Saga Edition Thread III: Saga Academy

[LibraryOgre]

We've hit page 50, I figured it was time to start a new one. Have Blaster, will travel, and all that. Feel free to restart any discussions you have going.

Since Hyena started the first one out with some useful links, I thought it might be good to bring those over.

I've noticed there is no SWSE discussion thread on this forum, yet SWSE seems to be rather popular. I felt oblieged to correct this outrageous mistake.

List of links you might find useful:
List of every single feat provided with the number of the page.
Same for talents
Bonus feats for every class

More useful links:

Saga Edition Errata
The Omegadex: Page Reference for every species, class, feat, talent, piece of equipment, creature, character, or anything else in SAGA with a page reference.

Now man your posts, and may the Force be with you.

[Yora]

According to KotOR Campaign Guide pg 70, "sonic damage cannot be deflected with a lightsaber. If a weapon deals bonus sonic damage in addition to its normal damage and is not purely an energy attack, the attack can be deflected by a lightsaber, but the target still takes the sonic damage regardless (just not the weapon's normal energy damage) if the attack would normally hit." Therefore, if an attack deals damage in multiple forms, blocking one does not block all.

I think this is rather the exception to the rule, not how it normally works. Don't know where it is in Saga, but pretty much all d20 games have it somewhere that negating the weapon damage from a poisoned blade also keeps the target from being poisoned.

[Alejandro]

What sort of weapon would that be? A melee weapon that also does sonic damage, that isn't hurting the wielder?

[LibraryOgre]

What sort of weapon would that be? A melee weapon that also does sonic damage, that isn't hurting the wielder?

Maybe one that creates a narrow cone of sound that surrounds the blade? Or a "Thundering" weapon... once you hit with it, it explodes with sonic damage.

[Nerd-o-rama]

More useful links:

Saga Edition Errata
The Omegadex: Page Reference for every species, class, feat, talent, piece of equipment, creature, character, or anything else in SAGA with a page reference.

[Philistine]

There's also the Official FAQ Compilation.

[Getsugaru]

I was wondering whether or not it would be best to ask for help creating stats for an EU Force artifact in this thread or if it would be better to make a new thread. Can anyone tell me whether or not something like that should be a new thread or not?

[Philistine]

That kind of question is exactly what this thread is for.

[Getsugaru]

Well then, I am currently working on recreating the Sith Artifact known as the "Yoke of Seeming." I've figured out a lot of it, but I'm having trouble with one of the functions the artifact provides. From the Wookiepedia page:

...Haazen acquired it and installed it as one of his cybernetic parts. It significantly increased his connection to the Living Force and allowed him to cloud other Jedi's senses, hiding his true intentions from them. In addition to clouding his intentions, the Yoke transmitted to all Force-users the sense of himself that Haazen wished to convey. So while other Jedi could accurately see his true disfigured form, they would not react too viscerally to it. At his own preference, Haazen could also minimize its effects as he did during a discussion with Lucien Draay, during which he wanted to convey revulsion.

I'm uncertain of how to do the intention-clouding and sense of himself parts. Any suggestions? For comparison of strength values, I'm trying to be on par with the Fell Star, Mask of Nihilus and Muur Talisman artifacts that are already statted.

[Philistine]

"Intention-clouding" sounds like it would allow the user to spoof UtF checks to Sense Force or otherwise determine the user's Dark Side score (or even whether the user has a Dark Side score). The other kinda sounds like a disguise effect, along the lines of the Clawdite racial ability but refluffed as "you can see the telltale stigmata of the Dark Side marring (the user)'s face when you focus your attention on it, but somehow (the user) still comes across as non-threatening/helpful/friendly/whatever."

[Getsugaru]

So a Use the Force-based disguise along the lines of Deceptive Appearance, but as a full round action for no penalty?

[Gamgee]

Awww I don't like this topics title at all. It doesn't follow progression... grrr...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh, I ran the first session of Dawn of Defiance last Monday. With a few tweaks to get people more involved, everyone had a really good time.

This was also my first session of actually running SAGA, though, and one thing I noticed was that the CL 1 enemies tended to go down in a single attack (or two from the Jawa who insists on using an ion pistol on organics because it's his Cultural Heritage or something). This was in part due to people buying expensive, high-damage blasters and being smart about getting around cover, (I am very tactically proud of them), but the only bad guys who survived long enough to do any damage shot, respectively, an NPC, another NPC, and finally the Trandoshan Soldier with a mounted blaster cannon. That did half his HP in damage in one attack, so hey, that was at least nicely D&D.

