Player's Gonna Play: A Bard's Guide

[EvilAnagram]

I always plan out stuff even if I'm Level 1, just to have a general plan to make sure I'm not screwed later down the line. I definitely plan to stay flexible based on the party's needs (as I will be primarily a support-y, skillmonkey, utility player with some blasting power), but I like having a plan to at least start with. Flexibility will definitely come into play regarding when/where I take the rest of my Bard levels vs Warlock levels (the only thing for sure is I will go B1/W3, and then from there it depends).

It's fine to have an idea for what you want it to look like at high levels. My point was simply thay the most important thing is that you have a strong character for levels you will spend the most time playing (5-12).

I want to stick around in Bard for the majority of my character for the support-y nature and the extra spell slots as well. My main concern was my exit point for Warlock, as I see 3 (for the Tome and 2nd level slots instead of 1st), 5 (for 3rd level spell slots and an extra Invocation), and now even 6 (for Pact ability 2, though unlikely I will since I like Inspiration d12 and 8th level spell slot) as potential exit points. My biggest concerns included losing a feat/2 Ability Points and not obtaining a 9th level spell slot.

Don't worry about your ninth level. It's rarely a major game changer. And while normally ASIs are a big concern, your only real concern should be on Charisma and maybe getting Resilient Con. Other than that, ASIs won't be terribly important for you, so you can miss a few. If you feel like you're lagging on level four, stick with another Warlock level for the ASI. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

My other large concern was my Invocations which I feel are dumb, but I like the choices. Devil's Sight (120' bright light darkvision in magical and non), Book of Ancient Secrets (Tome gets 2 1st level rituals and I can add rituals up to Level 3 [assuming I go Warlock 5] into my book), and Agonizing Blast (+Cha modifier to EB? Yes please!) are my main three atm. Idk, I just feel like Devil's Sight is a dumb choice, but I find the uses for it amazing (especially combined with Darkness and having Adv on all my attacks + EBs and them having Disadv on all their attacks).

Devil's Sight is great for precisely the reasons you mention, and ritual casting is solid. The thing with 5e is that there are very few trap options, so if you can think of a fun or cheesy use for something, it's probably worth taking.

Also wasn't sure about which patron to pick; will probably go Fey though.

That's probably the best choice for you.

Would you say Con would be better for my build overall than Wis? Like I said, this is my first time playing so I wasn't sure how much I was going to be hit vs the extra Wis

Con and Wis are both very common saves, but concentration makes Con more important to casters.

Thanks again for being awesome!

I'd say you're making me blush, but frankly I'm a narcissist.

Kidding aside, I'm glad you enjoyed the guide, and I hope you have a great time playing!

[Polarthief]

Alright, I went ahead and made some small adjustments, the biggest being swapping WIS and CON to 12 and 13 (respectively). Feel like I'm so ready for this now :D

Don't worry about your ninth level. It's rarely a major game changer. And while normally ASIs are a big concern, your only real concern should be on Charisma and maybe getting Resilient Con. Other than that, ASIs won't be terribly important for you, so you can miss a few. If you feel like you're lagging on level four, stick with another Warlock level for the ASI. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

Glad to hear that because my Cleric friend wouldn't shut the hell up about it, plus I wouldn't even get it until 19 or 20 anyways. Besides, I'd end up taking Wish and then probably rolling the 33% chance of never getting to use it again. No thank you!

So CHA I want to 20 I'm guessing. Alright. That would mean two ASIs on CHA (to bump it to 20) and then I only get 2 feats (Resilient and something else, Resilient also bumps CON to a 14 for +2).

Also, in all my main choices for MC (17/3, 15/5, etc), I'd only be missing one ASI. Definitely don't plan on losing out on 2.

Devil's Sight is great for precisely the reasons you mention, and ritual casting is solid. The thing with 5e is that there are very few trap options, so if you can think of a fun or cheesy use for something, it's probably worth taking.

I'd say Phantasamal Force sounds like a trap to me! :D Even the PHB says I can make a fake bridge and their mind has to come up with ways that the bridge still exists. Being part-Illusionist is just awesome.

That's probably the best choice for you.

Wasn't sure even though it's a very minor choice. I guess the PBAoE Fear/Charm is pretty nice, on top of having some pretty good spell choices for Lock if I wanted to swap out FF/Sleep from Bard to Lock or something. I was considering Fiend for Fireball to be my 3rd Warlock spell (Level 5), but I could just pop a Magical Secret on it.

