Murder at the Academy

[Elenna]

Murska, I agree that the argument for lynching you is weak, but IMO it's stronger than the argument for anyone else. Is there anyone you're suspicious of?

[Murska]

I want to lynch Xihirli, for the following reasons:

1: Self-preservation. He is voting for me and has a vote on him.
2: Information gathering. It might be that the reason CG was lynched yesterday was because someone wanted Xihirli to not be lynched. Since nobody posted any reasons for such an attitude, if it exists, then I will assume it to be because of private information. That is something only the Masons and the Wolves have, and there are more Wolves than Masons.
3: Bandwagoning on me without a good reason. His reasoning reads "I need a reason to put this vote here, but I can't say what my actual reason is (or don't really have any better ideas), so I will make up a reason on the spot." This is something that Assassins would want to happen. I'm not entirely confident in this particular reason, however, as an Assassin would most likely try to cover themselves by saying something like "I'm not sure Murska is a wolf, but he's the best option we have" or similar.

These reasons are ordered from most to least weight in my decision-making.

EDIT:

Ramsus: Professor Transmuter/Abjurer

Also, I've studiously explained at great length why I've done literally nothing suspicious whatsoever, and in fact have done something that is anti-suspicious and should make me more likely to be Town. Lynching someone you have no clue about is a better choice than lynching me.

Also also, why are you focusing on the completely beside-the-point thing about the resurrection and AMS? That's an obvious null-tell, unless someone can prove I've used AMS on Elenna - an Assassin me and a Professor me would've both done the exact same thing in this case, and so it has zero distinguishing power. Aside, I guess, from the fact that if I were an Assassin, I'd have killed Elenna and asked any Assassin with any power-swap or power-negation powers to use one on CG to waste the attack. I assume you can use powers on corpses, right?

The nightkill looks pretty random, which makes me think that it might've been redirected by someone. If a Town-sided player has used redirection in a way that would get Tolomei killed, please come out with it and tell us. The wolves already know, so it's information we should have.

[Ramsus]

No, you can't target dead people with anything other than Necromancy. Asked Vecna last time around.

Edit: Ok I think Elenna needs to tell us what her other specialty is now.

[Vwulf DeMarcus]

I'm going to follow Murska here and vote Xihirli, for two reasons. One, Xihirli's most recent post seems somewhat forward to me (though I'll admit I've noticed this work before, as I follow other WW games), and two, I trust Murska for some reason.

[Xihirli]

Actually, you can also use Grave Robber on them. But that's irrelevant.
Somewhat forward? Is that supposed to be a bad thing somehow?

[Thematthew]

Per the powers section, grave robber doesn't target, it takes a book from someone who dies that night.

[Luizeu]

I can be very wrong about what I am about to say but: Everything Murska has done so far brings absolutely no suspicion on him. Elenna's and Xihirli's reasons were just off.
At the same time Elenna has proven herself to be exactly what she was claiming to be and Xihirli's participation has put him too much on the SPOT. I tend to think this is not an assassin behavior.

On the last game in the fórum "Return to Transylvania" , village was massacrated, I think it tells us that we have to be on the top of our game to catch them.
I suggest we start on the wagon that killed a villager on D1, there must be an assassin in that bunch. Thats why I voted on one of them.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I suggest we start on the wagon that killed a villager on D1, there must be an assassin in that bunch. Thats why I voted on one of them.

Let's not be hasty there. There were two abstentions D1, and only four votes on that wagon total. There were a lot of places the assassins could've been hiding, and plenty of possible worlds with no assassins on my wagon. In a world where only 50% of the votes went to the two main wagons, there's a lot of space for assassins to be on neither.

Hmm. I want to think on this some more, but right now I'm actually considering your own behavior a mite suspicious. You're very eager to jump to conclusions about a wagon that didn't involve you.

[Luizeu]

Im all ears to your plan.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Let's tabulate things so far. The wagons are much narrower this time.

