Are there any books out there without Plot Induced Stupidity?

[Lethologica]

It's really strange - Terry Brooks is one of the most prolific fantasy authors of the last 40 years, I see his books all over bookstores and libraries, and he seems to be well respected by his fellow authors, but I almost never see fantasy fans say anything nice about his books. He must have a lot of fans, but all I ever see for him is scorn.

Ah--it depends which authors you ask. Brooks gets a heap of criticism from other authors (not 'fellow'--they're not exactly a, um, fellowship) who consider Shannara "a tenth-rate rip-off [of LotR]" and lament that it was the leading edge of the derivative-sword-and-sorcery-epic wave. The above quote is from Peter Beagle's introduction to the A Secret History of Fantasy anthology; Beagle certainly made no secret of his feelings about Brooks' work. Neither of these criticisms are particularly fair to make of a 23-year-old's first commercial success, of course.

[McStabbington]

Oddly, I was about to cite Lord of the Rings as a counter-example: Sauron's first move is to send nine unkillable wraith-kings out to hunt our protagonists - not exactly going easy on them. As the books progress, we see more and more of Sauron's minions, but nothing ever outclasses the Nazgul.

(As has been pointed out, the scene you're talking about differs from movie to book, and I don't think the movie version is too bad either - the only fault lies in the implication that the Ringwraiths can sniff out the Ring like a bloodhound. They can't. They can get vague inklings of its proximity, but unless it's being worn they are mostly reliant on mundane senses, and I seem to recall they're hindered in that area, especially in daylight.)

Yeah, that is one of the examples that still holds up really well. The more you dig into Ringlore or read the series, the more you realize that Sauron is never playing stupid. If he uses a goblin horde or something, that might work, but then he may well have to spend the next five hundred years hunting down the right bolthole in the bottom of Mount Gundabad to get his ring back. In theory, he might be able to bend a more powerful agent like a dragon or Durin's Bane to his will and get them to go for it, but that's a guarantee that they'll claim it for themselves and cast him down. The Nazgul do have some limits, but they are an ideal mix of substantial power and total loyalty. About the only thing he risked is that the Nine would be unmasked and in the interim the Ringbearer would fly by eagle to the Cracks of Doom, which was . . . probably the best way to go over all but highly unlikely.

[Traab]

Yeah, that is one of the examples that still holds up really well. The more you dig into Ringlore or read the series, the more you realize that Sauron is never playing stupid. If he uses a goblin horde or something, that might work, but then he may well have to spend the next five hundred years hunting down the right bolthole in the bottom of Mount Gundabad to get his ring back. In theory, he might be able to bend a more powerful agent like a dragon or Durin's Bane to his will and get them to go for it, but that's a guarantee that they'll claim it for themselves and cast him down. The Nazgul do have some limits, but they are an ideal mix of substantial power and total loyalty. About the only thing he risked is that the Nine would be unmasked and in the interim the Ringbearer would fly by eagle to the Cracks of Doom, which was . . . probably the best way to go over all but highly unlikely.

Honestly, I agree but the way it came off in story bugged me. These nine riders. The invincible ringwraiths, most dangerous deadly and loyal of saurons minions, couldnt catch a handful of hobbits with less understanding of SERE than a 5 year old. Its more a dissonance with what we are told about the nazgul and what they DO. I mean, aside from his crowning moment of badassery where the witch king breaks gandalfs staff (unless that was movie only as well, GOD its been so long since I read the books) All they ever do is scream a lot and ride winged mounts.

[Rockphed]

Honestly, I agree but the way it came off in story bugged me. These nine riders. The invincible ringwraiths, most dangerous deadly and loyal of saurons minions, couldnt catch a handful of hobbits with less understanding of SERE than a 5 year old. Its more a dissonance with what we are told about the nazgul and what they DO. I mean, aside from his crowning moment of badassery where the witch king breaks gandalfs staff (unless that was movie only as well, GOD its been so long since I read the books) All they ever do is scream a lot and ride winged mounts.

Well, they spend a lot of time just trying to figure out who they are looking for. Then they spends lots of time tracking the Hobbits through the shire. At one point, probably the point that got bastardized for the sniffing scene in the movie, Frodo and Sam run in with some Elves just before the rider finds them. The only truly unbelievable thing is that Farmer Maggot chases off the rider with only a couple of very large dogs. Once the riders pin-point where they think Frodo will be, 5 of them bust down the gate to Buckland and storm the house they think he is in. I suspect that Sauron told the riders to be as discrete as possible, only revealing their power when they were sure they had the prize. They didn't expect Frodo to try to leave the shire, so they just tried to figure out where he was going.