I'd say you're making me blush, but frankly I'm a narcissist.

Kidding aside, I'm glad you enjoyed the guide, and I hope you have a great time playing!

Well, s'all about that CHArm. ;) Thanks again and I can't stop thinking about it! :D

[RickAllison]

I suppose this brings up an interesting question; since Bards and Sorcerers can switch a spell each level, could one switch out a burned Wish spell for another spell known if they haven't reached 20 yet?

[Polarthief]

I suppose this brings up an interesting question; since Bards and Sorcerers can switch a spell each level, could one switch out a burned Wish spell for another spell known if they haven't reached 20 yet?

Or what if they did reach 20? Are you just stuck with -1 spell?

[RickAllison]

Or what if they did reach 20? Are you just stuck with -1 spell?

Well that one is a "Yes" unless you have a lenient DM

[PoeticDwarf]

Nice guide; agree with most stuff. Extra attacks should be blue or sky blue, song of rest no more than purple, but I agree mostly

[Polarthief]

Nice guide; agree with most stuff. Extra attacks should be blue or sky blue, song of rest no more than purple, but I agree mostly

I think the reason for EA being black is because it and Battle Magic step on each other's toes. You can't use both in one go, and it's arguable that a spell will end up doing a lot more for you than one more weapon attack (obviously depends on the weapon and spell). It's good, but eh.

Whatever's between black and blue, I'd put it at that. Until you get Battle Magic though, yeah it's pretty blue.

[EvilAnagram]

Nice guide; agree with most stuff. Extra attacks should be blue or sky blue, song of rest no more than purple, but I agree mostly

I agree with you on Extra Attack now that I've had some time to really experience the Valor Bard outside of theorycraft. However, you should not that purple is explicitly outside if the normal hierarchy of color-coding. I Use It To denote abilities whose uses fluctuate depending on circumstances. For example, Prestidigitation has potentially infinite uses, but doesn't provide concrete benefits. I think Song of Rest is rated accurately.

[RickAllison]

I agree with you on Extra Attack now that I've had some time to really experience the Valor Bard outside of theorycraft. However, you should not that purple is explicitly outside if the normal hierarchy of color-coding. I Use It To denote abilities whose uses fluctuate depending on circumstances. For example, Prestidigitation has potentially infinite uses, but doesn't provide concrete benefits. I think Song of Rest is rated accurately.

Which is a little odd compared to most guides. Most guides I've perused use green for that purpose since it is off the red-blue chain. To each their own, everyone gets it so long as they actually read the first post

[EvilAnagram]

Which is a little odd compared to most guides. Most guides I've perused use green for that purpose since it is off the red-blue chain. To each their own, everyone gets it so long as they actually read the first post

Yeah, I've eschewed the green coding because it looks terrible. It's similar to how I don't use gold because nothing is actually mandatory for you to have fun in D&D.

And I don't see the point in having an intermediate between black and red because if it isn't good and it isn't situationally useful then it's bad.

And I think that if nothing else I've proven that nothing can get some people to read the first post. My Sorcerer guide has a sexy Tiefling and it has way more complaints related to purple ratings.

[Polarthief]

Regarding Resilient (Con for Concentration [and other stuff I guess]), would you recommend War Caster on top of it? Having Advantage on my proficient Con saves would be really nice, on top of the spell reactions (and for RP reasons, no free hand for somatic requirements mean I can always hold my Lyre/Lute/etc instrument. Just very RP-y for me :D), or would just WC or Resilient be enough? Since I'm new, I have no idea what's going to be overkill or not.

Just weighing all my options ahead of time since I need 2 ASIs on CHA (for a total of permanent 20 for the +5), giving me only 2 feats since I'm going Bard/Lock and giving up an ASI for it (4/8/12 Bard and 4 Warlock).

[EvilAnagram]

Resilient and War Caster are both solid feats for your build. If you have both, your Concentration saves will be insane.

[Polarthief]

Resilient and War Caster are both solid feats for your build. If you have both, your Concentration saves will be insane.

But do I reeeeeeeeally need all that much? How bad is the DC for saves on keeping Concentration?

I mean yeah it's awesome to have, but I question if I'll really need to use both of my only feats on Concentration saving, since I only get 4 ASIs.

