Strong Female Protagonist II

[virgileso]

Oh, he didn't like not being special in exactly the right way? That's rather less interesting than, well, literally anything that would justify his position. Tougher to persuade, though, so I guess this is optimizing for giving Alison a hard time.

It's not that it's not exactly the right sort of power, it's precisely the antithesis of his functional world-view. It requires mutual cooperation and consent to be useful. Within the relationship between him and the biodynamic(s) he enhances, he relies on them to make his power relevant, while they are still flying and shooting lasers without him. There wouldn't even be a fame advantage, because making the other stronger is definitely not the way to get yourself accolades.

[137beth]

He doesn't like the idea of being part of a team. He wants to feel like he is capable of doing everything himself. His power would effectively force him to work with others, which violates his idea of "freedom."

[The_Snark]

That reaction is pretty understandable from a 14-year-old kid excited about superpowers (and apparently with some sort of issues re freedom already; controlling parents?). It's somewhat less sympathetic coming from an adult.

On the other hand... he's telling Allison about this, despite the fact that it's an emotionally fraught subject for him and they aren't on the best of terms. I'm not quite sure what that means but I feel like it's a good sign.

[Maryring]

Yeah. I'd be a lot more empathetic if he was still 14 years old. But as an adult, I've got far less empathy.

Then again, Al frankly doesn't have any idea what that would feel like. Al has won the super-power lottery. She didn't just get a prize. She got the grand prize. She's invulnerable, superstrong, can fly. All the good stuff. And she's not the place where Max can get any sort of empathy.

[Frozen_Feet]

I get the feeling there's a grander story behind Max that's yet untold. Specifically, I'd like to know how and how badly his parents were controlling, because these flashbacks suggest it was pretty bad.

[Traab]

Yeah. I'd be a lot more empathetic if he was still 14 years old. But as an adult, I've got far less empathy.

Then again, Al frankly doesn't have any idea what that would feel like. Al has won the super-power lottery. She didn't just get a prize. She got the grand prize. She's invulnerable, superstrong, can fly. All the good stuff. And she's not the place where Max can get any sort of empathy.

Yep, she is super girl without laser vision and has no real clue how to deal with something like this. On the other hand, the potential for a real sympathy angle? /phbbbbt! He still has this pathological need to never ever be "told what to do" I wouldnt be surprised if he had to self study his way through everything because he burned down every school they sent him too because the teachers wouldnt stop "trying to control him" or some sort of stupidity. Dude needs to see a shrink, but im not going to tell him that, I dont feel like setting off his rage trigger by pointing out the obvious.

[Sapphire Guard]

That sounds like exactly the kind of power that would get you chained to a wall in some supervillain lair. I really hope there's more to this story.

[Morquard]

Well everyones powers are getting stronger.
Which means, his might be getting stronger too. So instead of just enhancing the 5 people around him, his influence might encompass the city, state or hell even the whole world eventually, pushing the power spiral even further, as he enhances everyone even more (except himself of course).

Or what if that increase in power everyone is experiencing is exactly because of him? Al didn't get stronger or anything, she's just constantly buffed now. (though that wouldn't explain why his power grew to begin with, so that's unlikely)

All that depends of course, if its a passive power and just be near him is enough, or if he has to consciously enhance someone.

[Bilious]

I suspect it's because of Max that Alison can now fly.

[137beth]

Then again, Al frankly doesn't have any idea what that would feel like. Al has won the super-power lottery. She didn't just get a prize. She got the grand prize. She's invulnerable, superstrong, can fly. All the good stuff. And she's not the place where Max can get any sort of empathy.

But that's the catch, isn't it? Allison doesn't have the best powers: her powers are really good for fighting other people with superpowers. They aren't really useful for anything else, hence her lack of direction for much of the series. Max has a power than can actually help other people, as do Feral and Patrick to a lesser extent. Allison wants to fix the problems she sees in the world, but she doesn't really have any ability to do so beyond what normal people can do.

[Vinyadan]

They aren't really useful for anything else, hence her lack of direction for much of the series.

Massive strength and invulnerability are useful for pretty much anything, even just when buying food for barbecuing. The only downside I can think of is if you need to be operated, but now there is a substance to cut Ali, so even that isn't a problem.

I like the idea that powers actually haven't been evolving, it's Max who is going out of scale. But even if that were the case, did it need 80 pages to get here?

[Maryring]

But that's the catch, isn't it? Allison doesn't have the best powers: her powers are really good for fighting other people with superpowers. They aren't really useful for anything else, hence her lack of direction for much of the series. Max has a power than can actually help other people, as do Feral and Patrick to a lesser extent. Allison wants to fix the problems she sees in the world, but she doesn't really have any ability to do so beyond what normal people can do.

No. Her powers are highly useful when it comes to law enforcement, but it's also useful for charity. Just imagine the good she could have done protecting relief aid shipments in areas of conflict. Depending on how quickly she flies she could replace airplane delivery for vital, time-sensitive shipments. Her ability to lift pretty much anything would make her the best thing to happen for any search and rescue team for collapsed buildings. Her powers are incredible and have so much use, but instead of using her powers to do good, she... studies philosophy. Something anyone and everyone can do. Sure. Philosophy is useful, but she's not using her powers for all the good they could be used for.