Murska (4): Ramsus, Thematthew, Elenna, Xihirli
Xihirli (3): Lex-Kat, Murska, Vwulf DeMarcus
Thematthew (1): Luizeu

Abstaining: CarpeGuitarrem, Queen of Thorns, Duck999, Nonayer
Dead: Tolomei

~~~

D1 wagons...
Duck999 - 1 (Lex-Kat)
Ramsus - 1 (Nonayer)
Lex-kat - 1 (Vwulf DeMarcus)
CarpeGuitarrem - 4 (Tolomei, Elenna, Xihirli, Thematthew)
Thematthew - 1 (Murska)
Xihirli - 2/3 (ThePhantom, CarpeGuitarrem, Murska?)
Elenna - 1 (Luizeu)
Murska - 1 (Ramsus)

~~~

The most notable thing, to me, is that 3/4 of the people currently on the Murska wagon were on my wagon D1. Also interesting is that the current Xihirli wagon is almost totally dissimilar to the D1 Xihirli wagon. The sole similarity is the presence of Murska's vote. Well, we have another day, so...

Thematthew, if you had to pick someone besides the Murska wagon, who would it be?

[Thematthew]

I would go with Lex-cat, honestly. Something bugs me about how she's acting.

[Duck999]

I would go with Lex-cat, honestly. Something bugs me about how she's acting.

Can we get what it is that bugs you?

Xihirli to me seems more suspicious than Murska, as I don't really see what is suspicious about Murska.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I would go with Lex-cat, honestly. Something bugs me about how she's acting.

But Lex-Kat and Murska are the first two votes on the Xihirli wagon. Do you really suspect them both that much?

[Thematthew]

My reasons for Lex (sorry, autocorrect is kicking my ass) are that she seems significantly less active here than what appears to be normal for her, which is suspicious. Similarly I have reservations about Queen of Thorns, but she may AL so it's not as pressing in my mind.

As for the Xihirli situation, he and I were in contact with Tolomei, which actually makes me less suspect of him since it would be ridiculously stupid to reach out to someone and then immediately kill them.

I'll post more later when I have a chance to expand on my suspicions, but I have to head in to work now.

[Lex-Kat]

You mean Lex, right? I mean Lex-cat is one thing, but Led? Now you're just getting mean.

[Luizeu]

I'll be voting for Murska since I told Xihirli I would and I don't see any good reason not to.

Ramsus, is there any good reason to vote on Murska? I would like to hear from you.

[Elenna]

I want to lynch Xihirli, for the following reasons:

1: Self-preservation. He is voting for me and has a vote on him.
2: Information gathering. It might be that the reason CG was lynched yesterday was because someone wanted Xihirli to not be lynched. Since nobody posted any reasons for such an attitude, if it exists, then I will assume it to be because of private information. That is something only the Masons and the Wolves have, and there are more Wolves than Masons.
3: Bandwagoning on me without a good reason. His reasoning reads "I need a reason to put this vote here, but I can't say what my actual reason is (or don't really have any better ideas), so I will make up a reason on the spot." This is something that Assassins would want to happen. I'm not entirely confident in this particular reason, however, as an Assassin would most likely try to cover themselves by saying something like "I'm not sure Murska is a wolf, but he's the best option we have" or similar.

These reasons are ordered from most to least weight in my decision-making.

EDIT:

Ramsus: Professor Transmuter/Abjurer

Also, I've studiously explained at great length why I've done literally nothing suspicious whatsoever, and in fact have done something that is anti-suspicious and should make me more likely to be Town. Lynching someone you have no clue about is a better choice than lynching me.

Also also, why are you focusing on the completely beside-the-point thing about the resurrection and AMS? That's an obvious null-tell, unless someone can prove I've used AMS on Elenna - an Assassin me and a Professor me would've both done the exact same thing in this case, and so it has zero distinguishing power. Aside, I guess, from the fact that if I were an Assassin, I'd have killed Elenna and asked any Assassin with any power-swap or power-negation powers to use one on CG to waste the attack. I assume you can use powers on corpses, right?

The nightkill looks pretty random, which makes me think that it might've been redirected by someone. If a Town-sided player has used redirection in a way that would get Tolomei killed, please come out with it and tell us. The wolves already know, so it's information we should have.

Looks like Thematthew's latest post addresses reason 2, at least a little. I started the CG wagon because he already had a vote on him and he wasn't me. Everyone else on it was apparently communicating privately. Could be wolves in their QT, could be villagers who just reached out to each other. Although wolves probably wouldn't admit to talking privately.

