LGBTAI+ #56: Prismatic Spray!

[Lentrax]

Dear Giant,

Please let us know if reposting this image here was alright. If It isn't I will happily take it down.

But thank you so much for the drawing, I know it means a lot to all of us.

Sincerely,
The members of the LGBTAI+ threads.

Welcome to the 56th iteration of the LGBTAI thread!

Notice: This is mostly a support thread. There is an LGBTAI+ Q&A Thread right here.

The AI is for All-Inclusive because we have only so much space in the title, but everyone, regardless of orientation, direction, letter, acronym or chosen astrological symbol is welcome here!

We do, unfortunately, have a few rules. We are not an anarchist state! Or, we weren't until we voted we were? But shush.

1. We are primarily a support thread.
This means that the primary focus should be in helping people here feel better; about themselves, about their lives, about their problems. We are also an education thread, but when helping someone learn involves not supporting, we will default to support - Mostly. We are only mostly human, after all.

All of the other rules are basically precisions of rule #1.

2. If you want answers to triggering topics, spoiler-box or ask them privately.
Triggering topics are those which are likely to make other people feel bad, in any way whatsoever: for instance, rape, violence, bullying and many others may be triggering to some people. If someone, even just that one individual person, has a problem with a topic because it stirs demons best left in their pit, Do. Not. Bring. It. Up. Publicly. Use a spoiler box and think carefully about whether this is the place to broach the topic at all (see rule #1: "We are primarily a support thread.")

If you have questions or need help on something that involves triggering topics, please use spoiler tags and label your spoilers for trigger warnings. When in doubt, put trigger warnings.

3. Avoid discussing politics or religion.
It doesn't matter how much these two topics intersect with our forum topic, they are verboten. Sometimes, hints are...looked over, such as, "Man, in my country being gay sucks," but detail is right out, and even that could be considered willful disregard. Be careful. As the moderators themselves often say, if you aren't sure, don't.

4. Do not discuss moral justification.
No one here is going to discuss whether or not it's Right" or "Okay" to be LGBTAEIOUsometimesY or anything else. It's not topical, it's not relevant. We are, and we are here to cope with that and with the stresses it causes.
And no, my joking acronym doesn't constitute considering this rule less important.

5. Do not post sexually explicit content.
It's against forum rules, it's against decorum, and it will get us shut down pretty fast. What adults do behind closed doors is cool, and allusion is fine. Anything that could involve a diagram, though? No.

6. Avoid unfriendly debates.
Several topics of conversation have created huge arguments that made several people uncomfortable and defied our goal of being a support thread. This is especially true debates of definition. These do not always end well, and are best avoided.

Fight Club, AKA things we do not talk about.
This thread has a past of traumatic experiences which we would rather not repeat, and some topics which have created (in)famous rows include:
- The precise distinction between bi- and pansexual;
- What is or isn't a polyamorous relationship;
- Whether transgender is more correct than transgendered.
- Whether people who have homosexual sex should be able to give blood.
(Other topics may be added to the list.)
Unless you need support or help about this, please refrain from bringing up these topics.

Also, if a conversation that is not about support runs long, spoiler it if possible, even if it is polite.

Glossary of Common Terms

For reference, here is a list of commonly-used words in our community along with their definitions. Please keep in mind that this vocabulary is constantly evolving and that this list may not be complete. Any contributions to the list are appreciated.

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LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*

LGBTAI: LGBT+Asexual/Aromantic/Agender+Intersex/All-Inclusive

QUILTBAG:
Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender/Transsexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual/Aromantic/Agender
G - Gay, Genderqueer

GSRM: Gender, Sexuality, and Romantic Minorities; sometimes only GSM

Where a word below is in italics, that means it has its own entry on the list.

