Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

[Kakuro]

Was it ever stated that Belkar lost his daggers?. He might just not be using them so he can focus on climbing?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Was it ever stated that Belkar lost his daggers?. He might just not be using them so he can focus on climbing?

In the current page (#1015), Belkar says he needs to go pick them up

GW

[St Fan]

A question for the Playground: Is there a way for a Ranger to gain a 2nd animal companion? There might be a way that Bloodfeast's transformed state allows him to be one if it is possible.

The Beastmaster prestige class allows for a second animal companion at 4th level. Considering how un-optimized Belkar is, though, prestige classes are unlikely.

[Quartz]

I'd say just make it a ring of feather fall.

For Feather Fall specifically, it could be a Ring of Air Elemental Command, but we don't know that that the item is even a ring. There are other possibilities, especially if you think laterally. Immovable Rod, anyone? Potion of Levitations or Fly, Wings of Flying, a weapon with the power of levitation, flight, or Feather Fall, etc. Right now we simply don't know.

We can rule out the Cloak of the Bat as it's daylight, and the figurines of power as he'd still be using them. Likewise the Broom of Flying.

[Peelee]

For Feather Fall specifically, it could be a Ring of Air Elemental Command, but we don't know that that the item is even a ring. There are other possibilities, especially if you think laterally. Immovable Rod, anyone? Potion of Levitations or Fly, Wings of Flying, a weapon with the power of levitation, flight, or Feather Fall, etc. Right now we simply don't know.

Can't be anything of Fly, since he would have logically flown back into the building.

[Hecuba]

For Feather Fall specifically, it could be a Ring of Air Elemental Command, but we don't know that that the item is even a ring. There are other possibilities, especially if you think laterally. Immovable Rod, anyone? Potion of Levitations or Fly, Wings of Flying, a weapon with the power of levitation, flight, or Feather Fall, etc. Right now we simply don't know.

He does call or feather fall explicitly in the flashback, so in the interest of taking the narrative at its word we probably shouldn't get too lateral.

Also, I'd generally side on a bit a skepticism regarding custom weapon a abilities or resorted items: they aren't unreasonable given what we've seen, but they significantly widen the scope of inquiry. I think they deserve the same treatment as things from sources we have not they identified as being in play (though clearly not the same level of scepticism as homebrew or house rules).

[Reboot]

I'd say just make it a ring of feather fall. They are common minor magical rings, and cheap as magic items go. That's unless you have evidence that Belkar already has a second ring. – Aha, Flame of Anor says the same.

It doesn't fit that well though - it kicks in per the spell after 5 feet, and feather fall expires after (6 seconds times level), so he would probably have reached terminal velocity again before he landed. And while some people are saying "well, it doesn't have charges, it could just keep activating" in the main thread... that would mean he'd still be falling, surely. Given that he isn't (further) injured, I'd say Rich has reversed the unspecified item's effect so that it only kicks in when you're X feet from impact - in the way skydivers don't open their parachutes the split-second the plane is safely out of the way, they wait until they're much closer to the ground - rather than "having been falling for X feet".

[MesiDoomstalker]

It doesn't fit that well though - it kicks in per the spell after 5 feet, and feather fall expires after (6 seconds times level), so he would probably have reached terminal velocity again before he landed. And while some people are saying "well, it doesn't have charges, it could just keep activating" in the main thread... that would mean he'd still be falling, surely. Given that he isn't (further) injured, I'd say Rich has reversed the unspecified item's effect so that it only kicks in when you're X feet from impact - in the way skydivers don't open their parachutes the split-second the plane is safely out of the way, they wait until they're much closer to the ground - rather than "having been falling for X feet".

If thats the case, then Belkar took 0 Falling Damage, since Feather Fall instantly brings your descent to a safe 60-ft per round. My counter argument is if he fell so far that he went through the entire Feather Fall Duration and then reach terminal velocity again and then have time to climb all the way back up would be a long fall and a ridiculously long climb back up. We don't know the exact amount of time between Belkar's fall and the start of the Godsmoot, but I doubt it was terribly long. The fall shouldn't be much more than a few hundred feet, at most, and Belkar would need a high climb modifier to get back up as quickly as he did.

[EmperorSarda]

That presumes he fell all the way to the base of the mountain. He could have fallen to a lower slope only.

