Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I like 1066 Because it's more balanced. Even later in the game, things are more likely to go the historical way. The balances of power are such that the historical route is likely. In the other starts, past the opening decades, the historical happenings are not only unlikely, they're often close to impossible.

[OrcusMcP]

The situations in the main starts lead to different play styles as well:

1066: Large starting powers to contend with no matter where you are, some small powers. Religious landscape settled until crusades start.

867: All medium powers all across the world, with only the ERE and Abbasids as exceptions. Religious landscape in flux.

769: Gigantic powers with small powers on the peripheries. Extremely chaotic religious landscape.

[Avilan the Grey]

Most of the players in 867 are pretty recognizable, though. The sons of Lothbrok, Rurik and Dyre, the Makedons, and the Karlings are hardly obscure.

Actually they are, really. And besides, the earlier you start the less of a "what if" it becomes and more of just "fantasy strategy".
As for religion, not to get into an iRL discussion but I very much prefer the religious landscape of 1066. I just like the high medieval political landscape.

[Flickerdart]

1066: Large starting powers to contend with no matter where you are, some small powers. Religious landscape settled until crusades start.

Hm...you know, I haven't done a 1066 start since Old Gods (I far prefer pagan Eastern Europe) but the conquest of the Suomenusko, Romuva, and Tengri by the various Russian principalities would probably not go as smoothly as it used to.

[OrcusMcP]

Hm...you know, I haven't done a 1066 start since Old Gods (I far prefer pagan Eastern Europe) but the conquest of the Suomenusko, Romuva, and Tengri by the various Russian principalities would probably not go as smoothly as it used to.

Not as it used to, no. You couldn't move on them immediately, you'd probably have to wait until 1200 and then it would be completely smooth sailing.

[Flickerdart]

That doesn't bode too well for when the Golden Horde comes rolling in! I should give it a go, 867 start Russia is way too easy especially as the Norse (I think I was quintuple-emperor by the time they appeared, Russia + Scandinavia + Wendish Empire + Carpathia + HRE, or something to that effect).

[Pokonic]

My current 769 game has been a really fascinating to watch, really.

Started as a ruler-designed ruler of the Bolgars (of Bulgar), one with a focus on forming Vulga Bolgaria through stabbing his way through the steppes. He's done a good job at that so far. Spent about twenty years of constant conquest through the various Suomenusko-practicing people around it. It's been a pretty fun game, really.

A quick, general overview of the world:

-The Premislids inherited Kiev, and now the two-generation old Russian branch is stronger than the main line. Novgorod has land in Finland, now, and is expanding pretty rapidly. The two powerful Russian duchies are separated by seven minor Slavic states, and it seems likely that, at some point, something like the Kievan Rus could become apparent about four hundred years early. This is probably not a good thing for me.

-The Abbasids have lost control of both Persia and Egypt; the Abbasid branch in Persia rebelled from the main line, but was quickly replaced by Persian family with some pretty high decadence (57!). Damascus is also a independent dutchy. The area's probably going to be a complete mess in due time.

-The zunists have survived, and have actually converted two more counties to their funny religion. Given the state of Persia and the insular nature of India, they might actually have a chance at surviving. The Zunbil dynasty is as thriving as any powerful Islamic dukedom and it's headed by a young genius! Shine on you crazy sun worshipers.

-Western Europe is a complete flaming wreck! There are seven Karling states, the Loupings rule both their own independent duchy and Italy, and the most stable kingdom that exists that the moment is pagan Saxony, which holds a Catholic holy site and is probably responsible for the new influx of heresy.

-Iberia is split between three Umayyad states; any chance of a glorious Reconquista, headed by long-suffering Asturias, ended when the current Sultan converted to Catholicism. Presumably, he sent flowers to the king of Asturias when he did this, along with a letter with a smiley face on it. Predictably, this resulted in a good fracturing of the kingdom, which was really close to being able to declare themselves a empire in truth. The situation's too hazy to make out what could happen next.

-The Balkans have actually resisted the general balkanization of the rest of the world, and there is a independent Vlach ruler around, something I see only very rarely. Croatia keeps attempting to take over Venice and failing; it's hilarious.

-There's a moderately powerful west African state that, if it converts to Islam in a generation or two, could have a decent chance of becoming very powerful.

[Flickerdart]

...
Vulgar Bolgaria
...
Kevin Rus
...
The Balkens
...

[Pokonic]

*tears*

Speling ish harsd. How du I fourm Empur?