While it is a bit jarring that we don't see more of the Nazgul, we know that either they or their flying mounts cause panic in all but the strongest willed men. Gandalf fought 5 of them on weather top, but they ultimately drove him off. We hear a lot of them having battles with Gandalf and a few elves while Strider is trying to get Frodo to Rivendell. And then there is the scene where Kind Theoden and his honor guard get taken out by a single Nazgul dropping out of the sky on them. Albeit, it was a Nazgul on a giant dragon-thing, but that leads back to the question of whether it is the mount or the rider who is important.

[Traab]

Well, they spend a lot of time just trying to figure out who they are looking for. Then they spends lots of time tracking the Hobbits through the shire. At one point, probably the point that got bastardized for the sniffing scene in the movie, Frodo and Sam run in with some Elves just before the rider finds them. The only truly unbelievable thing is that Farmer Maggot chases off the rider with only a couple of very large dogs. Once the riders pin-point where they think Frodo will be, 5 of them bust down the gate to Buckland and storm the house they think he is in. I suspect that Sauron told the riders to be as discrete as possible, only revealing their power when they were sure they had the prize. They didn't expect Frodo to try to leave the shire, so they just tried to figure out where he was going.

While it is a bit jarring that we don't see more of the Nazgul, we know that either they or their flying mounts cause panic in all but the strongest willed men. Gandalf fought 5 of them on weather top, but they ultimately drove him off. We hear a lot of them having battles with Gandalf and a few elves while Strider is trying to get Frodo to Rivendell. And then there is the scene where Kind Theoden and his honor guard get taken out by a single Nazgul dropping out of the sky on them. Albeit, it was a Nazgul on a giant dragon-thing, but that leads back to the question of whether it is the mount or the rider who is important.

But thats my point. They dont do anything better than a group of regular joes with a small amount of knowledge in tracking could do. They dont show anything other than being able to see frodo with the ring on that is special to them. And yet we are told they are these terrible monstrous powerful beings. Great kings of old that fell into corruption and slavery. They are off screen badass like you said with gandalf at weathertop, but any time we see them short of the battle for minas tirith they just arent all that impressive other than being really really scary when they scream. So there is that dissonance between what we are told they are and what they show us they are. Its hard to treat them as elites when 4 hobbits with literally zero clue wtf they are doing manage to escape them time and time again.

[Douglas]

I think the Nazgul are elite primarily in their combat capabilities. They don't seem that impressive from what we see because most of the time we see them they're not being challenged in that capacity. For them to really show off someone would have to stand and fight them, and the hobbits (wisely) never even attempt that.

The fact that they're nothing special at tracking and preventing escape doesn't really say anything about their power as combatants.

[Traab]

I think the Nazgul are elite primarily in their combat capabilities. They don't seem that impressive from what we see because most of the time we see them they're not being challenged in that capacity. For them to really show off someone would have to stand and fight them, and the hobbits (wisely) never even attempt that.

The fact that they're nothing special at tracking and preventing escape doesn't really say anything about their power as combatants.

Wouldnt it have made sense for sauron to send out people that COULD track and trap their enemies then? Here is what I would have done, had I been sauron. "The ring is in a land called the Shire and held by someone called Baggins? Ok, you, ringwraith, go collect a band of my human followers, pick ones that are skilled at tracking, get my best horses, and find the ring." That way he can send trackers who know how to do it (and can see/hear/interact with the world better than a wraith) and they are backed up by a nazgul meaning that when they run down and slaughter frodo and whoever is with him, the wraith is there to make sure they dont get any ideas about keeping it for themselves. Or more accurately, that they all die when the ring convinces them to try to claim it. He is also there to provide extra muscle should they run into a problem that requires a freaky undead wraith creature with a sword that tends to break off in the wounds it creates to solve. Anyways, they will be just as conspicuous as sending all 9 nazgul out was, but with skilled trackers they would be far faster at figuring out the hobbits tricks and running them down.

