Dreamscarred Press Announces: Path of War Expanded

[AGrinningCat]

Edit: Just a thought but what if War Paths were more restricted in maneuver recovery than other forms? Say rather than unlimited maneuver recovery as is the norm for maneuvers, require a character on a Warpath to expend spell slots to recover maneuvers. Solves the problem of losing a use for those domain slots that you don't have a good spell for, and makes Warpath maneuvers much more limited in use. Still disagree with the premise of giving an actual maneuver progression to a casting class, as noted above, but if you basically turn it into "Turn X Spell Slot into Y maneuvers" you could probably get something closer to balanced.

I agree with pretty much all you've said -- I'm currently running with a Warpriest and the last thing he needs is giving up his weaker domain in exchange for maneuvers.

I had a similar idea for the fix -- Rather than expending spell slots to refresh maneuvers, why not have the cost to learn them be the spell slots themselves? 1 Spell slot = 1 stance/maneuver known, up to my maximum known set by class progression. I feel this works a bit better than spending spells to refresh maneuvers, since Maneuvers are supposed to be more gain/lose than spells are.

When you level up, you can 'retrain' your maneuvers to a higher level by spending higher level slots, and forgetting older maneuvers and freeing up your lower level slots. I feel this opens up a lot more customization and planning to determine what kind of slots to give up, as well as being more costly for casters who want to get into the martial sides of things.

Could also work along side a very slow growth as well: 1 level 1 stance, 0 maneuvers at level 1 would mean that a cleric/warpriest could choose to just have 0 maneuvers + stance, or give up some of his first level spells to have that martial capability

[Mehangel]

I agree and think that as powerful as Maneuvers are, Warpaths should in addition to replacing the domain should have the recover mechanic with the expenditure of spell slots as a Standard or Full-Round Action.

[Elricaltovilla]

Some updates have been made to the Class Archetypes:

Knight Disciples lose Divine Bond

Vigilantes now have a capstone (and some extra class skills)

Some minor grammar corrections.

[Kaidinah]

I don't like the idea of using spells to regain maneuvers. I'd rather they give up spell slots every morning with a mechanic similiar to what the alchemist got.

[stack]

I don't like the idea of using spells to regain maneuvers. I'd rather they give up spell slots every morning with a mechanic similiar to what the alchemist got.

I like this idea.

[deuxhero]

Such a change favors clerics over more martially oriented casters.

[Seerow]

Such a change favors clerics over more martially oriented casters.

Which comes back to the core problem with having a single ACF that multiple classes of disparate power levels can take.

[Elricaltovilla]

Such a change favors clerics over more martially oriented casters.

Which comes back to the core problem with having a single ACF that multiple classes of disparate power levels can take.

Not if its still limited by a maximum maneuver level and/or a hardcap on the total number of maneuvers allowed. I still think that warpaths are an idea worth pursuing, but they do need to be updated to fit better into the expected power levels of Path of War.

[deuxhero]

Meant it more along the lines of "clerics have way more spell slots to drop and don't have to give up their highest level slots"

[Eox]

I'm not sure I quite get Martial Extracts. Can alchemists just pick whatever maneuver they want from any discipline every morning? Does the Martial Stance discovery let them bypass the maneuver level limits every other non-full initiator class gets? (Example: Readying three Primal Fury maneuvers to take Iron Hide Stance, an 8th level stance)

[stack]

Wondered if the PoW experts had any comment on my build concept here? If it works as well as I think, I would be happy to see it as an example build in the zealot guide.

[deuxhero]

@fox
Someone with Martial Study I and a high enough ability score (+9 at level 19 which is pretty easy to pull off with tomes/wishes) and Martial Training could actually get a 9th level maneuver from Advanced Study if they had Martial Study II or Advanced Study somewhere (for the required known maneuvers) though that's a separate thing.

[Snowbluff]

Did something just fly over my head?

It did. Malonkey is running the playtest I am in, and we are on a road and nothing has happened.

[Sayt]

Disappointed that the Monk archetype contains neither the Unarmed discipline (Broken Blade) nor the Mystical one (Veiled Moon).

Ask and ye shall get an explanation

I mean, I get it doesn't fit the Silver Fist, but it'd be nice to have a functional mystic monk.

Powerful Counterattack is oddly placed. A single +1d8 on counters/attacks of opportunity at 15th level seems rather underwhelming.

Yeah, that seems a little on the low side.


Also, the Demon-hand Warlock....is there supposed to be more of it? I kinda feel like there should be more of it, and I love what there is of it, but I don't really think it feels complete?

I'd probably find something to replace aegis with?

[PsyBomb]

I mean, I get it doesn't fit the Silver Fist, but it'd be nice to have a functional mystic monk.

I'm going to end up making mine a member of the Wanderers, go Steel Serpent and Veiled Moon with some tasty Iron Tortoise backup. One level of Deadly Fist to place Wisdom in all important positions (and dump the heck out of Strength), and we're off to the races. Splash some Akasha via feats and Gamla race for Armory of the Conquerer, and this guy becomes a very credible (and nigh-unavoidable, nigh-unstoppable) threat.

hmmm... now I need to finish writing this build out...

EDIT: I also agree, +1d8 situationally at that level is highly underwhelming. I'd consider it a dead level, effectively, even in a build based around Counters.

