FSN: Unlimited Blade Works anime thread - ZeroRider was so much better

[Sith_Happens]

I thought it was pretty obvious, though on the other hand I've seen my share of time travel stories, so I'm no stranger to the whole "paradox someone out of existence" plan. But I did think they called it out--Saber had that one line of "Killing him doesn't mean you'll disappear, because Guardians are outside of time." Which Archer was like, "Well, there's a chance." He doesn't just want to physically kill Shirou, he wants to destroy Shirou's ideal and goals, so that it snuffs out his Heroic Spirit ideal as well. If he martyred Shirou, it would probably make it more likely that Shirou became a Guardian.

Given what Archer presumably knows by way of Saber about just how much time paradox the Throne can handle, I'm really not sure why he thinks there's any chance of any variation of such a plan working.

[Eldariel]

Given what Archer presumably knows by way of Saber about just how much time paradox the Throne can handle, I'm really not sure why he thinks there's any chance of any variation of such a plan working.

Saber has never really been in her own time. I don't think Archer knows of any instances where a hero was summoned to their own time and killed themselves (albeit in a different timeline). I think his plan is actually as sound as it ever gets; it's the only thing in his power that could ever possibly work, so it's not like it would cost him much to try.

[-D-]

I think his plan is actually as sound as it ever gets; it's the only thing in his power that could ever possibly work, so it's not like it would cost him much to try.

Well, except for the part thay it's actually completely insane.

Wouldn't his bet be to cause a paradox by going into past and helping Kiritsugu stop the grail.

Benefit #1: You save way more people, including yourself.
Benefit #2: You hang with your dad.
Benefit #3: You can still kill your younger version.

[JCarter426]

Archer doesn't get to choose who summons him, though. Kiritsugu didn't have a catalyst for Archer, and he was specifically trying to summon Saber anyway. He only managed to get summoned at all because Rin messed up.

[-D-]

Archer doesn't get to choose who summons him, though. Kiritsugu didn't have a catalyst for Archer, and he was specifically trying to summon Saber anyway. He only managed to get summoned at all because Rin messed up.

It's stated that he pretty much wished to be summoned during this Grail war. He should have wished harder for other. Also Rin didn't have Catalyst to summon him, the translation states that Archer had the Catalyst. Rin just summoned him, because he was close to her, when she randomed.

[JCarter426]

That doesn't change anything. Archer wishing harder wouldn't have made Kiritsugu summon him instead of Saber. The circumstances just weren't in place. They were this time, because Rin messed up, had no catalyst to summon a specific Heroic Spirit, and got Archer due to wibbly-wobbly stuff. But no such situation could have occurred in the previous war.

[Prime32]

Rin did have a catalyst, even if she didn't realise it. She used the pendant to provide mana for Archer's summoning ritual.

[JCarter426]

Technically it wasn't a catalyst, but yeah, there was still a link between Rin and Archer that allowed for the summoning. He had no such link with anybody in the previous Grail War, and for the most part they summoned specific Heroic Spirits with catalysts.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Technically it wasn't a catalyst, but yeah, there was still a link between Rin and Archer that allowed for the summoning. He had no such link with anybody in the previous Grail War, and for the most part they summoned specific Heroic Spirits with catalysts.

Plus, wouldn't that mean he'd have to somehow outprioritize Gil?

[-D-]

He had no such link with anybody in the previous Grail War, and for the most part they summoned specific Heroic Spirits with catalysts.

This part is hard to understand. I'm nearly sure he had some keepsake of his father.

[JCarter426]

Hmm, I suppose. But he'd still have to somehow stop the summoning of Saber, for which everything was done correctly, real catalyst and all. And as far as I'm aware there's no precedence for this.

[Sith_Happens]

Saber has never really been in her own time. I don't think Archer knows of any instances where a hero was summoned to their own time and killed themselves (albeit in a different timeline). I think his plan is actually as sound as it ever gets; it's the only thing in his power that could ever possibly work, so it's not like it would cost him much to try.

Saber's wish, were it to be granted, would cause her to have never qualified for heroic spiritdom, which is the same paradox that Archer is banking on. It's known canonically that Saber would nonetheless continue to exist as a heroic spirit after having her wish granted, though now that I think about it I don't know or remember if this is ever stated in FSN or if it's only or side materials or something Nasu said in an interview.

[Prime32]

Saber's wish, were it to be granted, would cause her to have never qualified for heroic spiritdom, which is the same paradox that Archer is banking on. It's known canonically that Saber would nonetheless continue to exist as a heroic spirit after having her wish granted, though now that I think about it I don't know or remember if this is ever stated in FSN or if it's only or side materials or something Nasu said in an interview.

Saber's deal is that she gets transported through time to participate in every Grail War at the moment before her death, and in exchange if she actually obtains the Grail she has to become a Counter Guardian like Archer.
Saber currently isn't a Heroic Spirit at all. That is, she's not a magical construct with a copy of a hero's personality and abilities - she's the original person, which is why she can't enter spirit form. You can't become a Heroic Spirit of either type until you die.

