Erfworld 47 (Page 43)

[SteveMB]

Steve: good point that there might not have been a battle. Really good point! Wow. That is very possible. Once stanley saw the archons show up he knew the game was over and ordered the attack cancelled.

"Ansom staying with the column was smart." It seems that Vinnie was able to talk sense into him after all.

Once Stanley's side discovered that Ansom hadn't taken the bait this time, the ambush was pointless. Once they found out about Charlie's Archons (power level unknown, but presumably high given that Parson, and implicitly Wanda, think having Charlie on their side would have been a significant factor), the "ambush" would be revealed as a trap for Stanley's side, causing him casualties he just can't afford when he's already outnumbered 25:1. The only question is which piece of bad news they got first.

Regaring nobles, I would think that the leaders qualified as nobility except then how can Jillian be a royal without being in command of a tribe?

My guess is that "once a noble/royal, always a noble/royal" (i.e. that status is still there even if one loses one's tribe).

[Nightmarenny]

Now one wonders if they even have sexual organs, or if they are just barbie dolls under the clothes. That puts a bit of the sexual ambiguity of Wanda and Jillian's relationship into light!

Oh, and it smashes the "sisters" theory flat for good, thank goodness.

But if there are no children, how are there nobles and royals? I wonder how noble houses are determined?

Also, re:OP
"filler comic"?! Wtf? A bit of gratuitous violence would have been much more of a filler than this was.

PS: another thought. It's possible that the failed trap was not of interest anymore to gobwin knob, because it has failed to accomplish its goals, and therefore doesn't need showing from their perspective. It might still have impact for Ansom's side, though, in which case we will probably hear and/or see more of it when the perspective switches back to them.

In many strategy games there are special units that are far stronger with better abilities that serve as your "Heros" in the game. I would bet in this story the magority are called royals. As an example

Star Wars Empire at War-Fetures the various characters from the movie and EU. They have tons of HP and cool special abilities where they can turn the tide all alone. The Falcon can be invincible. Boba Fetts flamethrower can kill a platoon of infanry, Vader can force crush a vehicle ect.

Warcraft 3-Each race fetures three generic "hero" class that grow stronger and get new abilities.

Now stanley's existence also lends credence to the possibility of "vetrean" units. The way he became the "Royal" was most likley that he gained enough experience that he could be converted from whatever his class to "royal" or maybe the arkenhammer is a special weapon found on the landscape that automatticly turns the unit the touchs it into an extra Royal .

[factotum]

As far as the comment about them not having sexual organs is concerned, well, they certainly have mammary glands...

I quite liked that we didn't see the actual trap. It probably would have consisted of Stanley shouting a lot anyway, which tends to grate after a while.

[SteveMB]

As far as the comment about them not having sexual organs is concerned, well, they certainly have mammary glands...

True, and so there's no real reason to assume they don't have the whole ensemble. It'll be interesting to see what Parson makes of this in his klog entry.

I quite liked that we didn't see the actual trap. It probably would have consisted of Stanley shouting a lot anyway, which tends to grate after a while.

Well, when Stanley found out about Ansom not taking the bait, and about the Archons, we would have found out one way or another whether Erfworld natives ever attempt to say words that come out as "boop".

[Aquillion]

So. Units pop, just like a strategy game. How do they age? Or do they? I suppose we'll have to wait and see...again...

Have you ever played a strategy game where the units survived long enough to age?

I start to feel the same, though my fuse burnt out a bit later, when Parson mentioned Wednesday Addams to Wanda. Parson should already know that Erfworld is totally ignorant of Earth culture. So that reference was told solely to us, the Earth audience. (The reference could still fired at us with a thought bubble, instead of telling).

That's the joke. He expected her to ask "Who is Wednesday Addams?", not "What's a child?"

[Vreejack]

That's assuming that there was any battle. Given that Team Stanley has better intel (Lookamancers and dwagon air recon), it's possible that they discovered the strength of Ansom's forces (including Charlie's Archons) in time to scrub the ambush -- and scrubbing the ambush was the only sane thing to do once it was clear that it was likely to turn into a real battle (Stanley can't afford to fight a battle in the open -- even if his side inflicts two or three times as many casualties on the enemy as they take, it's a net loss for him under the circumstances) rather than an overwhelming trap.

Too true. All there would have been was one panel of Stanley Steamer and one panel of Wanda explaining "Charlie" to Parson. Something must have happened in the exchange, however, because Wanda is helping Parson in the library, something she didn't bother to do before. Perhaps Stanley ordered it.

In any event it was much more fun to figure out the missing panels than to actually read them.

[Nerd_Paladin]

I start to feel the same, though my fuse burnt out a bit later, when Parson mentioned Wednesday Addams to Wanda. Parson should already know that Erfworld is totally ignorant of Earth culture. So that reference was told solely to us, the Earth audience. (The reference could still fired at us with a thought bubble, instead of telling).

I imagine the reference was more for Parson's personal amusement than anything else (and possibly a coping mechanism). Also, ya know, it was funny. I notice that there are no thought bubbles in this comic, which I approve of.

