The Books We're Reading, Canto II

[dehro]

If we permit the comic medium in this thread: just finished off Fist of the North Star.
The ridiculous hypermasculine manliness of this series is overwhelming.

the author's nome de plume is Buronson, after Charles Bronson.. dead give-away right there, don't you think?
if you liked its graphic style, try Keiji (hana no keiji).. even more manly, but set in the sengoku era.

[BWR]

the author's nome de plume is Buronson, after Charles Bronson.. dead give-away right there, don't you think?
if you liked its graphic style, try Keiji (hana no keiji).. even more manly, but set in the sengoku era.

I'm going to read the FotNS spin-offs first. More Toki is always good.
I wonder if testosterone levels actually increase after reading this.

[warty goblin]

Heresy!! I loved Elrond's Council.

Elrond's Council is totally excellent. Mind, I don't think there's any part of The Fellowship of the Ring that isn't excellent. I've even come around to liking Tom Bombadil.

Oddly enough, this reminds me of some scenes from Tolkien, in that there are vistas and moods only lightly penciled in--sometimes just a careful stroke or two--which the reader is expected to develop in the mind.

I can't help wondering if authors from older generations, writing for audiences not yet zombified by television, had a greater trust in their readers' ability to imagine scenes for themselves. It almost feels like a lost art these days.

You know it's funny that you mention a Tolkien-Brackett comparison, because I finished Martian Quest the other night, and was struck by a few. I also wanted to blather a bit about the collection, and this is as good a lens as any. There's the willingness to let the reader's mind fill in the blanks, and not to get caught up in the unnecessary details of action. The main moral action for both authors is in whether a character has the strength of character to sacrifice what is necessary to do what they know is right. And both tend to focus on individuals of no particular structural power in the universe who are forced into situations of great personal or global importance by the inscrutable ways of the universe. There's a sense of people being defined within their physical environment, and of inner life as dictated by the external in both of them as well, which I very much enjoy. I tend to think of it as a sort of rural outlook; where one's thoughts are to a large extent dictated by the impositions of the natural surroundings, instead of social or mental obstacles. There's also a definite skepticism of industrialization in both, particularly the later Brackett stories.

On the other hand I don't think there's any risk of confusing the two in a hurry. Tolkien of course writes in a mostly mythic style, while Brackett is much more down to earth. Her protagonists tend to be outsiders, not people who have temporarily been displaced from their natural position, but people who's natural position is on the outside of society. Often because they are really not particularly nice people; the protagonist of The Citadel of Lost Ships is a pirate who describes the industrial society he preys upon as comfortable cages for sheep, but he can't bleat in tune and so is a wolf. Brackett's most famous character Eric John Stark describes himself as a wolfshead; a man without allegiance and who's original name in the aboriginal language of Mercury name means 'man without a tribe.'* They're about as far from a Tolkienian hero as you can get in other words; and a lot of them are pretty close to anti-hero status. Or would be if they spent time being miserable and brooding, but Brackett's protagonists are too relentlessly active for anything like that. Brood for five minutes in Brackett's universe and you'll get your face killed right off.

One of the interesting, and at first almost unsettling, things about Brackett's stories is her habit of simply ending them in the middle of the action. Often the question of interest is whether some character - not necessarily the protagonist - will make the right choice. Once that is cleared up, the story simply ends. Maybe the hero lives, maybe not, maybe they fail completely, but the important matter has been resolved. The right choice in Brackett being almost entirely defined as a muscular respect for other people's freedom to live according to their own choices. This, the callous trampling and consumption of smaller cultures, is the root of her heroes' opposition to industrialization. The Citadel of Lost Ships, the last story in the collection and by far the best, is entirely focused on the nearly helpless rage of being churned up and destroyed by the consumptive homogenization of industrial society**. It doesn't even necessarily argue that industrialization is a bad thing, but it is a destructive thing, and a person and society can legitimately choose to live outside of it.

Anyway, I've been rambling for a while, but my final opinion is that the best stories in Martian Quest are the equal of any twentieth century short science fiction that I've read, and superior to a lot of stuff I've seen praised far more vigorously. There's a lot of fine stories, and a couple that I don't particularly like, but The Citadel of Lost Ships, Outpost on Io, No Man's Land in Space, Cube in Space and a few others are extremely strong; more thoughtful and complex than one would guess, but nevertheless relentlessly paced and a real delight to read. It's goddamn shameful that her work is so devilishly hard to find in print. I'm looking forwards to the next collection, Lorelei of the Red Mist, after I'm done with Moby Dick.


