Erfworld thread IV: In memory of King Saline

[Legato Endless]

Toolism was mostly Ansom's idea, after Wanda decrypted him.
Diplomacy, Propaganda etc. are not Stanley's strong points.

Indeed, the universalizing religion was founded by Ansom, but I was referring to the mandate of heaven originally conceived by Stanley.

[The Troubadour]

So Stanley missed, just like that? Without even any effort on Jillian's part to defend herself?
How unsatisfying.

[halfeye]

So Stanley missed, just like that? Without even any effort on Jillian's part to defend herself?
How unsatisfying.

Maybe he hit Ansom with a boost?

[The Glyphstone]

Is Stanley tactically shrewd enough to fake Jillian out with a non-damaging attack, or one intentionally aimed to miss, just to keep her focus on him long enough to get Ansom into attack position? Ansom is a GK unit, so Stanley would have known he was approaching even if he couldn't see him visually.

[Fjolnir]

Is Ansom going over the side with Jillian? I think it would be interesting if he dusted on the giving end of a similar tactic that killed him...

[Anteros]

It's not very good writing for us to lose 2 such plot critical characters without resolving their arcs, so they're probably going to be fine.

[TheStranger]

They'll land in a lake. The rest of Book 3 will be a buddy comedy with Ansom and Jillian walking to the nearest city. Oh, and they'll simultaneously take each other prisoner while falling, so they'll be handcuffed together.

[HalfTangible]

So Stanley missed, just like that? Without even any effort on Jillian's part to defend herself?
How unsatisfying.

One post. We don't even make it ONE post before someone spoils the thing.

Why am I still surprised...

[HandofShadows]

Stanley does not seem to be that surprised at that he missed. Just kinda dissapointed. I noticed that Ansom's chains are vanishing as well as he jumped at Jillian. Wasn't it a little while ago that the rules for taking a Ruler prisoner were being talked about?

[Killer Angel]

Speaking of grafic art... well, finally, that is a look of surprise.

[Aquillion]

Part of me is really hoping we get to see some unknown bit of Arkenhammer power here, they seem incredibly under powered compared to the other 3 we know of.

I'm not sure I agree. The Arkenhammer seems to be incredibly powerful in a straight-up fight -- prior to the Hobgobwin thing, it was the difference between the battle being winnable and unwinnable for Jillian's side. The Arkenpliers help you in a fight, sure, but only if you can kill people fast enough for the resurrection to benefit you; the Arkenhammer seems to basically just be a win button that annihilates people with lightning bolts.

It's just that Gobwin Knob hasn't been able to use it much because it's attuned wielder is also their leader and therefore has to be kept out of fights. Imagine if, say, Stanley was on the frontlines all the time and someone else was king.

[Welf]

Is Stanley tactically shrewd enough to fake Jillian out with a non-damaging attack, or one intentionally aimed to miss, just to keep her focus on him long enough to get Ansom into attack position? Ansom is a GK unit, so Stanley would have known he was approaching even if he couldn't see him visually.

I'd say yes. He looks to relaxed and sounds too calm for me to be surprised.

Also, I like the idea of Stanley the Tool outsmarting newly royalist Jillian. It would e the final official prove of stupidity.

[Adaon Nightwind]

Somehow, i feel sorry for Jillian here. She risked so much by making Ansom her Prisoner and trying to get him to turn, for all the times he saved her - and she did not want to see that the man she loved was gone. Now she will.

[NEO|Phyte]

Ansom is a GK unit, so Stanley would have known he was approaching even if he couldn't see him visually.

He was also a non-repatriated prisoner (at least until the last panel, note the shackles fading out of existence), though how much influence that has on Ruler Sense I don't know.

[Aquillion]

Maybe, maybe not. We've all been dreading it, but it's still not too late for Ansom to turn. I doubt Stanley is aware that he is / was in love with Jillian.