[Kaidinah]

Also, the Demon-hand Warlock....is there supposed to be more of it? I kinda feel like there should be more of it, and I love what there is of it, but I don't really think it feels complete?

I'd probably find something to replace aegis with?

The key parts of the Demon-Hand warlock are in the details.

Rereading the text, you'll notice that the hand does not actually replace either of your hand slots. It just based its enhancement bonus on one.

This is a natural attack that has Grapple, Reach, and Trip weapon properties. Did I mention that on most builds, its your only natural attack? Suddenly it uses strength x 1 and 1/2, and has reach.

You can have a shield on one arm, an axe in the other, and a hand floating 10 feet away. Suddenly you can use strength and a half on your maneuvers from reach, without a reach weapon. Your defensive focus gets increased range too, for the reach.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Where can I find the information on Piercing Lance? I can't seem to find it.

[Fenryr]

Never mind, wrong link. Gimmie a while.

I only got this about the mounted discipline. Seems to be out of date.

Hey, Elricaltovilla. Answer my questions, yo!

[Snowbluff]

Ever since Lord Gareth talked about the Quill, I wanted to know about the Quill.

[Kaidinah]

Ever since Lord Gareth talked about the Quill, I wanted to know about the Quill.

I agree. Traditions are one of my favorite parts of the Path of War series. They help the disciplines feel more organically part of a world, and are often fun to read.

[deuxhero]

A fighter archetype in Familiar Folio gives this ability

Share Training (Ex)

At 2nd level, when the familiar can see and hear its master, it can use any combat feat possessed by the eldritch guardian. The familiar doesn't have to meet the feat's prerequisites, but at the GM's discretion may be precluded from using certain combat feats due to its physical form. For example, an eldritch guardian's pig familiar with access to Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) would not gain the ability to use spiked chains, since it doesn't have any limbs capable of properly handling them.

This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level.

Martial Training happens to be combat feats.

Build idea
Anything (Need an SLA or to blow a trait to get improved familiars)
Fighter (Eldritch Guardian, Mutagen Fighter, Martial Master. Familiar is Mauler archetype) 8
1: Spirit's Gift
3: Martial Training I
4F: Combat Reflexes (though this will only work 1 way thanks to the negative dex mod)
5: Improved Familiar (Earth Elemental)
6b: Martial Training II
7: Broken Wing Gambit
8b: Martial Training III
ect:

You and your familiar (which by level 8 will have a strength of 23 at level 8 without you doing anything) double team enemies with lots of maneuvers (good discipline ideas?). You can also use Martial Versatility to spontaneously learn manuvers.

[Taveena]

So... the Demon-hand Warlock is relying on his shield offhand to threaten within 5 feet, right?

[Milo v3]

After reading Demon-hand Warlock, I am very tempted to make a gestalt Demon-Hand Warlock Zweihander Sentinel Warder/Hungry Ghost Monk to make Nightmare from SoulCaliber.

[Vhaidara]

You and your familiar (which by level 8 will have a strength of 23 at level 8 without you doing anything) double team enemies with lots of maneuvers (good discipline ideas?). You can also use Martial Versatility to spontaneously learn manuvers.

Golden Lion. "Hey buddy, I just hit him, why don't you hit him too?"

[Snowbluff]

I agree. Traditions are one of my favorite parts of the Path of War series. They help the disciplines feel more organically part of a world, and are often fun to read.

I agree.

We should have a secret Quill handshake.

Golden Lion. "Hey buddy, I just hit him, why don't you hit him too?"

If you're going Golden Lion, you should grab Optimistic Gambler.

Optimistic Gambler + Fate's Favored on a Warlord =

[Dusk Eclipse]

Speaking of Traditions, I'm assuming the traditions were designed with single class characters in mind, what happens if you join a Martial tradition at level one (let's say the Bloody Fangs) as a Stalker and trade out Steel Serpent, then at level 6 you become a Mage hunter. What happens now? Do you still get to select maneuvers from Primal Fury or does the tradition benefit only applies for those Stalker levels?

[Lord_Gareth]

Only applies for the Stalker levels. PrCs thus far don't care how you entered the class. I'll note the wording on Mage Hunter:

At every even-numbered level, a mage hunter gains new maneuvers known from the Scarlet Throne, Steel Serpent, Solar Wind, and Veiled Moon disciplines. He must meet a maneuver's prerequisites to learn it. He adds his full mage hunter levels to his initiator level to determine his total initiator level and his highest-level maneuvers known.

[malonkey1]

Only applies for the Stalker levels. PrCs thus far don't care how you entered the class. I'll note the wording on Mage Hunter:

You could still acquire more maneuvers from your tradition discipline with Advanced Study, right?

[Lord_Gareth]

You could still acquire more maneuvers from your tradition discipline with Advanced Study, right?

Yep! And it would be in-class for you because of the replacement.

[master4sword]

Some updates have been made to the Class Archetypes:

Knight Disciples lose Divine Bond

Vigilantes now have a capstone (and some extra class skills)

Some minor grammar corrections.

Naturally this gets announced right after I stat up a Knight Disciple/Shining Knight Paladin that has maneuvers and a mount to throw at my party. Oh well, now he's a multiclass Paladin/Warlord. Though between Missile Shield, Mounted Combat, and Unbreakable Gambit, I don't really need any counters readied.