*Stark is also essentially raceless; having been burned so black by the sun during his childhood on Mercury that his original ethnicity can't be determined.

**If you've had the misfortune of reading Michael Moorcock's Epic Pooh, it won't be surprising that in the introduction he describes Brackett as a writer with whose politics he disagrees. The source for this disagreement is extremely clear in Brackett's last major work; The Book of Skaith, in which the antagonists of the story are described as good men nevertheless guilty of enslaving half a planet for the sake of feeding the starving. The morality of Brackett's stories often gets a little complicated if you slow down to think about it, in between encounters with man-eating mutant fishmen.

[BWR]

Vonnegut's "The sirens of Titan", interspersed with "Fist of the Blue Sky"

[warty goblin]

Working my way through Moby Dick, which is even better than I remembered it. Oh the joy of sentences that end when they're good and ready to, but not a moment before. Gives me an excuse to listen to Rollin' Down to Old Maui a lot as well, not that I've ever needed an excuse for lustily singing along to Stan Rogers.

Also started my long delayed A Poem A Night reading project, which works pretty much like it says on the tin. Unfortunately my present anthology begins with Whitman, who I dislike less than I remembered, but still really do not like very much. Sort of the poetic equivalent of a guy hammering on a pot with a spoon; lots of noise, very little beauty, but probably good preparation for even more modern and less lyric poets to come. Fortunately Emily Dickinson is next, and I find her work completely marvelous. There's sort of a minutely observed morbidity about her that very much works for me.

[Sliver]

I'm going to start reading Robin Hobb's The Farseer Trilogy, but I wanted to hear an opinion regarding the next in the series. How does the Liveship Traders Trilogy compare to the rest of the series? I've read The Farseer Trilogy years ago, but stopped reading afterwards because I generally don't like it when a series moves away from the main characters that I already grew attached to, and never got to reading The Tawny Man Trilogy...

I want to read both the Farseer again and the Tawny Man, but is the Liveship trilogy as good and worth it, or should I skip it?

[BWR]

I'm going to start reading Robin Hobb's The Farseer Trilogy, but I wanted to hear an opinion regarding the next in the series. How does the Liveship Traders Trilogy compare to the rest of the series? I've read The Farseer Trilogy years ago, but stopped reading afterwards because I generally don't like it when a series moves away from the main characters that I already grew attached to, and never got to reading The Tawny Man Trilogy...

I want to read both the Farseer again and the Tawny Man, but is the Liveship trilogy as good and worth it, or should I skip it?

I didn't like the Liveship Traders much. Interesting enough concept but I couldn't stand any of the characters. I can usually read through books where I'm not particularly fond of the characters but when they actively annoy you and the story and language isn't enough to keep you interested, there isn't much point in reading it. TBH, I've forgotten most of the details so I can't recall anything specific about what I didn't like.

[Sliver]

Do you think the Liveship trilogy is required when going into the Tawny Man?

[Feytalist]

Do you think the Liveship trilogy is required when going into the Tawny Man?

I haven't personally read it, but I've heard that it's a fairly self-contained story, with only references to the previous works that you aren't required to get, but make the story more rounded out.

I will add that I also did not enjoy the Liveship books much. Like BWR said, interesting concept but the characters were largely unlikable and the story was much too drawn out and bogged down with inconsequentials.



I, meanwhile, am reading (all together now) Malazan! Book seven, Reaper's Gale. Nothing spectacularly new in this one, a comfortable bunch of old characters, but even from a third of the way in, it's clearly amping up for a huge climax. I know many people have complained about the power disparity between individuals in these books, but they're all kept "human" enough in personality that it's never been an issue for me before. Especially since the potential HSQ is so high

I also amused myself with a reread of some favourite Philip K. Dick stories this past month or so. I still have a soft spot for Adjusted Team.

[Eldan]

For the most part, it is only tangentially connected. Most characters don't cross over, with two very noteable exceptions. However, you should be able to follow along with the Tawny Man without having read the Liveship traders.

