Unhelpful Written Rules of D&D

[Fax Celestis]

Surely they meant creatures with the Crystalline sub-type, which is defined in ...

So you have to make a house-rule, as to what is Crystalline and what isn't, which means that this smells like a dysfunctional rule to me.

Not disagreeing, just that there are clearly crystalline creatures in existence, which makes the dysfunction not that none exist but that you can't define them.

[Chronos]

Oh, I'm not saying that "Crystalline" needs a subtype: It's a pretty safe case of know-it-when-you-see-it. But crystalline creatures are incredibly rare, so rare in fact that I'm pretty sure that none at all existed when the Shatter spell was published. Which makes this a functional rule, just an almost useless one.

[Sith_Happens]

As for my own nomination: The entire last paragraph of Sneak Attack. Let's go line by line, shall we?

Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks.

This is arguably a problem with what creatures qualify for critical hit immunity rather than a problem with Sneak Attack, but most non-precision damage users don't care all that much that they can't crit sometimes. Now the justification for a creature being immune to critical hits is generally that it "lacks vital areas." So let's double check that:

Undead: I guarantee that shooting a zombie in the knees is going to be just as effective as shooting a live human in the knees (DR 5/slashing aside).

Constructs: One word: Joints. Plus quite a few constructs are described as having internal mechanisms that one could potentially muck up via stabbing.

Oozes: Correct.

Plants: Varies from creature to creature. An Assassin Vine I can see being immune, but a Phantom Fungus? Hell no. If nothing else, it definitely has knees.

Elementals: This one's fine.

Swarms: Duh.

Incorporeal creatures: Arguable. Most incorporeal creatures strongly resemble critable creatures, so it depends on whether that resemblance is more than superficial.

Moving on...

A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment--

Good to know that a class feature that's supposed to go hand-in-hand with hiding is actually mutually exclusive with it. And once again, the justification is highly questionable; supposedly dim light or fog makes it too hard to tell where to stab, but I've been in dark rooms and foggy areas and that's bullocks.

--or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Major blood vessels. Achilles tendons. Knees. (What can I say, kneecapping is easy and effective.) Need I go on? Almost every part of a typical living creature has a "vital area" if you know where to look, and the entire point of Sneak Attack is that you know where to look.

The limitations on this ability are not only the most blatant case of the Guy at the Gym Fallacy in all of D&D 3.5, they were written by someone with a poor grasp on what a "guy at the gym" can and can't do in the first place. And the end result of them is a severe nerf to Rogues.

[nedz]

Oh, I'm not saying that "Crystalline" needs a subtype: It's a pretty safe case of know-it-when-you-see-it. But crystalline creatures are incredibly rare, so rare in fact that I'm pretty sure that none at all existed when the Shatter spell was published. Which makes this a functional rule, just an almost useless one.

Closest I could find in the SRD

• Animated Objects (could be Crystalline)
• Salt and Ice Mephits (maybe ?)

[Wardog]

Not really. How often do you find walls that are 5 feet thick?

Realistically, many/most castle or city walls.

Metal is crystalline.

And rock. And ice. (And probably all of Redcloaks solid elementals).

[Bronk]

My old list about this stuff:
Clutch of Orcus (Clr 3) - lose heart (BoVD, pg. 88)
Grim Revenge (Sor/Wiz 4) - lose arm (BoVD, pg. 97)
Heartclutch (Clr 5) - lose heart (BoVD, pg. 97)
Gutwrench (Undead Sor/Wiz 8) - lose guts (BoVD, pg. 97)
Lahm’s Finger Darts (Corrupt 2) - lose finger (BoVD, pg. 98)
Seething Eyebane (Corrupt 1) - lose eyes (BoVD, pg. 103)

Decerebrate (Psion/wilder 7) - lose part of brain (XPH, pg. 90)

Vile Rebellion (Sor/Wiz 7) - lose arms, legs and torso (Dragon #300, pg. 57)

Here are a few more ways to lose body parts in 3.5:

