steelfist Bravo to the commando, flavour-wise.)

Hm... suddenly, the archetype loses much of its appeal. I'm pretty sure the character can be built on Thrashing Dragon alone... though I really wanted Broken Blade for fluff, Steelfist Commando's inability to gather a holy trinity of Weapon Finesse, Deadly Agility and TWF at level 1 really hurts.

By the way... since Acrobatic Gambit doesn't involve using a maneuver as part of gambit itself, you can recover a maneuver through it and immediately use it while enjoying Gambit's damage bonus, right? And do it round after round?

Hm... with Dex 20 and Cha 18 (doable with 25 point buy, though at the cost of severely dumping STR and WIS), Outer Sphere Stance, Acrobatic Gambit, Swift Claws, dual-wielding short swords means 2 hits per round, each dealing 3d6+9 damage. At level 1. I love it!

Update:

I thought a sign of a well-designed system was just, like, a board that read "WELL-DESIGNED SYSTEM".

Not necessarily. There is a relatively niche game (as in, computer game) called I wanna be the Boshy which, at one point, has a sign that states, literally, "Good level design this way". The level sign points to looks like this:

Spoiler

Show

[Greenish]

Hm... suddenly, the archetype loses much of its appeal. I'm pretty sure the character can be built on Thrashing Dragon alone... though I really wanted Broken Blade for fluff, Steelfist Commando's inability to gather a holy trinity of Weapon Finesse, Deadly Agility and TWF at level 1 really hurts.

Can't have everything, I guess.

By the way... since Acrobatic Gambit doesn't involve using a maneuver as part of gambit itself, you can recover a maneuver through it and immediately use it while enjoying Gambit's damage bonus, right? And do it round after round?

Should work, yeah.

Hm... with Dex 20 and Cha 18 (doable with 25 point buy, though at the cost of severely dumping STR and WIS), Outer Sphere Stance, Acrobatic Gambit, Swift Claws, dual-wielding short swords means 2 hits per round, each dealing 3d6+9 damage. At level 1. I love it!

Assuming you succeed with the tumble check, but then again, with 20 Dex and 18 Cha (added through the gambit), you should.


The enemy can of course easily counter the strategy by dropping his weapons, thus no longer threatening area, preventing you from using the Acrobatic Gambit, so ha!

[Jigawatts]

I'm really wanting to use this to play an "Elf", meaning an elven character that is a classical fighter/mage, but with all the fun new school mechanics. I'm thinking a Dervish Defender Warder, but then I cant decide if I want to take some Wizard and go Bladecaster or just jump straight into Mage Hunter.

[Larkas]

Can't have everything, I guess.

Should work, yeah.

Assuming you succeed with the tumble check, but then again, with 20 Dex and 18 Cha (added through the gambit), you should.


The enemy can of course easily counter the strategy by dropping his weapons, thus no longer threatening area, preventing you from using the Acrobatic Gambit, so ha!

All the reason I needed to make an army of pixie casters/manifesters!

[Novawurmson]

Hmm, it may actually be worthwhile to build a spear throwing character now. Spears are discipline weapons for scarlet throne, silver crane, and solar wind. Grab the ricochet weapon feat and you could be an awesome switch hitter. Add a belt of mighty hurling and you are in great shape.

They're also discipline weapons of Piercing Lance...which is definitely about spears!

[Lord_Gareth]

They're also discipline weapons of Piercing Lance...which is definitely about spears!

Nah bro, Piercing Lance isn't about spears. That would be silly.

It's the water balloon discipline.

[stack]

They're also discipline weapons of Piercing Lance...which is definitely about spears!

I'll factor that in once it is released.

[Ilorin Lorati]

If you're willing to put up with playtest rules, why wait?

[Novawurmson]

Nah bro, Piercing Lance isn't about spears. That would be silly.

It's the water balloon discipline.

Thrown splash weapon discipline confirmed?

[malonkey1]

Thrown splash weapon discipline confirmed?

"Thrown Splash Weapon" is three words...HALF-LIFE 3 CONFIRMED.

[Milo v3]

With a name like "Piercing Lance" I would've thought it was for mounted combat rather than spears.

[Lord_Gareth]

With a name like "Piercing Lance" I would've thought it was for mounted combat rather than spears.

Piercing Lance originally only worked for mounted characters, while they were mounted. This has been/is being changed so that some maneuvers are mount-enabled or mount-enhanced.

[Milo v3]

Piercing Lance originally only worked for mounted characters, while they were mounted. This has been/is being changed so that some maneuvers are mount-enabled or mount-enhanced.

Ah, fair enough.

[Anlashok]

So, overall really liking everything. A few things I don't though

-Solar Wind doing double duty as the much-sought after archer path and the desert wind substitute. If I want to be a more traditional archer themed martial adept or something that isn't fire-based I'm SOL. Especially weird given that one of the most common DW changes was simply allowing someone to sub out the element, not allowing a PoW initiator to in any capacity seems weird.