I actually quite liked the Liveship traders. It goes a bit more into various secrets, at the end, that were only hinted at in the Assassin. The characters are interesting too, I thought.

[Corlindale]

I'm briefly branching out from fiction right now, reading Liza Picard's guide to Victorian London. After reading umpteen bajillion novels set there, it's really nice to get some actual history of the place. Doesn't hurt that Liza is a really great writer who always spices up the narrative with interesting anecdotes or her own sarcastic comments and observations. Strongly recommended if you have any interest in the area and period.

I'm also reading Mein Kampf, which is a real slog to get through. Historically interesting, of course, but Hitler's style is still really annoying (and unsurprisingly he has a 'quite high' opinion of himself). I'm mainly reading it because my political philosophy students wanted to learn something about Nazism.

[Lord Loss]

Currently working my way through Kobo Abe's The Woman in the Dunes. I've read the majority of his later works, it's interesting to see many of the themes and ideas that would be further developed in later works crop up in this novel. For instance, the oftentimes nonsensical behavior of authority figures and social institutions that characterize works like Secret Rendezvous and Kangaroo notebook here take the form of the uncooperative villagers holding the protagonist captive. So far I'm actually finding a lot of parallels between The Woman in the Dunes and Secret Rendezvous - the former feels like a far more tame version of the latter.

[turkishproverb]

Just finished Comix: A History of Comics in America, working on Notes of a Feminist Therapist.

[dehro]

What is it with women on okcupid and Murakami? It seems most women list him as a favourite read...
I am not going to read his books for the sake of conversation with women, but I admit I am somewhat curious about the author now... Is he any good and what does he write about?

[Lord Loss]

What is it with women on okcupid and Murakami? It seems most women list him as a favourite read...
I am not going to read his books for the sake of conversation with women, but I admit I am somewhat curious about the author now... Is he any good and what does he write about?

I'm on mobile right now, so I won't go into too much detail, but Murakami is one of my favorite authors. His works are surrealist in nature; he borrows heavily from Abe and can in some ways be compared to Kafka. His works are primarily focused around young or middle aged narrators and their encounters with mysterious forces and/or mysterious women. He's got his flaws; his writing tends to drag on, and he provides far more detail regarding the mundane than perhaps he should. He creates atmosphere masterfully, and carefully weaves together absurdity and allusion to create powerful stories that are greater than the sum of their parts. I frequently hear people compare him to David Mitchell, but I've never seen the resemblence myself. If you'd like to give him a whirl, I suggest Norwegian Wood or The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle.

[Feytalist]

Put down Reaper's Gale momentarily to start on E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros. Heard many good things about it over the years, but never tried it. I'm doing so now.

[BWR]

start on E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros. Heard many good things about it over the years, but never tried it. I'm doing so now.

That's a good one. It's a bit dated in language and subject matter and presentation by today's standards but it's a very fascinating book. It has a view of heroes and adventure that is quite at odds with modern sensibilities in some respects. I really should finish "Mistress of Mistresses" one of these days. I started it and had one of those experiences where even if you are wide awake your mind wanders and you read the same couple of pages over and over. Maybe once I'm done with the Origin of Species.

[LibraryOgre]

Having finished Storm of Swords, and my wife having requested I not read Feast of Crows until the series catches up (GRAAAAAARRRR), I'm reading "Darkwell" by Douglas Niles until I find something to pique my interest again.

[Lethologica]

Having finished Storm of Swords, and my wife having requested I not read Feast of Crows until the series catches up (GRAAAAAARRRR), I'm reading "Darkwell" by Douglas Niles until I find something to pique my interest again.

This is complicated by the fact that the show arranges events differently from the books, such that some timelines are already in ADWD while others only finished ASOS at the end of last season. So in one sense it's already caught up and then some, but you might have to wait for 2 seasons for the show to be entirely up to speed.

[LibraryOgre]

This is complicated by the fact that the show arranges events differently from the books, such that some timelines are already in ADWD while others only finished ASOS at the end of last season. So in one sense it's already caught up and then some, but you might have to wait for 2 seasons for the show to be entirely up to speed.

I know. It's frustrating.