[comicshorse]

Does Sauron have human followers though ? Or at least one's close enough to the Shire to get their in time

[An Enemy Spy]

Does Sauron have human followers though ? Or at least one's close enough to the Shire to get their in time

Yes. In addition to the Haradrim and others in the far south and east, there are people like Bill Ferny. He worked for Saruman who was technically working for Sauron, though Sauron of course would never use Saruman's agents on a mission for the Ring out of the very likely probability that Saruman would take the Ring for himself.

[Rockphed]

But thats my point. They dont do anything better than a group of regular joes with a small amount of knowledge in tracking could do. They dont show anything other than being able to see frodo with the ring on that is special to them. And yet we are told they are these terrible monstrous powerful beings. Great kings of old that fell into corruption and slavery. They are off screen badass like you said with gandalf at weathertop, but any time we see them short of the battle for minas tirith they just arent all that impressive other than being really really scary when they scream. So there is that dissonance between what we are told they are and what they show us they are. Its hard to treat them as elites when 4 hobbits with literally zero clue wtf they are doing manage to escape them time and time again.

The hobbits with no clue escape them twice. They make it across the shire without getting ganked. They make it from the edge of the barrow downs to Bree without getting ganked.

As to the fight at weathertop, in the book Sam notes that it looks like there is lightning coming from weathertop; later we learn that it happened the night Gandalf fought the wraiths. We don't know if it is directed from Gandalf at the wraiths or from the wraiths at Gandalf, but Gandalf ends up being forced to flee.

[ThePhantom]

Ah, but the Nazgul can see the target if they put on the ring, and it would be likely that their target would try that trick to avoid having it being taken away. Other minons of Sauron can't really do that trick, so that makes the Nazgul a better choice for finding the ring.

[Rodin]

I feel it's worth noting that Hobbits are explicitly noted as being able to hide in pretty much plain sight as a racial trait, from the very beginning of The Hobbit where the narration notes that the only reason the reader hasn't seen one is because they don't want to be seen. It's why Gandalf picked up Bilbo to be the team burglar for the dwarves in the first place. Experience didn't matter - he picked Bilbo because he was the only Hobbit that Gandalf knew would be willing to go on an adventure at all. Bilbo wound up being extra good at it thanks to the Ring, but Gandalf had no way to predict that when they set out.

I would wager that, lack of common sense aside, a hobbit is one of the hardest beings to track in Middle Earth. Elves are probably stealthier, but then getting an elf to join the Lonely Mountain expedition was right out.

[Seppl]

Yes. In addition to the Haradrim and others in the far south and east, there are people like Bill Ferny. He worked for Saruman who was technically working for Sauron, though Sauron of course would never use Saruman's agents on a mission for the Ring out of the very likely probability that Saruman would take the Ring for himself.

Employing the likes of Bill Ferny or trackers from a land half a world away from the Shire seems like exactly the kind of recipe for disaster that the opening question was about. Bill Ferny is an archetypal incompetent, self-serving mook. A tracker from Harad would be useless in a country that is completely different than his own (assuming that Harad is like northern Africa and the Shire like England).

[An Enemy Spy]

Employing the likes of Bill Ferny or trackers from a land half a world away from the Shire seems like exactly the kind of recipe for disaster that the opening question was about. Bill Ferny is an archetypal incompetent, self-serving mook. A tracker from Harad would be useless in a country that is completely different than his own (assuming that Harad is like northern Africa and the Shire like England).

He wasn't asking if his human agents were useful, only if they existed.

[McStabbington]

Ah, but the Nazgul can see the target if they put on the ring, and it would be likely that their target would try that trick to avoid having it being taken away. Other minons of Sauron can't really do that trick, so that makes the Nazgul a better choice for finding the ring.

There is definitely that, and there's still the fact that the Nazgul are the one asset he has who are immune to the effects of the Ring. I don't really think that Sauron has many agents in Eriador. Saruman certainly does, but neither he nor any of his agents could be trusted in this particular matter. So any humans that he does send to collect it are:

1) moving slower than the Nazgul. Say what you will about them, but they do seem to move very fast.

2) Not going to know the lay of the land better than any of the remaining Dunedain, who have canonically been keeping a watch on the Shire.

3) At best going to be only somewhat better than the Nazgul at tracking. Even when Frodo went off-road, the Nazgul still seemed to track the Ring; to me, it's iffy whether superior normal tracking skill would have meant much given how notoriously difficult hobbits are supposed to be to pin down, especially on their home turf.

4) going to go off the reservation immediately if they find the Ring, which just reintroduces the question of why have them when you can just send the Nazgul and Keep It Simple.

