Squall vs Tidus

[DiscipleofBob]

You missed that both can show up with their respective limit breaks ready to go.

No, Squall cannot start with a limit break. He needs to get to low health or cast Aura, the latter of which would use up his turn.

Also remember that even if Caladbolg doesn't have First Strike equipped, Tidus can freely switch between weapons and armor as needed. He can start with a weapon with First Strike and switch to Caladbolg.

[Mato]

No, Squall cannot start with a limit break. He needs to get to low health or cast Aura, the latter of which would use up his turn.

Technically, the OP (me) left if vague on how combat started to hear thoughts on all the matters that could come up. Such as being reminded that running around with low HP in FF8 to spam limit breaks is a perfectly valid strategy.

But this only creates one win scenario in favorable odds, there is still much to consider.

[Angelalex242]

Squall can inflict VIT 0 on Tidus with a single spell...Meltdown. Normally he'd do that by summoning Doomtrain, but if summoning's banned, then he can't. Spell is the next best thing. And Ribbon won't save Tidus from meltdown either. Again, if it works on Omega Weapon, ribbon won't block it either.

[McNum]

Squall can inflict VIT 0 on Tidus with a single spell...Meltdown. Normally he'd do that by summoning Doomtrain, but if summoning's banned, then he can't. Spell is the next best thing. And Ribbon won't save Tidus from meltdown either. Again, if it works on Omega Weapon, ribbon won't block it either.

VIT 0 is nice, but it causes two problems for Squall. First of all, Tidus has Magic Counter. And you don't need defense to smack someone for doing that. Second of all, Tidus gets a turn. Auto-Life. Now the threat is nullified. Sure, Tidus will be KO'd be Squall's next hit, (assuming Deathstrike since VIT 0 or not, Squall doesn't break 9999) but... he will get back up with all debuffs cleared. So we're back to the outset, except it's Tidus' turn. Quick Hit and it's Tidus' turn again. Another Quick Hit and it's still Tidus' turn. Auto-Life. Squall's turn, if he survived the attacks.

Squall is better off with a Petrify effect in this battle, really. A lot fewer counters to that than Death. And a petrified Tidus versus a dead one doesn't matter all that much in the winning the fight status.

I wonder what the Holy War plan could do. It would give Squall some turns to set up anything nasty, but it's still a stalling tactic. If Tidus gets a turn, assume Auto-Life is up. And yes, Auto-Life does not revive to full HP, just 12.5%, if I remember right. So 12,499 HP to get through on any post KO/Auto-Life turn. Add 100 to 9999 per action for Tidus from Auto-Regen if we assume that's his armor.

Tidus' main weakness, really is that a lot of his stuff costs MP. Auto-Life is awesome, sure, but it's also 97 of the 999 MP he has. Quick Hit is 32. Now he CAN counter this with the Use ability and Twin Stars for the MP 0 ability, but I'm not sure if that lasts through a KO.

It's a fun duel to think of really. They're pretty evenly matched. Squall can take it if he finishes it on the first strike, but that's a dice roll. Tidus can play defense and get damage in from counterattacks if Squall does anything offensive that he survives. Kind of weird to see speedster Tidus be the tank in this battle, really. So, yeah, fun battle. I can see arguments for either contestant.

At least Squall isn't facing Rikku. That's an open and shut case. Rikku wins. Stupid overpowered broken Mix. Sunburst. 19998 unblockable damage. Fight over.

[Kato]

First of, I know I'm making my case more for Squall than for Tidus. Not because I like him more (well, I guess a little, VIII is more nostlagic to me) mainly it's because this is really fun

Do note that Tidus does NOT come standard with the First Strike ability, so if Squall has that, Squall goes first. And... what does Squall do? He has to, in one move, do 99,999 damage or more to an opponent with 255 Defense. If he can't, Tidus hits back for 99,999 damage. If he stalls, Tidus can use Quick Hit for 99,999 damage.