[GloatingSwine]

I didn't like the Liveship Traders much. Interesting enough concept but I couldn't stand any of the characters. I can usually read through books where I'm not particularly fond of the characters but when they actively annoy you and the story and language isn't enough to keep you interested, there isn't much point in reading it. TBH, I've forgotten most of the details so I can't recall anything specific about what I didn't like.

I read the first one not too long ago.

It felt like I'd read the first third of four different stories, and none of them had really made much progress, nor did any of them compel me towards reading the rest because the viewpoint shifted too often to form an attachment to any of the characters, especially when few to none of them were going anywhere interesting in their lives.

Pretty much everyone I've talked to who has read it has said a similar thing, I haven't spoken to anyone who genuinely likes Liveship Traders.

[Palanan]

I'm reading The Evil Hours, a book on PTSD by a former Marine and war correspondent.

It's interesting, complex, literate and wide-roaming, although sometimes passages can go from profound to pompous and back again over just a few sentences. I'm not entirely convinced by some of his notions--such as the idea that the Odyssey is based on the alienated wanderings of PTSD survivors--but the book is intensively researched and often deeply thoughtful.

It's not a light read, though, and I'm taking it a chapter at a time. In between, I tried reading Mumbai Noir, a collection of stories based in different areas in Mumbai; but they were incredibly depressing and the book is now back at the library.

So, I'm going through Men of Cajamarca once again, which remains excellent and insightful about both individuals and societies in early sixteenth-century Spain and Peru.

[Eurus]

Just finished Last Argument of Kings. It was... yeeesh. Possibly one of my new favorite fantasy series, but a brutal read. I feel betrayed, in a good way. >_>

[BWR]

Fist of the Blue Sky, a prequel to Fist of the North Star, was good. Better art, better story (for limited values of story), generally better drama and women who weren't quite as useless as those in FotNS. The biggest problem I had was that it felt the need to surpass FotNS, making Kenshiro the elder even more awesome than Ken the younger. Even more supernatural stuff. It tried too hard to basically have all the same characters from FotNS once again. If not for the fact that FotNS was the first and in many ways a purer vision of the story it wished to tell, I think I would have liked this one better. There was actually a real sense of a setting apart from 'generic Max Max desert', a sense of purpose that eventually grew out of the start. And ridiculous supermen and lots of manly tears. It was good, and it's probably better to ignore FotNS when considering this one (or vice versa).

Yesterday and this morning I read Medaka Box. Binge read all 192 chapters of it. Apart from FotNS I never could get into shounen manga/anime. I tried. Dragonball, Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail - they all bored me to tears. MB is really just another superpower school martial arts shounen story when you look at it. The screaming, the overly long fights, the silly combat skills, the absurdly drawn-out stories. This one worked. Maybe because of its awareness of what it was and how it played with the genre. It wasn't the art, and when you think about it the characters were almost all pretty standard fare, the weird powers, the constant increasing of baddie power levels and the focus on friendship and never giving up aren't exactly new,, but it just worked. Somehow it worked.

[comicshorse]

I've just finished Conn Iggulden 'The Gates of Rome'. Historical fiction set around the life of Julius Caesar and had the same problem I developed with later books in his 'Conqueror' series. In that while I quite liked his writing I found most of the main characters to be utterly loathsome even when I get the impression the author expects you to like them

[Salbazier]

American Gods, bought in a sale. The book is not in the good condition but eh.

[Feytalist]

American Gods, bought in a sale. The book is not in the good condition but eh.

Second-hand books should be slightly battered.

Shows that it was enjoyed

[Salbazier]

Second-hand books should be slightly battered.

Shows that it was enjoyed

Actually it's not second-hand book but store leftover stock. My usual bookstore tend to sale stuffs like that at discount price. If anything it shows that those books are not particularly popular :(.

[LibraryOgre]

So, been listening to Guardians of the West while driving these last few days, and I have started straight-up yelling at the book.

Garion is an idiot. Like, massively stupid to the point of a question his ability to breathe. I could understand a bit of naivete earlier in the series, but he seems to have trouble recognizing his wife of EIGHT YEARS wanting to sleep with him. Both are in their mid-20s, and he's completely incapable of even considering it.

[dehro]

he's lived a sheltered life.. but more importantly, he's an Arend