Don't get me wrong, the Nazgul are not perfect. They don't seem to have much in the way of actual tracking ability as opposed to Ring-homing ability, their capacity to blend in either to their surroundings or with people is marginal at best, and their senses honestly seem a bit blunted. But one can still be both a pretty darn good choice and the best available without being perfect.

And just to address Traab's point, I'm going more off the books than the movies. The movies had to make choices of narrative economy all the way through, and one of their choices was to reduce their Spider-sense for the Ring down to merely smelling. It was a tangible, intelligent choice, but it did nevertheless downplay one of their strongest assets in their hunt for the Ring. One of the things I did remark when I first saw it was that they had nerfed the Nazgul significantly (Aragorn wouldn't have been able to toe off with one Nazgul, much less five).

[The_Snark]

Wouldnt it have made sense for sauron to send out people that COULD track and trap their enemies then? Here is what I would have done, had I been sauron. "The ring is in a land called the Shire and held by someone called Baggins? Ok, you, ringwraith, go collect a band of my human followers, pick ones that are skilled at tracking, get my best horses, and find the ring." That way he can send trackers who know how to do it (and can see/hear/interact with the world better than a wraith) and they are backed up by a nazgul meaning that when they run down and slaughter frodo and whoever is with him, the wraith is there to make sure they dont get any ideas about keeping it for themselves. Or more accurately, that they all die when the ring convinces them to try to claim it. He is also there to provide extra muscle should they run into a problem that requires a freaky undead wraith creature with a sword that tends to break off in the wounds it creates to solve. Anyways, they will be just as conspicuous as sending all 9 nazgul out was, but with skilled trackers they would be far faster at figuring out the hobbits tricks and running them down.

I feel like there's no way to win here; if Sauron had sent one Ringwraith and a bunch of minions after the Ring, people would be scoffing, "You have nine undead wraith-kings, you learn the location of the artifact that will let you conquer the world, and you only send *one* out to get it back? What were you thinking?"

In any case. The Nazgul did make use of human servants when it was convenient: they had informants inside Bree, Bill Ferny (a local) and at least one other. They did not make use of trackers, for a mixture of practical and logistical reasons.

Spoiler: Digression on practical reasons

Show

I know D&D has conditioned us to think of the Track feat as a sort of magic radar that lets you follow people, but... let's think about how it actually works. You need signs to follow: footprints, crushed grass/plants, broken branches, bits of cloth, and so on. (A lot of the signs you might use to track animals, like scat/territory markings/signs of feeding, don't apply so well to people.) It's not reliable over long distances: not all environments hold signs very well, and they're not guaranteed to be spaced so that each one is within spotting distance of the last. It's not fast, because you need to be carefully inspecting your surroundings; in fact it's quite possible that you're going slower than your quarry, especially if they know they're being pursued. And the trail gets worse the longer you leave it.

I suppose bloodhounds could have circumvented some of these obstacles, but not all of them, and the dogs would have presented other issues (like freaking out around the Nazgul).

On the logistics side, the Nazgul weren't specifically expecting a hunt through the wilderness when they set out. They were told that Baggins came into possession of the Ring over fifty years ago, and that he came from someplace called Shire; that was all Sauron had. Not knowing what to expect, he chose to send out his most powerful, most reliable servants, and figured they could improvise depending on what they found. It's easy to come up with a better plan in hindsight, when you know all the important details, but frankly I feel like Sauron acted pretty sensibly given limited information.

(I wouldn't say the hobbits are clueless, either - as McStabbington says, the movie has to skip a lot of detail for the sake of pacing. Frodo and company actually do take steps to mislead the Black Riders and avoid places that they suspect will be watched.)

[Drascin]

Well, they spend a lot of time just trying to figure out who they are looking for. Then they spends lots of time tracking the Hobbits through the shire. At one point, probably the point that got bastardized for the sniffing scene in the movie, Frodo and Sam run in with some Elves just before the rider finds them. The only truly unbelievable thing is that Farmer Maggot chases off the rider with only a couple of very large dogs.

The Rider basically chuckles at Maggot when he threatens about his dogs and simply retreats leisurely. I'm pretty sure that's not chased off - that's just the Nazgûl figuring he's not going to get anything of use here and laughing at the silly hobbit and his silly dogs.

