Flash, Season 2

[BlueHerring]

Well, this finale made my decision to drop the series way easier, so I guess I have that to be thankful for.

Honestly, the series took a downturn when they revealed who Zoom was. He worked way better as a faceless jerkface villain. They kinda dropped the ball there with all of the time remnant nonsense, but the show is still very much watchable. Barry being gloomy is annoying, but it's a notable contrast from his usual behavior.

That works, as opposed to Oliver "I'm totes not Batman" Queen's constant gloom.

The show wasn't handled well in its second half, but it's probably still more watchable than Arrow.

[Drakeburn]

Seriously though, where did they find these writers?

At least it wasn't completely bad. Might take a peek at the third season to see if it's worth watching or not.

[Pex]

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Not that I'm expecting all unicorns and rainbows now that Flash changed history, but I do hope next season is not all of a sudden Apocalypse or Dystopian World where everyone is miserable and spiteful that Flash has to live through until he can fix it in the season finale. They can't do the actual Flashpoint Paradox with no Aquaman, Wonder Woman, etc., so the theory is they'd do their own version. However, I personally found the war between Aquaman and Wonder Woman to be stupid and not a credible occurrence to have happened just because Flash saved his mother. I would not want to see a season of something similar. If anything just have it be a season premier issue, maybe a two parter, that Flash fixes at the end just to get it over with then go back to a more normal storyline.

[random11]

Part of "character growth" is being able to learn from your own mistakes.

How many times does he intend to repeat the same one?

[BWR]

I'd very much like to see a happy hero for once. Fine, be concerned with innocents and worry about stopping baddies and saving the world, but one who is generally happy with life and not moping about all the time. Barry showed some of this in his Supergirl episode, where I really liked him, and started to show something similar after his trip in the Speed Force. Focus on stopping baddies and not on drawn out personal drama and angst.

[themaque]

I liked it. 99 % at least.

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JWS as flash in an awesome bright Flash outfit? WIN. The team ganging up? WIN. Barry actually having a plan to win at the race? WIN. little forced but I'll buy it.

The previously explained history of the Black Racer makes it even better for me.

Only problem that sucked? Didn't we JUST move past his mother's death like two episodes ago? You're hitting a big reset button on the entire universe and.... Well now we know how Supergirl and anything else can be fit in.

I think anyone who says the show is dead is way jumping the gun. I thought the series was well done overall. Look forward to season 3 and hopefully a slightly brighter tone. How weird would it be for this to just work out in his favor?

EDIT
HOW DO YOU WANT SEASON 3 TO GO?

What is your worst and best case scenario? This allows them to do... ANYTHING really. so what do you think an what do you HOPE will happen? Would this affect all earths or just earth one? If so will Earth 2 Harry and Jesse remember the previous one? Think we will ever see Jay Garrick again?

Villains, Heros, Relationships?

[Dragonus45]

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Not that I'm expecting all unicorns and rainbows now that Flash changed history, but I do hope next season is not all of a sudden Apocalypse or Dystopian World where everyone is miserable and spiteful that Flash has to live through until he can fix it in the season finale. They can't do the actual Flashpoint Paradox with no Aquaman, Wonder Woman, etc., so the theory is they'd do their own version. However, I personally found the war between Aquaman and Wonder Woman to be stupid and not a credible occurrence to have happened just because Flash saved his mother. I would not want to see a season of something similar. If anything just have it be a season premier issue, maybe a two parter, that Flash fixes at the end just to get it over with then go back to a more normal storyline.

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Something to keep in mind about the Flashpoint stuff is that it wast all butterfly effect style time ripple. He had actually just been the straw that broke the already weak multiverses back and caused a ripple that moved multiple events around. Like a slight shift in when superman arrives meaning he landed in populated metropolis.

[Antonok]

Why do I have the feeling this finale is the way they're going to try and connect in Supergirl into the rest of the worldspace? Was a good episode until the ending.

[themaque]

Why do I have the feeling this finale is the way they're going to try and connect in Supergirl into the rest of the worldspace? Was a good episode until the ending.

Maybe all the "SUPERGIRL THIS FALL ON THE CW!" during all the commercial breaks?

[Kyberwulf]

Did anyone else get a NASCAR vibe from the 500 laps turning left, at the climax?

[Dragonexx]

So, here's an explanation for the flashpoint thing. Wonder if the show will turn out like this?



Also, as to the finale, bizarrely Arrow's was the most genuinely satisfying of all the DCCW shows, what with the villain getting a satisfying defeat and actual character development. Legend's felt like it was both rushed, and too much was crammed in. Flash's good though also a bit underwhelming. Also the ending was 2 steps forwards, 5 steps back.