I'm not sure Quick Hit works precisely like that? Having a quick glance at the mechanics guide, if both are in Haste and with identical speed, Quick Hit should "only" give Tidus three turns for every two Squall takes (well, assuming we're using the International/Rerelease Quick Hit). It's an advantage but it's not the three for one. Haste makes things more difficult. ((source)

Junctioning 100 Deaths to his attack calls in the Atk-J formula which says that, assuming no status defenses, "Infliction% = AttackerStr / 4 - TargetVit / 4" and since we assume 255 on each, it's a wash. Now, if Squall uses a Str+X%, he has a chance, mind you. So that is an option. A Str+60% boost makes it 38,25% chance of working and stacking all three Str+ abilities for a combined Str+120% gives a 76,5% chance.[/LIST]
So Squall does have a shot with an all-out Str+20%, Str+40%, Str+60%, Initiative and Atk-J Death. But Tidus can counter that if we replace Auto-Regen with Ribbon.

Er, as we discussed earlier, FFX Ribbon is not Deathproof. Also, I think you missed the second half of the calculation: Infliction% = Infliction% - StatusDefense + StatusAttack. Which basically means Tidus is **** without Deathproof. Because he can not have an innate status defense and Squall's status attack with 100 Deaths is 100%. (source)



Squall still has a bunch of problems, like Auto-Life. We could make the arguments that the counters don't matter because iirc the don't trigger if you die and are brought back with Autolife.

The matter of accuracy and Luck is more difficult... it is hard-ish in both games to max Luck, or at least time-consuming. But now it becomes quite critical which system we use. As Mato noted, in FF VIII if you're luck is maxed you hit, period. In FF X if both luck are equal we would get a fight where one in four physical attacks hits and the rest misses. I guess neither provides a massive advantage to either.


sidenote: Why the eff is X' damage formula more lengthy than my... er, sorry, I think i was chanelling Boomstick there for a second. Anyway, it looks a bit overly complicated. VII's is short and simple. I'm actually not motivated enough to work through the former but in case of the latter we get for the final value before the attack power is calculated... 10. If both have maxed out attack adn defense. And since the Power of a normal attack is 20, that's a whooping 200 damage per attack! That break Damage Limit is totally worth it for Tidus I did a quick calculation according to the same FF X guide as above and get only about 400 damage without any additional effects, mind you. But... I think i did something wrong? (It's getting late)
So... looking at these numbers it might actually be a pretty long fight?

[McNum]

First of, I know I'm making my case more for Squall than for Tidus. Not because I like him more (well, I guess a little, VIII is more nostlagic to me) mainly it's because this is really fun


I'm not sure Quick Hit works precisely like that? Having a quick glance at the mechanics guide, if both are in Haste and with identical speed, Quick Hit should "only" give Tidus three turns for every two Squall takes (well, assuming we're using the International/Rerelease Quick Hit). It's an advantage but it's not the three for one. Haste makes things more difficult. ((source)

Er, as we discussed earlier, FFX Ribbon is not Deathproof. Also, I think you missed the second half of the calculation: Infliction% = Infliction% - StatusDefense + StatusAttack. Which basically means Tidus is **** without Deathproof. Because he can not have an innate status defense and Squall's status attack with 100 Deaths is 100%. (source)

Squall still has a bunch of problems, like Auto-Life. We could make the arguments that the counters don't matter because iirc the don't trigger if you die and are brought back with Autolife.

The matter of accuracy and Luck is more difficult... it is hard-ish in both games to max Luck, or at least time-consuming. But now it becomes quite critical which system we use. As Mato noted, in FF VIII if you're luck is maxed you hit, period. In FF X if both luck are equal we would get a fight where one in four physical attacks hits and the rest misses. I guess neither provides a massive advantage to either.

sidenote: Why the eff is X' damage formula more lengthy than my... er, sorry, I think i was chanelling Boomstick there for a second. Anyway, it looks a bit overly complicated. VII's is short and simple. I'm actually not motivated enough to work through the former but in case of the latter we get for the final value before the attack power is calculated... 10. If both have maxed out attack adn defense. And since the Power of a normal attack is 20, that's a whooping 200 damage per attack! That break Damage Limit is totally worth it for Tidus I did a quick calculation according to the same FF X guide as above and get only about 400 damage without any additional effects, mind you. But... I think i did something wrong? (It's getting late)
So... looking at these numbers it might actually be a pretty long fight?