Anyway, I think I might beef up Stormtrooper HP a little from what's written in the module to make them last a bit longer, or at least focus on more corridor-y encounters where it's harder to move around cover. If nothing else, I'll make my Noble burn some of his Wealthhax on keeping a stock of grenades.

[Mando Knight]

The idea behind the basic stormies having only 10 HP is that they do go down in one good hit (even a standard blaster pistol has an average of 3d6, which is enough to knock a trooper down even if it doesn't kill him). I'd use the Heavy Stormtrooper and Clone Trooper stats for the slightly-better troopers, if you'd like pre-made stats.

[kreenlover]

Indeed. In Saga basically anyone with solely NPC class levels is going to be murdered in one or two hits. NPCs don't get the survivability that those lucky enough to take PC class levels do.

On another note, I've been statting up some stuff from the Force Unleashed II. Since people occasionally post stats of things here I figured I'd link what I have so far. Been posting it on a blog, so, yah.

http://dmagain.blogspot.ca/

Hope you guys might find that helpful. If you see something that should be changed, lemme know.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The idea behind the basic stormies having only 10 HP is that they do go down in one good hit (even a standard blaster pistol has an average of 3d6, which is enough to knock a trooper down even if it doesn't kill him). I'd use the Heavy Stormtrooper and Clone Trooper stats for the slightly-better troopers, if you'd like pre-made stats.

Really, I guess any of them I want to survive for more than a round just need to hunker down, or I need to add more. OHKOs fit the setting and the encounter design, I just want the encounters to last a couple rounds longer. Adding a couple more mooks to each encounter should work too...I have five and I believe the modules are very specifically balanced for four under-optimized characters, like D&D pre-writtens.

[Seatbelt]

Encounter balance in Dawn of Defiance is pretty awful. But in general combat for the first two chapters is super lethal for everyone and then the party quickly starts to out-pace the ability of NPCs to even hit them, nevermind do meaningful damage.

And if you have a force user? Forget about it?

[Alejandro]

You can always have the stormtroopers do things like use smoke grenades and cover (or both at once) to make themselves a lot harder to hit. But what others said is true.

I tried asking this as its own thread but got no reply, so I will try here in case some players are also old Star Wars D6 players:

I started running a SW D6 game again; played large campaigns of it years ago. There are some things our group wants to change, like:

Why are Melee Combat and Melee Parry two separate skills, when Lightsaber gets to be a single skill used for both attack and block? We want to just have a single skill, Melee Combat, and use it for both.

Lightsaber Combat: The power is too bulky to use, especially for a 'low level' Jedi that may not even be able to activate the power, and the multiple action penalties may actually make them worse, not better, at using their lightsaber. What is a good alternate way to handle that power?

[Philistine]

... the Jawa who insists on using an ion pistol on organics because it's his Cultural Heritage or something.

As long as he's aware that ion damage is quartered against organics (see the 12th question asked and answered in the 4th post of the thread there).

On the bright side, it sounds like you can largely discount his character for the purposes of balancing encounters - effectively bringing you back to the expected four-PC party.

[Mando Knight]

As long as he's aware that ion damage is quartered against organics (see the 12th question asked and answered in the 4th post of the thread there).

Yeah, it's not how the book reads at all, and is a huge part of why ion damage is worthless, but that's apparently the official answer...

[Philistine]

Yeah, unfortunately the book isn't very clear on how ion damage works - the two "half damage" lines are in two different places and it's not immediately obvious that they refer to two separate operations (though the errata that changes "full damage" to "normal damage" in the Ion Pistol description helps a little).

[Xaragos]

One of my players wants to design and craft his own armor. I haven't found any real rules for that per say, so I wanted to see if anyone has dealt with this request before. Here is what the player wants to create:


Venom Assault Armor (Military)

-Heavy armor, 38kg
-2 upgrade slots
-Ref +10
-Fort +4
-Max Dex +1

Part powered armor, part armored space suit, Venom Assault armor provides ample protection from hostile attackers and environments. Additionally the wearer can activate the armor's limited jumps jets as a swift action to move at normal speed in zero-g. The jets are not powerful enough to lift an armored trooper in normal gravity. The suit also adds a +2 equipment bonus to the wearers strength. However, the wearer must have the armor proficiency (heavy) feat to use either the jets or gain the bonus to strength. The wearer may survive up to 24 hours in the vacuum of space or other hostile environmental conditions.

