Saga Edition Thread III: Saga Academy

[Barzotten]

@philistine:

1) except the ct killer, which comboes are available?

So for nos starting class is soldier.

2) i think that sinergy is better , so i' ll Try to be an ace pilot.

3) joke Char aren't a problem, but i think i'll take either human or gungan ad a race.

Now ill have to plan the build, Andy maximizing tips?

[Jayngfet]

Just confirming one thing: S-Foils are a wholly cosmetic thing in Saga edition, correct?

It just seems really weird since the Ginivex has a similar ability with it's fanblades, but the iconic X-Wings don't have anything of the sort.

[Jallorn]

According to Wookiepedia Legends, S-Foils can serve a number of purposes including: greater surface area for heat dispersion, atmospheric stabilization, and increasing weapon range, while still keeping the ship small and light, and reducing protrusions when those functionalities aren't needed, thus keeping the ship from being damaged.

[Jayngfet]

According to Wookiepedia Legends, S-Foils can serve a number of purposes including: greater surface area for heat dispersion, atmospheric stabilization, and increasing weapon range, while still keeping the ship small and light, and reducing protrusions when those functionalities aren't needed, thus keeping the ship from being damaged.

I mean stat wise. There's no real way to show in the system that you can get them open or closed.

[Malifice]

I mean stat wise. There's no real way to show in the system that you can get them open or closed.

Its really just fluff bro.

[Jayngfet]

Its really just fluff bro.

Well not any more than the solar sail is. But the S-Foil is one of those iconic sections and it's something half the iconic ships have. Locking the S-Foils is one of the most iconic things in a starwars space battle.

[Malifice]

Locking the S-Foils is one of the most iconic things in a starwars space battle.

No-one is stopping you from doing it are they?

On your turn only respond to the DM if he adresses you as 'Red five' and when he does, tell him youre putting your shields up, and locking your S foils in attack position.

Stay on target...

[LibraryOgre]

Deploying your S-Foils gives you a +1 to strike and a +1 to manuever rolls, as you have a wider field of fire and better spread on your thrusters. However, closing your S-Foils gives you a +1 to sublight speed and is necessary to enter hyperspace.

[Greymane]

So I'm running a SWSE game whenever someone can't attend our normally schedule game of 5E, and I'm not very learned in the system yet. I'm running Dawn of Defiance, and one of the players, a hovering... astromech... droid thing, sliced into Sel Zonn station's main computer. By just continuing to improve his access over and over again.

Is that application of Use Computer just spammable, over and over again? Because he optimized his Use Computer to the point where failure was highly unlikely, and I'm worried this could be an issue in the future.

[Getsugaru]

@Greymane:

I am afraid the answer is not a clear-cut black and white; it's gray. You see, the skill notes that if you fail by 5 or more while attempting to improve a hostile computer, it locks you out for 24 hours (among other things). This is the only mentioning in the entire section of it taking a direct action to prevent you from trying again. There is, however, and indirect case. If the failure occurs while the computer is no better than friendly by 5 or more, it moves a step down; if in doing so it becomes indifferent or unfriendly, it contacts the administrator about the attempted access. In this case it becomes a roleplay situation: if the player(s) can somehow fool either the computer or the administrator into believing the access attempt was supposed to be authorized (such as if they had already persuaded/tricked the admin in charge or spoofed the login to be someone else who should be authorized), the administrator may tell the computer to override and revert to good standing; should it happen twice in a row (or if the players did not attempt to make their access look legitimate), the admin would likely instruct the computer to lock out all access until they arrive and address the scene (and maybe to contact security). In other words, it becomes a scenario for the players to try to overcome unless the GM decides one way or the other.

While this isn't a direct solution, you could try bumping up the computers' will saves, lowering the initial attitude for the player, both, etc. to try and make the challenges more challenging for that player; there is no rule that states you cannot adjust an encounter (a lot of people seem to feel the storm troopers go down to quickly even at level one and therefore use clone trooper stats instead to bump up the challenge a bit). If said player then gets mad about it, you can pull them aside and tell them that you just wanted to give them a challenge or deal with the situation in the manner you think is best (I do not personally know the people you are playing with, so your results and how to deal with them may vary).