[Reboot]

Well, his last appearance in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0996.html was a full-on Wile E. Coyote "nothing between him and the base of the valley" shot. And his momentum in the previous panel implied that, if he wasn't falling straight down, he was heading for the far side (where he'd have to climb down before he could go up again).

[Bird]

I agree that it looked like he was heading for the bottom--but wind could have blown him back towards the near side after his feather fall activated. Also, based on the swirly trail his locket was leaving, he seemed to be having an erratic descent.

[Quartz]

Well, his last appearance in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0996.html was a full-on Wile E. Coyote "nothing between him and the base of the valley" shot. And his momentum in the previous panel implied that, if he wasn't falling straight down, he was heading for the far side (where he'd have to climb down before he could go up again).

Speaking of that strip, looking at Belkar's face, he appears to have suffered no extra damage from the fall.

[b_jonas]

It doesn't fit that well though - it kicks in per the spell after 5 feet, and feather fall expires after (6 seconds times level), so he would probably have reached terminal velocity again before he landed. And while some people are saying "well, it doesn't have charges, it could just keep activating" in the main thread... that would mean he'd still be falling, surely. Given that he isn't (further) injured, I'd say Rich has reversed the unspecified item's effect so that it only kicks in when you're X feet from impact - in the way skydivers don't open their parachutes the split-second the plane is safely out of the way, they wait until they're much closer to the ground - rather than "having been falling for X feet".

This time, Belkar wasn't held or paralyzed or under a command. He could just remove the ring and then put it on later when he's closer to the ground.

[halfeye]

If thats the case, then Belkar took 0 Falling Damage, since Feather Fall instantly brings your descent to a safe 60-ft per round. My counter argument is if he fell so far that he went through the entire Feather Fall Duration and then reach terminal velocity again and then have time to climb all the way back up would be a long fall and a ridiculously long climb back up. We don't know the exact amount of time between Belkar's fall and the start of the Godsmoot, but I doubt it was terribly long. The fall shouldn't be much more than a few hundred feet, at most, and Belkar would need a high climb modifier to get back up as quickly as he did.

He had that ring of jumping, if that's an "any number of times per day" item, then he could have got back up a very long way in a fairly short time.

[Ephemera]

Well, his last appearance in was a full-on Wile E. Coyote "nothing between him and the base of the valley" shot. And his momentum in the previous panel implied that, if he wasn't falling straight down, he was heading for the far side (where he'd have to climb down before he could go up again).

I think this depends a little on what you think a feather fall effect does to lateral momentum, which isn't specified. If it affects only gravity, then he could easily have traveled a long, long way. If it slows your total momentum, then he shouldn't have fallen very far.

There's may be something a little wonky with the physics, though--he bounces off the roof several times, which puts a cap on exactly how fast he could have been thrown (hey, if we assume that stickworld gravity is more or less earth normal, someone less lazy than I could calculate a value based on an estimate of Belkar's height and the angle of the roof!), and unless Belkar is extremely bouncy, I'm pretty sure that hitting the roof should leave him with less, not more, lateral momentum. The mountain right below the temple doesn't look all that steep, so it doesn't seem like he should have cleared enough mountain to be looking straight down. This could be explained by the feather fall effect, or the shot of Belkar over the mountain might not be a view from straight above.

It's kind of a moot point, though, because I don't think we ever got a look at enough of the mountain to say anything about how far out he'd have to travel to fall how far.

[Peelee]

He had that ring of jumping, if that's an "any number of times per day" item, then he could have got back up a very long way in a fairly short time.

Though he in all likelihood so has it, there is no evidence of such.

[rodneyAnonymous]

...in the way skydivers don't open their parachutes the split-second the plane is safely out of the way, they wait until they're much closer to the ground - rather than "having been falling for X feet".

The skydiver would be safe, but the fall would take a lot longer, and it probably wouldn't be as much fun.

[Peelee]

The skydiver would be safe, but the fall would take a lot longer, and it probably wouldn't be as much fun.

Depends on your definition of fun. They'd get to enjoy the view a lot longer.

[zimmerwald1915]

Depends on your definition of fun. They'd get to enjoy the view a lot longer.

They'd also be rather at the mercy of the wind. Might end up far outside the landing zone, on top of who knows what.