Upgrades
-Tech Specialist +1 upgrade slot
-Massassi Manufacture +10% base armor price
-Helmet Package
-Weapon Mount (1 upgrade slot) Rotary Blaster Cannon
-Internal Generator (1 upgrade slot)
-Secret Compartment (1 upgrade slot)

How would you price this and what DC's for the crafting?

[Philistine]

One of my players wants to design and craft his own armor. I haven't found any real rules for that per say, so I wanted to see if anyone has dealt with this request before. Here is what the player wants to create:


Venom Assault Armor (Military)

-Heavy armor, 38kg
-2 upgrade slots
-Ref +10
-Fort +4
-Max Dex +1

Part powered armor, part armored space suit, Venom Assault armor provides ample protection from hostile attackers and environments. Additionally the wearer can activate the armor's limited jumps jets as a swift action to move at normal speed in zero-g. The jets are not powerful enough to lift an armored trooper in normal gravity. The suit also adds a +2 equipment bonus to the wearers strength. However, the wearer must have the armor proficiency (heavy) feat to use either the jets or gain the bonus to strength. The wearer may survive up to 24 hours in the vacuum of space or other hostile environmental conditions.

Upgrades
-Tech Specialist +1 upgrade slot
-Massassi Manufacture +10% base armor price
-Helmet Package
-Weapon Mount (1 upgrade slot) Rotary Blaster Cannon
-Internal Generator (1 upgrade slot)
-Secret Compartment (1 upgrade slot)

How would you price this and what DC's for the crafting?

Yeah, there really aren't any rules for that. "Crafting" as such isn't really A Thing in SWSE. If I absolutely positively had to do come up with something for it, I suppose I might start with a look at the rules for the Starship Designer feat in Starships of the Galaxy for inspiration.

Luckily, in this case the Venom Assault Armor is already statted on p140 of the Legacy Era Campaign Guide: the cost is 17,000 credits, with Military availability adding another 20% licensing fee onto the top. Then Tech Specialist and the Massassi template add another 1,700 each. Unluckily, the actual armor only starts with one upgrade slot. A one-upgrade-slot alternative to the Weapon Mount+Internal Generator setup would be installing a Ready Harness to carry the RBC and a Power Generator, the latter possibly Miniaturized. This would also allow much greater endurance for the cannon, as the Internal Generator only stores an equivalent charge to four power packs - that's just eight shots from the rotary cannon! After that, the Internal Generator recharges at the rate of one power pack equivalent (two shots from the RBC) per hour. The Ready Harness+Generator option also saves a few credits and a few kilos of weight, not that the player seems to be worrying about either of those.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Personally, if he wanted to scratch-build it (to get around the licensing fee, say), I'd use the rules for building objects under Mechanics on page 30 of the FUCG - this is what I plan to do with my wife's character in my campaign, since she wants to play kind of a scavenger/crafter as well as covering most of the technical skills. That means the cost (whether for materials or purchasing) is as listed in the book, and the craft DC is (for powered armor) probably a 40, or a 25 if you're feeling very generous. I recommend the player pick up some schematics and, preferably, a copy of the armor he can reverse engineer, for -10 DC each.

As for hit points (for determining the number of checks it takes to craft), I don't think armor HP is listed anywhere since you can't normally attack worn armor, but for Heavy Powered Armor I'd eyeball it as at least 20 (equivalent to a weapon-size Huge, creature size Medium weapon). And, of course, you double that because it's Medium, so if he rolled the maximum possible progress on each check you'd be looking at 5 checks total.

Now, since the materials cost the same as the object's base price (plus templates, I would assume), of course all this rigamarole is only really worth it if you either 1) can't buy it straight up and don't want to pay black market markup and/or 2) have the Scavenger feat that lets you Macguyver some of the cost away. It also means you don't have to buy/forge a license in order to get it, but you'd still be in trouble with the law if you got caught without one.

[Mando Knight]

Adding an upgrade slot is not something Tech Specialist can do by RAW, and an upgrade slot is more valuable than the +1 bonuses that Tech Specialist is normally able to provide (though perhaps a Superior Tech could do so).

The cost and DC of buying and installing each component is listed in Scum & Villainy: those are all 1-slot upgrades, so they take a DC 20 check and one hour to install.

