Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Avilan the Grey]

I find it strange that one duchy and two other counties in the Byzantine empire have been Swedish (and catholic) property for 10 years and the Emperor has not taken action.

Also, thank god for elective monarchy.
My heir's wife refuses to get pregnant. The Idiot (his brother, the heir to Rus) has 6 kids. But I am at least TRYING to raise them, in turn, to become fitting rulers, later.

[Hydranova]

There's always the knife and envelope. Or you could give one of the better kids a duchy, thus making him eligible as well.

[Avilan the Grey]

There's always the knife and envelope. Or you could give one of the better kids a duchy, thus making him eligible as well.

Well, the wife died all of a sudden (Stress) making the son king of Rus before i could do that.
Not that it REALLY mattered, the family is widespread and about 30% of all nobles are part of the dynasty...

Anyway, it seems that the bonus (fertility) you get for "wanting a son" doesn't kick in until you play the person... Because the moment my prefered heir became king, his wife finally got pregnant. And got a son.
Lucky, too. She was 37 at the time!

[Leecros]

Got into a situation where my king outlived both my son(who was a Duke) and grandson. Absolute Cognatic succession tells me that the sister of my grandson was not married matrilinealy and had 5 kids not of my dynasty.

fortunately during her reign i was able to put succession back to elective. A terrible misjudgement on my part.

thank god for elective monarchy.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

My De Normandie game is still going well. Some interesting religious conversions have been happening. The Wends are split into two sides of the same family. One, now Prince of Veligrad, is solidly Catholic. The other, Pomerania, was Catholic for a while, but their High Chief couldn't convert his heir, so upon his death the King of Bohemia went and conquered Lubeck and area.

The Pechenegs have also had some fun. A few years ago they had an Orthodox Khagan, but that led to some Fun, so they went back to Tengriism. When the Cumans went after them, though, they kinda split up. Now there's a Catholic Pecheneg Wallachia, and an Orthodox Vlach from the same old family who claims, with Byzantine backing, to be the true Khagan of the Pechenegs. He has almost no power though.

The Muslim world is a wreck. North Africa WAS pretty much evenly split between Almoravids and the Zirids, until the Banu Suleim got independence from the Zirids. The Almoravids are a VERY interesting case; as is historical, the Emir of Marrakesh starts with more power than the actual Almoravid leader. Historically, the line of Emir Tashfin ends up usurping power. In this game, they simply single-handedly control practically all of North Africa, with the Sultan having only his one province, plus another powerful vassal to the south, in the traditional lands they came from. Oh, right, and they've been Zirid for several generations now.

The Seljuks and the Fatimids both collapsed fairly soon after one another. Khorasan and Central Persia is controlled by the Hassanid dynasty, the Persian Gulf, Oman and Yemen is all controlled by Seljuks under the Hassanids, and eastern Persia is controlled by the Ghaznavids. Western Persia and Daylam are controlled by a Kurdish dynasty, and the Abbasid Caliphate took advantage of the situation to completely dominate al-Jazira.
The Fatimid collapse led to a jumble of competing dynasties in Egypt, and, strangely enough, a Hurufi Caliphate in southern Syria. The Hurufis only just lost Jerusalem to a crusade, and at the same time had the northern third of their Caliphate... turn Nestorian and get independence, including holding the Holy City itself. What?

Oh, and the Hashimids in Medina managed to turn Medina into a custom Kingdom, pretty much just from being left alone for so long.

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, 100 years left, nothing more to conquer, really.
As I said I have played "realistic" and am now forced to push the boundaries of that if I want to continue to actually do ANYTHING but feasting once a year for 100 years...

[OrcusMcP]

Okay, 100 years left, nothing more to conquer, really.
As I said I have played "realistic" and am now forced to push the boundaries of that if I want to continue to actually do ANYTHING but feasting once a year for 100 years...

Time to start giving your vassals more land and responsibility, while simultaneously squeezing them dry of tax. Wait for the inevitable revolt.

Alternatively, if you don't have Way of Life yet, get Way of Life. Adds a lot of cool non-war stuff to do.

[Grytorm]

Hello. Started playing again and got the old gods DLC. So I started a game (not very far into it) in the Nubia area. I don't remember the exact start, some 16 year old kid. And I am already king of Nubia in about 30 years at most. But I can't murder my son. I guess they made it so you can't kill your heir? I was fine with some splitering before the eldest dies and now I am left with a low stated fool who I have already tried to imprison and execute. And my son escaped to the court of someone who then became my vassal. Any ideas or only wait for him to die and suffer through his lack of stewardship.

[Flickerdart]

Hello. Started playing again and got the old gods DLC. So I started a game (not very far into it) in the Nubia area. I don't remember the exact start, some 16 year old kid. And I am already king of Nubia in about 30 years at most. But I can't murder my son. I guess they made it so you can't kill your heir? I was fine with some splitering before the eldest dies and now I am left with a low stated fool who I have already tried to imprison and execute. And my son escaped to the court of someone who then became my vassal. Any ideas or only wait for him to die and suffer through his lack of stewardship.

