Myrrh, Frankincense, and Steel: Kurald Galain's Guide to the Magus

[zyggythorn]

Don't forget the Falcata: 1d8, 19-20 x3 critical. Exotic weapon

[Sayt]

Don't forget the Falcata: 1d8, 19-20 x3 critical. Exotic weapon

The falcata is good, but most of the magus' damage come from spells, which only inherits the weapon's critical threat range, not critical multiplier, making the falcata inferior to 18-20 threat range weapons

[Kurald Galain]

Ive been planning on a Dex elven Kensai Bladebound(with wakizashi as Black Blade) Magus with a 2 level dip into Lore Warden for 2 bonus feats(3 effectively, considering Combat Reflexes) to be spent on Finesse and Deadly Agility(path of war feat that lets you add dex to dmg on any finessable weapon). 25-point buy, starting level is not yet determined, so the stats on level 1 should be like 12 str\con, 18\17 dex\int. Favored class bonus is obviously extra arcana. The question is the dip worth it?

Combat Expertise, not Reflexes. I'd say the dip is not worth it, as the Magus gets its own bonus feats, and arcana and spells and some other class features that you're all postponing. By level 3, you can easily have finesse and dex-to-damage without a dip.
Also I'd go for lower strength and 14 constitution; the extra hit points and fort save are great for a frontliner, and strength does basically nothing for you.

Also, since im an elf, there are several(4) "Song" arcanas, and one(Song of Arcane triumph, 1 pool point as a swift action on succesful strike for 1d6 sonic dmg\level. Fort save(10+1\2 level+int mod) for half, multiplied on crit and ignores crit resist) looks really-really situationally cool, but eats swift action.

I haven't heard of that one (edit: that would be because it's third-party). But wow, that's ridiculously overpowered for an arcana.

Also, about the Deeds Arcanas. While precise strike may not longer be an option(but for me it is) there is another pickable Deed at 11th level which gives you Evasion(only regular one), Uncanny Dodge and its improved cousin, all in one. Looks kinda cool, if you can afford the spare arcana\feat.

That won't work. When they nerfed Arcane Deed, they took extreme care to make it utterly and absolutely useless. The Evasive deed requires you to have 1 point in your panache pool, and the Arcana explicitly says now that you don't.

[Kekmaster]

Combat Expertise, not Reflexes. I'd say the dip is not worth it, as the Magus gets its own bonus feats, and arcana and spells and some other class features that you're all postponing. By level 3, you can easily have finesse and dex-to-damage without a dip.
Also I'd go for lower strength and 14 constitution; the extra hit points and fort save are great for a frontliner, and strength does basically nothing for you.

I haven't heard of that one (edit: that would be because it's third-party). But wow, that's ridiculously overpowered for an arcana.

That won't work. When they nerfed Arcane Deed, they took extreme care to make it utterly and absolutely useless. The Evasive deed requires you to have 1 point in your panache pool, and the Arcana explicitly says now that you don't.

Well, since i lose arcanas at 3th and 9th levels, i planned to get them through feats, but you also have the point. Also, can the magus' bonus feats be spent on arcanas?

Yep, looks like it(sonic dmg, multiplied on hit, and you can use it after you confirm the threat. nova potential is quite good). But my GM allows just anything that is on the 20pfsrd site, so its okay.

As for the Arcane Deed. The arcana's description says "The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed". Doesnt that mean that he can use the deed if he has at least 1 arcane pool point by RAW? Anyway, my GM agreed i can use deeds with points from arcane pool, so the only problem is finding a slot

[bahamut920]

The description of Arcane Deed on the d20pfsrd website includes official errata that prevents a magus from using the "as long as you have 1 panache point" and "effect is based upon your swashbuckler level" deeds by preventing the magus' arcane pool from counting as passive panache and setting the magus' effective swashbuckler level to 0 (yes, not 1, where it could potentially be useful, but 0, where it can never be useful to anyone). The only useful swashbuckler deeds to take with Arcane Deed at this point are ones which must be used actively by spending panache and do not depend upon swashbuckler level. This remains true even if you have levels in swashbuckler. Like Kurald said, they really took pains to render Arcane Deed completely useless.