Ansom was smart enough not to take the bait. I'm surprised and impressed. I assume this means Jillian was "rescued" again?

Wanda gets harder to figure out every week. Which is a good thing.

[20thLevelGeek]

Re: the pacing: holy sacred cow! Rob really can't win here.

snip

He's winning with me! Though honestly we didn't really need to see it. Once the Archons showed up it was pretty much a for gone conclusion that the trap was not going to work. The only thing interesting that we would have seen is how dwagons and archons matched up. I'm guessing it didn't happen, so I'm guessing it wasn't worth showing.

I also like the fact that Parson, for the geeky uber nerd that he is, that he is somewhat humble and can actually believe that his "perfect trap" failed. And that he is more concerned about failed advantages, than getting hung up on his losses.

Parson also seems to be the sort of guy who lives for pop culture, he's not throwing out the Wednesday Adams comment for us. He's throwing it out there because thats how he talks... Which is why he doesn't baulk at some of the weird stuff in Erfworld

PS. I do remember now seeing Parson reading a Dragon mag earlier on. and I would love to read what Hamstard has to say about WotC giving it the boot....

[Sam de Cheese]

im really lost here, i dont get what anyone is talking about. I should go back and reread it all but... meh, im to lazy.

[Aidan305]

Was I the only person who found the last panel of that comic slightly scary? If not downright disturbing.

[SteveMB]

Ansom was smart enough not to take the bait. I'm surprised and impressed.

Hmmm... my initial assumption on that was that Vinnie had talked some sense into him, but now I wonder if he was planning it this way (i.e. hire the Archons to protect Jillian and Webinar's group and also turn any ambush attempt into a trap for Stanley's forces) back when he asked to be put in touch with Charlie. If so, massing his air units would just be a fake-out ploy (that part apparently didn't work, given that Parson knows that he stayed with the column -- OTOH, they may have discovered that part after scrubbing the ambush because they found out that the Archons were waiting for them).

Was I the only person who found the last panel of that comic slightly scary? If not downright disturbing.

Like I said, it was a "WTF?" moment followed by an "of course" (it's a turn-based strategy-game world) moment. Very effective double-tap to the brain.

[factotum]

Something must have happened in the exchange, however, because Wanda is helping Parson in the library, something she didn't bother to do before. Perhaps Stanley ordered it.

She wouldn't have had time to do it before anyway--she had to go for her little chat with Jillian not long after she summoned Parson in the first place, and we're only on the next day after that.

[JannaM]

I'm surprised that Wands lets Parson in on her little trick how to manipulate Stanley. I would've thought she was a more distant puppeteer that liked to keep information to herself since knowledge equals power. On the other hand we're seeing that she does want Parson to be competent to some degree, so she might still have her ulterior motives, including plans for Jillian.

And to top it off, we're still left in the dark whether or not Wanda anticipated the trap's failure, and actually worked towards it. I can't see persuasive evidence that she couldn't possibly have genuine concern for Jillian, or motives that might even contradict Stanley's plans outright.

As for the "speedbump" in our plot... I think at least one panel to reminisce about the failed trap would have helped to set us into the proper mindset, and might have offered even more possibilities for speculation. This is the single reason that made me frown for the first time during the comic's run. The first panel could have kept the dialog and instead showed some debris or smitten units, or perhaps the Archons ready to counter-ambush to link the previous page to this one.

My minor peeve was silenced, however, as the punchline was delivered on the last panel. I do feel like I'm treated as a thinking reader and not fed entertainment for the masses.

[SteveMB]

I'm surprised that Wands lets Parson in on her little trick how to manipulate Stanley. I would've thought she was a more distant puppeteer that liked to keep information to herself since knowledge equals power. On the other hand we're seeing that she does want Parson to be competent to some degree, so she might still have her ulterior motives, including plans for Jillian.

My assumption is that 1)she thinks Parson might be useful, and therefore teaches him enough about how to manipulate Stanley so he can function without getting himself disbanded, and 2)she may ultimately intend to undercut Stanley, and wants Parson to be able to work against him.

And to top it off, we're still left in the dark whether or not Wanda anticipated the trap's failure, and actually worked towards it. I can't see persuasive evidence that she couldn't possibly have genuine concern for Jillian, or motives that might even contradict Stanley's plans outright.

I strongly suspect that there's some genuine feeling for Jillian mixed in the exploitation, and some hidden agenda that doesn't necessarily suit Stanley's interests. Of course, with Wanda it's always hard to tell....

As for the "speedbump" in our plot... I think at least one panel to reminisce about the failed trap would have helped to set us into the proper mindset, and might have offered even more possibilities for speculation. This is the single reason that made me frown for the first time during the comic's run. The first panel could have kept the dialog and instead showed some debris or smitten units, or perhaps the Archons ready to counter-ambush to link the previous page to this one.

The more I think about it, the more I infer that the ambush was cancelled before much of anything beyond releasing Jillian happened, as Team Stanley discovered the two problems (the Archons were there; Ansom wasn't) with the plan. If so, it's a bit difficult to provide any meaningful visuals.

