3.5 Classes that Broke Your Heart

[lonewulf]

Im not saying anything new here but my list is...

Warmage past level 8. In low level games a Warmage can be amazing...but then they suck unless you turn them into something that isnt a warmage.

Dragon Disciple prc. Awesome idea. Looks great at first glance but look again...cuz its a trap. A suckfest of a trap.

Vow of Poverty. I know its not an actual class but it simulates one. Looks like it would be great for a Monk but ITS A TRAP. This will ruin at least 75% of all classes. Psionic classes can handle it but only if you roll some great stats...makes you MAD as hell.

Monk. Not as bad as some say but fails to really deliver as a martial arts master.

Fighter. I still play them in low level games but feats alone are not enough. Some class features would go a long way towards fixing the fighter.

[lsfreak]

the one vestige is one at the same time. You can end a pact early, and yes you can bind another vestige, as long as you bind someone of the appropriate level.

You can only do this 1/day and only if you have a feat. Otherwise you must have a particular vestige for a 24 hour period before you can change.

[CrazyYanmega]

Alienest from Complete Arcane broke my heart recently. Gives you control of Pseudonatural creatures?! That will be AWESOME at epic levels! What's that fine print? "Doesn't... apply... to ELH... Pseudonaturals..." =.=

Well, fudge.

Also Zerth Cenobite. A monk prestige class revolved around stopping time?! YES WAY! You can only use the individual abilities once per day? ARGH! Why not let it upgrade to 3 times per day at higher levels?

[Marlowe]

I'm going to put a vote in for Shadowcaster.

Fussy, overengineered, underdesigned, lacking in stamina and so finicky that you can't fix it easily without breaking something else about it. Even the unofficial fix that's been printed messes things up by breaking the order of bonus feats and creating yet another Mysteries/day pool you of which you have to keep track.

I had a post a while back about how to make a better Shadowcaster using classes that aren't the Shadowcaster. I think we came to the conclusion that you could take your pick, and that a Beguiler could make a better Shadowcaster just by not using half its spell list.

[J-H]

Stonelord, from CW. Great flavor, but the abilities are pretty much all 1x/day. Class level/day for each would work better.

[Socratov]

You can only do this 1/day and only if you have a feat. Otherwise you must have a particular vestige for a 24 hour period before you can change.

ok, and then still, you get to prepare yoruself for the coming day, if you get the feat, you can rewire the stuff you can do, allow for a bit of flexibility. The fighter and barbarian are still stuck with the same schtick ever. Same goes for Warlock who needs to get creative with what he can do.

[Maxium]

I would have to say abjurant champion. Such and amazing prestige class on in book, horrid on the table.

[Extra Anchovies]

I would have to say abjurant champion. Such and amazing prestige class on in book, horrid on the table.

I've never seen anyone select it for its class features. Only because it's full casting and full BAB.

[Seerow]

I've never seen anyone select it for its class features. Only because it's full casting and full BAB.

Free quickened abjurations and big bonus to shield made it pretty attractive for a couple of players in my group at different times. Personally I try to avoid it when building a gish just because it has become such a standard.

[SimonMoon6]

Actually, I don't think the fact that the class goes from 'Crap' to 'God-King of the Universe' really makes anything better. If anything, it makes some newer DMs assume casters suck and try to favor them because of early experiences.

My favorite experience was a 1e game which was supposedly set in an Arthurian setting. The rules for this setting were created by one guy, but he wanted to play in the setting, so he gave the rules to another guy to run for us. Both of them looked at the druid spell list and found it lacking. So, the first guy improved the druid spell list and then the second guy improved it even more.

And I was playing a druid (well, ranger/druid with rules from Dragon magazine, iirc). What neither of these two guys had realized was that druids (in 1e) got their high level spells a lot faster than other casters. So, pretty soon, my druid was casting fireballs all over the place (well, until he got some artifact wand thing that made pretty much everything else irrelevant).

[Anachronity]

The pyromancer from Expanded Psionics Handbook. It's such a cool class, but who the guulvorg is supposed to take it???

8 ranks of concentration and a power point reserve as requirements, but the class punishes casters for taking it worse than a strict no-nonsense father figure punishes his son for ruining his stereo system (I'm sorry, dad!)

The easiest entry is rogue or factotum, but at 2+int skillpoints per level you're freezing your skills by doing so. Its abilities scale completely independently of any other class, so I'm left to assume it was intended for particularly high-level xeph commoners who want to get their zen on... and have set fire to a structure of any size just to watch it burn...


Even worse is the cryokineticist from frostburn. This time they made sure that you had to have manifester levels by throwing in a 2nd-level power as a requirement. As a reward for the harsher requirement you get a copy/pasted class with limited uses per day of powers that don't even scale with your level anymore! The only redeeming factor is your bizarre ability to create an unlimited number of ice walls at 9th level, which would be way more fun than just killing people with fire like the pyro does at 9th.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hexblade. Hexblade Hexblade Hexblade.

Also Paladins, but I'll never be satisfied with the implementation of Paladins so it doesn't really break me up anymore.

[Flickerdart]

The pyromancer from Expanded Psionics Handbook. It's such a cool class, but who the guulvorg is supposed to take it???