[Eldariel]

Saber's wish, were it to be granted, would cause her to have never qualified for heroic spiritdom, which is the same paradox that Archer is banking on. It's known canonically that Saber would nonetheless continue to exist as a heroic spirit after having her wish granted, though now that I think about it I don't know or remember if this is ever stated in FSN or if it's only or side materials or something Nasu said in an interview.

It's not quite the same; Archer is banking on himself being the one to actively kill himself (note how he goes to great lengths to avoid anyone else killing Shiro) to create a double paradox while Saber is merely wishing to remake the selection of the king, through the Grail's power.

[Pronounceable]

Episode 20: Knowing What Adapting Means
-So they made those terrible episodes to save up all the competence for this one? A regrettable trade but it's better for the overall thingy.
-I'm shocked they could restrain themselves from adding even more unfitting lolShinji moments.
-At this point we probably do have enough Emiya remixes.
-Don't like the new song, it shouldn't play there.
-Did we really need that many flabbergasted Saber shots?
-It was the awesomest episode since the first few.
-Most importantly,

Spoiler: Fate Zero

Show

[Eldariel]

Hm. Archer uses a European-styled bow and recites in English, while Shirou uses a Japanese-styled bow and recites in Japanese. Clearly Archer is designed to be something a bit foreign in spite of being Emiya (this goes back to the source material, of course; again just something I never really paid attention to before).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I do agree that the new song was a bit of a ToneBreaker (get it?), but wow. So this is what stuff has been building up to, huh? Yeah, it delivered. Shirou finally figures out how to fight for something concrete and real. I loved how Archer stripped Shirou's ideals and motivations bare, and challenged him to give a response. That was really cool, and I loved how it resolved both of their characters.

I was sorely wishing to see Shinji get Gae Bolg'd, but what they did instead was even more hilariously fitting. I approve. Dang, Lancer. That was awesome.

[Sith_Happens]

Spoiler: Oh, wait, should I have spoilered this initially?

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Mind screwy speculation time: Was Shirou Archer in the timeline that Archer hails from?

[HMS Invincible]

Mind screwy speculation time: Was Shirou Archer in the timeline that Archer hails from?

IIRC, Fate stay night shirou becomes archer across all versions, but UBW Shirou will become a different Archer. I hope that makes sense.

[DoctorFaust]

IIRC, Fate stay night shirou becomes archer across all versions, but UBW Shirou will become a different Archer. I hope that makes sense.

Spoiler: Servant identity

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Nope. To quote an interview with Nasu on the subject,

I’ll just say now that [Shirou] doesn’t become a Heroic Spirit in any of the routes, but the possibility is still present in all of them as well. Basically, the probability of it happening is almost zero.

The timeline Archer's from is closest to the Fate route, but it isn't quite the same timeline. He won the war with Saber, but then Illya died afterwards, and then bad things happened.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Spoiler: Technically nothing that hasn't been said outside spoiler blocks but

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I think Sith's question was whether, in the "route"/possibility from which Archer EMIYA originated, the Archer of the Fifth Holy Grail War was still Archer EMIYA.

[Sith_Happens]

Spoiler: Technically nothing that hasn't been said outside spoiler blocks but

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I think Sith's question was whether, in the "route"/possibility from which Archer EMIYA originated, the Archer of the Fifth Holy Grail War was still Archer EMIYA.

Spoiler: Archer

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Yes, this.

[Pronounceable]

And now for something completely different, entertained Gil: https://youtu.be/gcsMSmnPZ9c?t=56s

[CarpeGuitarrem]

And now for something completely different, entertained Gil: https://youtu.be/gcsMSmnPZ9c?t=56s

I need a way to extract that laugh with none of the dialogue.

[Eldariel]

Two huge blocks of exposition and explanation is a bit much for a single episode. It needed to be explained, I suppose, but regardless, that was basically a flashback episode.

[Pronounceable]

Episode 21: Back to Mediocre
Bad pacing was bad and baddened the climactic battle. It should've ended last week, far too much space has been wasted on bloat for two episodes. The adaptation continues to be less than stellar, I think I'm gonna start blaming director for this (I hear that's a popular opinion).

At least Shinji finally won.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah, the pacing was weird, but holy big bad monologue--and if there's anyone who gets to monologue, it's Gil.

Also, good riddance Shinji, you will be missed by exactly nobody.

[Eldariel]

I have to say, all the blushing and skipping around doesn't really make sense with this particular version of this scene Also, they're apparently going with the True End since Saber's answer was considered in this episode.

[Pronounceable]

Episode 22: Meh
There's nothing at all that I'd particularly care to see in this part. UBW has ran its main course, I only need the final battles now. I've seen pics of Last Shinji* too, so I see no reason to not skip this episode. It'll be the only episode I'll have missed.


*Stop playing Dark Souls and finish Tsuki remake you Mushroom jerkwad.

[DoctorFaust]

I have only one thing to say about this week's episode.

Bwahahaha! Ufotable, you massive gorramn teases. The episode's a cliffhanger, and you went with the mana transfer dolphins.