He'd know it if he was paying attention -- Wanda revealed it waaaay back in book 1 -- but even with his increased efforts to remember people's names, I doubt he remembers that much.

Also, why did Jillian expect him to answer that question about Wanda?

(However, this gives her a reason to capture and not croak him, if she wins.)

[The Glyphstone]

I gotta say, I do like this artist's rendition of megalogwiffs. The one gnawing on the dwagon's tale is very cheerfully disgruntled.

[Bird]

I'm not sure I agree. The Arkenhammer seems to be incredibly powerful in a straight-up fight -- prior to the Hobgobwin thing, it was the difference between the battle being winnable and unwinnable for Jillian's side. The Arkenpliers help you in a fight, sure, but only if you can kill people fast enough for the resurrection to benefit you; the Arkenhammer seems to basically just be a win button that annihilates people with lightning bolts.

It's just that Gobwin Knob hasn't been able to use it much because it's attuned wielder is also their leader and therefore has to be kept out of fights. Imagine if, say, Stanley was on the frontlines all the time and someone else was king.

In that case, it's like having a big bonus one battle at a time, which is a big deal tactically, but doesn't compare to the overwhelming strategic implications of massive intelligence on enemies, or of a massive upkeep-free army that grows all the time--not to mention second chances to use croaked casters, etc.

Dwagon taming is a nice perk of the hammer, since dwagons seem to be a fantastic unit. But I have to agree that the hammer doesn't quite measure up to the other tools.

To ryu's point--I tend to think that despite being attuned, Stanley hasn't fully realized the hammer's potential. The first thing we saw Stanley do with it was experiment with turning nuts into pigeons, implying that he hasn't figured out all of its secrets.

[Kornaki]

In that case, it's like having a big bonus one battle at a time, which is a big deal tactically, but doesn't compare to the overwhelming strategic implications of massive intelligence on enemies, or of a massive upkeep-free army that grows all the time--not to mention second chances to use croaked casters, etc.

Dwagon taming is a nice perk of the hammer, since dwagons seem to be a fantastic unit. But I have to agree that the hammer doesn't quite measure up to the other tools.

To ryu's point--I tend to think that despite being attuned, Stanley hasn't fully realized the hammer's potential. The first thing we saw Stanley do with it was experiment with turning nuts into pigeons, implying that he hasn't figured out all of its secrets.

For all we know he could turn each megalogwiff into a walnut by giving them love taps (he did something similiar against a bat in book 1). A weapon that prevents the other side from using flying units (by insta-nutting them) is a reasonable strategic advantage.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I'm not sure I agree. The Arkenhammer seems to be incredibly powerful in a straight-up fight -- prior to the Hobgobwin thing, it was the difference between the battle being winnable and unwinnable for Jillian's side. The Arkenpliers help you in a fight, sure, but only if you can kill people fast enough for the resurrection to benefit you; the Arkenhammer seems to basically just be a win button that annihilates people with lightning bolts.

It's just that Gobwin Knob hasn't been able to use it much because it's attuned wielder is also their leader and therefore has to be kept out of fights. Imagine if, say, Stanley was on the frontlines all the time and someone else was king.

Well the ArkenPliers are also powerful in a straight fight, they instakill Uncroaked, the other two we can't say, however infinite move has incredible combat uses, Imagine Attuned Slippers in water combat, you can give entire fleets infinite move.

[elros]

For all we know he could turn each megalogwiff into a walnut by giving them love taps (he did something similiar against a bat in book 1).

I was really hoping Stanley's attack would have been some unexpected response like that.

BTW, when did they reveal arken slippers?

[Legato Endless]

I was really hoping Stanley's attack would have been some unexpected response like that.

BTW, when did they reveal arken slippers?

The prequel. They may or may not still be in Erfworld.

[HalfTangible]

Dwagon taming is a nice perk of the hammer, since dwagons seem to be a fantastic unit. But I have to agree that the hammer doesn't quite measure up to the other tools.