Yep, I think this was a change from around the Old Gods patch - you can't murder your heir under Gavelkind, nor dump all your titles on him so that the other children get less.

The best way to dispose of heirs is to force them to take the vows and become monks (not sure if Coptics can do this though) or making them your chaplain and sending them to convert the nastiest vikings you can find (though all council jobs have positions that might result in imprisonment or death). Making them flank leader during a particularly one-sided battle also reduces their chances of living.

Now that he's in another court though, you could try and conquer the court he's in, or bribe him lots and invite him back into your realm.

[Grytorm]

Yeah. As I said the court is that of one of my vassals. I got lazy and didn't want to just take it, so I went for DeJure claims. And the Coptics, I don't know about Monks but I can't force him into a bishopric. I am still young. Perhaps a solution can be had. Someday I might find a solution.

I like the not being able to dump lands idea. But the no murder is weird. I did occasionally give lands to sons usually when I had castles over the limit.

[Sange]

Yeah. As I said the court is that of one of my vassals. I got lazy and didn't want to just take it, so I went for DeJure claims. And the Coptics, I don't know about Monks but I can't force him into a bishopric. I am still young. Perhaps a solution can be had. Someday I might find a solution.

I like the not being able to dump lands idea. But the no murder is weird. I did occasionally give lands to sons usually when I had castles over the limit.

You can't murder any of your children, sadly. Which is hwy I never play Ironman because I'm always using the 'murder your children' mod.

[Flickerdart]

And the Coptics, I don't know about Monks but I can't force him into a bishopric.

For people who are your direct vassals (might be only unlanded) there should be an option "order to take the vows" in the diplomacy menu. Although there was a hilarious bug where a monk could still be the Tanist, whereupon he inherited the title, it was immediately destroyed because monks can't hold titles, and Scotland ceased to exist in a puff of logic.

[tyckspoon]

Somewhat complicated title/inheritance question: Still playing the Republic of Amalfi. This is a Duke-level title. I've just about grown beyond what I can usefully do while holding only that title plus county titles, and I'm considering usurping/creating another dukedom or two. The question is: How do I/is it possible to hold an outside title of equal rank while still ensuring that I/my dynasty remains a valid Patrician and won't accidentally destroy the Republic should I allow the Dogeship to pass outside of my control? Is it as simple as making sure my primary title is always Lord-Mayer/Prince-Mayor/whatever, so I'm still of the City/Republic government type, or should I just dump a bunch of cash into my heir's election fund and ensure no other family ever gets to be Doge? (I had a previous game where I accidentally went Feudal, and while I was still a Patrician when I actually won the election my Countship overwrote the Republic and destroyed it instead of making me Doge. I am desirous of this *not* happening again, because All The Money.)

[OrcusMcP]

Somewhat complicated title/inheritance question: Still playing the Republic of Amalfi. This is a Duke-level title. I've just about grown beyond what I can usefully do while holding only that title plus county titles, and I'm considering usurping/creating another dukedom or two. The question is: How do I/is it possible to hold an outside title of equal rank while still ensuring that I/my dynasty remains a valid Patrician and won't accidentally destroy the Republic should I allow the Dogeship to pass outside of my control? Is it as simple as making sure my primary title is always Lord-Mayer/Prince-Mayor/whatever, so I'm still of the City/Republic government type, or should I just dump a bunch of cash into my heir's election fund and ensure no other family ever gets to be Doge? (I had a previous game where I accidentally went Feudal, and while I was still a Patrician when I actually won the election my Countship overwrote the Republic and destroyed it instead of making me Doge. I am desirous of this *not* happening again, because All The Money.)

You're probably going to be better off, stability-wise, to create a King level title, then you only have to worry about the main title.

[Flickerdart]

Is Amalfi in Sicily or Italy? Since those tend to get controlled by Byzantines/Karlings respectively, it might be tricky to claim the kingship.

[Artanis]

Is Amalfi in Sicily or Italy? Since those tend to get controlled by Byzantines/Karlings respectively, it might be tricky to claim the kingship.

It's in the boot part of de jure Sicily. A custom kingdom is probably an option due to all the duchies around there being tiny.

[tyckspoon]

It's in the boot part of de jure Sicily. A custom kingdom is probably an option due to all the duchies around there being tiny.

Toward the northern part of Sicily, actually. Still in the boot, but more up in the cuff region? My land borders Italy now. I'm pretty sure I can punch out Byzantium or Italy if I have to - Italy actually passed out of Karling control, although since the people it passed to are the dynasty that controls Bulgaria it's still pretty intimidating. But still, I have enough cash flow to keep 2 merc companies on retainer and still run positive (as long as I don't have to ship anybody anywhere. Boats be expensive) and my Strong Genius Martially-educated ruler gets nearly double levies from his Martial score. Also the Byzzies are still in the middle of that election law revolt I mentioned.. hmm. If that manages to last long enough for the truces to run out I'll actually be in distance of making Sicily by grabbing another province from the revolt and one from the Empire proper. And one of my vassals is taking independent action to try and relieve Italy of the one province it still has that's in the middle of my territory.. and he hasn't been stomped yet.