Xihirli's logic for voting Murska was strange, but not so much that it seems like a wolf rather than an inexperienced and chaotic player. I'd expect a wolf to say something more like "I agree with what other people have said about Murska", passing off the blame for the lynch.

The comment about using powers on corpses looks townish. If Murska was an assassin, he probably would have at least brought up the possibility of killing me, and someone would probably have mentioned that only Necromancy works on corpses. IIRC that was stated in-thread in the first game.

No, you can't target dead people with anything other than Necromancy. Asked Vecna last time around.

Edit: Ok I think Elenna needs to tell us what her other specialty is now.

You're very insistent on asking for claims. Can you tell us your specialties?

I can be very wrong about what I am about to say but: Everything Murska has done so far brings absolutely no suspicion on him. Elenna's and Xihirli's reasons were just off.
At the same time Elenna has proven herself to be exactly what she was claiming to be and Xihirli's participation has put him too much on the SPOT. I tend to think this is not an assassin behavior.

On the last game in the fórum "Return to Transylvania" , village was massacrated, I think it tells us that we have to be on the top of our game to catch them.
I suggest we start on the wagon that killed a villager on D1, there must be an assassin in that bunch. Thats why I voted on one of them.

There's a decent chance that both D1 wagons were on a villager. In that case, I'd expect the assassins to be somewhat evenly distributed between the two.

My reasons for Led are that she seems significantly less active here than what appears to be normal for her, which is suspicious. Similarly I have reservations about Queen of Thorns, but she may AL so it's not as pressing in my mind.

As for the Xihirli situation, he and I were in contact with Tolomei, which actually makes me less suspect of him since it would be ridiculously stupid to reach out to someone and then immediately kill them.

I'll post more later when I have a chance to expand on my suspicions, but I have to head in to work now.

Interesting. I'm going to reiterate Murska's question here: if anyone may have diverted a kill to Tolomei, please say so. Or at least message CG, since we know he's town.
Xihirli, can you confirm?

Removing my vote from Murska. Nobody is really jumping out to me as wolfy. I'll vote for someone later today.

[Murska]

Now that self-preservation is not such a large pressure on me anymore, I'm willing to look at other options to lynch. However, work's keeping me a bit busy right now, so take this as a declaration of intent to change my vote if it won't get me killed and there are good arguments presented for other people, not as intent to look for other suspects to lynch at least for now.

[Xihirli]

At this point I'm close enough to dying that I'd be willing to back off if enough people stop trying to get me killed.

I don't know if it's "wolfish" to say this or not, but in every game so far people have thought of me as suspicious for reasons I don't understand, and every time I have been town.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Okay, so here's a thing to consider: Xihirli has had half of the people in the game voting for him on D1 or D2. That's enough to make me a bit testy about the way things are going there.

I'm moving to Lex-Kat. I think a D2 early vote on Xihirli for very little reason is something that would be a pretty safe wolf move, since it was common knowledge that Xihirli already had been drawing heat from people.

[Ramsus]

Luizeu, well...
1) Because Xihrili asked me to, actually broke out of his "chaotic stupid" routine to try and provide a logical reason for it, and we're not going to keep him around if we never ever under any circumstances let him live past day three.
2) Because Murska's behaving exactly the way he always behaves, which involves saying a whole lot that sounds persuasive but actually adds up to a whole lot of no usable information we didn't already know if we thought about it for two minutes and stuff nobody can actually prove.
3) Murska's claimed as something that's incredibly difficult, possibly nearly impossible, to actually prove and if the assassins have access to both those specialties it's going to be trouble to find all of the assassins. If he's Good he'll never be trusted and if he's Evil we're letting him off the hook for a claim he knew we couldn't prove and that'd just be sad.
4) When Xihrili asked me to not vote for him, he did so by fully claiming his role to me and two other people at the same time. This seems like a rather risky play and if the Assassins were going to do it, they'd probably have chosen someone less likely to say something they really shouldn't on accident. Which would probably be anyone else.