Did I read that wrong? From your source:

StatusDefense and StatusAttack start at 100 (0%) and the cap is 200 (100%).

I thought it said that without any status protection, StatusDefense was 100, and StatusAttack is in FF8's case = Number of spells. Which gives:

Infliction% - StatusDefense + StatusAttack = Infliction% - 100 + 100 = Infliction% + 0

That's why I omitted it. It's only relevant if Squall goes into battle with less than 100 spells, which he won't. I mean, why would he? That's why it starts at 100, I'd imagine. To allow for a quick and dirty way to count the number of spells into the formula. Sorry for the inaccuracy there, should have shown the full equation.

It does amuse me a bit if the damage calculations actually come out to three digit damage for them. That's just hilarious. Final Fantasy stats really aren't made for PvP, and especially not between games. Except when your ally becomes confused and hits your healer for all the damage. All of it.

Still, I think Squall's best bet is not to go in with 100 Deaths junctioned to Atk-J, but 100 Breaks. Auto-Life becomes a non-issue when Tidus is petrified. And then shattered as FFX characters do when they're petrified for some reason.

[Kato]

Did I read that wrong? From your source:

I thought it said that without any status protection, StatusDefense was 100, and StatusAttack is in FF8's case = Number of spells.

I'll admit to skipping that sentence because I assumed it was related to the spell chance but I still think you're reading it wrong: Both start at a value of 100 but this corresponds to 0%, because they cancel each other out. Which means the basic formula with no additional junctions (or similar) is as you say, but then for each added Death spell the Status attack increases by 1%. (That's the way I read it anyway)

It does amuse me a bit if the damage calculations actually come out to three digit damage for them. That's just hilarious. Final Fantasy stats really aren't made for PvP, and especially not between games. Except when your ally becomes confused and hits your healer for all the damage. All of it.

Eh, it's getting late so I might have made a mistake on either calculation. Less likely with FF VIII because it's pretty simple. But X with all the formulas maybe I missed a parentesis or something... it seems off, but then even Penance doesn't have perfect defense.

Still, I think Squall's best bet is not to go in with 100 Deaths junctioned to Atk-J, but 100 Breaks. Auto-Life becomes a non-issue when Tidus is petrified. And then shattered as FFX characters do when they're petrified for some reason.

Yeah, likely, but going with no-prep time, Death is something you'd use more commonly I think because supposedly it works on more enemies. (Could be totally wrong on that, though)

[McNum]

I think, and it's been a while since I played, I'll admit, my Squall actually stocked Pain in that. Poison/Silence/Darkness all in one. Won't kill anyone, but it will make their life really miserable. Or... was it Meltdown? VIT-0 for free on Attack is quite nice.

Death is not the obvious pick. It only works on fodder enemies, and you can just have Quistis erase those if you really need to, it's useless in the fights that matter. But hitting a boss with VIT-0 without having to summon anything, then going all Limit Break on them? That's never useless.

Actually, for this fight Pain with Silence/Darkness/Poison is quite mean, since Poison does 25% of a character's maximum HP in damage in FFX. Can't cast a spell, can't hit anything, and will die in four turns. I mean, instant death or petrify is more efficient, but Pain or Meltdown aren't bad at all for this.

[Angelalex242]

Well...which Tidus?

Are we using International, or US release?

Also, are we using Chocobo World for Squall? That wasn't available in the US, after all.

There might even be two fights...

US Tidus vs. US Squall (This denies both characters Ribbon...)

International Tidus vs. International Squall

[Mato]

Also, are we using Chocobo World for Squall? That wasn't available in the US, after all.

Join the master race, we have cookies.

Edit - If you like to skip links to Steam, here.

Chocobo World
This version of FFVIII includes the full game “Chocobo World” that was released as a separate application for previous versions. It is possible to play “Chocobo World” directly from the launcher after booting up FFVIII and by fulfilling certain specific conditions in the main game you will also be able to synchronise data between the two games.

[Gnoman]

The matter of accuracy and Luck is more difficult... it is hard-ish in both games to max Luck, or at least time-consuming. But now it becomes quite critical which system we use. As Mato noted, in FF VIII if you're luck is maxed you hit, period. In FF X if both luck are equal we would get a fight where one in four physical attacks hits and the rest misses. I guess neither provides a massive advantage to either.