As originally written, I think the arcana did need a nerf or two, because it essentially turned the magus into "swashbuckler, but with spells". Paizo definitely went too heavy-handed on the Nerf bat with this one, though. It's like Slashing Grace, which used to be a good way to get Dex-based TWF builds rolling before they changed it to need an empty hand to work. My suggestion would be to ignore the errata, and use some or all of the changes below:
1) Build a specific list of deeds that the magus can poach from the swashbuckler. Avoid deeds that give the swashbuckler their class identity. This prevents the magus from stealing everything that actually makes a swashbuckler a swashbuckler, while still allowing the flavor of the swashbuckling magus.
2) Limit the maximum swashbuckler level that the magus can poach deeds from. 1/2 magus level seems reasonable. This also prevents the magus from being essentially a gestalt character, but is less restrictive overall. I suggest using either 1 or 2, but not both.
3) Deeds which provide a passive effect as long as there is 1 panache point in your pool need to be "activated" for a minute as a swift action by spending 1 arcane pool point, like the enchant weapon class feature. The deed then continues to function for the entire minute, regardless of whether the magus has an arcane pool point remaining in his pool. If the deed has secondary effects which require expending panache, the magus still needs to expend additional arcane pool points to activate them.
4) Deeds which have an effect based upon the swashbuckler class level count as if the magus' swashbuckler level was 1. If the magus spends an arcane pool point as a swift action, his magus level counts as his swashbuckler level for the purpose of one deed selected by this arcana for one minute. If you decide to use both options 3 and 4, I suggest having both options activated by the same arcane pool point.

Obviously, this is all homebrew.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, since i lose arcanas at 3th and 9th levels, i planned to get them through feats, but you also have the point.

Note that you can't get arcana from a feat until you've got three levels of Magus (six for a bladebound). Also, generally speaking getting higher level spells is better than getting more feats or arcana.

[Kekmaster]

Thank you for advices.

Want to bring an interesting trait combo into the light - Metamagic Master + Magical Lineage. It basically lets you use Empowered Shocking Grasp\Frostbite\Snowball and later on Empowered Intensified version as a 1st level spell. Think its worth mentioning.

Also there are a trait and arcana which let you to recover 1 pool point for confirmed critical hit(1\day for trait, 1\4 levels a day for arcana). Is it worth taking, or Extra Arcane pool will do nicely if i have the need?

Also there is a Throwing Magus arcana which lets you recover 1 pool point for every thrown hit without restrictions.

[Kurald Galain]

Want to bring an interesting trait combo into the light - Metamagic Master + Magical Lineage. It basically lets you use Empowered Shocking Grasp\Frostbite\Snowball and later on Empowered Intensified version as a 1st level spell. Think its worth mentioning.

Also there are a trait and arcana which let you to recover 1 pool point for confirmed critical hit(1\day for trait, 1\4 levels a day for arcana). Is it worth taking, or Extra Arcane pool will do nicely if i have the need?

Check the section on traits in the guidebook MM/ML are excellent, the extra pool traits not so much.

Also there is a Throwing Magus arcana which lets you recover 1 pool point for every thrown hit without restrictions.

Restriction of <int> points per day. Basically this exists because enchanting throwing weapons is more expensive.

[Kekmaster]

Ahh, seems ive been not very attentive in my reading. Still, extra int mod pool points a day are great, if youre pool points starved. Throwing may be useful too.

Another question - does the magus' weapon enchantment via arcane pool count towards the +10 enhancement cap? If not, it seems that Bladebound is arguably somewhat inferior to regular magus with regular weapon and Craft Magic Weapon and Armor feat, as he has another +5 enchantments to spare(or even +9, if using Greater Magic Weapon). But it looks like yes, according to the pfsrd site.

And again, thank you for advices and for the guide. Yours and Walter's, i think, really made me play Magus in the first place

[Kurald Galain]

With all the extra abilities it gets, the Black Blade is easily a +8 weapon (possibly a +9) at its top levels. At any level before 18th, it's going to be better than anything you could buy with 1/3rd of your total wealth, and you get it entirely for free.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

In Horror Adventures, magus gets a few new spells and gnomes get an alternate FCB, but that's it, as far as I've read. Now, the new gnome FCB is adding a new illusion spell to the spell list very 2 levels; I'm starting to think that a gnome Puppetmaster could be pretty scary, debuff-wise. Hexcrafter at least gets a plethora of new spells, I think.