It's been implied that Stanley didn't try too hard to do much else with it. It's possible the Arkenhammer can tame other units in an instant. Taming every natural ally you come across, for instance, would be one heck of an advantage.

Also, the Arkenhammer has multiple functions, the Arkenpliers and Arkenshoes only one each, as far as we know/can tell.

Though, the more we look at the Arkentools, the more I feel they're meant to fulfill different roles - work in concert, n' all that. The Arkenhammer is clearly a warlord's weapon, meant to be brought into the thick of the fray. The Arkenpliers raise entire armies at a time, and are meant for more of a rear command role (well, more rear than the hammer at least). The Arkenshoes basically teleport the user, so they're meant more for single-unit operations - the fulcrum point of an action, assuming I'm using that term correctly.

[ryuplaneswalker]

It's been implied that Stanley didn't try too hard to do much else with it. It's possible the Arkenhammer can tame other units in an instant. Taming every natural ally you come across, for instance, would be one heck of an advantage.

Also, the Arkenhammer has multiple functions, the Arkenpliers and Arkenshoes only one each, as far as we know/can tell.

Though, the more we look at the Arkentools, the more I feel they're meant to fulfill different roles - work in concert, n' all that. The Arkenhammer is clearly a warlord's weapon, meant to be brought into the thick of the fray. The Arkenpliers raise entire armies at a time, and are meant for more of a rear command role (well, more rear than the hammer at least). The Arkenshoes basically teleport the user, so they're meant more for single-unit operations - the fulcrum point of an action, assuming I'm using that term correctly.

Well we only ever saw one use of the Slippers/Shoes..whichever, not enough screentime to really get a hold of all of its functions, the Pliers have 2 different uses, kill uncroaked and create hyper uncroaked(no Upkeep), The Dish allows for Caster Links and to spy on the G-string, the Hammer Tames Dwagons(but not reduce their upkeep?) and unleash shocks, the hammer is the only one of the Tools that so far has an ability that actively drains Resources, there has got to be some other upside to it.

[HandofShadows]

The Hammer is a Carnamacy Tool. Other than it's being really flashy we really haven't seen much of that aspect of it yet.

[ryuplaneswalker]

The Hammer is a Carnamacy Tool. Other than it's being really flashy we really haven't seen much of that aspect of it yet.

Is it? where was that said? it seems to be Shockamancy(no pun intended there) more than anything..if it is supposed to be Carnamancy then Stanley is most certainly using it 99% wrong.

[HandofShadows]

Is it? where was that said? it seems to be Shockamancy(no pun intended there) more than anything..if it is supposed to be Carnamancy then Stanley is most certainly using it 99% wrong.

Are you all that surprised that Stanely would use it wrong?

[Killer Angel]

The Hammer is a Carnamacy Tool.

Is it? where was that said?

in the erfwiky it is said that Carnamacy is an Associated Discipline for the Arkenhammer.
But IMO the listed reasons are weak.

[MReav]

the Hammer Tames Dwagons(but not reduce their upkeep?) and unleash shocks, the hammer is the only one of the Tools that so far has an ability that actively drains Resources, there has got to be some other upside to it.

It can turn walnuts into birds (and vice versa), and the resulting hammer-pigeons can be use to make rations.

[Gez]

It can turn walnuts into birds

I like how, on the following page, the cracked walnut makes a "coo!!" sound as it is swept from the table.

[Legato Endless]

in the erfwiky it is said that Carnamacy is an Associated Discipline for the Arkenhammer.
But IMO the listed reasons are weak.

It's a fairly grasping attempt to fit all of the Arkentools into an aspect of Fate magic. Another issue with that theory is the
Arkenshoes just don't gel with that theory. Unlimited move seems like a Weirdomancy effect, or the teleportation possibly being Hat magic. The wiki gives a speculated connection to Dollamancy, but the reasoning is so vague it could be applied to any Tool.