It's not Luck, it's Hit%, which it is literally impossible for Squall NOT to have maxed out (he has an inherent 255% hit rate with all weapons, meaning that even Blind can't cause a miss). Combined with the way FFVIII's junction system, this means that Tidus WILL be hit with the status effects of Squall's choice every single time Squall gets a turn, meaning that if Tidus fails to kill in a single attack, he's toast unless he's lucky enough to have protection against that status, costing him one of the overpowered abilities that he absolutely requires to stand a chance.

[Angelalex242]

Well, I figure US Tidus has

Break HP limit, Auto Haste, Auto Protect, Auto Life

International Tidus has

Break HP limit, Auto Haste, Ribbon, Auto Life.

This is both with Caladbolg, which is set in stone.

[Kato]

It's not Luck, it's Hit%, which it is literally impossible for Squall NOT to have maxed out (he has an inherent 255% hit rate with all weapons, meaning that even Blind can't cause a miss). Combined with the way FFVIII's junction system, this means that Tidus WILL be hit with the status effects of Squall's choice every single time Squall gets a turn, meaning that if Tidus fails to kill in a single attack, he's toast unless he's lucky enough to have protection against that status, costing him one of the overpowered abilities that he absolutely requires to stand a chance.

Huh, you're right, they do. I could have sworn I'd missed at least once in a while with Squall back in the day.. my memories going bad, I guess.
It's still up to debate which system to use... I feel like the fairest would be using IX's, because it's the game in the middle But claiming either needs to use the system of the other (or needs to evade or defend by the rules of the other) seems like favoring one.
But yes, the Status attacks, especially Death and Stone because they ignore Ribbon are pretty bad for Tidus.

Well, I figure US Tidus has

Break HP limit, Auto Haste, Auto Protect, Auto Life

International Tidus has

Break HP limit, Auto Haste, Ribbon, Auto Life.

This is both with Caladbolg, which is set in stone.

Why would you want Auto-Life (assuming you mean Auto-Pheonix because Auto-Life as far as i recall doesn't exist as an ability)? I mean, I know we said no prep-time but Auto-Life is a total waste of a space Tidus really needs after we considered Squall's deadly status attacks.

[Angelalex242]

Why AutoPhoenix?

Because Tidus can hold 99 phoenix downs. It'd take a while to hack through them all.

And no prep time means he can't use anything as specific as deathproof. Ribbon, sure, but not deathproof.

Now, Squall gets 4 abilities too.

Auto Haste, Initiative, Counter, and Auto Protect should do it. (Squall could use Ribbon, but Tidus's only natural status effect is slow, and auto haste automatically counters that.)

Elem Attack J (doesn't matter, but I like Holy)
Elem DefX4 J (Ultima, Full Life, Life, Shell, absorb all elements at 90%)

Status attack J (Death)
Status defense Jx4
Pain (poison, blind, silence), Petrify, Zombie, Sleep

[DiscipleofBob]

And no prep time means he can't use anything as specific as deathproof. Ribbon, sure, but not deathproof.

Why not?

Death is exceptionally common even in random encounters towards the end of Final Fantasy X. If Tidus was walking around without the rest of his party members backing him up, Deathproof along with Ribbon is a must.

Even so, now you're trying to limit a character not based on what they could have ready, but what you personally think they would have ready. That's an extremely arbitrary and subjective basis.

[Angelalex242]

Considering Screwattack's way of doing things...and how they gave Cloud some CRAPPY materia and his basic buster sword in the fight vs. Link, arbitrary and subjective is how these things are done. Those are the 4 things I'd put on my armor, based on whether it was international or not. I'd probably have separate armor for malboro hunting (unless it's international and ribbon is available)

[Mato]

Considering Screwattack's way of doing things...

If we considered that, we'ed pick the one we can least agree on winning ;)

Why AutoPhoenix?
Because Tidus can hold 99 phoenix downs. It'd take a while to hack through them all.

It doesn't work if the user dies, it can only be used to raise other party members.