Ironically, in view of Wanda's "how to use the Tool" lesson, scrubbing the operation probably really was Stanley's idea, given that he expressed misgivings about the risk during the initial planning phases. Once it became clear that the plan was riskier than he's thought (the Archons) and that it wasn't going to achieve its objective even if it was a complete tactical success (Ansom didn't show up), that was that.

[benthehater]

I think there's an additional plausible reason that Wanda has informed Parson of her means of managing the tool, even though it probably reveals a little bit too much of how Wanda might potentially be running the show.

In panel 13 and 14 of page twenty, I have to feel that Wanda, while not quite aware of what Parson means by "tool" in this context, is aware that Parson has made Stanley appropriate a kind of insult as an honorific. That fact that she refers to Stanley as "His Toolship" carries back to that page and her realization that Parson was at least a little more clever than Stanley.

Wanda's abililty to manage interpersonal relationships seems to be her strongest skill here. And to Parson's credit, he seemed to suddenly appreciate that Wanda is scary, though I don't think he quite made the connection to think about how much he ought be scared of Wanda himself.

[ryos]

If they scrubbed the ambush, it's not hard to imagine how it could have gone worse. The could have sent a stack or two of Dwagons and have them all wiped out.

How do we reconcile Parson's comment with them calling off the ambush with no casualties?

[Daedalus73]

It now specifically feels like they author and illustrator are "rushing" the story. It's as though we're losing completeness in order to reach the end. I would hope the author and illustrator go back to insert a page there in the future.

Exactly. It's felt that way since they started doing "Klogs", actually.

[Nemo2342]

Now one wonders if they even have sexual organs, or if they are just barbie dolls under the clothes. That puts a bit of the sexual ambiguity of Wanda and Jillian's relationship into light!

They can't be completely Barbie-esque, because if they were they wouldn't need chamber pots and Dirtomancers. You can't make crap golems without the vital ingredient, so to speak.

[the_tick_rules]

so now the archons are against stanley, why, he payed them. Jyst give them another job to do.

[Ultimatum479]

How do we reconcile Parson's comment with them calling off the ambush with no casualties?

Good point. Maybe the Archons are somehow resistant to Lookamancy, or perhaps magic in general?

[normalphil]

Have you ever played a strategy game where the units survived long enough to age?

Dominions 3.

[Plato]

black and white :P

[Wardog]

But if there are no children, how are there nobles and royals? I wonder how noble houses are determined?

Probably by the Erfworld manual saying "Prince Ansom is the son of King Wossname".

Instant family history and line of succession, with no inconvenient waiting for the Prince to become old enough to lead an army.

(Unless there is some sort of "build time" on producing a warlord).

[SteveMB]

It's possible that certain leaders are defined as "nobles" and "royals" in the mechanics of the world.

Probably by the Erfworld manual saying "Prince Ansom is the son of King Wossname".

Instant family history and line of succession, with no inconvenient waiting for the Prince to become old enough to lead an army.

It occurs to me that "noble" or "royal" can't be part of the "unit stats" that leaders and casters can see, or else Jillian's "Not so's anyone would know" comment makes no sense.

[Pronounceable]

This keeps getting better and better. I'm anxious to see more.

[Ultimatum479]

Not necessarily, Steve. It might not show up for Jillian anymore since she's not in control of her tribe (which is pretty much wiped out). If she were to take control of a tribe again, "noble" might show up in her stats again.

I wonder how the game mechanics differ for noble leaders versus non-noble leaders like Stanley. Perhaps noble leaders command more loyalty and thus pay lower upkeep costs, or something like that.

[CobaltSky]

I liked the gap. It did jar at first and I did worry that there was a page missing but it bacame clear that it was intentional after a few frames. Surprising the reader, keeping them on their toes so to speak, is a good thing IMO. Pacing in this comic has been excellent, which is an area where many webcomics fail. I'm thinking of Megatokyo as the worst example of poor pacing (not to mention the plot fell apart). This on the other hand not only maintains good pacing in each page but the pacing between pages has been used to great effect. Adding a sense of confusion and mystery that I feel is far superior to just another battle scene.

Mistaking this for an action comic is very easy considering the concepts it is based in but when you look at it from the right angle, this choice is very wise indeed.

[Ultimatum479]

The gap didn't bother me at all, really...

[SteveMB]

Not necessarily, Steve. It might not show up for Jillian anymore since she's not in control of her tribe (which is pretty much wiped out). If she were to take control of a tribe again, "noble" might show up in her stats again.

Perhaps. Another possibility is that some sort of magic (Mathamancy?) can conceal or falsify a unit's visible stats.

[Opal Etta]

Perhaps this is a moot point, but how do you know that the, "What's a child?" comment meant there are no children in Erfworld? Couldn't it mean that they're called something else? It's not so hard for me to believe that certain things would have names more than a letter or two off from the English version. I'd also have to agree that the creation idea would make sense.
On another topic, I'm always finding new things to enjoy in this comic. I love references I keep finding. I visited the cast page recently and found that Wanda is from a lost tribe, the Croatan. I love these references! Especially since I've always loved that story in history. There are so many more than just that but I was most impressed by that allusion to past events. This just keeps getting better!