afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VI

[atemu1234]

Could there be a crystal sphere within a crystal sphere?

[Tzardok]

Didn't someone ask that question a few pages back?

[Larkas]

snip

Hmmm, I'll sleep on that.

What you have there is an alternate Prime.

Oh, well, figured as much. Is there any alternate cosmology, however sketchy, that you think is at least a little interesting that I could expand upon?

[WalkingTheShade]

Is there any Power in canon that claims every other Power is a fake and actively tries to subvert and assimilate every other religion, not caring about creed or alignment?

[Tzardok]

Not directly, but in the novels about Cyric his church is fond of calling him "the only true god" and the other deities are "false gods", and in the Hourglass of Zihaja we have, well, Zihaja, who is the true deity of the Kamala, and all other gods are either guests or aspects of him, which he subsumed.

Edit: That is, if you don't want to cause controverse and try to include the monotheistic god of the abrahamitic religions.

[enderlord99]

Avoid the slaad.

Indeed. If there's one thing I learned from Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story, it's that people with hilarious speech-patterns are dangerous.

[Jurai]

Indeed. If there's one thing I learned from Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story, it's that people with hilarious speech-patterns are dangerous.

That's Mario and Luigi in general. 1337 Hammer Bros, Shroobs, Fawful. About the only thing that could be trusted and spoke normally were Bowser's Globins, and they were quite globin. IS IT NOT GLOBIN?

Ahem! Now, with that ended, are there any major playwrights or other sources of culture in the mortal sense in the outer planes, aside from the horde of them in Sigil?

[Naanomi]

Say I'm a Prime from a little world dominated completely by one pantheon. I die, and I'm *really* a Valhalla sort of guy, just a perfect fit... But none of the Gods of my world live there.

Do I end up in Valhalla anyways?
If I do, is there some mechanism where the God(s) I honored in life still get 'credit/power' from my soul, even if I don't end up chilling in their divine realms?
Can it vary from world to world, or pantheon to pantheon?

[afroakuma]

Could there be a crystal sphere within a crystal sphere?

Yes.

Oh, well, figured as much. Is there any alternate cosmology

No. I basically hate all of them.

Ahem! Now, with that ended, are there any major playwrights or other sources of culture in the mortal sense in the outer planes, aside from the horde of them in Sigil?

Given that they're all infinite? Of course.

Say I'm a Prime from a little world dominated completely by one pantheon. I die, and I'm *really* a Valhalla sort of guy, just a perfect fit... But none of the Gods of my world live there.

Do I end up in Valhalla anyways?

Of course not. Valhalla is part of Asgard, the divine realm shared by several Norse gods. You have no business being there.

Did you mean Ysgard?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Oh, well, figured as much. Is there any alternate cosmology

No. I basically hate all of them.

Any particular reason(s) why?

[enderlord99]

Any particular reason(s) why?

Because they exist.

[MilleniaAntares]

Say I'm a Prime from a little world dominated completely by one pantheon. I die, and I'm *really* a Valhalla sort of guy, just a perfect fit... But none of the Gods of my world live there.

Do I end up in Valhalla anyways?
If I do, is there some mechanism where the God(s) I honored in life still get 'credit/power' from my soul, even if I don't end up chilling in their divine realms?
Can it vary from world to world, or pantheon to pantheon?

Typically, if you had faith in a particular pantheon/deity, you'll go to that pantheon's/deity's divine realm, which may or may not contain Valhalla-esque elements as appropriate for that faith.

[Clistenes]

Say I'm a Prime from a little world dominated completely by one pantheon. I die, and I'm *really* a Valhalla sort of guy, just a perfect fit... But none of the Gods of my world live there.

Do I end up in Valhalla anyways?
If I do, is there some mechanism where the God(s) I honored in life still get 'credit/power' from my soul, even if I don't end up chilling in their divine realms?
Can it vary from world to world, or pantheon to pantheon?

Typically, if you had faith in a particular pantheon/deity, you'll go to that pantheon's/deity's divine realm, which may or may not contain Valhalla-esque elements as appropriate for that faith.