Why would you want Auto-Life (assuming you mean Auto-Pheonix because Auto-Life as far as i recall doesn't exist as an ability)?

Auto-Life is a white magic spell, which is called an "ability", in FFX. But if you meant if it's an equipment ability, that's auto-phoenix (see above).

Auto Haste, Initiative, Counter, and Auto Protect should do it. (Squall could use Ribbon, but Tidus's only natural status effect is slow, and auto haste automatically counters that.)

Elem Attack J (doesn't matter, but I like Holy)
Elem DefX4 J (Ultima, Full Life, Life, Shell, absorb all elements at 90%)

Status attack J (Death)
Status defense Jx4
Pain (poison, blind, silence), Petrify, Zombie, Sleep

Junctioning anything to your elemental attack is a waste of time. At the very, very, low levels it can help your damage but it's circumstantial at best. By the middle of nearly every Final Fantasy game elemental attacks are mostly non-useful, and by the late game everything has varying degrees of immunity and absorption on top of the party typically reliably hitting damage cap without a crutch.

I also spoke of status defense before, Squall can cover 14 of the status effects (missing only the unblockable vit0, buffs and curse) using esuna, holy and break. This includes everything you just listed, Squall doesn't need a Ribbon, but why limit things to what one console in one region missed out on, specially if it nerfs Tidus (who'd also lose access to ribbon).

To determine what Tidus/Squall would have, I'd go with the most optimal selections for their respective games assuming full grinding (aka max stats). So ask your self this, how often does death come up in FFX? Then remember that each side can produce win conditions if things are done in their favor, it's who has the most win conditions that'll pull ahead in the average. Tidus may typically lose against death (or not?) but he has his own bag of tricks so maybe someone knows some ways he can keep up.

[Angelalex242]

Despite the fact Tidus is assumed to have 10 times the hp Squall does, (literally!), I believe the status attacks are going to decide it for Squall unless Tidus batman preps with Deathproof.

So, considering Tidus's armor selections, how likely is he to have deathproof?

Meltdown is well worth Squall casting on Tidus, mostly because with 255 Vit on both sides (and auto protect), a single strike won't finish Squall.

You're right though, Autophoenix is of no use to Tidus in this battle. I'd probably default Tidus back to Autoprotect then.

In the US vs. US battle, Squall's Status attacks definitely decide.

So, I dunno. the problem with the AOE resistances is that they don't add up to complete immunity. They can still be breached. So there's that. However, it does cover all statuses like you say.

Specifically...

Holy is +40% resistance to Death, Bio, Berserk, Zombie, Sleep, Confused, Cursed, Drain
Esuna is +20% resistance to Bio, Petrify, Blind, Silence, Berserk, Sleep, Slow, Stop, Curse, Confuse
Reflect is +25% resistance to Bio, Petrify, Blind, Silence, Berserk, Sleep, Slow, Stop, Confuse

This leads to the following totals:
Death:40%
Bio:85%
Berserk:85%
Zombie:40%
Sleep:85%
Confuse:85%
Curse:65%
Drain:40%
Petrify:45%
Blind:45%
Silence:45%
Slow:45% (100% with autohaste)
Stop:45%

Is that better then 100% to 6 statuses? Possibly. He has one more status def junction to use, and I'd probably pick Pain because it's 3 statuses instead of 1.

[Mato]

Is that better then 100% to 6 statuses? Possibly. He has one more status def junction to use, and I'd probably pick Pain because it's 3 statuses instead of 1.

If Tidus wanting to use one his status attacks at normal speed he has to hit and then it has to check Squall's defense. So a successful silence has a 13.5% chance of happening even at 45% resistance. Even at 1% resistance (24.75%), Tidus's best choice is to just use quick hit (25% & ranked faster) to KO just by using damage.

Tidus can only directly cast bio (poison), slow (already immune to) and death (the resistance figure is lower than I thought). Tidus could use items for more, but then Squall could use items too and we know where that road leads.

[Angelalex242]

Well, if Tidus has the WHOLE spheregrid...

Triple Foul from Wakka and Zombie Attack from Auron are also available.

Lulu's grid is pretty useless.

[McNum]

Well, if Tidus has the WHOLE spheregrid...