[littlebum2002]

It doesn't fit that well though - it kicks in per the spell after 5 feet, and feather fall expires after (6 seconds times level), so he would probably have reached terminal velocity again before he landed. And while some people are saying "well, it doesn't have charges, it could just keep activating" in the main thread... that would mean he'd still be falling, surely. Given that he isn't (further) injured, I'd say Rich has reversed the unspecified item's effect so that it only kicks in when you're X feet from impact - in the way skydivers don't open their parachutes the split-second the plane is safely out of the way, they wait until they're much closer to the ground - rather than "having been falling for X feet".

That presumes he fell all the way to the base of the mountain. He could have fallen to a lower slope only.

I agree that it looked like he was heading for the bottom--but wind could have blown him back towards the near side after his feather fall activated. Also, based on the swirly trail his locket was leaving, he seemed to be having an erratic descent.

If you look at the slope of the mountain, it isn't very steep. It's very doubtful that someone could get thrown off the top with enough lateral force to skip the entire mountain going down. That would only be possible on a cliff. So I think it's safe to say Belkar landed some point not too far down the mountain.

[Kurald Galain]

If you look at the slope of the mountain, it isn't very steep. It's very doubtful that someone could get thrown off the top with enough lateral force to skip the entire mountain going down. That would only be possible on a cliff. So I think it's safe to say Belkar landed some point not too far down the mountain.

Well he did manage to get back up in just a couple of minutes. Not a whole lot of in-comic time has passed since comic 996.

[unbeliever536]

Not to just jump in out of no where with this, but has anyone ever compiled a progression for the Order? Something like, "at the start of DCF, we know they had approximately these stats, and here's how they stand at the end of each book".

I ask strictly because #477 prohibits Belkar from having more than ten levels of Ranger at the end of W&XP (else he would have a 6th attack). Although, now that I look at it, that does mean he has at least two levels of Barbarian. (If we're allowed to assume for simplicity that no hidden multiclassing is happening? Can we call that assumption reasonable?)

[Peelee]

They'd also be rather at the mercy of the wind. Might end up far outside the landing zone, on top of who knows what.

Wheeeeeeee!

[Steven]

Wheeeeeeee!

Ahhh! How did I end up over the acid breathing shark tank?!?

[Flickerdart]

Ahhh! How did I end up over the acid breathing shark tank?!?

Why would a tank need to breathe anything, never mind acid?

[Jasdoif]

Why would a tank need to breathe anything, never mind acid?

Because it's a bioengineered tank, made out of acid breathing sharks. You know, to allow amphibious assaults in the absence of alkalinity.

[dps]

Not to just jump in out of no where with this, but has anyone ever compiled a progression for the Order? Something like, "at the start of DCF, we know they had approximately these stats, and here's how they stand at the end of each book".

There's a chart something like that in the first post in this thread.

I ask strictly because #477 prohibits Belkar from having more than ten levels of Ranger at the end of W&XP (else he would have a 6th attack). Although, now that I look at it, that does mean he has at least two levels of Barbarian. (If we're allowed to assume for simplicity that no hidden multiclassing is happening? Can we call that assumption reasonable?)

I'm not 100% convinced that we can say with confidence that 5 "stab!"s show can be directly equated to 5 attacks. But I do agree that we probably should assume that no hidden multiclassing is taking place.

[unbeliever536]

The chart in the OP is nice, but it only shows when the characters leveled, without any other information. (Not that it should be otherwise). There's also little effort to track maximum stats across time.

As far as the Five "stab" effects...what else would they indicate?

[Chronos]

Quoth Hecuba:

He does call or feather fall explicitly in the flashback, so in the interest of taking the narrative at its word we probably shouldn't get too lateral.

On the other hand, when he went shopping at the female artificer's, he asked for an item to boost saving throws and instead got an item of Protection from Evil. In the same way, he could have asked the male artificer for an item of Feather Fall, and gotten a response of "Here's an item of Fly; that's even better".

That said, I don't mind just listing it as "Ring of Feather Falling".

[b_jonas]

So the question #1017 (the latest comic) raises is: how could the vampire Durkon get so many uses of the obscure spell that causes newly created vampires to awake without three refreshing days in a coffin. Did Malack put so many intsances of the spell into the staff? Or did vampire Durkon learn this spell, and prepared it many times the same day? Did instead some clerics just happen to have prepared the spell for the godsmoot?

Incidentally, is this spell listed somewhere on the first page, whether in Durkon's or Malack's entry?