[RickAllison]

But do I reeeeeeeeally need all that much? How bad is the DC for saves on keeping Concentration?

I mean yeah it's awesome to have, but I question if I'll really need to use both of my only feats on Concentration saving, since I only get 4 ASIs.

DC is 10 or half the damage, whichever is higher. With 12 Con, you will have a 40% chance of failing the save every time a commoner smacks you unarmed for just one damage. With just Warcaster, your basic chance of failure goes down to 16%. With just Resilient (Con), your chance of failure goes down to 30% at low levels and down to 10% at level 17 (which won't be for a while). Together, your chance of failure goes from 9% to 1%. That becomes even more important when you get to the higher level threats that deal damage resulting in a higher DC.

[Polarthief]

Together, your chance of failure goes from 9% to 1%.

*throws PHB on the bed* Guess I'm done looking at feats then! lol

Sorry for all these questions guys, and I super appreciate the friendly and helpful posts. Incredibly nervous and being the support-y skillmonkey, I don't want to let down my group. The game's been constantly on my mind since I got my PHB a few weeks ago, so it's setting me up to fail big time if I mess up :(

[RickAllison]

*throws PHB on the bed* Guess I'm done looking at feats then! lol

Sorry for all these questions guys, and I super appreciate the friendly and helpful posts. Incredibly nervous and being the support-y skillmonkey, I don't want to let down my group. The game's been constantly on my mind since I got my PHB a few weeks ago, so it's setting me up to fail big time if I mess up :(

Relax and have fun. It'll be a blast.

EDIT: Also, don't get flustered if your concentration drops. It'll happen and sometimes you can't prevent it in any way, so just be prepared to get right back in the action!

[Polarthief]

Ugggggggh, I want both Resil and War Caster, but man there's so many other fun feats I'd love to pick up. Actor, Alert, Lucky (oh man I reeeeeeeeally want Lucky!), Mobile, and... I think there was one more but I can't remember.

I should just roll Variant Human to take an extra feat right off the bat :D

Another quick question: Besides ASIs/some feats, is there any way to improve your ability scores permanently? I want to get to 20 CHA (starting at 16), but I'd love to be able to save ASIs on those fun feats.

[RickAllison]

Ugggggggh, I want both Resil and War Caster, but man there's so many other fun feats I'd love to pick up. Actor, Alert, Lucky (oh man I reeeeeeeeally want Lucky!), Mobile, and... I think there was one more but I can't remember.

I should just roll Variant Human to take an extra feat right off the bat :D

Another quick question: Besides ASIs/some feats, is there any way to improve your ability scores permanently? I want to get to 20 CHA (starting at 16), but I'd love to be able to save ASIs on those fun feats.

Not reliably, and it's even less likely with AL. There is a series of magic items that act as a free ASI for a certain ability. I don't think there are any other ways, but I might be wrong.

[Polarthief]

Not reliably, and it's even less likely with AL. There is a series of magic items that act as a free ASI for a certain ability. I don't think there are any other ways, but I might be wrong.

Damn. Ahh well, maybe I'll find some enchanted Lyre or something cool :)

I guess I have one last question though just to keep in mind, would it be better to improve CHA to 20 for my first 2 ASIs or should I nab feats first?

[EvilAnagram]

Damn. Ahh well, maybe I'll find some enchanted Lyre or something cool :)

I guess I have one last question though just to keep in mind, would it be better to improve CHA to 20 for my first 2 ASIs or should I nab feats first?

I usually spend my first ASI on my primary stat, but the second can be a feat. getting 18 is more important than getting 20.

[Polarthief]

I usually spend my first ASI on my primary stat, but the second can be a feat. getting 18 is more important than getting 20.

Any specific recommendation for the first feat?

I still want to get Lucky so bad. Just sounds like a damn good time (and awesome RP possibility), but I feel like I'll regret not taking both WC and Resil. Might end up not taking WC (Con is 13 so Resil also nets me +1 for more HP and even better saves). Getting only 4 ASIs stinks :(

[EvilAnagram]

Any specific recommendation for the first feat?

I still want to get Lucky so bad. Just sounds like a damn good time (and awesome RP possibility), but I feel like I'll regret not taking both WC and Resil. Might end up not taking WC (Con is 13 so Resil also nets me +1 for more HP and even better saves). Getting only 4 ASIs stinks :(

Either works. If you find yourself getting annoyed at having to switch between foci, take War Caster.