A note on labels: many of these labels are seemingly interchangeable, and for some people they are. However, please do not presume to correct or judge another person's use of a label. Bisexual and pansexual are especially tricky in this regard, as are transgender and transsexual to a lesser degree.
Often the difference in why one person feels one label is appropriate and not another is deeply personal. If you wish to know more it is probably a topic to seek private advice on, from one of the people listed in the next section.

AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth.

Agender: Someone who lacks a gender.

Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.

Androsexual: A person who is attracted to men.

Asexual: A person who does not feel sexual attraction.

Bigender: Someone who identifies as both male and female (or as any two genders) either simultaneously or alternating. See also Genderqueer, Genderfluid

Binary, The: See: Gender Binary.

Bisexual: 1. attracted to two genders; 2. attracted to one's own gender and another gender; 3. attracted to various genders; 4. attracted to people regardless of gender; 5. ask the person who says they're bi what exactly they mean by that. See also Pansexual

Cis: See: Cisgender

Cisgender (CG): Somebody whose gender and sex align.

Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone only after they have formed an intense emotional relationship with them.

Dysphoria: The etymological opposite of "euphoria." A state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction. In this context, generally referring to the discomfort or dissociation Trans* people feel with their own body.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Female: See: Woman

Female-to-Male (FtM): Someone who was assigned female at birth, but is male. (AKA: trans man)

FAAB: Female Assigned at Birth.

Feminine: Something generally associated by society with women.

FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Associated primarily with MAAB Trans people

FtM: See: Female to Male

Gay: See: homosexual.

Gender Binary: The commonly held notion that there are only men and women on two extremes, with nothing in between.

Gender Expression (GE): How one expresses their Gender Identity to society.

Gender Identity (GI): How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other".

Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between different genders.

Genderqueer (GQ): Someone who is not of a binary gender; someone who is neither male nor female.

Gynosexual: A person who is attracted to women.

Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.

Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their own gender.

HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's tend to progesterone, estrogens and androgen blockers, while FtM's take testosterone almost exclusively.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.

MAAB: Male Assigned at Birth.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Man/men: A cis man or trans man. Male.

Masculine: Something generally associated by society with men.

Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender. See also Bisexual

Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.

Presenting: Trans* shorthand for appearing as their preferred gender, regardless of any HRT, SRS or other changes.

Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender primarily, with the asterisk denoting that the trans- prefix could be followed by any number of appropriate words. It also includes other labels, and is a catch-all term for people who identify as something other than their biological sex at birth.

Transgender: Used in reference to a person whose sex(body) and gender(mind) are at odds or do not match. A transgender person can also identify as genderqueer, transsexual, or may use transgender as their only identity.

Transitioning: The process a Trans* person undergoes to move to their preferred gender. Often includes HRT, SRS, FFS.

Transsexual: In common terms the same as transgender above. In medical terms refers specifically to people who wish to transition from male to female or female to male, not accommodating any other options.

SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.

Sexual Orientation (SO): How one identifies who they are attracted to.

Significant Other(s) (SO): Person(s) you are in a relationship with.

Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa. Also a person who feels they do not identify with any other gender identity.

Woman: A cis woman or trans woman. Female.

Allies: Heterosexual-Cisgender people who support equality for sexual, gender, and romantic minorities.

Private Consultation.

We have a list of people who are willing and able to discuss topics that may not be thread-appropriate but are still topical. They can be reached by Personal Message (PM), thought they may not respond immediately, or may be on sabbatical.

Don't be afraid to reach out and talk to them.

Many of us on the list are more than willing to listen to your questions or concerns and will not just lash out in hostility or anger.