[ryuplaneswalker]

I liked it. 99 % at least.

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JWS as flash in an awesome bright Flash outfit? WIN. The team ganging up? WIN. Barry actually having a plan to win at the race? WIN. little forced but I'll buy it.

The previously explained history of the Black Racer makes it even better for me.

Only problem that sucked? Didn't we JUST move past his mother's death like two episodes ago? You're hitting a big reset button on the entire universe and.... Well now we know how Supergirl and anything else can be fit in.

I think anyone who says the show is dead is way jumping the gun. I thought the series was well done overall. Look forward to season 3 and hopefully a slightly brighter tone. How weird would it be for this to just work out in his favor?

EDIT
HOW DO YOU WANT SEASON 3 TO GO?

What is your worst and best case scenario? This allows them to do... ANYTHING really. so what do you think an what do you HOPE will happen? Would this affect all earths or just earth one? If so will Earth 2 Harry and Jesse remember the previous one? Think we will ever see Jay Garrick again?

Villains, Heros, Relationships?

Part of me wants a full Earth 2 arc..with Grodd attacking Earth 2 and the flash team having to go there the whole season to help.

[huttj509]

So, here's an explanation for the flashpoint thing. Wonder if the show will turn out like this?



Also, as to the finale, bizarrely Arrow's was the most genuinely satisfying of all the DCCW shows, what with the villain getting a satisfying defeat and actual character development. Legend's felt like it was both rushed, and too much was crammed in. Flash's good though also a bit underwhelming. Also the ending was 2 steps forwards, 5 steps back.

I...I want to see this be the end of the 4 show crossover. Like, keep the choreography, splice in different heroes from LoT, Supergirl, and Arrow, keep the general dialogue.

I mean, I know I love seeing new stuff, and seeing what the writers decide to do, but Zoom's speech there so perfectly encapsulates how I feel about Barry's actions...

[The New Bruceski]

I...I want to see this be the end of the 4 show crossover. Like, keep the choreography, splice in different heroes from LoT, Supergirl, and Arrow, keep the general dialogue.

I mean, I know I love seeing new stuff, and seeing what the writers decide to do, but Zoom's speech there so perfectly encapsulates how I feel about Barry's actions...

The only disappointing thing is that it would probably be delivered by Matt Letscher and not Cavanagh.

[random11]

The ending is just insulting.
"Hey, remember everything that happened in this season? Naaaa, forget it, we'll just start over".

The more impact it will have, the worse it will be.
Arrow finally had something that we can consider a happy ending (if you ignore 10,000 deaths by a nuke), so I don't want any impact on that.

And if the reason is just to find an excuse to shove Supergirl in the same world, that would be worse.
It would practically mean a reset on Supergirl's show too, and for what?
Won't it be better to just say that there is still an existing gate between the worlds so they can meet each others in crossovers using Cisco's vibe, Flash's speed or technobabble from Supergirl's world?
It's not like crossovers are that common even between characters who live just a couple of hours from each other, and that's fine.

So my best case scenario is simply to undo the last 5 minutes somehow and just continue as it should have.

[Sliver]

Hey, remember the version of the Flash that held off Barry from rescuing his mother the first time he came back to that moment? Barry will recreate this scene when he realizes that the alternative history he created is bad and manages to come back for a third time.

Everything that happened in this season won't be erased. It will still happen once Barry repairs the damage that he caused in the last moments of the finale. He will have some time to spend with his parents, or just his mother, so that he can find some inner peace and be somewhat less broken when he has to return back in time and undo the saving of his mother.

The Flashpoint Paradox storyline will have different details, but I very much doubt that the overall storyline will be that much different from the movie.

I think people are a bit too hasty to defecate upon this development, before seeing how it actually... Develops.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

I just hope they don't stretch this out too much... a big 2 parter or 3 parter is all we need...not a whole season.

[Drakeburn]

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I wonder how exactly Barry's deed at the season 2 ending is going to change the timeline?

Assuming that Barry actually murdered Professor Zoom, that would mean that Eobard Thawne never took Harrison Well's identity and made Star Labs a few years early. And if that never happened, then that would mean that Cisco, Ronnie, Caitlin, and Hartley wouldn't be brought in to work for Star Labs, and there would be no particle accelerator explosion which created the meta-humans.

And if I remember correctly, there was an episode in Arrow (season 3 I believe) where Oliver's team had to be saved by the Flash. Although from what I've heard, the Flashpoint paradox is not going to do much to affect Arrow.