For Massassi manufactured Venom Assault Armor... how does he get his hands on it? Venom Assault Armor is advanced GA tech, while Massassi are a rare, relatively-primitive species. Gear that has a template already gets marked as Rare (p. 76 of KotOR), but advanced armor made by a people who would never have had the knowledge or technology to build it? DC 40, and the Massassi template should only be available at all if the character has taken the time to study Massassi construction techniques. If he's inventing something with the capabilities of Venom Assault Armor, there aren't going to be any schematics available for the full -10 DC.

(Now, even though VAA is probably the best heavy armor in the game and it probably wouldn't be too crazy to let your player obtain it with the Massassi template since otherwise the heavy armor proficiency feat is pretty lackluster, from a lore standpoint it just doesn't make much sense. Also, Massassi heavy armor is terrible if you don't have the Strength for it)

[Philistine]

Adding an upgrade slot is not something Tech Specialist can do by RAW, and an upgrade slot is more valuable than the +1 bonuses that Tech Specialist is normally able to provide (though perhaps a Superior Tech could do so).

This wasn't part of the original writeup of the Feat in Starships, true- but see the "Tech Specialist" sidebar on p48 of Scum & Villainy, under "Device Traits." Adding one upgrade slot to an item is totally legitimate by RAW.

[Mando Knight]

This wasn't part of the original writeup of the Feat in Starships, true- but see the "Tech Specialist" sidebar on p48 of Scum & Villainy, under "Device Traits." Adding one upgrade slot to an item is totally legitimate by RAW.

So it is. I'd missed that sidebar when I was double-checking those rules.

[Closet_Skeleton]

For Massassi manufactured Venom Assault Armor... how does he get his hands on it? Venom Assault Armor is advanced GA tech, while Massassi are a rare, relatively-primitive species.

Massassi are Sith. Massassi armour is Sith armour, you don't just go running around in Sith armour. You don't just handcraft Sith armour without having skill in Sith Alchemy (even the primitive Massassi had access to the force and working Sith Alchemy facilities).

While by RAW Massassi template is only limited to simple weapons and any kind of armour, allowing it for powered armour but not powered weapons makes no sense.

Massassi aren't just rare, they're extinct post KotOR era. Freely mixing campaign books in Star Wars is a bad idea.

[Getsugaru]

Massassi are Sith. Massassi armour is Sith armour, you don't just go running around in Sith armour. You don't just handcraft Sith armour without having skill in Sith Alchemy (even the primitive Massassi had access to the force and working Sith Alchemy facilities).

While by RAW Massassi template is only limited to simple weapons and any kind of armour, allowing it for powered armour but not powered weapons makes no sense.

Massassi aren't just rare, they're extinct post KotOR era. Freely mixing campaign books in Star Wars is a bad idea.

I am afraid you are quite wrong sir. First of all, Massassi are a subspecies of the Sith species. The Dark Jedi who came to Khorriban and subjugated them took their name; thus "Sith Armor" and "Massassi Armor" are completely different things (especially when you realize that "Sith Armor" is an actual type of armor in SAGA found in the Jedi Academy Training Manual). Second, the Massassi were believed extinct by scholars by the time of the Rise of the Empire, but that they may well have survived on long forgotten Sith worlds. In addition, there are several times in Star Wars lore where the Sith species has popped back up, usually in the form of a handful of individuals (or a large group with Lignan Ore). As such, one cannot truly state that they were only alive during the KotOR era (which, depending on your interpretation, may not even be including the TOR era where they once again popped up).

And freely mixing campaign books can be so much fun! In the case of KotOR, I've played in a couple groups set in the Clone Wars or later where the "antiquated techniques and gear" from that book have been more enjoyable than what we'd have received if the book was banned. As long as you don't do something ridiculous or unfitting to the campaign's story (i.e. be a munchkin and ignore any semblance of plot), it allows your story to head in all sorts of exciting new directions.

[Bobb]

I'm looking for usable talents for a high level gunslinger build. I don't have Galaxy of Intrigue, Unknown Regions, or Galaxy at war (the big one).

If someone could help me track down descriptions of these talents that are usable for a game I'd be eternally grateful.

Talent
Autofire assault (soldier)
Backstabber (misfortune)
Bullseye (gunslinger)
Champion (soldier)
Ferocious assault (elite trooper)
Full advance (soldier)
Ghost assailant (scout)
Grizzled warrior (soldier)
Nimble dodge (soldier)
Pistol duelist (gunslinger)
Reckless (soldier)
Stinging jab (soldier)
Swift shot (gunslinger)
Warriors awareness (Soldier)
Warriors intuition (soldier)

EDIT: I also want to say that there is a feat that allows you to boost your weapon for the encounter by using a standard action but I can't find it.