[khadgar567]

is there any way to use magus as dedicated tank in caster only party

[Cieyrin]

is there any way to use magus as dedicated tank in caster only party

They're usually a striker class but they can also be a dodge tank if they buff for defense straight out of the box; the Armored Battlemage archetype has access to early heavy armor proficiency, though it's generally not considered a very good trade. Skirnir, which is a shieldmaiden type Magus, is probably the better choice.

[khadgar567]

They're usually a striker class but they can also be a dodge tank if they buff for defense straight out of the box; the Armored Battlemage archetype has access to early heavy armor proficiency, though it's generally not considered a very good trade. Skirnir, which is a shieldmaiden type Magus, is probably the better choice.

what spells and arcanas then

[Kurald Galain]

is there any way to use magus as dedicated tank in caster only party

The obvious question is, what level are you playing at.

The best defensive archetype is Staff Magus. A decent alternative is Skirnir but only at level 8 and up (it's pretty much a trap below that). Spire Defender, despite the name, doesn't actually improve your defenses any, and neither does Armored Battlemage (and that's precisely why it's not a very good trade; note that light armor + dexterity gives you a better AC than heavy armor does).

But you can also pick any archetype you like, and use your spells for defense. Open every combat with casting Shield, Mirror Image, or Displacement. If your Magus is based on dexterity, this will make you a suitable tank.

(edit) Aanother good archetype is Eldritch Scion with the Arcane bloodline. From level four, it gives you a free defensive spell every combat at no action cost; at level eight, it adds Displacement on top of that.

[Cieyrin]

what spells and arcanas then

Flamboyant Arcana for Parry and Riposte, Spell Shield and Prescient Defense for some of the arcanas; Shield, Mirror Image, Blur, Displacement all serve for defensive spells. I'm pretty much just looking at the Defense sections of Kurald's guide for this but that's a good starting place, I think.

[Cieyrin]

Hey Kurald, have you considered other styles besides Kirin for Magi? I think Elven Battle Style and Focus for elven and half-elven Magi is probably worthwhile for Int to damage, since you're not trying to spend a Swift every time you want it.

[Kurald Galain]

Hey Kurald, have you considered other styles besides Kirin for Magi? I think Elven Battle Style and Focus for elven and half-elven Magi is probably worthwhile for Int to damage, since you're not trying to spend a Swift every time you want it.

Well, if you have other suggestions I'd be happy to hear them; there's a lot of styles out there. I'm currently investigating Path of War styles.

The problem with EBF is that it adds int to damage instead of str/dex, not in addition to str/dex. That's just not worth three feats; if you want feats to boost your damage, just grab Weapon Spec.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

The PoW styles need at the very least a stance from the relevant discipline. Meaning a dip into a PoW class (relevant, a list of Int-using PoW classes and archetypes: Warder, Harbinger, Vigilante Stalker, and the Hidden Blade rogue archetype) or two feats into the Martial Training chain. In addition, some require you to expend maneuvers of a certain type to accomplish their effects. I'm currently building a character that is using Cursed Razor style; the first feat adds on a respectable amount of bleed damage vs cursed targets, the second lets him curse EVERYTHING (when combined with another stance, which also adds extra damage per damage die), and the third gives you a free attacks vs an adjacent cursed creature once per turn.

[Kurald Galain]

In Horror Adventures, magus gets a few new spells and gnomes get an alternate FCB, but that's it, as far as I've read. Now, the new gnome FCB is adding a new illusion spell to the spell list very 2 levels; I'm starting to think that a gnome Puppetmaster could be pretty scary, debuff-wise. Hexcrafter at least gets a plethora of new spells, I think.

Let's see. In terms of new spells, the Magus gets two decent blasting effects (Pyro Eruption and Rigor Mortis) and the no-kill-like-overkill Decapitate. Waves of blood is too inaccurate, and the other Magus spells don't strike me as very practical, although spell blending for Horrific Doubles is interesting. Perhaps surprisingly, there are no curse spells in the book other than Curse Terrain.