And if you aren't religious at all you will go to either the Outer Plane that fits you better (Ysgard in your case) or to some special hell devised by the deities of your world (the Faerunian Wall of the Faithless, for example).

In Tellene the souls of the faithless go to the Plane of Annihilation, a plane-sized sphere of annihilation, but it isn't the gods' fault, and in fact they hate it because said Plane of Annihilation threatens even them. It seems it's the fault of Tellene's Creator God, who used to be some kind of divine troll.

[Tzardok]

That Tellene stuff is knew to me. Can you tell me the basics of its cosmology?

[WalkingTheShade]

Ahem! Now, with that ended, are there any major playwrights or other sources of culture in the mortal sense in the outer planes, aside from the horde of them in Sigil?

Now that I think of it, I remember mentions of artists in either Bedlam or X͈̦̭͈ͨ̈́̋͗̍͜ͅa͊͞õ̳̰̳̠̙ͩͅs̡̖̯͈̣͆̐̋̃, in the 2e book about the Outlands. I might check with books at-hand.

[Beriorn]

During the Reckoning in Baator, I imagine that most of the devil armies were occupied with fighting one another. So what kept the demons from invading the place and taking over? Were there enough forces posted elsewhere? Or was this another of Asmodeus' plots?

[Clistenes]

That Tellene stuff is knew to me. Can you tell me the basics of its cosmology?

Well, Tellene (and presumably its Crystal Sphere) were created by a True Neutral Overgod who was basically a huge troll, so he created a balanced pantheon with several gods of each alignment and gave them appropiate portfolios, so they of course hate each other (he created a god of corruption, debasement, vice and rape, and he created gods of justice, protection and purity). No new gods can be born or created, and only a god or group of gods can kill a deity.

All the gods, their proxies and their dead worshippers live in a demiplane that is divided into sections, each belonging to a deity. Those sections and the divine demiplane grow when they receive more mortal souls, but the divine demiplane is surrounded by another plane or demiplane that is basically a gigantic sphere of annihilation. When mortals die faithless/atheist/hating all the gods, their souls go to that place and are annihilated, which provokes the Plane of Annihilation to grow and eat parts of the divine demiplane.

That means that the gods are afraid of the Plane of Annihilation and have a lot of encouragement to convert mortals to their worship. They will take almost every soul in, even accepting people they don't like or who weren't religious or who weren't really devouted to their portfolios.

At some point a coalition of evil and chaotic deities decided to kill the Overgod and put the blame on one of the Lawful Good deities of justice; the Overgod had created them unable to hurt him, but he thought that it would be fun to watch the divine war, so he faked his death and went into hiding (as I said, he's a huge troll). The lawful and good deities didn't believe the wannabe murderers when they claimed that the god of justice had killed the Overgod, and there was a godswar.

Later, the gods, realizing that their carelesness was going to destroy Tellene and make the Plane of Annihilation grow and gobble their divine home, decided to make new non-intervention rules and focus their efforts into converting all the mortals to their worship.

[afroakuma]

Any particular reason(s) why?

1) Planescape for the win. Anything that is not compatible with Planescape, especially when deliberately trying not to be (Eberron, FR 3.X) is unwelcome.

2) Most of them are poorly-conceived, Great Wheel Lite, or both.

During the Reckoning in Baator, I imagine that most of the devil armies were occupied with fighting one another. So what kept the demons from invading the place and taking over? Were there enough forces posted elsewhere? Or was this another of Asmodeus' plots?

While several Blood War battalions were in the field in the Lower Planes of Conflict at the time, there were definitely armies slated for the War that were put to use in the Reckoning instead. We don't know if there was some other distraction afoot to hold the attentions of other parties; possibly they would have seen it as a diabolical scheme to lure in would-be conquerors and then close the trap on them.

[Beriorn]

Paladine, Gilean and Takhisis live on Celestia, the Outlands and Baator respectively. But what about the other three half-dozen gods? Do they live with the heads of their group? Or somewhere else?

[afroakuma]

Paladine, Gilean and Takhisis live on Celestia, the Outlands and Baator respectively. But what about the other three half-dozen gods? Do they live with the heads of their group? Or somewhere else?