-body parts missing via spell:
eyes missing from seething eyebane
brain stem via decerebrate (XPH)
guts via Gutwrench (BoVD p97)
heart via Heartclutch (BoVD p98) - restore heart or die in 1d3 rounds
heart via Clutch of Orcus (BoVD p88)
hand via grim revenge vile spell (turns hand into a wight that attacks you)
fingers via Lahm’s Finger Darts (BoVD p98) - (fingers don’t regrow)
arm via grim revenge (BoVD p97)
any body part via flesh to stone (or other petrification) and subsequent breakage
every body part but the head, separately, via Vile Rebellion (Dr 300)

-body parts missing via monster:
eyes stolen by Gadacro (MMV)
eyes stolen by Ocularon (turns them into gas bombs)
eyes pecked out by a swarm of ravens
any body part ‘sampled’ by cadaver golem from HoH (intelligent flesh golem)

-monsters: rules exist to cut off hydra’s heads and giant squid’s tentacles

-replace body parts missing after a graft, or a failed ‘X’ of vecna trick

-Removing a tooth is a full round action, and regenerate can replace the tooth after (ToM)

[Sith_Happens]

And rock. And ice. (And probably all of Redcloaks solid elementals).

Rock is heterogeneous so probably doesn't count.

[ShurikVch]

That is more than the elf or dwarf subtype. They don't even get to be arrogant tree huggers or curmudgeonly alcoholics by their subtype.

There is a difference:
Goblinoid is a "meh" subtype: piece of fluff which is not even necessary true (except speaking Goblin)

Dwarf and Elf are "ghost" subtypes: they exist, but not described anywhere (and, unlike Goblinoid, not even a prerequisite to anything).
Still, they are better than Human subtype - it's not even in the Monster Manual!

[Telok]

Everyone knows about the Darkness spell, how it creates 20% miss chance and can lighten total darkness. But actually read the spell and compare it to the vision and light tables.

Thr Darkness spell makes it's area as bright as candle light.

It also supresses artifical light sources, lower level [light] spells, low light vision and darkvision. But it's candle light and does not block line of sight.

[Barstro]

This entire post (and probably thread) stems from trying to join real world laws-of-physics with d20 rules.

I hate keeping posts long, but I don't see many things that can be taken out for brevity.

As for my own nomination: The entire last paragraph of Sneak Attack. Let's go line by line, shall we?
This is arguably a problem with what creatures qualify for critical hit immunity rather than a problem with Sneak Attack, but most non-precision damage users don't care all that much that they can't crit sometimes. Now the justification for a creature being immune to critical hits is generally that it "lacks vital areas." So let's double check that:

Undead: I guarantee that shooting a zombie in the knees is going to be just as effective as shooting a live human in the knees (DR 5/slashing aside).

Constructs: One word: Joints. Plus quite a few constructs are described as having internal mechanisms that one could potentially muck up via stabbing.

Plants: Varies from creature to creature. An Assassin Vine I can see being immune, but a Phantom Fungus? Hell no. If nothing else, it definitely has knees.

Incorporeal creatures: Arguable. Most incorporeal creatures strongly resemble critable creatures, so it depends on whether that resemblance is more than superficial.

The problem here is not so much the rule as it is the interpretation of "precision damage". Any thug with an axe can go after (or inadvertently hit) a knee. That's not what sneak attack (backstab, vital strike, or whatever synonym) does. The attack needs to be pictured as ruining some internal vital organs. The random knee chopping is incorporated in the randomness of the damage roll. If you look at it as vital organs (lung, heart, etc.) the above all make sense.

(RE: Concealment) Good to know that a class feature that's supposed to go hand-in-hand with hiding is actually mutually exclusive with it. And once again, the justification is highly questionable; supposedly dim light or fog makes it too hard to tell where to stab, but I've been in dark rooms and foggy areas and that's bullocks.

Again, the damage is supposed to be because the trained individual can very precisely get to a hard to find vital organ. I assume this started with rogues only being able to use piercing weapons, but then it all morphed through the generations to include other weapons. When looked at this way, it is easy to see why concealment would have such an effect. Rogues just need a good way to bypass or ignore concealment.

Major blood vessels. Achilles tendons. Knees. (What can I say, kneecapping is easy and effective.) Need I go on? Almost every part of a typical living creature has a "vital area" if you know where to look, and the entire point of Sneak Attack is that you know where to look.

