Erfworld 44 Parson's Klog Page 4

[Tolkien_Freak]

Nice Klog entry, I like this method of advancing the story, very unique.

I'm also liking the fact that there does seem to be developed rules for 'Erfworld' the game. Can't wait until we are shown more of the actual mechanics (so that we might be able to play at home!)

Exactly what I was thinking. I was going to suggest that someone start assembling all this info into one big file for us. That would be awesome.

'I consider you a "unit" in the metaphorical sense.' Wonder what that means.

[Glome]

This klog certainly explains why losing the previous warlord at Warchalking was such a turning point in the battle if it meant everyone losing their warlord bonus. We also have yet another reason why taking out Ansom is crucial for Gobwin Knob's survival if his warlord bonuses are as impressive as one would guess at this point.

I wonder what the bonuses were of Stanley's previous Warlords were, and which stats they have an effect on (apparently not movement unless the warlord bonus is listed elsewhere and is not inclusive in the stats)

[SteveMB]

I wonder what the bonuses were of Stanley's previous Warlords were, and which stats they have an effect on (apparently not movement unless the warlord bonus is listed elsewhere and is not inclusive in the stats)

That's not absolutely certain (it may be that "Garrison" units have zero move, do not pass "GO", do not collect leader bonuses), but it's the simplest interpretation.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Bonus of 2. Well, the klog mentions that the stack bonus goes up to 8. If it's linear, that means the Parson contributes about as much as adding 2 units to the stack.

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What I'm wondering is how a stack's attributes add up. I'll assume for this discussion that Uncroaked have a power of 1.

If you have 3 Uncroaked in a stack, does the stack have a power of 9 (1 for base + 2 for group, times 3)? Or 3 (1 for base, plus 2 for group) but take more hits to kill? Or does the stack not have a power of its own, and is therefore a bit of a misnomer -- in this case you'd have 3 units with a power of 3.

If it's the first possibility, it might explain why we've seen a couple of cases of a "big" unit grouped with a bunch of smaller units (the gwiffon & the orlies, the troll and the uncroaked). Under that system there wouldn't be a whole lot of point to stacking a bunch of similar medium-powered units, as after a while the cumulative leadership bonus of the stack becomes quite large.

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I'm also wondering how large of a group counts as being under "his command". Is it limited to a single stack?

[Kanthalion]

I don't think that it can be a single stack. since if that were the case, Wanda would've summoned the number of units in stanley's army/8 warlords instead of one.

[SteveMB]

I don't think that it can be a single stack. since if that were the case, Wanda would've summoned the number of units in stanley's army/8 warlords instead of one.

"...Any unit with leadership ability is called a 'Commander' or 'Warlord.' These units give a bonus to units under their command.... As Chief Warlord, my leadership bonus applies to all units of my capital...." (emphasis added).

This would seem to imply that a lesser warlord would apply his bonus less broadly (possibly all the way down "only to the stack they're with").

[Kanthalion]

'I consider you a "unit" in the metaphorical sense.' Wonder what that means.

assuming you aren't kidding, "unit," metaphorically speaking, means the same as "Tool"--on several different levels

[Jothki]

Checking back, Webinar's group had eight beings in it, including himself.

[Kanthalion]

"As Chief Warlord, my leadership bonus applies to all units of my capital." (emphasis added). This would seem to imply that a lesser warlord would apply his bonus less broadly (possibly all the way down "only to the stack they're with").

I just looked at the cast of characters page, and I think you have a point: Jill is a warlord, but she is obviously not in charge of the whole army. I don't see the whole command structure, but it would seem that the Chief Warlord is over the whole army as a unit like Jill or Sir Webinar is over a stack. I wonder if there is a level between stack and army?

edit: I also wonder if the CW(Anson) bonus and the SW(Sir Webinar) bonus stack?

edit2: regarding Bogroll's movement, his class on the cast of characters page is garrison, so I think that his 0 move is indeed a function of his class, seeing as a garrison unit has no need to leave its strong point.

[K2]

ooooohhhh...regeneration

[Maerad of Pellinor]

This makes it seem more likely that he'll break the rules, or at least be able to ignore them somehow....

[Doshi]

Checking back, Webinar's group had eight beings in it, including himself.

And Jillian went on her scouting mission on page 9 along with 6 orlies and her Gwiffon.

[TheEmerged]

How broad Parson's bonus applies. Silly me -- paying attention for the lose.

"...applies to all units of my capital."

So the leadership bonus would normally apply to everything in the stack, but Parson's (and one would assume Ansom's as well) applies to every unit assigned to the capital city.

[SteveMB]

How broad Parson's bonus applies. Silly me -- paying attention for the lose.

"...applies to all units of my capital."

So the leadership bonus would normally apply to everything in the stack, but Parson's (and one would assume Ansom's as well) applies to every unit assigned to the capital city.