Unfortunately, the only other items in the SAGA rulebook that could be seen as relative to the situation are at the start of the chapter under Trying Again and a single line in the organic variant, Persuasion: Change Attitude. The former states "in general, you can try a skill check again if you fail, and you can keep trying indefinitely. Many skills, however, have natural consequences for failing that must be accounted for." The latter states at the very end that "You may attempt to change the attitude of a given creature once per encounter." You could Rule Ø that the same applies to Use Computer, but that may or may not go over well with your players. One key thing, however, that may be of use to you is that each use of Use Computer: Improve Access takes a full-round action. Therefore (unless he optimized the heck out of improve access), you could add an element of being discovered; a routine check in by guards, cameras getting cycled between channels (or, for even more hacker fun, between frequencies), patrols sweeping sectors, etc. If he takes too long trying to improve his access, someone may notice their presence in the location and proceed to investigate.

I know all the stuff I've said has been RP solutions instead of concrete rulings from the books, but as far as I am aware, there is no official rule that prevents them from doing what they did. Still, I hope something among all this gray was of use to you.

[Jayngfet]

So I'm looking over the rules for Shadow Droids and I have a question: If a Shadow Droid targets a capital ship then can they demoralize everyone aboard or do they need to do it one target at a time?

[Mando Knight]

Target is singular. Since the droid cannot target the vehicle itself with a mind-affecting effect, it must choose one crew member to demoralize, and it must be able to establish communication with that target.

[Jayngfet]

Fair enough. I guess if one has a squadron of them even smaller frigates are easy to take care of.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So I'm running a SWSE game whenever someone can't attend our normally schedule game of 5E, and I'm not very learned in the system yet. I'm running Dawn of Defiance, and one of the players, a hovering... astromech... droid thing, sliced into Sel Zonn station's main computer. By just continuing to improve his access over and over again.

Is that application of Use Computer just spammable, over and over again? Because he optimized his Use Computer to the point where failure was highly unlikely, and I'm worried this could be an issue in the future.

I'm running Dawn of Defiance for my home face to face group, and my wife is playing a slicing-optimized Jawa. Aside from the usual politics of someone you share a bed and a mortgage with playing in your RPG game, I have noticed a few points where Use Computer checks have made things easier than they should be. However, that can be mitigated by making sure you use the rules as written.

1) Most central computer systems are going to start at Hostile, no matter what terminal or data port you're using to access them, unless you have a code cylinder/password from that Imperial bureaucrat you just shot in the head. That's a -10 to the initial access check. Even after Skill Focusing in Use Computer, that means you're looking at 1d20+Int+1/2 level+maybe 2 from equipment trying to hit the computer's Will Defense. It's doable, but remember that failure means Security getting summoned (a combat or Stealth encounter) and failure by 5+ locks out the connection they were using.
2) Even after you improve it away from Hostile, you still need 2 more checks to get to Friendly (at -5 and -2) and a final one to get to Helpful, so players beware blowing through limited resources like Force Points
3) Most computers are going to have a Will Defense of 17-20. If you want something that's impossible to access without blowing a Destiny Point and multiple Force Points, feel free to say it's got central bank-level security (Will Defense 30), making it basically impossible to make non-Hostile until you get to very high levels.
4) At any point you find reasonable (such as failing multiple Improve Access checks in a short period of time), remember you can have a sysadmin come in and automatically override whatever the slicer is doing with routine actions ("power off remote terminal Q") unless the slicer already has a Helpful attitude from the computer. If the slicer already has a Helpful attitude, the sysadmin can do the same thing with opposed Use Computer checks.
5) Contrary to what I made the mistake of establishing in my game, there's no such thing as wifi in Star Wars unless you say there is. Slicers need to find a terminal or a dataport, and unless they and the target both have HoloNet access (unlikely in the time period of Dawn of Defiance), they need either a physical connection to the terminal they're trying to hack, or to establish communications with it remotely through, say, a starship's communications systems. Last time I had my wife's character try to remote hack a capital ship, I just had them turn their radio off and it was done with. EDIT: and actually, after checking Starships of the Galaxy, there's not actually any rules that say you can establish communications if the other guy isn't willing to pick up. Best to do your hacking while the enemy captain is gloating over a hailing frequency, then.

Also, related protip: say all the droid enemies DoD likes to throw out have Locked Access. You don't know pain/hilarity until you have a Jawa crawling all over a battle droid to hit its off switch.


Also note that all of this is regarding central god-computers of places like Imperial military bases, Darga's palace, Cloud city, Imperial Star Destroyers, etc. Slicer characters can and should be able to access more limited systems that don't automatically have a Hostile attitude, like (most) elevators, security doors, public access terminals, datapads, etc., so that their skills have a use. Just a use other than "all your base are belong to me."

[Mando Knight]

Also note that all of this is regarding central god-computers of places like Imperial military bases, Darga's palace, Cloud city, Imperial Star Destroyers, etc. Slicer characters can and should be able to access more limited systems that don't automatically have a Hostile attitude, like (most) elevators, security doors, public access terminals, datapads, etc., so that their skills have a use. Just a use other than "all your base are belong to me."