Again, those same points can be inadvertently destroyed by someone with an axe. Precision damage is a special art.

And the end result of them is a severe nerf to Rogues.

Well... true.

But I submit that the rules are not bad, or poorly written, or useless. Instead, they do not do what you think a Rogue should do based on applying the real world.

Not that I disagree with you. But the rules taken as a whole are not useless or contradictory. Sometimes a Rogue can do more damage than all other party members combined. Sometimes they just need to sit back and sharpen their knives while everyone else does the work.

[Zombimode]

Constructs: One word: Joints. Plus quite a few constructs are described as having internal mechanisms that one could potentially muck up via stabbing.

You're reducing Constructs to mechanical constructs, which only make a tiny fraction of the set of creatures of the construct type. Most constructs resemble, or are, golems. A golem is a heap of animated matter with no mechanical parts whatsoever.

[dascarletm]

You're reducing Constructs to mechanical constructs, which only make a tiny fraction of the set of creatures of the construct type. Most constructs resemble, or are, golems. A golem is a heap of animated matter with no mechanical parts whatsoever.

Spoiler: SNEAK ATTACK!

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[Zombimode]

I'm pretty sure "Power Attack" were the words you wanted to say because thats what the picture is showing.

[dascarletm]

doubt it. Did you not see the flanking going on there?

Spoiler: frozen stuff

Show

also pretty sure Hans is a rogue. Doubt he took power attack.

furthermore! power attack doesn't remove legs. Therefore I win.

[Necroticplague]

Even a solid mass of material, liquid or solid, has weak points. Points you can strike that are more vulnerable than others. If you fight a hole with a vaguely humanoid shape, you avoid hitting the curved parts (which would deflect your weapon off of them), and instead aim for any "hooks" where two body parts meet that deflect force in an advantageous manner to you. Plus, unless its a perfectly homogenous creature, it would likely still have part of it that are weaker than others (maybe you smash at a crack in a stone golem, or a slightly rusty patch in an iron one) that Sneak Attack could be targeting.

More on-topic, partial charges are one thing I'd slot in this category. Not the idea as a whole, I actually love it. However, the fact that you can only perform one when you're limited to a standard or move action, is definitely one. If its an action that takes a standard action, then why are you suddenly unable to do it if you have a move action to use?

[Troacctid]

More on-topic, partial charges are one thing I'd slot in this category. Not the idea as a whole, I actually love it. However, the fact that you can only perform one when you're limited to a standard or move action, is definitely one. If its an action that takes a standard action, then why are you suddenly unable to do it if you have a move action to use?

Definitely with you on this one. They changed charging to a standard action in 4th edition and I think it makes a lot more sense that way.

[The Viscount]

The interaction of improved grab, Constrict, and rake. Yes, they all interact. The worst part is that they're sometimes all three on the same monster.

The fact that a grappling creature is flatfooted to all except other creatures in the grapple. There is one feat that allows you to deal SA vs grappled foes, but it requires you be wildshaped.

I'm also just going to add the fact that multiple creatures can participate in a grapple. Has anyone used it? Did anything come of it?

[atemu1234]

I'm also just going to add the fact that multiple creatures can participate in a grapple. Has anyone used it? Did anything come of it?

What's the french word for 12?

[Andezzar]

More on-topic, partial charges are one thing I'd slot in this category. Not the idea as a whole, I actually love it. However, the fact that you can only perform one when you're limited to a standard or move action, is definitely one. If its an action that takes a standard action, then why are you suddenly unable to do it if you have a move action to use?

There are no partial charges in 3.5. There is only the Charge Full Round action. This Full Round Action however is allowed to be performed even if the character can only take a move or standard action. In this case the character can only move his speed (not double his speed). The reason why the Charge action is not generally available as a standard action is because the designers do not want characters to change direction "during" a charge without investment.

What's the french word for 12?

Douze. What's that got to do with anything?

[atemu1234]

Douze. What's that got to do with anything?

Television show reference .

[Vogonjeltz]

snip

Not playing any Eberron campaigns, I'd never even heard of this feat until now. I think it's an interesting simulation of having the ability to act as a skilled researcher. Are there rules anywhere else for how to handle research? Or is this basically left up to the DM in core?