Spoiler: Topical Consultants

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Name: Especially familiar with the topic(s) of
Absol197: Gender identity issues.
Philemonite: Relationships, depression.
Astrella: GSRM rights, feminism, trans stuff, Skype.
Chess435: Skype.
Eirala: Trans stuff (esp emotional issues), Skype(no voice or video, however).
Eldest: General/basics, bisexuality, polyamory, pansexuality will Skype(voice if needed, no video).
Enrico Dandolo (Caroline): Trans stuff, mental health, feminism, asexuality, hugs, make-up advice. PM first, Skype chat if asked.
Golentan: Mental health, fluid and questioning sexualities, and issues arising from sexual trauma.
HMS Sophia: Trans stuff (esp hormones).
inuyasha: Shoulder on which to cry, someone to listen.
Irish Musician: PM, Rants/Venting.
KenderWizard: General/basics, gender and feminism, bisexuality.
Kesnit: Trans stuff (FtM), legal issues.
Lea Plath: Genderfluidity.
Lentrax: General/basics, depression, bullying.
Lix Lorn: General/basics.
Lycunadari: Genderqueer and agendered.
Metditto: PM/Skype for L, T, GQ, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), demisexual, feminism, therapy, depression, dissociative identities.
Miraqariftsky: Family issues, transfolk issues, bullying, depression
Musashi: General/basics, asexuality/demisexuality, depression.
Mystic Muse: Skype-y goodness.
noparlpf: General/basics, asexuality, greysexuality, biology, Skype.
Partysan: PM/Skype, polyamory, pansexuality, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), Rants/Venting.
Socratov: Skype-ness.
TaiLiu: General Transgender information, transphobia.
Warkitty: Academic/technical discussions, Make-up advice.
Wormwood74: Transgender legal issues, transgender outside contacts.

Some people are also willing to talk off-board, through Skype or email or other means; this is especially useful if your question involves board-forbidden topics such as religion or politics. Also, we can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional!

And as a parting note, I will say that even though moderators do not read PMs, they are still part of the forum and still subject to forums rules. Non-allowed topics and discussion should NOT be conducted via PM.


Previous Incarnations

Like the Glorious and Unconquered Sun, we have risen, lived, died, and risen anew, with many faces, many voices, many hearts. In this past, much can be found, both good, and bad, should one be brave or perhaps, foolish, enough to seek it.

Spoiler: Past Threads

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1. LGBT people in the playground
   