-Double weapon support is nice, but some of the chains are a bit rough, especially for double weapon finesse which ends up looking at 7 levels of feats, nine if you want something other than a quarterstaff.

-Heal and SS. The idea of someone who uses knowledge of anatomy and medicine to be a skilled assassin is cool. But the skill could use some in-book support to make it something more than Truespeak 2.0.


I really like traditions, but I want there to be more of them. Not much else to say there but I can envision some cool concepts around things like, say, a golden lion stalker or steel serpent warder and so on.

[Greenish]

-Solar Wind doing double duty as the much-sought after archer path and the desert wind substitute. If I want to be a more traditional archer themed martial adept or something that isn't fire-based I'm SOL. Especially weird given that one of the most common DW changes was simply allowing someone to sub out the element, not allowing a PoW initiator to in any capacity seems weird.

I'm kinda hoping for a non-supernatural (or at least less flashy) archery discipline, too.

A firearms-themed one would be cool too, with stuff to help with reloading and jamming guns and stuff. This might be in the works, actually?

[stack]

You could build a module out of the organizations; have a city under siege by bloody fangs, calling black thorn knights for help but there methods cause opposition from empyreal knights, while the desperate ruler spurns the defenders of the realm and something something scarlet...okay, needs work.

[Ilorin Lorati]

I'm kinda hoping for a non-supernatural (or at least less flashy) archery discipline, too.

A firearms-themed one would be cool too, with stuff to help with reloading and jamming guns and stuff. This might be in the works, actually?

ErrantX and Lord_Gareth both said that the other ranged discipline, Descending Gale, has been canceled for PoW2. This is despite the best efforts to convince them otherwise.

Maybe if they have enough commentary that asks them to try another avenue of approach to a ranged discipline, but as it sits right now we're looking at only having the one discipline going forward and seemingly no way to mitigate its glaring issues.

[Greenish]

ErrantX and Lord_Gareth both said that the other ranged discipline, Descending Gale, has been canceled for PoW2. This is despite the best efforts to convince them otherwise.

Sadness.

The thing is, there's only really two themes to hit for archery; powerful single shots (like snipers, handled by Solar Wind) and bullet/arrow spam.

What about the theme of non-burning arrows?

For that matter, a slight overlap doesn't seem to be a problem when it comes to melee disciplines. "Enemy-Hitting Strike - Hit the enemy as a standard action, deal XdY extra damage, force save vs. Condition."

[Anlashok]

That's a shame, I honestly see room for a lot of design space to be explored with.

There's nothing more traditionally martial for an archer. Really-good-archer should be a perfectly valid initiator concept rather than mystic-archer. No hate against mystic archers, just sometimes I'd rather have an archer that looks more practical. Think Scarlet Throne or Iron Heart.

Course, on the other end of the spectrum there's a ton of archers in fiction that rely on trickery and acrobatics. Bam, there's a third discipline: Your maneuvers are all about high mobility and support. Debuffs and special effects galore. Like... Black Seraph without the evil/intimidation flavors and some veiled moon thrown in.

Not sure I buy the "only one or two things you can do with a bow" argument when people are just tossing out random ideas that could build into disciplines that not only stand on their own as archers, but probably stand on their own holistically as well.

Could also make a gun oriented discipline that plays with gun-specific things. black powder smokescreens, tricks with burning barrels, revolver ocelot shenanigans, throw a pile of gun-fu on top of that and shake.

Plus, again, multiple elements. What's wrong with a lightning or ice themed archer?


...Does DSP have an idea box? We could go write up a couple disciplines for them and send 'em their way.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Greenish: I understand why you're upset, but I sense more venom in your post than is really warranted. The best thing you can do is come up and suggest non-sarcastic options for disciplines that are outside the "poke them with a million holes" and "give them ONE BIG HOLE" then hope it sticks.

For example, perhaps a Lightning-based AoE discipline? It's something both outside of anything ToB/PoW has done AND outside of the traditional ranged options.

Alternatively, perhaps a discipline that's less about using the weapon and more about the concepts of meditating on its use, providing both ranged and melee options equally throughout.

[Shinken]

...Does DSP have an idea box? We could go write up a couple disciplines for them and send 'em their way.

They actually do.

[Greenish]

Okay, I admit I missed how quite a few strikes are now "melee or ranged attack" or "any attack". I'd noticed Veiled Moon had gotten into ranged combat, but so has Golden Lion, apparently. Thrashing Dragon is still sadly limited to melee strikes and ranged strikes with only capstone being "melee or ranged".

[Edit]:

Greenish: I understand why you're upset, but I sense more venom in your post than is really warranted.

Maybe you're right. I didn't mean to force Fort saves (at least not hard ones), honest!

[Novawurmson]

Thrashing Dragon has several thrown weapon strikes.

[Greenish]

Thrashing Dragon has several thrown weapon strikes.

…Didn't I just say so?