I'd use a sliding DC to represent the difficulty: the more targeted your intentions, the easier the check. Want to force a blast door closed for a half hour? Sure, relatively easy check. Access an encrypted file? A little more difficult, depending on your initial access privileges. Designate yourself a Star Destroyer's new Captain without the proper code cylinder? You'd better believe the main computer alerts ship security to the location of a mutiny in progress.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'd use a sliding DC to represent the difficulty: the more targeted your intentions, the easier the check. Want to force a blast door closed for a half hour? Sure, relatively easy check. Access an encrypted file? A little more difficult, depending on your initial access privileges. Designate yourself a Star Destroyer's new Captain without the proper code cylinder? You'd better believe the main computer alerts ship security to the location of a mutiny in progress.

That kind of fits with the general Easy/Medium/Hard skill DC paradigm they started on in splatbooks, particularly in regards to skill challenges. It makes sense in terms of "are you trying to become god of a big mainframe or are you just trying to spoof an electronic door's key input?" One of them will have more robust security and take more time to electronically sweet-talk than the other.

[Philistine]

In addition to the above, you may occasionally want to just declare that some information (and/or control of some functions) cannot be gained by slicing. Maybe because it's restricted to a secured, isolated (that is, not wired into any outside networks) system. (Notably, "lots of independent, stand-alone systems" is another possible remedy for the "I hack the Star Destroyer, LOL" issue: it's Star Wars Saga Edition, not Star Trek Saga Edition, so major warships really shouldn't be run by a gigantic God-Computer which operates everything from waste disposal to fire control, leaving them horrifically (but hilariously) vulnerable to electronic subversion. ) Maybe whatever the party Slicer is looking for isn't even on a computer at all. Basically, you want to keep in mind that the PC Slicer is not the first slicer in the history of the setting, so NPCs who have anything worth taking probably also take rudimentary security precautions against slicers taking said things - which is something an awful lot of the players of slicer-type characters seem to forget/ignore in their desire to play "My Little Slicer: Use Computer Is Magic." Though of course it's possible that I've just been unlucky on that score.

The heart of the issue is that SWSE doesn't handle Use Computer at anywhere near the same degree of abstraction as combat. (Indeed, you might very well generalize that statement to "d20 systems" and "skills.") You need to be able to shift gears in a hurry from "combat crunchy" to "skills soft," and handle each one differently, because if you treat UC rolls like attack rolls in combat, there's not much in the rules to stop a heavily UC-optimized slicer-type from trivializing your entire game.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yep, and I definitely have done that myself. Running Dawn of Defiance, there are two modules in a row coming up for me where the main MacGuffin is data explicitly stored on computer (and like 50% of the modules involve crashing some form or another of Imperial Base which logically could have a central computer). In both cases, keeping the game going is simply going to be a matter of saying "there's an air gap, you physically have to be able to put your hands on the relevant mainframe to get this data".

"Of course they're called mainframes and not servers, this is Star Wars."

[Philistine]

An excellent reference for what slicing can and cannot do in the setting is presented to us right on the screen in A New Hope, when R2-D2 penetrates the Death Star's systems. Having done so, he can figure out how to deactivate the tractor beam; he cannot remotely deactivate it - that requires someone to sneak into a maintenance shaft and throw a physical switch. He can find out about the Princess, where she's being held and that she's scheduled for execution; he cannot change the detention block guards' orders to have her brought to Han and Luke. And once the rescue mission has been discovered, he can interfere with the timing of automated maintenance processes and open low-security doors; he cannot cancel a station-wide alert - much less open all the hatches and void every compartment in the entire Death Star into space, or trigger anti-boarding countermeasures everywhere Han and Luke aren't, or remote pilot the whole thing into the sun!

[LibraryOgre]

Really good point, Phil. I'd say that internal networks are used for communication and some limited automation, then, but a lot relies on physical access for actual control... which would, if you think about it, fit into the general galactic paranoia about droids.

Now I kinda want to run a SW game set during the opening days of a Butlerian Jihad...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Really good point, Phil. I'd say that internal networks are used for communication and some limited automation, then, but a lot relies on physical access for actual control... which would, if you think about it, fit into the general galactic paranoia about droids.

Now I kinda want to run a SW game set during the opening days of a Butlerian Jihad...

Wouldn't that just be NJO?

[LibraryOgre]

Wouldn't that just be NJO?

Sort of the opposite, in fact. A Butlerian Jihad would be a period where the galaxy turns against robots and computers...