2. LGBT people in the playground - part II
   
3. LGBTitp - part III
   
4. LGBTitp 4: We are a family?
   
5. LGBTitp - Part Five
   
6. LGBTitp - Part Six
   
7. LGBTitp - Part Seven
   
8. LGBTitp - Part Eight
   
9. LGBTitp - Part Nine
   
10. LGBTAitp - Part Ten
    
11. LGBTAitp - Part Eleven
    
12. LGBTAitp - Part Twelve
    
13. LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
    
14. LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen
    
15. LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen
    
16. LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen
    
17. LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen
    
18. LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen!
    
19. LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen
    
20. LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit!
    
21. LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK!
    
22. LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is
    
23. LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca?
    
24. LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins!
    
25. LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles
    
26. LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles
    
27. LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax
    
28. LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!
    
29. LGBTAitP #29: The Rainbow Outreach Program
    
30. LGBTAitP 30: Free Cuddles (Enquire Within)
    
31. LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles!
    
32. LGBTAitp #32: The Great Plushie Invasion!
    
33. LGBTAitp #33: The Thread at the End of the Rainbow!
    
34. LGTAitP #34: <3!!
    
35. LGBTAitp #35: What Midlife Crisis? :3
    
36. LGBTAitp #36: May Contain Bites!
    
37. LGBTAitP #37: Once upon a time...
    
38. LGBTAitP #38: Once More With Feeling!!
    
39. LGBTAitP #38: Making Your Way in the World Today....
    
40. LGBTAitP #40: Technicolour Partyboat
    
41. LGBTAitp #41 - Imprecise Terminology Supercenter
    
42. LGBTAitp #42: Better Than Skittles/The Meaning of Life!
    
43. LGBTAitp #43 [Insert snappy subtitle here]
    
44. LGBTAIitP #44: Quick, We Need To Vote A New Title!
    
45. LGBTAIitP #45: Rainbow Anarchy
    
46. LGBTAitP #46: I Cast Prismatic Hugs
    
47. LGBTAIitp #47: Weather Control Central
    
48. LGBTAIitp #48: For a Cuddly Tomorrow!
    
49. LGBTAIitp #49: Please check all baggage before boarding the Rainbow Rail Road
    
50. LGBTAI+ #50: Warning: This Thread Has Exceeded its Maximum Awesome Level
    
51. LGBTAI+ 51: Lay That Hammer Down!
    
52. LGBTAI+ 52: Aces High
    
53. LGBTAI+ 53: The Nefarious Rainbow Syndicate
    
54. LGBTAI+ 54: A Full Deck
    
55. LGBTAI+ 55: AKA The Page We'll Get to if I Don't Make a New One

Webcomics that touch on... Well, everything related to the thread.

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Venus Envy. Long dead webcomic. The creator has chosen not to continue it and move forward in life.
Rain. A story of a MtF girl in high school.
Khaos Komix.As the creator puts it(from his site): "A complete GLBTWTFBBQ comic about gender and sexuality. (Trigger warnings for EVERYTHING and nothing is safe for work.)"
Always Raining Here. "Adrian is heartsick, Carter is horny. This is a story about their misadventures as awkward teenagers as they fumble through unrequited romances."
Tripping over you.An awkward blind date leads to better options.
Questionable Content. The LGBTA characters are fairly well done, and not stereotypes.
What's normal anyway. "What’s Normal Anyway? is a comic that discusses the trans male experience through the story of Mel, who takes the big risk of being himself and transitioning from female to male."
Princess. A webcomic.
Twokinds. Keveak: "It generally portrays GRSM matters positively and is quite a nice tale overall."
Misfile The Rose Dragon: "Ash is a young boy who, as a result of a screw-up in Heaven, gets stuck in a girl's body in a life he doesn't recognize, and has to deal with the changes and challenges of his new body while trying to get back his old life. Supernatural hijinks and car racing are involved."
Portside Stories A cute(and recently started) webcomic.
El Goonish Shive A long running webcomic, that I've heard often touches on lgbta relevant stuff.
Validation A Slice of Life webcomic focusing on Ally, a young transger woman, just living her life.
Wildflowers A self proclaimed triggering comic dealing with suicide, depression, dysphoria and more.

I know I missed a few webcomics, and if anyone finds more, feel free to PM them to me with a brief description, and I will add them.

[Comrade]

That's a great image to kick the new thread off with!

[Lissou]

So glad the Giant posted right before we created the new thread. Also glad you reposted the picture.

Congrats to all US Americans. I'm loving the picture. It's especially nice to see V and their mate holding hands despite the current reality of the comic.

For people not in the US, since it is a new thread it may be a good idea to explain it here: the US Supreme Court finally gave their decision about same-sex marriage, and it's now federally legal (although the US is weird and federal law and state law don't always match). What it means is that all states have to recognise marriages performed in other states and marriage licenses from other states, but if I followed correctly they're still not forced to issue marriage licenses themselves (please correct me if I'm wrong).

[golentan]

So glad the Giant posted right before we created the new thread. Also glad you reposted the picture.

Congrats to all US Americans. I'm loving the picture. It's especially nice to see V and their mate holding hands despite the current reality of the comic.

For people not in the US, since it is a new thread it may be a good idea to explain it here: the US Supreme Court finally gave their decision about same-sex marriage, and it's now federally legal (although the US is weird and federal law and state law don't always match). What it means is that all states have to recognise marriages performed in other states and marriage licenses from other states, but if I followed correctly they're still not forced to issue marriage licenses themselves (please correct me if I'm wrong).

You are in fact wrong. All states must begin to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples ASAP, called out in the second paragraph of the ruling.

[Psyren]

Glad we finally got a FAQ on those conflicting RAW

Country-wide errata issued?