[Flickerdart]

Whoa, they made 1066 Russians tribal? That's kind of mean. On the plus side, now I can make Novgorod a Republic like it's supposed to be.

Edit: Wait, how do I make a republic? I only have an "adopt feudalism" option.

[Sange]

Whoa, they made 1066 Russians tribal? That's kind of mean. On the plus side, now I can make Novgorod a Republic like it's supposed to be.

Edit: Wait, how do I make a republic? I only have an "adopt feudalism" option.

Your capital needs to be coastal.

[Flickerdart]

I moved my capital and it still didn't work! Unless Ladoga doesn't count as coastal for some preposterous reason.

[Hydranova]

For Republics, your capital has to have a level 4 Market Village.

[Avilan the Grey]

Hmmm... maybe I'll spend my time trying to put my relatives on as many thrones as possible...

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

In Vanilla Lake Ladoga isn't coastal, I think. You have to have the little port sprites sticking out of your province.

[Flickerdart]

Okay, so I made the republic, now it's Finland, whatever. The problem is that Gotland is around and taking over trade in the Baltic. What are my options here?

Actually, what are the good strategies for republics and trade and all that jazz? I plopped down some trade posts near my capital and they're raking in 11 ducats each when they're not raided. Saving up money hasn't worked so well though - there are always wars with the pagans, so mercenaries eat my money, and due to seniority succession it's really hard to keep good rulers. I had a good thing going with father to son but accidentally sent my son out of court when I married him to a duchess and now I have 50 year olds who die every few years.

Also, some of my patricians have no trade posts and seem to not want to create any, which is kind of weird.

[OrcusMcP]

Actually, what are the good strategies for republics and trade and all that jazz? I plopped down some trade posts near my capital and they're raking in 11 ducats each when they're not raided. Saving up money hasn't worked so well though - there are always wars with the pagans, so mercenaries eat my money, and due to seniority succession it's really hard to keep good rulers. I had a good thing going with father to son but accidentally sent my son out of court when I married him to a duchess and now I have 50 year olds who die every few years.

Also, some of my patricians have no trade posts and seem to not want to create any, which is kind of weird.

There's an honorary title you can give kids called "designated heir" that will override the seniority.

Upgrade your family palace, and upgrade Trade Practices.

Republics are always super vulnerable in the early years since they're vulnerable and brittle.

As to the other patricians, upgrading trade practices will help them too.

[Artanis]

Okay, so I made the republic, now it's Finland, whatever. The problem is that Gotland is around and taking over trade in the Baltic. What are my options here?

Go to war and seize their trade posts.

[tyckspoon]

Okay, so I made the republic, now it's Finland, whatever. The problem is that Gotland is around and taking over trade in the Baltic. What are my options here?

Actually, what are the good strategies for republics and trade and all that jazz? I plopped down some trade posts near my capital and they're raking in 11 ducats each when they're not raided. Saving up money hasn't worked so well though - there are always wars with the pagans, so mercenaries eat my money, and due to seniority succession it's really hard to keep good rulers. I had a good thing going with father to son but accidentally sent my son out of court when I married him to a duchess and now I have 50 year olds who die every few years.

Also, some of my patricians have no trade posts and seem to not want to create any, which is kind of weird.

Your patricians might not be able to afford trade posts if you've already snagged the closest spots to your capital- trade post cost is affected by distance from your Republic's territory and the opinion of the ruler of the land you want to build the post in. Trying to put a post a few provinces away on a port belonging to a dude who hates your ass will add several hundred gold to the cost.

Somebody already mentioned the Designated Heir title, but yeah. That's what you're supposed to use as a Republic. Find the dynasty member you want to follow you and just label him as Heir (one of the fun things about this is if you manage to gather other titles, Designated Heir overrides the succession method those titles would normally use as well.)

If the competing Trade Republic is independent, you can declare war on them directly with 'Seize (County name) Trade Post' as the CB. If you win, it'll transfer control of the trade post from them to you. The really *wonderful* thing about this is it disregards the trade post limit, so you can expand beyond the limits of your family/demesne/Trade Practices tech. Otherwise, I think you have to try and arrange an Embargo war, which can be a pretty dicey and very expensive proposition if they're a vassal of a powerful nation (to Embargo, find a ruler who has a rival trade post on his territory. There will be a diplo option to ask to Embargo, in which you'll try to bribe him to declare war against the other republic and the country that holds it as a vassal.)