None of the feats or items in the book are particularly suitable to the Magus either. A special "booo" goes to the vampiric blade, which has a rather simple effect followed by ten lines of restrictions to make it basically useless.

I like the gnome FCB, but most of the good illusion spells are already on the Magus class list. Of course I'm happy to hear suggestions.

[Kekmaster]

Another interesting question - can the Bladebound's Black Blade be made of some special material? Or it is restricted to be regular steel\iron?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Surprised there's only one new curse spell. However, there are rules for 'special' curses, but those aren't really quantitative enough to put in a guide; they're just rules for a GM to allow a spellcaster of most stripes to place a special curse during an intense moment. And no, black blades are just magic steel. With their own item progression and the magus's enhancement, though, they can cut through most any DR.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, you'd expect a book called Legacy of Dragons to have some useful things for the Magus, but it turns out not a whole lot.

Balanced Determination is a good defensive trait.
The feat draconic heritage (chromatic) can give a decent boost to damage whenever you have a swift action to spare. This is banned in PFS for no discernible reason.
For the eldritch scion, the feat Draconic manifestation (esoteric) gives you concealment pretty much every combat, which would be great except that the draconic bloodline is pretty weak, and the arcane bloodline gives you the same ability without the feat.
Finally, the spell scales of deflection is good for your defense.

Let me know if I missed something. I'll update the guide in a couple days, also covering the Horror Adventures book.

[Slithery D]

The feat draconic heritage (chromatic) can give a decent boost to damage whenever you have a minor to spare. This is banned in PFS for no discernible reason.

Probably because it requires the sacrifice of a child.

(A minor what?)

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I think he literally meant a minor, as in somebody underage. That's not something most people have to spare.

Edit: I was looking through the familiars, and I found some good candidates for maulers: both foxes and flying foxes (B5) boost saves (Reflex and Fortitude respectively), and the latter might be the best flying mauler around.

[Kurald Galain]

Edit: I was looking through the familiars, and I found some good candidates for maulers: both foxes and flying foxes (B5) boost saves (Reflex and Fortitude respectively), and the latter might be the best flying mauler around.

Looking over the mauler archetype, its main benefit seems to be the hit/damage bonus. Even with its strength boost it's still not a very effective combatant, and having it on the frontline is a good way of getting it killed. For example, a mauler fox has one attack at +3 / 1d6+3, and an AC of 10.

Sylphs are now PFS legal. Added draconic heritage chromatic feat, balanced termination trait from Legacy of Dragons. Added new gnome FCB; decapitate, horrific doubles, rigor mortis, and waves of blood spells from Horror Adventures.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

It uses your BAB, remember, which is one of the reasons it's better in combat than, say, a witch's or wizard's familiar. And you're buying barding for it, which would help its AC a fair bit; darkleaf leather lamellar should be good enough. The defensive hit is the only downside to the flying fox, and it's one that can be mollified. And a 16 strength is not to be laughed at, considering it's the usual strength score for magus until they get items.

[Kurald Galain]

Somebody pointed out the Mad Magic feat, which makes Bloodrager a viable dip. Also, fixed some mistakes in Chryn's build, and added Eldritch Scion to the ways of getting extra spells.

It uses your BAB, remember, which is one of the reasons it's better in combat than, say, a witch's or wizard's familiar.

Yes, but being a better combatant than a wizard's familiar doesn't make it good. Having 16 strength and medium BAB is not the problem; the problems are having no way to boost damage (all medium-BAB classes have a damage boost such as sneak attack, spell combat, or multiple attacks), and having poor hit points and armor class (14 in darkleaf lamellar is really not enough for a frontliner).

[Ninjaxenomorph]

And natural armor from being a familiar. And from any buffs you give it. You said a familiar is good for flanking, are you retracting that or something?

[Kurald Galain]

You said a familiar is good for flanking, are you retracting that or something?

No, I said:

Yes; the main problem here is that a familiar is rather vulnerable (having low hit points and no particular defenses to speak of). Flanking with a figment is good since it's essentially immortal, but using a valet to outflank is just asking for trouble.