[The Giant]

I have no problem with the image being reposted.

Also, since I need to play the authority figure, too: Let's remember to keep discussion away from explicitly political topics while celebrating.

[Coidzor]

You are in fact wrong. All states must begin to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples ASAP, called out in the second paragraph of the ruling.

Not all of them are going to do so without having to be compelled to do so, of course, as news out of Texas and individual counties here and there seems to indicate.

But, all in all, good news.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Just in case you guys were curious, I was in NYC today and decided to take a detour to Greenwich Village. I lost count of the number of rainbow flags, news media vehicles, and revelers of all ages, genders, and orientations. Additionally, everyone is making their way to the Stonewall Inn. The atmosphere is one of complete jubilation.

[Ifni]

Yup. If I remember correctly, there used to be a law (the "Defense of Marriage Act") which prevented the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages, but that was struck down by the Supreme Court a few years ago. The current holding (the one-sentence summary) is:

"The Fourteenth Amendment requires a State to license a marriage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was lawfully licensed and performed out-of-State."

EDIT: And so very much ninja'ed by everyone else. But yes. The picture is beautiful, and it's a very happy day

[Lentrax]

I have no problem with the image being reposted.

Also, since I need to play the authority figure, too: Let's remember to keep discussion away from explicitly political topics while celebrating.

Thank you much, oh mighty artist/author.

A truly powerful gestalt combination indeed.

We should probably put a warning label on he spray itself though... "Do not touch or save vs:... Whatever."

[Lentrax]

Let us move into this uncertain future, this next fronteir, but let us doi t together not separate. Let us seek a new world, right here in this one, where on way is better than any other. No God be better than another, and where killing in the name of a higher power is the act of a little man hoping to convert the words of living gods into dogmas of hate.

[Dire Moose]

I was really happy to hear about the decision and Rich's drawing was the icing on the cake for it.

Considering that I'm an American currently living in Canada and trying to stay here permanently, though, I'm not sure if I should be giving or receiving congratulations.

Well, in any case, CONGRATULATIONS! *hugs everyone*

[Heliomance]

Yup. If I remember correctly, there used to be a law (the "Defense of Marriage Act") which prevented the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages, but that was struck down by the Supreme Court a few years ago. The current holding (the one-sentence summary) is:

"The Fourteenth Amendment requires a State to license a marriage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was lawfully licensed and performed out-of-State."

EDIT: And so very much ninja'ed by everyone else. But yes. The picture is beautiful, and it's a very happy day

Holy crap, they actually amended the Constitution? O_o Isn't that a really big deal?

[Athedia]

Holy crap, they actually amended the Constitution? O_o Isn't that a really big deal?

Not actually an amendment. The ruling was more a defining of the intent of the Constitution. Amendments change parts of it, like letting women vote.

[BladeofObliviom]

Er, to clarify, they were referencing the 14th Amendment's language as part of their legal basis, not passing a new amendment. The 14th Amendment was passed in 1868, as one of three civil rights amendments shortly after the American Civil War.

(On a side note, the American Supreme Court does not have the authority to amend the Constitution; that would be a power of Congress instead. The Supreme Court merely interprets the law.)

[Lissou]

You are in fact wrong. All states must begin to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples ASAP, called out in the second paragraph of the ruling.

Ah, I see. We'll see how that goes.

Holy crap, they actually amended the Constitution? O_o Isn't that a really big deal?

No, no, the 14th amendment already existed. They just ruled that it applies here.

So that makes it how many countries now?

[Rain Dragon]

Eee! The picture is so cuuute!

Congratulations, America!