Triple Foul from Wakka and Zombie Attack from Auron are also available.

Lulu's grid is pretty useless.

That gives me a fantastically stupid idea for Tidus. Use Zombie Attack on Self.

Tidus now has the Zombie status and is immune to Death. And before you say he would have no way of even thinking of that, I point to the Yunalesca boss fight which mercilessly taught you about this particular mechanic, or killed you off with Mega-Death. Which, by the way, would be a rather good argument for Tidus to try to ward against Death attacks. I don't think Final Fantasy 8 has a boss that cryptically dangerous. But Squall has faced enough undead enemies to try and heal Tidus to death after this. And since the common junction for HP in FF8 is Full-Life, well, Tidus may not want the Zombie status for all that long. He's seen THAT one in action from a boss as well.

Seriously, considering the bosses Tidus has faced, I could totally see him being really skittish about unknown foes suddenly making skull snakes pop out of the ground... again. There is an argument between Yunalesca and Seymour Flux, Tidus has seen enough instant death by Death and Zombe -> Full-Life to not go far without something to defend himself against that.

And if it's International Tidus, there's the whole Dark Aeon thing and if he's not paranoid enough before fighting them, he sure will be. Except for Dark Valefor, they are all superboss class. Only a fool lets the Dark Magus Sisters reunite before facing them. That Delta Attack cannot be survived, even with Auto-Life, if I remember right. That and Dark Yojimbo's Zanmato attack. Yup he uses that on the party.

[Kato]

It doesn't work if the user dies, it can only be used to raise other party members.

Auto-Life is a white magic spell, which is called an "ability", in FFX. But if you meant if it's an equipment ability, that's auto-phoenix (see above).

Was going to say the above...
And I know it's a spell of course, but we were talking about armor abilities Sorry for not being more specific.

So, I dunno. the problem with the AOE resistances is that they don't add up to complete immunity. They can still be breached. So there's that. However, it does cover all statuses like you say.

Huh, could have sworn it was more effective than that. Then again, it's still been a while.


Eh, Tidus might try the Zombie strategy but why would he if he doesn't know what his opponent is capable of? Okay, maybe he's cautious and starts with Auto-Life, gets killed by Death Strike but gets another chance. Then uses Zombie... but as you say, Squall can still easily kill him. There#s Recover, Full-Life, I think even Life autokills zombies (?) or if we go back to simple items... a Pheonix Down. It really doesn't get him far.

Going back to the number crunching about damage caused, the odds for Tidus are getting worse because if I didn't screw up he really has little option. Yeah, he can try to overcome Squall's Death resistance but opposed to Squall he has no Vit 0 but... what about Armor Break? I totally forgot about it but it basically does the same thing, doesn't it? And there's not exactly a protection to it. So, both could again go Rocket Tag on the other with damage after they've got their Armor Piercing done. (Assuming the other doesn't cure themselves, both statuses are receptible to Esuna, right?)

[Traab]

Man this is a tough battle to figure out! Have we ever done a vs fight with such an absurd amount of high end gear and skills to work with on both sides? Its a serious game of rock paper scissors to try and batman your way through. "Well if squall does this, tidus does that! Then Squall does this to counter that, which tidus can do this to counter himself!"

[DiscipleofBob]

Man this is a tough battle to figure out! Have we ever done a vs fight with such an absurd amount of high end gear and skills to work with on both sides? Its a serious game of rock paper scissors to try and batman your way through. "Well if squall does this, tidus does that! Then Squall does this to counter that, which tidus can do this to counter himself!"

My personal opinion is that this has gone way out of control with obscure hypotheticals and limitations based on very little.

From everything I've seen, Tidus still wins in most scenarios except:

- If they are both level one and have little in the way of equipment, experience, and haven't had the chance to grind to infinity yet. Squall wins because he starts with the gunblade which is pretty broken in this context.

- If Squall manages to go first AND plays his tactics absolutely perfectly and NEVER gives Tidus an opening to start wailing on him with Quick Hit, Delay Buster, Overdrives every third attacks, etc. The only reasonable way I've seen is Holy War, which then becomes a war of attrition as Tidus can keep casting Auto-Life AND steal other Holy Wars from Squall.