[Killer Angel]

I would say that PIS is absent, in stories where the conflict is between intelligent or capable characters, so the plot evolves in a race of "who is the smartest?".

things ala Lord Darcy (IIRC) and Locke Lamora

[Bulldog Psion]

The Rider basically chuckles at Maggot when he threatens about his dogs and simply retreats leisurely. I'm pretty sure that's not chased off - that's just the Nazgûl figuring he's not going to get anything of use here and laughing at the silly hobbit and his silly dogs.

In fact, IIRC, he first laughed, then attempted to trample Maggot under the hoofs of his horse before riding off. Maggot whistled for his dogs, but the Nazgul was already riding away. Here we go:

‘He gave a sort of hiss. It might have been laughing, and it might not. Then he spurred his great horse right at me, and I jumped out of the way only just in time. I called the dogs, but he swung off, and rode through the gate and up the lane towards the causeway like a bolt of thunder. What do you think of that?’

So he wasn't exactly seen off by Maggot -- he made a casual (and almost successful) murder attempt on him before riding off to try another method of intercepting Frodo. His treatment of Maggot seems a bit like some ancient undead lord dealing with something contemptible but too insignificant to bother dismounting and cutting the throat of.

[comicshorse]

He wasn't asking if his human agents were useful, only if they existed.

No I was asking if any would be useful. Hence the 'Or at least one's close enough to the Shire to get their in time' comment

[Traab]

I feel like there's no way to win here; if Sauron had sent one Ringwraith and a bunch of minions after the Ring, people would be scoffing, "You have nine undead wraith-kings, you learn the location of the artifact that will let you conquer the world, and you only send *one* out to get it back? What were you thinking?"

In any case. The Nazgul did make use of human servants when it was convenient: they had informants inside Bree, Bill Ferny (a local) and at least one other. They did not make use of trackers, for a mixture of practical and logistical reasons.

Spoiler: Digression on practical reasons

Show

I know D&D has conditioned us to think of the Track feat as a sort of magic radar that lets you follow people, but... let's think about how it actually works. You need signs to follow: footprints, crushed grass/plants, broken branches, bits of cloth, and so on. (A lot of the signs you might use to track animals, like scat/territory markings/signs of feeding, don't apply so well to people.) It's not reliable over long distances: not all environments hold signs very well, and they're not guaranteed to be spaced so that each one is within spotting distance of the last. It's not fast, because you need to be carefully inspecting your surroundings; in fact it's quite possible that you're going slower than your quarry, especially if they know they're being pursued. And the trail gets worse the longer you leave it.

I suppose bloodhounds could have circumvented some of these obstacles, but not all of them, and the dogs would have presented other issues (like freaking out around the Nazgul).

On the logistics side, the Nazgul weren't specifically expecting a hunt through the wilderness when they set out. They were told that Baggins came into possession of the Ring over fifty years ago, and that he came from someplace called Shire; that was all Sauron had. Not knowing what to expect, he chose to send out his most powerful, most reliable servants, and figured they could improvise depending on what they found. It's easy to come up with a better plan in hindsight, when you know all the important details, but frankly I feel like Sauron acted pretty sensibly given limited information.

(I wouldn't say the hobbits are clueless, either - as McStabbington says, the movie has to skip a lot of detail for the sake of pacing. Frodo and company actually do take steps to mislead the Black Riders and avoid places that they suspect will be watched.)

The thing is, my idea had the best of both worlds. You had the big scary utterly loyal nazgul there, who could sense the general presence of the ring, and provide highly deadly backup in a fight. And you had people with actual skill at tracking, who could probably interact with other people far easier than a freaking nazgul could. Which wasnt a matter of me thinking in hindsight, sauron KNEW they had to do some tracking and searching to find the ring, he had no idea outside of an entire country and name to work with. So wouldnt it make sense to send beings that are actually skilled at that instead of your fear spreading weapons of terror and warfare? The nazgul would have had a hard time tracking the hobbits if they walked across a muddy shore, they cant SEE properly, and they terrify everyone they talk to even when they dont particularly want to. Subtle, they aint.

And by sending a nazgul with the trackers, they are covered if the baggins fellow uses the ring to try and escape, and covered again if this baggins fellow tries to fight and turns out to be good at it. And covered a third time because when they get the ring and it tempts the trackers into stupidity, the nazgul can just kill them all and make a dead sprint for the border of mordor. Its honestly the smartest plan I can think of that doesnt involve foreknowledge of events.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I can think of a slightly better one. Use more than one team, starting from different points. Make a proper sweep of it.