[Flickerdart]

Somebody already mentioned the Designated Heir title, but yeah. That's what you're supposed to use as a Republic. Find the dynasty member you want to follow you and just label him as Heir (one of the fun things about this is if you manage to gather other titles, Designated Heir overrides the succession method those titles would normally use as well.)

I did that! But it turns out that a character in another court loses all honorary titles. I'm stuck with a bunch of old guys and can't even manage to retain any adult men in my court.

If the competing Trade Republic is independent, you can declare war on them directly with 'Seize (County name) Trade Post' as the CB. If you win, it'll transfer control of the trade post from them to you. The really *wonderful* thing about this is it disregards the trade post limit, so you can expand beyond the limits of your family/demesne/Trade Practices tech. Otherwise, I think you have to try and arrange an Embargo war, which can be a pretty dicey and very expensive proposition if they're a vassal of a powerful nation (to Embargo, find a ruler who has a rival trade post on his territory. There will be a diplo option to ask to Embargo, in which you'll try to bribe him to declare war against the other republic and the country that holds it as a vassal.)

Sadly, Gotland is a vassal of Sweden.

[Artanis]

I did that! But it turns out that a character in another court loses all honorary titles. I'm stuck with a bunch of old guys and can't even manage to retain any adult men in my court.

So murder his wife and get him to come back.

[Flickerdart]

So murder his wife and get him to come back.

I tried that, but it's difficult to kill a duchess in a foreign court with another culture and religion. At least my dynasty ended up with it.\

Actually, that particular son is a funny story. He was a twin, so I gave one to my wife to raise and took the other one. That one came out amazing - 17 Martial, 18 Stewardship, above 10 in everything else, and good traits. The one I raised had crap stats, became gay, and then died in the first battle of a war that happened.

[tyckspoon]

Sadly, Gotland is a vassal of Sweden.

Ah, well. Keep an eye out for them to try and go independent if Sweden gets into a stability problem - republics hate being vassals of feudal lords, and the AI is kind of bad at vassal relations anyway. That's how I got three or four posts off of Genoa during my current game; they went independent along with half the rest of northern Italy, and I savaged them repeatedly for some posts that were well placed to extend my network while they were alone. And then Italy reconquered them, installed a feudal lord, and obliterated their existence as a rival Republic.

[Avilan the Grey]

I struggled with Gotland for four generations, until I did in fact grant them independence. Wasn't worth constantly being intrigued against by an idiot republic. Then when I got rich enough to fight them (as all republics they have more money than god and can hire HUGE mercenary armies) I retook them and gave Gotland to a duke. Instant Feudal conversion and no more Gotland republic.

Muahahahahah!

[Grif]

In preparation for replaying CK2, what DLC should I get?

I have everything up to TOG and Sons of Abraham. Is there any must-get DLC that comes after?

[Malistrae]

In preparation for replaying CK2, what DLC should I get?

I have everything up to TOG and Sons of Abraham. Is there any must-get DLC that comes after?

Way of Life is definetly a must in my opinion, since it makes scheming much easier. Rajas of India is not bad, especially if you are bored of the already available cultures. Charlemagne is also good if you want longer games or more pagans.

[OrcusMcP]

In preparation for replaying CK2, what DLC should I get?

I have everything up to TOG and Sons of Abraham. Is there any must-get DLC that comes after?

I would say Way of Life is the only must-get.

[Grif]

Way of Life is definetly a must in my opinion, since it makes scheming much easier. Rajas of India is not bad, especially if you are bored of the already available cultures. Charlemagne is also good if you want longer games or more pagans.

Probably won't get Rajahs. Not very interested in the Indian subcon, atm.

I would say Way of Life is the only must-get.

How about Charlie? Does it add anything?

[OrcusMcP]

How about Charlie? Does it add anything?

It lets you make customs kingdoms/empires and pushes the start date back. It's really good if you want to play as one of the main powers of the time, as they added a bunch of events to Charlemagne himself, the ERE, the Umayyads, etc.

I like Charlemagne, but it's not a must-get.

[Grif]

It lets you make customs kingdoms/empires and pushes the start date back. It's really good if you want to play as one of the main powers of the time, as they added a bunch of events to Charlemagne himself, the ERE, the Umayyads, etc.

I like Charlemagne, but it's not a must-get.

I'm not interested in the Charlie start-date, but making custom kingdoms? Sold. (I usually play 1066. I prefer the politics there.)