- Tidus has arbitrary restrictions based on region (?) and whether or not someone would think he'd have access to something he has access to in game.

- Kingdom Hearts, where Squall is a badass heartless killer played by David Boreanaz (Angel, Bones) and Tidus is a 10-year old with a stick on a beach.

[Angelalex242]

Intelligence is also a factor. We're playing this Omniscient 3rd person instead of getting in to the minds of the characters. In a Death Battle, Tidus probably isn't going to get to switch weapons and armor around. Neither character will be using the item command. (For Squall, the item command will not even be on his list of 3 commands+Attack that he has to pick. Neither will GF, due to the no outside help clause. Neither will Draw.)

At any rate, for Tidus, First Strike is a Weapon ability. He can't get it on armor, and Caladbolg doesn't carry it. Squall does have room for Init, so he's going first. So Squall is going first. Squall is probably going to do a physical attack against an unknown opponent. He hits, because he can't miss, with 100 Status Attack Deaths. Does Tidus have Deathproof on his initial armor? If no, game over.

If Yes, Squall does crappy damage, because of Vit 255. Tidus counters, doing even crappier damage due to Vit 255 and auto protect. Tidus uses Quick Hit and hits, doing crappy damage, and triggering Squall's counter. Crappy damage done to both sides again. Tidus attacks with quickhit again, wishing he were Auron and had a piercing blade. Since basic physicals are getting nowhere, Squall the military mind casts Meltdown on Tidus, Vit 0 applied, tanking the counter with little trouble. If Tidus Quickhits again, on (Hey, I've got 10 times this guy's HP, I'll just wear him down), then Squall's counter is devastating, doing 1/10 of Tidus's Max HP. At that point, attrition switches Squall's way. Squall next casts Aura on himself. With Vit 0 applied, one Lionheart finishes this, as 99999 HP will not protect you from Lionheart, which can kill Tidus twice over. Tidus could try a limit break, Blitz Ace most likely, but it's pitiful vs. 255 Vit and Auto Protect. He could try armor break, but then it's Squall's turn. He could cast Ultima, but Spr 255 is waiting for that. He could cast Dispel, but he doesn't know what aura does, it doesn't exist in his world.

So what does Tidus even do?

[DiscipleofBob]

So what does Tidus even do?

NOT act like an idiot and switch between weapons/armor and use items as needed?

[Almarck]

Yeah I agree. Say,doesn't 10 have a way to custom build weapons?

[Kato]

My personal opinion is that this has gone way out of control with obscure hypotheticals and limitations based on very little.

From everything I've seen, Tidus still wins in most scenarios[...]

Sorry, but were you following the debate? We admit Tidus to switch weapons and armor, nothing wrong with that. He still needs Armor Break or a Death/Petrify Attack to work to finish things in a proper amount of time. He can't just Quick Hit him to death, unless he wants to spend a few hours doing that based on their maxed out Defense, which gives Squall way more time than he needs. Would he figure that out, probably. But who's to say Squall at this point hasn't already landed a hit with Death, which once Tidus realizes he can do, he needs to adapt to, then he's already spent time using hopefully Auto-Life, Armor Break, maybe another Auto-Life to not die by the next attack...

But if I'm wrong on something tell me, how does Tidus finish this quickly and securely if we don't pass the idiot ball to Squall instead.

[Rakaydos]

Well, it's been awhile since I played FFX, but given what's been mentioned in this thread, Tidus should be going into a fight with a completely unknown opponent specc'd for full defence. Weapon with all 3 counters, armor with anti-death, Ribbon, Regen, and anti-stone. If it turns out the enemy DOESNT have deathtouch or stonetouch, he can swap to a more specialized armor or weapon.

Tidis will be hit first, but squall is likely to use a standard attack. Tidus regens it all, and knows to keep an armor with the appropriate status defence.
Tidus's first action is Quick hit, giving him back his turn, but demonstrating his opponent is just as tough as he is.
Tidus's Second turn is Armor Break
Squall's second turn is Holy Day, because OMGWTF dat regen + damage + armor break + speed. He needs to tank up for a few turns.