[Polarthief]

Either works. If you find yourself getting annoyed at having to switch between foci, take War Caster.

Hell I might consider dropping my second ASI so I can get Resil, WC, and Lucky, but I guess I'll see as time comes :)

Thanks again for all the help Evil and everyone else! Still a bit anxious but really excited and feeling a lot more prepared. First session starts tomorrow!

Edit: Omg I keep learning small tidbits of info that changes like literally everything. Swear I'm a glutton for D&D knowledge at this point; the PHB and Google's been my fix XD I was not under the assumption that rounds lasted only 6 seconds, so a spell that lasts 1m, like Heat Metal, lasts an eternity (10 rounds)! I questioned why it was sky blue; I had no idea! From a new player perspective, I see that as shining gold rating, holy hot damn! Can't wait to burn people using metal armor/weapons/etc ;)

[DivisibleByZero]

I'd like to point out that you omitted something extremely important from College of Swords that I think makes it superior to Valor.

Yes, College of Valor is cool for melee. But TWF doesn't step on Battle Magic's toes very much at all. It's the exact same as Valor's Battle Magic. Cast a Bard spell, get to make one attack as a bonus action. Sure, you're basically limited to light and/or finessable blades here, which means that a Valor Bard potentially has an advantage over you (I say potentially because many upon many Valor Bards will be going the finesse route anyway). So making Swords' Battle Magic black while Valor's Battle Magic is light blue seems unfair to me.

But that isn't the part that bothers me with your assessment of Swords.
For Blade Flourish, you say: "Boost your AC or ranged attack, with a rider on top. It's nice, even with the limitations."
That doesn't even mention Unnerving Flourish at all, which is by FAR the best Flourish.
Pull your attack, just like anyone else can, to leave an enemy at 1hp instead of zero. But in addition, you can use this (spending your bonus action and one Bardic Inspiration die) to make the enemy frightened of you for a number of minutes equal to your Cha mod. You also force that enemy to make a Wisdom save vs your spellcasting saving throw DC + the result of the BI roll. If the enemy fails that save (which is likely with the DC raised by the BI die) you then in addition to the frightened effect, you also get what basically amounts to a free Zone of Truth and a free Dominate, which lasts for what will likely be 3-5 minutes, and does not require concentration.
Unnerving Strike, just by itself, makes this College worth it. It is far and away better than Combat Inspiration in my opinion, and that alone makes Swords superior to Valor, because those are basically the only difference.
When the only real difference between the two favors Swords, but you rate Swords lower, I see that as a problem.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Unnerving Strike, just by itself, makes this College worth it. It is far and away better than Combat Inspiration in my opinion, and that alone makes Swords superior to Valor, because those are basically the only difference.
When the only real difference between the two favors Swords, but you rate Swords lower, I see that as a problem.

You're forgetting the Valor's side of the tradeoff, being able to boost Allies' AC and damage directly, which Swords cannot do. Valor's CI allows the allied player to selectively choose when and how the die is spent, whereas Swords must give the more limited die to an ally, or save it and use it on themselves. And if Swords is using the die to boost AC, it must be used preemptively, and the attack bonus is only applied to to-hit rolls on a highly specific attack.
Really, the Swords CI is rather situational, whereas Valor's is more generally useful.

And the other difference is getting two-weapon fighting style vs getting access to Shields, Longbows, and heavy x-bows, as well as the best STR weapons (which is only useful for specific builds, so a more minor bonus). The importance of this difference is more build dependent.

[PoeticDwarf]

I agree with you on Extra Attack now that I've had some time to really experience the Valor Bard outside of theorycraft. However, you should not that purple is explicitly outside if the normal hierarchy of color-coding. I Use It To denote abilities whose uses fluctuate depending on circumstances. For example, Prestidigitation has potentially infinite uses, but doesn't provide concrete benefits. I think Song of Rest is rated accurately.