From what I can see, the alternate timeline is either going to be pretty catastrophic or really mundane. Did the writers think of any of this when they made the cliffhanger?

[LaZodiac]

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I wonder how exactly Barry's deed at the season 2 ending is going to change the timeline?

Assuming that Barry actually murdered Professor Zoom, that would mean that Eobard Thawne never took Harrison Well's identity and made Star Labs a few years early. And if that never happened, then that would mean that Cisco, Ronnie, Caitlin, and Hartley wouldn't be brought in to work for Star Labs, and there would be no particle accelerator explosion which created the meta-humans.

And if I remember correctly, there was an episode in Arrow (season 3 I believe) where Oliver's team had to be saved by the Flash. Although from what I've heard, the Flashpoint paradox is not going to do much to affect Arrow.

From what I can see, the alternate timeline is either going to be pretty catastrophic or really mundane. Did the writers think of any of this when they made the cliffhanger?

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Well remember that the OG Wells-1 was gonna make Star Labs anyway, so...we'll see I guess.

My guess is this is all leading towards a big Flashpoint Paradox event that shoves Supergirl into Earth-1 somehow so they can all be together. Others have said it, but it just feels worth repeating. That's probably where this is going.

[Jayngfet]

The ending is just insulting.
"Hey, remember everything that happened in this season? Naaaa, forget it, we'll just start over".

The more impact it will have, the worse it will be.
Arrow finally had something that we can consider a happy ending (if you ignore 10,000 deaths by a nuke), so I don't want any impact on that.

To be fair, the writers seemed to be ignoring that, so I guess we should too.

Anyway this season of the flash was incredibly lackluster. Like to an insane degree. Reusing the previous season's plot twists. Self contradictory rules on time travel. Too much time spent hmming and hawing over characters and romances that went nowhere. Zoom was the most boring villain ever because for most of the season he had no motivation or lines beyond how eeeeevil he was and how he's totally gonna get you. Mysteries like the real Jay Garrick are held on for a good half dozen episodes past when everyone and their mother figured it out.

[Drakeburn]

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Well remember that the OG Wells-1 was gonna make Star Labs anyway, so...we'll see I guess.

My guess is this is all leading towards a big Flashpoint Paradox event that shoves Supergirl into Earth-1 somehow so they can all be together. Others have said it, but it just feels worth repeating. That's probably where this is going.

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Yeah, but Eobard Thawne made it happen sooner. So unless Barry Allen somehow lands in that time, or somehow convinces the real Harrison Wells to help him, this would be a really dull-ish season.

[themaque]

Anything they do will probably take INFLUENCES from Flashpoint but this isn't the same flash or universe. This won't be THAT story.

The only problem I have is... ugh.

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Barry, 2 episodes you just made peace with your mothers death. Your fathers death, while cruel, shouldn't be spiral you so far out as you just got your dream of the woman you love saying she loves you and wants to see where this goes.

They literally undead all his character growth in 5 minutes and I can't defend that. yeah yeah Iris (Who I no longer hate thanks to this season) said "I support you, do what you must" but that doesn't mean playing craps with the universe.

[BWR]

While I hate the reversal of character growth, I accept it in these shows like I accept stupid use of superpowers - part and parcel of the genre.

I'm actually hoping the writers will handle this another way than showing that time travel is basically Things Man Was Not Meant To Mess With: they will see it through and not revert to 'Barry's family must be torn apart' later on, like they did the last time this happened. In a very real way, it's correcting another instance of time travel mucking about, namely RF and Barry's fight where his mother is killed. That event stopped what would otherwise be a (hopefully) pleasant middle-class upbringing without tragedy.
The ripple effects that result would be fun to see, primarily the change in his relationship to the Wests. I love Joe and his paternal relationship and it would be fun to see Barry wrestle with the loss of Joe-the-father balanced against his parents being alive and present, but coming to accept it.
In short, I'd like to see long-term changes because of time travel that actually work as intended for once. By all means, have a 'the devil you know' situation but having it always fail and make things worse is getting tiresome.

[Pex]

While I hate the reversal of character growth, I accept it in these shows like I accept stupid use of superpowers - part and parcel of the genre.