Hmmm... presumably Stanley has some leadership ability (he was surprised when he couldn't see Parson's stats, so either he's a "warlord" or a "caster"; the former seems more plausible given his role), but still needed to get himself a new chief warlord.

And he thinks Parson, with his crappy +2 bonus, is worth keeping.

Does this imply that his own bonus is a crappier +1 (or even +0, if it's possible to have that and technically count as a "warlord")?

This may also shed some light on why Ansom thinks that a "common infantry" person shouldn't become commander-in-chief -- it may be a matter of course in Erfworld that nobles and royals have better command stats.

[Late Shift]

Hmmm... presumably Stanley has some leadership ability (he was surprised when he couldn't see Parson's stats, so either he's a "warlord" or a "caster"; the former seems more plausible given his role), but still needed to get himself a new chief warlord.

And he thinks Parson, with his crappy +2 bonus, is worth keeping.

Does this imply that his own bonus is a crappier +1 (or even +0, if it's possible to have that and technically count as a "warlord")?

This may also shed some light on why Ansom thinks that a "common infantry" person shouldn't become commander-in-chief -- it may be a matter of course in Erfworld that nobles and royals have better command stats.

I figured it was implying that while a + 2 is really not that bad The Tool figured it would be more what with the upkeep, and the casting of the spell to summon him.

[Demented]

It was noted long ago that Erfworld has the most similarities with the game Warlords II. Or maybe it was Warlord III, I don't remember now. So the game mechanics would probably work roughly like that.

In Warlords I, a +2 warlord isn't such a bad find, early on. Though, not for 1000 shmuckers a turn!

[Erk]

Stanley can't be the Chief Warlord, he's busy being the Overlord. I imagine you can only occupy one rank at a time. Stanley seems like the kind of guy who would just do the warlord job himself if he could

I think I might have an idea what Parson's benefit is. Since a Warlord being present in a stack dictates to a large degree what decisions that stack is in fact capable of making (eg to attack or not) having Parson in a stack might mean that his stack is capable of deciding to move out of turn. Unlike Erfworld units, even the high ranked ones, Parson has a mostly-free will. He isn't constrained to either the idea, nor the mental laws of turn-based living.

That's entirely postulative of course.

In Warlords II, I believe +2 was actually the best a Warlord could have without magical items.

[Demented]

In Warlords I (which I've been playing with for a little while), you need either a Temple blessing or items, since all heros start at strength 5, enough for +1.

[Azukar]

Holy boop, I must be as thick as... something really thick. Possibly porridge.

Second last panel of Erfworld 34, Ansom checks in on his communication hat-thing. Last panel, Webinar and Dora, holding Jillian's hat and sword. Was I the only person not to make the connection that the scouts had just claimed Jillian's items?

Ouch. Needs to open my eyes a little.

[Azukar]

Meanwhile, just 'cos Parson only has a leadership bonus of +2 doesn't mean it's a bad thing.. Stats don't necessarily equate: Warhammer players know that the Leadership of normal infantry tends to be 7 or 8, whereas their Strength is 3, or 4 for especially strong units.

[Scientivore]

Meanwhile, just 'cos Parson only has a leadership bonus of +2 doesn't mean it's a bad thing.. <snip>

It was Parson who said that his leadership bonus was "not too great". If he hadn't said that I would've thought that +2 was pretty good since it would increase Bogroll's stats by a decent multiple. Then again, you can get a +8 bonus just for being in a full stack...then again then again, his leadership bonus is for every Gobwin Knob unit.

Do we even know which stats get those bonuses? I'm assuming Combat and Defense.

[Madhatter_-32F]

I've never really had a reason to analyze a comic before. This is kinda.. cool.

Might as well add my two and a half cents to this conversation, whatever they're worth. This is my opinion, but I don't see Overlord Stanly as very strategically inclined. It seems more to me, from how he was apparently further upset by Parson's low bonus, that it's not so much he's considering the possibility that Parson may have a redeeming ability as it's Wanda who is and won't give Stanly a choice. However, it is always possible that Parson is like unto Erfworld as Missingno. was to Pokemon (it's the only thing I could relate it to), basically a glitch that the rules can't relate to, so it makes up random wierd stuff to fill in the gaps, such as one or two mind-numbingly high stats, plenty of sub-par stuff that the good stats can't work without, an ability he can't even use, an awesome super attack that is fundamentally flawed, and the sole redeeming ability to do things that defy the program, and also destroy it at the same time. Of course, there's always the chance that he's the product of divine intervention, or that there could be a DM who's running the show and figured that he needed a better villain (especially since Parson seemed to recognize the castle and general theme of the battle).

I don't know about you guys, but I'll just wait untill the comic progresses a little further.

EDIT: The latter two seem to make more sense now that I just remembered the 'Stupid Meals' with their convenient wisdom and suspiciously useful toy.

[Erk]

Hehe, there is a DM, his name is "Rob".