The pyrokineticist is for people who want to make a fire whip and/or punch people with fire fists - melee combatants that got a PP reserve through a dip or Wild Talent. Even for them it's not spectacular, though; the 3.0 version, which granted a power progression, was better in that regard but worse in many others.

[Forrestfire]

I would have to say abjurant champion. Such and amazing prestige class on in book, horrid on the table.

Are you looking at the same class I am? It's got full casting, full BAB, cool thematics, and incredibly useful class features. Free extends on lots of utility buffs like Anticipate Teleportation, Ray Deflection, Resist Energy, Alarm... Massive bonuses to AC when combined with (Greater) Luminous Armor and Shield, freeing up wealth for cooler things, or letting you buy a suit of armor without the high cost of mithral and then stock up on armor and shield enhancements, since your bonus is good already. Free quickens on many useful abjurations, giving a bit more versatility with stuff like Resist Energy (put it up when you know what color the dragon is or something, rather than before)...

Its 5th level ability is underwhelming for the standard entry, but the class itself is amazing. Combine it with 9 levels of Swiftblade and the result is everything I could want out of a gish. Every time I've played one, it's been incredibly fun and powerful.

[ShurikVch]

Also Zerth Cenobite. A monk prestige class revolved around stopping time?! YES WAY! You can only use the individual abilities once per day? ARGH! Why not let it upgrade to 3 times per day at higher levels?

To fix it, take all 10 levels in Dragon Disciple (Time Dragon) - you will get Time Stop at-will

The pyromancer from Expanded Psionics Handbook. It's such a cool class, but who the guulvorg is supposed to take it???
...
Even worse is the cryokineticist from frostburn.

The old (3.0), but good PrC for Pyro/Cryo/... psionicists is Kineticist - it have 7/10 psion manifesting progression

[Venger]

I would have to say abjurant champion. Such and amazing prestige class on in book, horrid on the table.

abjchamp is a great class! what exactly happened to the player at your table who used it?

[CrazyYanmega]

What the heck is a time dragon? Where can I find this awesome dragon that lets me Time Stop at WILL?!

Oh, and what's a dragon disciple?

[Forrestfire]

The Time Dragon is an epic dragon from Dragon 359. As far as I know, there is no rules for how half-time dragons work. A Dragon Disciple is a fairly bad prestige class from the Dungeon Master's Guide.

[nedz]

The Time Dragon is an epic dragon from Dragon 359. As far as I know, there is no rules for how half-time dragons work.

They're probably covered in advertising.

[ZamielVanWeber]

To fix it, take all 10 levels in Dragon Disciple (Time Dragon) - you will get Time Stop at-will

I fail to see where Dragon Disciple or half-dragon gives SLAs.

The old (3.0), but good PrC for Pyro/Cryo/... psionicists is Kineticist - it have 7/10 psion manifesting progression

The updated Pyrokineticist is not too bad, mostly because Acetokineticist isn't commonly resisted and Sonokineticist can ignore hardness, allowing it to bust through objects efficiently (and all its dice dropping a step isn't a huge deal).

[LoyalPaladin]

Also Paladins, but I'll never be satisfied with the implementation of Paladins so it doesn't really break me up anymore.

Words hurt, you know...

[CrazyYanmega]

It's not a class, but the Ectopic Form line of feats recently broke my heart. They look so cool, and they have neat abilities that would synergize great with the menu options, but NOOOOOOO, you burn feats to nerf your constructs.

[nedz]

Words hurt, you know...

Hmmm, maybe someone should make a class based around that concept ?

[Jormengand]

Hmmm, maybe someone should make a class based around that concept ?

Bard. It's called the bard.

IT'S CALLED THE BARD DON'T QUESTION IT.

[LoyalPaladin]

Hmmm, maybe someone should make a class based around that concept ?

Bard. It's called the bard.

I think the 4e Bard got an ability called "Cutting Words".

[Forrestfire]

It's not a class, but the Ectopic Form line of feats recently broke my heart. They look so cool, and they have neat abilities that would synergize great with the menu options, but NOOOOOOO, you burn feats to nerf your constructs.

Can we just... Put Complete Psionics as a whole into this? Barring Soulbow and Ardent, that book seems like it's better-off being attributed to a strange nightmare about D&D.

[CrazyYanmega]

Can we just... Put Complete Psionics as a whole into this? Barring Soulbow and Ardent, that book seems like it's better-off being attributed to a strange nightmare about D&D.

You know what, you're right. Now that I think about it, practically the entire book broke my heart. Except for the Stygian powers, those are frikkin' sweet.

[ShurikVch]

I fail to see where Dragon Disciple or half-dragon gives SLAs.

What's you suggest instead it?
Damage Reduction? No other Dragon Disciple gets it, despite literally every single True Dragon have it
Time Control? Come on, it's only 5 turns/day! Even weakest of Lung half-dragons are get their Water Breathing all day long!

[Flickerdart]

What's you suggest instead it?
Damage Reduction? No other Dragon Disciple gets it, despite literally every single True Dragon have it
Time Control? Come on, it's only 5 turns/day! Even weakest of Lung half-dragons are get their Water Breathing all day long!

There are lots of crappy templates and crappy PrCs. This doesn't mean you should start handing out Time Stop to them for free.

[Hawkstar]

Bard. It's called the bard.

IT'S CALLED THE BARD DON'T QUESTION IT.

Okay. I laughed at this.