[Traab]

I can think of a slightly better one. Use more than one team, starting from different points. Make a proper sweep of it.

Well true, but I think sauron was keeping a relatively low profile at the time, right? The 9 riders were bad enough, if there was enough haradrim to count as a battalion being seen all over the dang place in small squads, that might cause issues with more than just gandalf.

[hamishspence]

Unfinished Tales went into some detail on Sauron's plans (why exactly send the Nazgul out alone) and what they did while they were in the Shire (split up, search it, awaken various evil spirits and set them on the watch, and so forth).

[Frozen_Feet]

It should be noted the hobbits escaped only narrowly at Bree thanks to Aragorn, and would've died in the Old Forest without Tom Bombadil. So even if Sauron's plan wasn't the best one possible, it was good enough to nearly succeed at least twice and only failed due to enemy action. There's plot at work there, but it's not plot-induced stupidity.

[Broken Crown]

The thing is, my idea had the best of both worlds. You had the big scary utterly loyal nazgul there, who could sense the general presence of the ring, and provide highly deadly backup in a fight. And you had people with actual skill at tracking, who could probably interact with other people far easier than a freaking nazgul could. Which wasnt a matter of me thinking in hindsight, sauron KNEW they had to do some tracking and searching to find the ring, he had no idea outside of an entire country and name to work with. So wouldnt it make sense to send beings that are actually skilled at that instead of your fear spreading weapons of terror and warfare?

It's a good plan, but I kind of get the impression that Sauron didn't have much to choose from by way of mortal agents in the West. Sauron apparently hadn't even heard of the Shire, so he seems to be lacking in up-to-date intelligence from that part of the world. The Lord of the Nazgul may well have been the closest thing Sauron had to a "local source", since he used to be King of Angmar, way back. And his knowledge of the area was hardly current.

If Sauron used Haradrim or Easterlings (or Orcs! Some of the orcs were quite good trackers), they'd be just as conspicuous as the Nazgul (and might not speak the language, which is a drawback when you're making enquiries). Sauron seems to have been intent on keeping a low profile, possibly in case this "Baggins" person hadn't yet caught wind of the pursuit. At the same time, he was on a tight schedule, so he wouldn't have had time to set up agents in place.

I think the flaws in Sauron's search for the Ring were more a matter of limited resources than bad planning.

[Traab]

Its possible, and like I said, its not so much that it was a bad idea to send the nazgul as it was the way they were written didnt back up their reputation imo. I mean, I had this mental image in my head of them being his highest level troops. Nigh unkillable, virtually unstoppable, an implacable force of terror and death. And 4 hobbits barely into adulthood escaped from them. A ranger with a torch and a sword, not even elendil, just a sword, forced them to fall back instead of, you know, slaughtering him like a fat calf and bringing the hobbits along for late night snacks on the mad dash to mordor. Im aware there are extenuating circumstances in all this, thats why im willing to admit this isnt PIS, its just, they virtually never back up their hype.

[Lethologica]

In the books, Aragorn doesn't drive off the Nazgul at Weathertop; they withdraw for reasons unknown. Strider speculates that 'the name of Elbereth,' which Frodo cried out, was harmful to them in some way. That said, I could also buy that, say, the Nazgul's powers dwindle when far from their master, or in the presence of 'place-magic' like the Shire (or, more obviously/explicitly, Rivendell).

[comicshorse]

Its possible, and like I said, its not so much that it was a bad idea to send the nazgul as it was the way they were written didnt back up their reputation imo. I mean, I had this mental image in my head of them being his highest level troops. Nigh unkillable, virtually unstoppable, an implacable force of terror and death. And 4 hobbits barely into adulthood escaped from them. A ranger with a torch and a sword, not even elendil, just a sword, forced them to fall back instead of, you know, slaughtering him like a fat calf and bringing the hobbits along for late night snacks on the mad dash to mordor. Im aware there are extenuating circumstances in all this, thats why im willing to admit this isnt PIS, its just, they virtually never back up their hype.

Aren't they at their weakest though because they're so far away from Sauron ?

[Gnoman]

A ranger with a torch and a sword, not even elendil, just a sword

Elendil was Aragorn's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather. The special sword he had was Andúril, forged from the shards of the sword Narsil that was wielded by Isildur son of Elendil.