Tidus's turn again. a Quick hit reveals Holy Day's effects. Squall responds with Meltdown to armor break tidus right back.

Squall's plan is to armorbreak+aura+lionheart under Holyday
What is Tidus's plan to surive the duration of Holyday? Does Delay buster work through holyday?

[DiscipleofBob]

Sorry, but were you following the debate? We admit Tidus to switch weapons and armor, nothing wrong with that. He still needs Armor Break or a Death/Petrify Attack to work to finish things in a proper amount of time. He can't just Quick Hit him to death, unless he wants to spend a few hours doing that based on their maxed out Defense, which gives Squall way more time than he needs. Would he figure that out, probably. But who's to say Squall at this point hasn't already landed a hit with Death, which once Tidus realizes he can do, he needs to adapt to, then he's already spent time using hopefully Auto-Life, Armor Break, maybe another Auto-Life to not die by the next attack...

But if I'm wrong on something tell me, how does Tidus finish this quickly and securely if we don't pass the idiot ball to Squall instead.

Fine.

Starting equipment for Tidus is completely arbitrary and subjective, so here's my setup:

Tidus starts equipped with a weapon with First Strike. Other abilities are optional. His plan with most monsters is to get the benefit of First Strike before switching to Caladbolg. His armor is a custom job with Ribbon, Deathproof, Break HP Limit, and Auto-Haste. If we don't count the break HP/damage limit of FFX, since that's more of the mechanics evolving than something we should take as an actual advantage of one character over another, replace Break HP Limit with Auto-Med, for the odd Curse status effect which would limit his Overdrives. I argue that Auto-Protect isn't important because if the battle really goes on with his enemy getting more than a turn or two, Tidus will have the chance to cast it on himself. Also, I maintain that this is still pretty rocket tag. But the OP seems to think that the break HP/damage limit is valid so Break HP Limit it is. Ribbon and Deathproof because if Tidus is alone and can't rely on one of the healers to pick him up, he absolutely has to worry about getting back-attacked and insta-killed by something. Ribbon makes the user immune to Zombie, Petrify, Doom, Berserk, and everything else important. The only things it does not protect against are Death (hence Deathproof) and the various Stat Breaks, which Squall doesn't have access to anyway (although Vit 0 can arguably be classified as this)

If Tidus goes first:

Tidus starts out with Delay Buster. He gets at least two turns. There is no reason to suggest Squall has immunity to Delay attacks. Tidus switches to Caladbolg. Switching weapons is an action, but it's one so fast that it most likely results in another turn. If Tidus's attack is low, he uses Armor Break, or even switches to a weapon with Piercing instead of Caladbolg. Then he uses Quick Hit/Delay Buster with the occasional Blitz Ace when appropriate, though Tidus isn't going to waste his limit break if he thinks that his opponent will be alive afterward. Rinse and repeat. Squall never gets a turn.

If Squall goes first:

If Squall attacks relying on Death junctioned to attack, he does a little damage, Death doesn't work, and Tidus goes again. Also likely Tidus will just Counter. The First Strike weapon has room for more abilities, so let's put Evade and Counter and Magic Counter for funzies. Tidus gets a Counter and then his own turn.

See "If Tidus goes first"

If Squall summons a GF, GFs have low casting time, so Tidus gets a shot in

See "If Tidus goes first"
A few more turns necessary to kill the GF as well, but same principle applies.

If Squall casts Meltdown, one of the admittedly good spells which will at least get Vit 0 on Tidus.

See "If Tidus goes first"

If Squall casts Aura so he can try to get a limit break and get Lionheart (which by the way is pure chance to activate)

See "If Tidus goes first"

If Squall uses a Hero/Holy War:

Finally we have something which doesn't add the same way. Tidus gets at least one hit, likely spent using something that doesn't work. Squall gets another turn to do one of the above. Tidus, if needed, switches to an armor with that fourth ability above switched to Master Thief, then steals some of Squall's Holy Wars. Squall gets maybe a turn before Tidus locks it down with Squall's own Holy War and this becomes a battle of attrition and timing. In this and only this scenario can Squall possibly win, and only if he does everything perfectly with perfect timing and doesn't waste any turns trying something that won't work whether he knows it or not.