[Drascin]

I've never really had a reason to analyze a comic before. This is kinda.. cool.

Might as well add my two and a half cents to this conversation, whatever they're worth. This is my opinion, but I don't see Overlord Stanly as very strategically inclined. It seems more to me, from how he was apparently further upset by Parson's low bonus, that it's not so much he's considering the possibility that Parson may have a redeeming ability as it's Wanda who is and won't give Stanly a choice. However, it is always possible that Parson is like unto Erfworld as Missingno. was to Pokemon (it's the only thing I could relate it to), basically a glitch that the rules can't relate to, so it makes up random wierd stuff to fill in the gaps, such as one or two mind-numbingly high stats, plenty of sub-par stuff that the good stats can't work without, an ability he can't even use, an awesome super attack that is fundamentally flawed, and the sole redeeming ability to do things that defy the program, and also destroy it at the same time.

If you want another analogy, try .Hack. Kite, Aura, Tri-Edge, all of those were much like you describe Parson -characters in a game that could alter it when they so wanted, even against the will of the supposed GMs.

And yeah, it would be useful to have some reference point as to what are "good" and "bad" stats, to be able to judge, as different games sport vastly different ranges of numbers. Hearing +2 bonus doesn't sound too impressive for us D&D junkies, but ask any warhammer 40k player what a +2 bonus to BS does to the enemy and you'll start to see what I mean ;)

[Scientivore]

I've never really had a reason to analyze a comic before. This is kinda.. cool.

Yes, give in to the Geekside. Feeeeel its power!

Might as well add my two and a half cents to this conversation, whatever they're worth.

Two and a half cents, I'd wager.

This is my opinion, but I don't see Overlord Stanly as very strategically inclined. It seems more to me, from how he was apparently further upset by Parson's low bonus, that it's not so much he's considering the possibility that Parson may have a redeeming ability as it's Wanda who is and won't give Stanly a choice.

I agree. It's an unfortunate fact of life that even managers who are dynamic and self-improving can be very pessimistic about the people around them, assuming that everyone else will be no better tomorrow than they are today.

It's even more unfortunate how accurate that expectation can be.

However, it is always possible that Parson is like unto Erfworld as Missingno. was to Pokemon (it's the only thing I could relate it to), basically a glitch that the rules can't relate to, so it makes up random wierd stuff to fill in the gaps, such as one or two mind-numbingly high stats, plenty of sub-par stuff that the good stats can't work without, an ability he can't even use, an awesome super attack that is fundamentally flawed, and the sole redeeming ability to do things that defy the program, and also destroy it at the same time.

That seems to be Parson's opinion.

Of course, there's always the chance that he's the product of divine intervention, or that there could be a DM who's running the show and figured that he needed a better villain (especially since Parson seemed to recognize the castle and general theme of the battle).

Parson recognized it because Stanley specified that during the spellcasting. "Everything should seem familiar and safe to him. No crazy surprises."

Hehe, there is a DM, his name is "Rob".

Something about the way you put that made me think of how Belkar would say it: Erfworld has a DM, it starts with "R" and ends with "ob Balder and Jamie Noguchi".

[Dark]

Yes, give in to the Geekside. Feeeeel its power!

A reader's strength flows from Reason. But beware of the dark side. Analysis... geekery... speculation. The dark side of Reason are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a debate. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.

[Emperor Demonking]

I want to see special regeneration in action and other powers, units have.

[Zavion]

There could be ranks of leadership units: Overlord, Chief Warlord, Warlord, Commander. Commander could be a 'normal' unit that has the Leadership bonus, Warlord and Chief Warlord could just be 'commander' units that have been upgraded. This seems to be to be similar to Civlilzation games, in a way. What with Unit Upkeep, the units being based on a city, garrison units that can't move, ect. That's just my take. It could be that, as Parson's knowledge of Erfworld grows, his leadership bonus might also grow, and that all he knows about is the basics of combat and magic, so he has just a +2. Maybe with each area of mastery or more information, that bonus would rise. His upkeep might be so high because he is such a special unit, perhaps he has no attack or defense score and can't harm or be harmed by other units, only captured or 'killed' instantly, like the settler unit or the spy unit.

[h3rne]

Oh WOW! Go and grab a pair of 3D glasses. The 3D Bogroll actually works!

Pclips - you guys never cease to amaze.

[SteveMB]

Parson recognized it because Stanley specified that during the spellcasting. "Everything should seem familiar and safe to him. No crazy surprises."

I hadn't made that connection (I figured it was just that the similarity between the geography of Gobwin Knob and that of Parson's scenario was the reason Wanda locked onto him instead of somebody else), but it does make sense.

Edit: It's become clear that quite a few things in the rules for how Erfworld works are not at all "familiar" to him, and instead constitute "crazy surprises". Presumably, this can be chalked up to the limitations of how close a match Wanda was able to find for Stanley's last-minute criteria.