I know about how you use purple and I like it, but song of rest is sometimes really strong and sometimes you can't use it properly. It is really depending on the situation. If you don't want to rate it purple it should be red. It barely helps

[DivisibleByZero]

You're forgetting the Valor's side of the tradeoff, {snip}

I'm not forgetting anything. I'm also not theorycrafting. I've seen Valor Bards in play with Combat Inspiration, and I'm currently playing a Blade who uses Unnerving Flourish as often as feasibly possible because of how friggin amazing it is.
Yes, the Valor Bard gets more weapons and shields. Yes, his Combat Inspiration is useful to his allies.
But getting a fighting style in exchange for the other weapons is a fair trade. And getting most of the Valor Bard's Combat Inspirations for yourself (only you, and with some stipulations) is offset by how unbelievable the extra one that you get (which the Valor Bard doesn't), namely Unnerving Flourish, is.
Worst case scenario, they are on equal footing, with the only difference being whether you help the party or yourself.
In my opinion, Swords is simply better because of how good UF is.

[EvilAnagram]

I'd like to point out that you omitted something extremely important from College of Swords that I think makes it superior to Valor.

Okay. Well, there's a lot to unpack from your post, so let's get to it.

Yes, College of Valor is cool for melee. But TWF doesn't step on Battle Magic's toes very much at all. It's the exact same as Valor's Battle Magic. Cast a Bard spell, get to make one attack as a bonus action. Sure, you're basically limited to light and/or finessable blades here, which means that a Valor Bard potentially has an advantage over you (I say potentially because many upon many Valor Bards will be going the finesse route anyway). So making Swords' Battle Magic black while Valor's Battle Magic is light blue seems unfair to me.

I suppose it's more that all of the Sword College's features step on each other's toes. Inspiration, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Battle Magic are all competing for that one bonus action. And while not every Valor Bard will focus on Strength, even finesse Valor Bards can use rapiers, which still deal more damage than the Swords' scimitars. Reduced damage and more competition make two strikes that degrade how worthwhile Battle Magic is. Still, Battle Magic is usually used when you would have cast anyways, so I can see bumping it to Blue, but not Sky Blue.

Unnerving Strike, just by itself, makes this College worth it. It is far and away better than Combat Inspiration in my opinion, and that alone makes Swords superior to Valor, because those are basically the only difference.
When the only real difference between the two favors Swords, but you rate Swords lower, I see that as a problem.

Well, it's not the only real difference. The fact that Valor Bards can be more effective cast-and-slashers is real. The fact that Valor bards can have better AC without using any resources and can still give out Inspiration to his buddies is real. More importantly, the fact that the Sword Bard has features that consistently compete with each other for use is a real difference.

A Valor Bard gives his Inspiration to his allies, and they decide when and how to use them at the most convenient moment. Sword Bards can do this to a more limited extent, but they're also encouraged to hoard their Inspiration for these more situational effects. They're powerful effects, but they're limited in applicability and erode your ability to aid your allies. That's why it's "only" rated really cool.

After consideration, I'm lowering the rating of Two-Weapon Fighting because of how much it competes with other Bard abilities, but I'll boost up Battle Magic a bit.

Edit: Although, since you play a Sword Bard anyways, I might as well ask you. Does TWF get used often enough to justify a good rating? It seems like it would be getting crowded out pretty often.

I know about how you use purple and I like it, but song of rest is sometimes really strong and sometimes you can't use it properly. It is really depending on the situation. If you don't want to rate it purple it should be red. It barely helps

I may be biased because I've usually seen it while I DM, and I tend to run tough games, but it tends to make a pretty big difference when my group's Bard uses it. With the book's assumption that 5e runs on 6-8 encounters a day, it's a reliable way to stretch party hit dice.

[Drackolus]

I think it's worth mentioning that a bard gets to use jack of all trades on dispel magic (on their list), counterspell, and telekinesis. It makes you almost as good as an abjuration wizard. A lore bard also gets to use peerless skill and, in the case of telekinesis, cutting words. Personally, I'd rate dispel magic as sky blue just because only abjuration wizards are better than bards at using it, and arguably they aren't better than a lore bard once they hit 14.

[EvilAnagram]

I think it's worth mentioning that a bard gets to use jack of all trades on dispel magic (on their list), counterspell, and telekinesis. It makes you almost as good as an abjuration wizard. A lore bard also gets to use peerless skill and, in the case of telekinesis, cutting words. Personally, I'd rate dispel magic as sky blue just because only abjuration wizards are better than bards at using it, and arguably they aren't better than a lore bard once they hit 14.

I think your point is well argued, but I don't think the increased capability translated to an increase in how it should be rated. It's totally worth mentioning, though, and I intend to do just that.