Man, I kinda want to do this.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Sort of the opposite, in fact. A Butlerian Jihad would be a period where the galaxy turns against robots and computers...

Man, I kinda want to do this.

What I mean is, the destruction of (silicon-based) technology as HERESY (*BLAM!*) was a big part of the Vong's philosophy. Not as big as the Force being HERESY (*BLAM!*), as I recall, but it was there.

That said if you were to implement this idea as, say, a PbP game, I'd be interested.

[Yora]

Spoiler: Heresy?

Show

[jamaul13]

Hello all. I was told that if I ask nicely I could ask someone to check over a character for me. I am new at PtP and also in SWSE. I have included the Big 16 and my character. Send me a pm and let me know the fixes if anyone is willing. Thank you for anyone who helps.

Big 16:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...igh-level-game

Zark:
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=722236

[Nerd-o-rama]

0) That's an invalid link because the automatic post parser put an ellipsis in there. Is it this one?
1) Class bonuses to defenses don't stack, they overlap. Your class bonuses should be 4/2/0
2) You don't have the Armored Defense talent, which means your Ref Defense is set to your armor's bonus (+8) rather than your level (+12). I highly recommend getting that as a talent. You are literally not a Mandalorian if you don't have armor, and your armor is a trap at higher levels unless you have AD.
3) Exotic weapon proficiency pertains to a single Exotic Weapon, not the group in general, unless you have the Elite Trooper or Gladiator talents that allow you to treat Exotic Weapons as a group (which would be a good fit for a Mando, given their often eclectic equipment preferences)
4) Also, you don't appear to be carrying an exotic weapons (or lightsabers), so those are both kind of a waste of a feat right now.
5) Double Attack requires you to specify a Weapon Group or single Exotic Weapon. Also, the penalties from using it and using two weapons stack, so if you tried to make a full full attack, you'd be looking at a -7/-7/-7 until you get some Multiattack Proficiency going. Build advice rather than fact-checking: I recommend doing one or the other unless you want to spend all your feats and talents on the "has a million attacks" gimmick.
6) This is also a build advice thing rather than fact-checking, but: you seem to have the right number of feats and talents, but you seem a little unfocused right now. Are you trying to smash? Grapple? What kind of weapons are you using? How many slugthrowers do you need without any feat or talent support going into pistols or rifles, anyway? I'd focus on one weapons group (probably Advanced Melee Weapons) with some blasters for backup.
7) I'm really jonesing for Saga right now, are they still recruiting?

Oh and: 8) I have no idea whatsoever how upgrade slots on armor are supposed to work, so ask your GM what it has room for. EDIT: If I do have the right game it looks like Amazo answered that and there's only two slots rather than what looks like four you have filled.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Oh and: 8) I have no idea whatsoever how upgrade slots on armor are supposed to work, so ask your GM what it has room for. EDIT: If I do have the right game it looks like Amazo answered that and there's only two slots rather than what looks like four you have filled.

By default Armor has 3 upgrade slots unless otherwise noted in the description. Medium Beskar has 2 free upgrade slots.

Armor Plast is 0, Radiation Shielding is 1, Vacuum Seals is 0, and I'm not sure how many slots a Jet Pack is worth.

Edit: Jet Pack is in the core book, and only costs credits. No upgrade slots required.

[Mando Knight]

By default Armor has 3 upgrade slots unless otherwise noted in the description.

By default, armor has one upgrade slot, plus another one if it's powered or Mandalorian armor. Including the errata, this is how page 37 of Scum& Villainy should read:

"Every stock piece of equipment has a single unused upgrade slot. Medium armors have two free slots, and heavy armors have three. Unlike most armor, powered armor has two free upgrade slots. Armor is defined as powered armor if it is specifically described as such, of the word power (or some variant thereof) appears in the armor’s name. A few other models of items also include more upgrade slots as stock issue, though this is rare and specifically noted."

The upgrade slot values of everything in the KotOR book itself should be held suspect, as the rules for the system were in some state of flux up until S&V was published some eight months later (and even then, the rules for armor slots apparently during the final draft), and should be adjusted to fit the current system.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Is that errata? I didn't bother to check for errata. I was just going by that page in the book.

[Mando Knight]

Is that errata? I didn't bother to check for errata. I was just going by that page in the book.

Including the errata,

Specifically, I struck out the part that was removed, then underlined its replacement. Even with the old text, though, it was only heavy armor that had 3 upgrade points. The text for beskar'gam actually does use the errata text ("Though not powered armor, the armor has two free upgrade slots" implies that it gets the bonus normally only applied to powered armor), which points to the text in page 37 being part of an earlier draft that was missed by the editor when tidying it up for publication.