@Elenna: Unless we're going to have absolutely everyone claim, I don't see the point in having me claim. Nobody is currently trying to lynch me by some miracle and I'd rather save giving out information that the assassin's also get until it's absolutely necessary. You however have already claimed a role and one specialty that is reasonable to assume you have access to, the only thing you claiming your other specialty does at this point is gives us information which we can use to determine if someone is lying or not. However if you feel it's really a big deal for you to tell us publicly, just tell it to Carpe as I'm sure by now there's a network and at least some people will be able to use that information and we'll know he's not lying when he confirms you actually told him.

Edit: If the Lex wagon is going to be a thing, I'll be keeping my vote on Murska until I see we're not at risk of winding up with Xihrili getting lynched because people didn't switch votes in time before the day ended. (Which is what, 12 hours from now?)

[Elenna]

@Ramsus: I told Carpe my other specialty at the beginning of this day. He can confirm. I don't want to post it in thread, because I don't want the assassins to know who to kill if they want to get rid of a certain type of power. If a lot of people think I should claim, though, I can do that.

Re Murska's claim, if anyone successfully used a power on me last night, please say so.

[Murska]

Xihirli: If you move your vote off of me, I will move mine off of you.

Ramsus: During my years of interacting with human beings, I've found that the vast majority of things I find blindingly obvious are not obvious at all to most people (it hit me hard when I first read the Art of War), and in fact some things other people find obvious are not obvious to me. It's exasperating sometimes, and I try to avoid explaining things in huge detail because when it's done to me I find it patronizing and annoying if I already understand almost all of what's being said. However, I try to keep in mind that whoever is doing the explaining does not know what is obvious to everyone else and therefore has to explain it all.

Since I haven't seen any arguments by anyone that would have any merit as to why I would be suspicious at all, and I've provided what amounts to very light evidence towards me being a Professor I'm somewhat unable to think of much else to do. I've even claimed, as you asked. If I wasn't personally involved, which I am, I would estimate (as a biased viewpoint) that my unbiased estimate of my own role would be around 60% Town. Tell me, what do you want me to do that will alleviate your suspicions of me and let you look at others until hypothetically some new evidence surfaces?

[Ramsus]

I'm not unwilling to explore other options. I just need a reason. Carpe suggesting someone is an acceptable reason since that probably involved more than just Carpe thinking about it and we know we can trust him. And I already stated my condition on switching to Lex. It would help your case of course if you moved your vote before Xihrili does since... well from what we know of his character (I mean his personal character not his in character character which wouldn't make a lot of sense since we haven't RPed in this game since original day 1) he'd certainly honor an agreement to both switch votes. You'll probably still remain my default lynch target for the rest of the game though, given what your claim was. Though hopefully that won't matter and Carpe will have more information to work with and suggest targets.

[Murska]

Well, right now I will only be up for lynch if I do switch my vote, while he will be up for lynch regardless, giving him the fair incentive to switch before me. In addition, not switching after agreeing to do it would probably be a bad idea no matter who you were, given that it's a public agreement that everyone can see.

[Xihirli]

Luizeu, well...
1) Because Xihrili asked me to, actually broke out of his "chaotic stupid" routine to try and provide a logical reason for it, and we're not going to keep him around if we never ever under any circumstances let him live past day three.

"Stupid Evil," Ramsus. Though they intersect a lot.

@]Murska: I have one more vote on me than you have on you, meaning that moving my vote off of you will gain me nothing even if you are true to your word. As of right now, your death is my best chance of survival. Once that changes I'll be happy to adapt with it.

And yes, for this game I'm trying to play against alignment, just to see if I can actually be effective if I'm not actively trying to sabotage my own efforts.

[Ramsus]

The problem with that logic Xihrili is that you have now reached that tie first, so you're the one who will get lynched unless another person votes for Murska or Lex becomes the lead lynch target.

[Murska]

Xihirli: Keep in mind that if we both switch our votes to someone else, such as Lex-Kat, that's a lot of momentum their way.

[Thematthew]

I'm willing to change my vote to Lex-kat if others are.

[Xihirli]

Alright, you've convinced me.
Lex-Kat, I contacted you along with Tolomei, Thematthew, and Ramsus. They responded and are working with me to find assassins. You didn't.