[Spanish_Paladin]

Congratulations people, it was, is and will be always good and now it is lawfull

[Lord Raziere]

To celebrate I shall post up a few pictures of my own:

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[noparlpf]

Weird time to bring it up, probably, but I've been thinking for a while of doing the ace ring as a tattoo because I lost the habit of wearing it while my hand was in a cast. So that might be a thing I do this summer.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, I had a dream last night I had breasts. Now, I have had such dreams before, and they are generally good. I was happy in those dreams, ecstatic even, but this time, this time I was nervous and afraid of anyone noticing that fact that I had breasts. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but . . . yeah, they're dreams. In some way, they reflect my state of mind, at least subconsciously. Also, I haven't received any word back about an endocrinologist appointment, and it's been about a month.

[Irish Musician]

Lots of love.....all of the love........so much love......

Oodelally, Oodelally......Golly what a day.....

[137beth]

I have no problem with the image being reposted.

Also, since I need to play the authority figure, too: Let's remember to keep discussion away from explicitly political topics while celebrating.

That was a completely awesome image

[Sobol]

Congratulations to all fellow Americans.

[Loreseeker]

Don't post here much... Or at all really (GITP lurker)... Decided to come out of the shadows to gratz fellow Americans.

Maybe one day I can find a cute guy and take advantage of it... Most of the guys I meet are immature brats ... Ah well.

Yay for all!

[Metahuman1]

Ok, congratulations all!


I grant, I have some concerns with some of the tidbits of phrasing in the majority opinion on the ruling, but that is most likely just minutia that can and will be ironed out before the years so I'm not to worried about it. (Governments have this knack for phrasing things in ways that make me concerned. It's likely nothing.).

But I do sincerely approve of the baseline intention and action, and congratulate all relevant parties whom feel there getting a measure of happiness with/because/with the help of this.



Yeah, don't normally post in this topic, so, just came in to say that.

[Lentrax]

By the way.

Something to add, since it has been an issue in the past.

If there is anything anyone feels I need to add or edit about the first post, please let me know. I just copy/pasted the previous one and added thread 55 to the list of previous threads. I also took the liberty of adding Validation to the webcomic list.

Just let me know if I need to do/fix anything up there.

[Grytorm]

Hmm. Good. Hope for mankind after all. And I was wondering, who is Bandanna making out with?

Okay I am posting here for two reasons.

First it is getting annoyingly hot and my families water might be out tomorrow. Hopefully the pressure will come back tonight.

Secondly I'm going to a new college, which means new ID Card. Which means selecting a gender for it. Which is scary because I am still in the uncertain-made very few steps toward anything. There is a transgender option but that is scary to, everything is scary! (Everything is scary is an exaggerated statement intended for levity. Everything is scary, just not to scary). Although if the water is back on tomorrow it should be a perfect day to hopefully hang out in my skirt I think.

[Loreseeker]

Secondly I'm going to a new college, which means new ID Card. Which means selecting a gender for it. Which is scary because I am still in the uncertain-made very few steps toward anything. There is a transgender option but that is scary to, everything is scary! (Everything is scary is an exaggerated statement intended for levity. Everything is scary, just not to scary). Although if the water is back on tomorrow it should be a perfect day to hopefully hang out in my skirt I think.

Good luck with that. I'd say go with whatever makes you feel comfortable, taking into account your particular circumstances.

I never feel comfortable with those things. I worry I'm too genderfluid sometimes, since what's right one day may not be right next week. Makes everything very uncomfortable for people I found. If I wasn't so aware of it, I'd probably wind up right back in the closet on the topic of my gender to make it easier on folks, lol.

[Miraqariftsky]

@US Queerfolk:
Congrats to y'all.

@Grytorm:
Fair winds to you and good luck with that.

@Everybody:
Hope all's well there, comrades?

Hugs for those who want or need 'em, coffees or icecreams for those who like some distance.

@Ma'am Lentrax:
Kudos and thank you for putting up the new thread, ma'am.
And might you put me up in that list for consultation as well? By my experience methinks I could cover "family issues, transfolk issues, bullying, depression" decently. Thank you.

@The Giant:
Hail, sir. Well done, well done indeed.