I'm actually hoping the writers will handle this another way than showing that time travel is basically Things Man Was Not Meant To Mess With: they will see it through and not revert to 'Barry's family must be torn apart' later on, like they did the last time this happened. In a very real way, it's correcting another instance of time travel mucking about, namely RF and Barry's fight where his mother is killed. That event stopped what would otherwise be a (hopefully) pleasant middle-class upbringing without tragedy.
The ripple effects that result would be fun to see, primarily the change in his relationship to the Wests. I love Joe and his paternal relationship and it would be fun to see Barry wrestle with the loss of Joe-the-father balanced against his parents being alive and present, but coming to accept it.
In short, I'd like to see long-term changes because of time travel that actually work as intended for once. By all means, have a 'the devil you know' situation but having it always fail and make things worse is getting tiresome.

Tangent but related, that's what I loved about "Eureka". A time travel episode changed the show's "present", and it stayed that way. Better, when they went back in time again to the same era, they still did not go back to the original timeline. As a viewer it took getting use to the new status quo. While changes were significant in character, the show didn't change its overall structure. That was something never done before, and I was applauding.

If they do that with Flash, maybe I can "get over it". Have it not be Dystopian World. Barry has his Mom & Dad. He's still Flash because the real Dr. Wells built the particle accelerator earlier than he intended for whatever reason. There are still metahumans. He and Iris can still be a couple, though not necessary. It was easier for them because they didn't grow up together. As in Earth 2 Joe can be disapproving of the relationship. Not even Robbie Amell needs to be back, with or without his shirt. Just have things different but not overwhelmingly bad Barry comes to regret his action and has to fix it. Have him "win" even if for drama purposes it's not a total, complete happy unicorns and rainbows win.

[Pronounceable]

If Barry's mom wasn't murdered, he would grow up to be some random unremarkable guy whose personality would have nothing to do with Barry we know (like Barry2). Which basically destroys the basis of entire series, not to mention retconning away everything Flash related at Arrow. The reason why that doesn't happen will be explained as Speedforce.

[BWR]

Do we know that? Why couldn't he grow up boring, get hit by lightning, get powers and be a good guy hero anyway?

[Hopeless]

If only they treated time travel properly this might not turn out how he expects.

Originally Nora Allen was killed by an intruder and not Reverse Flash so if they do this properly all that changes is that the Reverse Flash didn't succeed in killing Nora and fled back to the future because he didn't mess up the time stream.

That mess was the fact his run into the past drew the Flash along with him so by driving off the Reverse Flash should erase everything the Reverse Flash did restoring Eddie and more importantly Barry's dad and everyone else the Reverse Flash killed between killing Nora and before Eddie shot himself.

That should also seal up the breach, but would require Barry who should retain all memories of this time to figure out a way to breach into Earth 2 and deal with Zoom rescuing Jay along with meeting Super Girl as I believe that was where Jay claimed to come from wasn't it?

We could be introduced to Harrison's wife and their version of his daughter, more importantly I suspect Barry's interference may still lead to them getting powers although they might not remember how and why.

You know that repeated travel into the past might have been the source of Barry's powers as well as the Particle Accelerator accident rather than it sparking his powers now that would be quite a nasty revelation wouldn't it?

So assume Barry tries to maintain the timeline probably remembering the Pied Piper so he remained good.

If this was the case would Black Siren be still stuck in containment or would Barry use this opportunity to save Laurel insuring she didn't die?

There's a lot of way this could be done right but given previous developments I'm just hoping they don't screw this up!

[themaque]

If Barry's mom wasn't murdered, he would grow up to be some random unremarkable guy whose personality would have nothing to do with Barry we know (like Barry2). Which basically destroys the basis of entire series, not to mention retconning away everything Flash related at Arrow. The reason why that doesn't happen will be explained as Speedforce.

He still might grow up to be the Barry we know and love, as that's what happened in the comics. Nora Allen's death was a retcon that happened latter in the series with Flash; Rebirth thanks to ZOOM. Originally Barry was a nice guy who became a forensic investigator to help people. Dorky, Slow, & Methodical he was a good guy who wanted to help people.

That doesn't sound TOO far off from the Barry we know. Who I felt had more than a little Wally (Who was much more impulsive) thrown into the character. This could really help showcase how both Barry and Wally make great, yet diffrent, Flashes.

ALSO I want to hear him say "And that's a Flash Fact!" at some point after he uses science to beat up a villain because I'm dorky like that. (Flash Fact is the old school version of SCIENCE B@#$)

EDIT: See how I contradict myself there? That show's I'm good at speech and internetz and stuff. -hangs head in shame-

[Antonok]

So who's life dream was it to see Draco Malfoy in The Flash?

And they did confirm they're doing the Flashpoint series, but supposedly it's going to be very different from the comics.