Off we go:

Paladine's realm, the Dome of Creation, is on Solania, fourth layer of Mount Celestia
Mishakal's realm, Healers' Home, is on Amoria, first layer of Elysium
Branchala's realm, Soul of Music, is on Ysgard, first layer of Ysgard
Habbakuk's realm, Zhan the Great Forest, is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands
Kiri-Jolith's realm, Heart of Justice, is on Shurrock, second layer of Bytopia
Majere's realm, Contemplation, is on Amoria, first layer of Elysium

Gilean's realm, the Hidden Vale, is on the Outlands
Reorx's realm, the Anvil of Creation, is on Abellio, first layer of Arcadia
Chislev's realm, Zhan the Great Forest, is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands
Shinare's realm, the Scales of Wealth, part of the Marketplace Eternal, is on the Outlands
Sirrion's realm, the Flame Void, is in Limbo
Zivilyn's realm, Zhan the Great Forest, is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands, though he wanders

Takhisis's realm, Abthalom, the Nether Reaches, is on Avernus, first layer of Baator
Sargonnas's realm, the Palace of Deception, is on Chamada, second layer of Gehenna
Chemosh's realm, Lifebane, is the 142nd layer of the Abyss
Hiddukel's realm, the Broken Scale, is the 333rd layer of the Abyss
Morgion's realm, the Fortress of Disease, is on Oinos, first layer of Hades
Zeboim's realm, Maelstrom, is on Phlegethon, third layer of Pandemonium

Solinari, Lunitari and Nuitari share an Ethereal demiplane, the Lost Citadel of Magic

[DrKerosene]

Conjecture request (I thought about nestled crystal spheres in the last week too...), so ignore anything too tedious/stupid/already answered.

1. What would a nestled (or multiple) crystal sphere(s) actually look like to you?

I believe the distance from the center of the sphere to the outer-most celestial body is, usually, half the distance from the center to the crystal sphere wall. So, I assume there would be a huge scale of size difference, especially if you went through more than one additional crystal sphere "layer".

1A. Would there be any reason that two, or more, crystal spheres couldn't/shouldn't exist "near" each other within a larger one? (Like a spherical bag of marbles)

1B. If you expect there to be some planets between "crystal sphere layers", do you think they (stars or solar systems) would be like satellites to the inner crystal sphere?

2. Would you typically expect there to be (a) habited planet(s) somewhere between the two sphere layers?

3. Assuming a habited planet exists between two sphere layers, would you expect the interior crystal sphere to have a similar, or different, "camouflaging trick" than the outer crystal sphere? (In the way that crystal sphere walls seem to be far enough away to be hidden, or are otherwise actually hidden by a wall of something like "the ground")

4. Would you expect nestled-crystal spheres to have a "special purpose", like a prison substitute? (I'm under the impression planets usually suffice for that, though)

5. Is it entirely inappropriate to suggest that if a physical "edge" of the Prime Material Plane was found, it would be similar to discovering a crystal sphere wall? (Which would be an impossibly large sphere that contains the phlogiston and all the other crystal spheres). Kind of like that episode of Futurama where the characters visit the edge of the universe and look at an alternate one. Though i would expect a PMP Crystal Sphere to be fundamentally different from normal spelljammer system one.

[afroakuma]

Conjecture request (I thought about nestled crystal spheres in the last week too...), so ignore anything too tedious/stupid/already answered.

Oh not this again.

1. What would a nestled (or multiple) crystal sphere(s) actually look like to you?

Who knows? Would vary sphere to sphere. Chances are you wouldn't notice unless you were close to it, and then it would look like any other sphere does.

1A. Would there be any reason that two, or more, crystal spheres couldn't/shouldn't exist "near" each other within a larger one? (Like a spherical bag of marbles)

I can't reasonably speak to that.

1B. If you expect there to be some planets between "crystal sphere layers", do you think they (stars or solar systems) would be like satellites to the inner crystal sphere?

No.

2. Would you typically expect there to be (a) habited planet(s) somewhere between the two sphere layers?

Nested spheres are conjectural, there is no "typical" about it. Most planets in Spelljammer have some form of life on them.