Could easily do a custom Kingdom instead, I have the lands to usurp or create all of the little 2-county Duchies that surround Amalfi, but I don't have Charlemagne to enable that.

[Flickerdart]

You really shouldn't be afraid of Bulgaria. The land is poor and their levies are constantly drained from pagan attacks and Byzantium trying to claim de jure land.

[tyckspoon]

Byzantium's had its issues in this game, although they're looking pretty decent right now since that Empress finally came of age and managed to put down the revolt. Bulgaria.. I dunno, they're like the twice of size just de jure Bulgaria right now. Take 'em a while to get into the action where I am since they'd either have to march overland or launch ships from the wrong side of the landmass, but I'd certainly be wary of an extra 5-8k men joining a war I had in hand before that.

My Chancellor got me a claim on the entire Duchy of Sicily. Only problem is I just got done with a knockout, dragout fight with Lotharingia and Italy for a county.. gonna have to let cash and levies rebuild a bit before I'm ready to take a stab at a united Byzantine Empire. And get my revenues back from the north coast of Africa where they've been keeping an eye on the counties I Holy Warred away from the one Ibadi Muslim kingdom over there.

Relevant question: Can a Republic have another (lower-level) Republic as a vassal? I should soon have the Kingdom of Sicily, and I'd like to establish another Republic out of the Duchy of Algiers since that land is too far away for me to expand my own trade network into it in any decent time.

[OrcusMcP]

Relevant question: Can a Republic have another (lower-level) Republic as a vassal? I should soon have the Kingdom of Sicily, and I'd like to establish another Republic out of the Duchy of Algiers since that land is too far away for me to expand my own trade network into it in any decent time.

No. A republican vassal of a merchant republic will not be its own merchant republic. It will just be like the republics pre-Republic-DLC.

[tyckspoon]

No. A republican vassal of a merchant republic will not be its own merchant republic. It will just be like the republics pre-Republic-DLC.

Oh, too bad. I'll have to settle for just getting the taxes back out of the family members who built like six new cities in those lands using the thousands of gold they'd built up from taking a share of my profits. Too bad.

[OrcusMcP]

Oh, too bad. I'll have to settle for just getting the taxes back out of the family members who built like six new cities in those lands using the thousands of gold they'd built up from taking a share of my profits. Too bad.

If, for whatever reason, they become independent of you, then they WILL become a new merchant republic. Having family in multiple republics can make succession tricky. And chaotic. And fun.

[Hydranova]

I don't know how, but I'm pretty sure I ended up with two houses in a republic that were both ran by my dynasty. Probably should've gotten a screenshot of that.

[Flickerdart]

Reminds me of the first time I was playing a Republic. I was the Serene Doge of Venice, got the "not invited to a ball" event and immediately murdered the entire Great House that offended me.

Good times.

[Rockphed]

Reminds me of the first time I was playing a Republic. I was the Serene Doge of Venice, got the "not invited to a ball" event and immediately murdered the entire Great House that offended me.

Good times.

Ah, the things that removing the "throw money at until dead" button prevents.

And how does it decide who gets to be the next great house? Does it pick somebody from the court of the Doge who isn't related to the Doge and isn't the leader of a great house already? If so, then you could up the chances by getting lots of vassals who are related to you while doge, let somebody else win, and killing off a great house.

[Flickerdart]

Ah, the things that removing the "throw money at until dead" button prevents.

Actually, I had massive Intrigue and did them in the old fashioned way. There were only two living males of the house so it wasn't too difficult - although bribery did play a small part in getting people to help.

[Grytorm]

Well instead of doing homework I played Crusader Kings and watched Criminal minds today. And I now am King of All Nubia. Not to hard. Got three vassals with my second king. The important ones are my Nephews. My Son will inherit and we are on a seniority system, which will work horribly someday. But not today. The plan is to try and start pushing out the Muslims a little and then hopefully turn on the Abysynians.

Also how can I upgrade a Tribe to a different holding? I have two under my control.

[OrcusMcP]

Also how can I upgrade a Tribe to a different holding? I have two under my control.

You have to build the tribe up until it has a Stone Hillfort, and you should have a decision that will allow you to upgrade the holdings to feudal ones.

[Avilan the Grey]

I definitely think that the reason that most players (that do so) that prefer to start at 1066 do it because it is more fun to play "what if" if you recognize the players. I can't be the only one that is feeling a bit disappointed if William fails, for example?

[Flickerdart]

Most of the players in 867 are pretty recognizable, though. The sons of Lothbrok, Rurik and Dyre, the Makedons, and the Karlings are hardly obscure.