3. Assuming a habited planet exists between two sphere layers, would you expect the interior crystal sphere to have a similar, or different, "camouflaging trick" than the outer crystal sphere? (In the way that crystal sphere walls seem to be far enough away to be hidden, or are otherwise actually hidden by a wall of something like "the ground")

I would expect the distance to be so great as to render the point moot.

4. Would you expect nestled-crystal spheres to have a "special purpose", like a prison substitute? (I'm under the impression planets usually suffice for that, though)

No.

5. Is it entirely inappropriate to suggest that if a physical "edge" of the Prime Material Plane

Yes, it is entirely inappropriate.

[Beriorn]

Terminology question: you got the Upper Planes (Arcadia to Ysgard) and the Lower Planes (Acheron to Pandemonium). But what about Mechanus and Limbo, and maybe the Outlands too? Do they have a name like that for themselves, like the Middle Planes or the Central Planes or something like that?

[Fable Wright]

Terminology question: you got the Upper Planes (Arcadia to Ysgard) and the Lower Planes (Acheron to Pandemonium). But what about Mechanus and Limbo, and maybe the Outlands too? Do they have a name like that for themselves, like the Middle Planes or the Central Planes or something like that?

Axiomatic and anarchic?

[Tzardok]

Primes tend to talk about the Lower, the Upper and the Neutral Planes. Planars usually prefer to use Planes of Law (Celestia, Arkadia, Mechanus, Archeron, Baator), Planes of Chaos (Aborea, Ysgard, Limbo, Pandemonium, Abyss) and Planes of Conflict (everything between).

[Naanomi]

The Marketplace Eternal is an interesting place (Waukeen is my favorite FR power); is there any other examples of Gods from different pantheons working together so closely?

[enderlord99]

Off we go:

Paladine's realm, the Dome of Creation, is on Solania, fourth layer of Mount Celestia
Mishakal's realm, Healers' Home, is on Amoria, first layer of Elysium
Branchala's realm, Soul of Music, is on Ysgard, first layer of Ysgard
Habbakuk's realm, Zhan the Great Forest, is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands
Kiri-Jolith's realm, Heart of Justice, is on Shurrock, second layer of Bytopia
Majere's realm, Contemplation, is on Amoria, first layer of Elysium

Gilean's realm, the Hidden Vale, is on the Outlands
Reorx's realm, the Anvil of Creation, is on Abellio, first layer of Arcadia
Chislev's realm, Zhan the Great Forest, is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands
Shinare's realm, the Scales of Wealth, part of the Marketplace Eternal, is on the Outlands
Sirrion's realm, the Flame Void, is in Limbo
Zivilyn's realm, Zhan the Great Forest, is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands, though he wanders

Takhisis's realm, Abthalom, the Nether Reaches, is on Avernus, first layer of Baator
Sargonnas's realm, the Palace of Deception, is on Chamada, second layer of Gehenna
Chemosh's realm, Lifebane, is the 142nd layer of the Abyss
Hiddukel's realm, the Broken Scale, is the 333rd layer of the Abyss
Morgion's realm, the Fortress of Disease, is on Oinos, first layer of Hades
Zeboim's realm, Maelstrom, is on Phlegethon, third layer of Pandemonium

Solinari, Lunitari and Nuitari share an Ethereal demiplane, the Lost Citadel of Magic

Don't forget to mention that Zhan the Great forest is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands!

[WalkingTheShade]

Don't forget to mention that Zhan the Great forest is on Karasuthra, third layer of the Beastlands!

Mention who?

[enderlord99]

Mention who?

It was a joke. Read the quoted post.

[Jowgen]

The Book of Vile Darkness (the artifact, not the other thing )

It's got a very interesting history from what I gather (e.g. Vecna's invovlement), but more than that I was hoping you'd be willing to go into it's powers and significance.

Like, its says that if a good character looks inside, there is an 80% chance they'll get attacked by an Evil Outsider that night. Is there any fluff to explain how or why this would happen? I mean, why would any given outsider care, and how would they a) know it happenend and b) get to the material so reliably/fast? It all just leaves a lot of open questions is all.