So... yeah. She does have the best powers when the metric is "powers with a wide range of applicability that adds no risk to the self."

[Kantaki]

No. Her powers are highly useful when it comes to law enforcement, but it's also useful for charity. Just imagine the good she could have done protecting relief aid shipments in areas of conflict. Depending on how quickly she flies she could replace airplane delivery for vital, time-sensitive shipments. Her ability to lift pretty much anything would make her the best thing to happen for any search and rescue team for collapsed buildings. Her powers are incredible and have so much use, but instead of using her powers to do good, she... studies philosophy. Something anyone and everyone can do. Sure. Philosophy is useful, but she's not using her powers for all the good they could be used for.

So... yeah. She does have the best powers when the metric is "powers with a wide range of applicability that adds no risk to the self."

Well, at least the flying part is a relative recent part of her power set and going to fast makes it override her invulnerableness so it makes sense she isn't using it much (yet).

And she is studying philosophy because she wants to find a way to actually fix the problems instead of treating the symptoms- remember her single-stroke-solution thing -not to mention that she is actively doing good with her work as a firefighter (or doesn't that count for some reason?) and whatever she intents to do with Valkyrie (even if the project is still in it's babyshoes right now).

[Dragonus45]

But that's the catch, isn't it? Allison doesn't have the best powers: her powers are really good for fighting other people with superpowers. They aren't really useful for anything else, hence her lack of direction for much of the series. Max has a power than can actually help other people, as do Feral and Patrick to a lesser extent. Allison wants to fix the problems she sees in the world, but she doesn't really have any ability to do so beyond what normal people can do.

Her powers would be startlingly useful anywhere. Not even just for things like construction or other jobs where just being THAT strong would be game changing. Her other powers could also be great imagine what she could do for deep sea exploration or anything else that being almost literally invulnerable could do for research or other dangerous jobs. At the end of the day her problem isn't that she can't help people with her powers its that she can't help ALL the people with her powers perfectly and she can't seem to settle for less than perfect.

[Shogo]

I don't think she'd be able to contribute to deep sea research in the way that, I'm assuming, you're imagining.

Pretty sure she still needs to breath. So even if she herself wouldn't get obliterated by water pressure, things like the oxygen tanks she would need to go deep sea diving would still be a limiting factor.

And I can feel for the Max that was desperate enough to have powers that he did stuff like break his ankles jumping off roofs in the hope that he'd be able to fly. I also get how someone who so desperately wants to be special would react poorly to having a power that makes people who are already special even more special.

Though the amount that I can feel for him will probably depend on what kind of a home life he had to be this damn desperate despite being born into wealth. At the very least, I'm hoping there's more to how angry he gets at the mere suggestion of being told what to do than him just being an entitled bastard.

I'd also need a better idea of how his powers work. It's one thing if he can boost someone from the safety of a secure base, with others needing to come back every now and then to get topped back up. It's another if people were expecting him to be right in the thick of clashes between supers.

[Lethologica]

Weighty moment undermined by unclear stakes. Max's intransigence appears due not to exceptionally traumatic past, but rather to entitlement + Alison's browbeating. Said browbeating is perhaps not the best segue into impassioned plea for assistance, but of course that's the point.

[Leewei]

I have no pity for Max. Not much patience at all for Alison at this point, either.

[Traab]

Unless his follow up story was all about how he was forced to act as a battery for some group of b listers who needed their powers boosted to be of any use as heroes, never allowed to take part, always left as a spectator after giving them their juice for the day, I have to quote some pithy song lyrics and say, "My give a damn is busted" Honestly, im still waiting to hear exactly why he turns into an enraged lunatic at the very notion of anyone telling him what to do, up to and including passing the salt.

[Kantaki]

Like little children...

I can't say I agree with either side there.

But honestly? While I still think that he needs some sense beaten into him I'm almost feeling a bit bad for Max after this page.
What he says in the first panel about his mother not wanting him to be part of the freakshow kinda seems like a quote, which would make his resentment of his power somewhat understandable.
Doesn't sound like the happiest childhood. Explains why he wanted superpowers- why he tried to fly -and why he hates the one he got.
He wanted/wants freedom and got a power that ties him to others.
(Okay, he is still part of a rich powerful family, but it sounds like a golden cage)
He is still a giant jerk, but maybe someone less... blunt, more... understanding, more patient than Alison might be more successful in convincing him to help.

As it is we get two strongheaded... children who could both use a few (refreshing) courses in empathy, and in Al’s case diplomacy, butting heads until someone cries.

[Nettlekid]

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to find Allison at all sympathetic here. She's kind of all over the place. She preaches about respecting people and at the same time refuses to respect Max's wishes that she leave his house, a request he has every right to make and she has no right to refuse. She's also trying to get his help, but is criticizing him whenever she can. And even as she berates him about privilege, she refuses to actually acknowledge how her powers are better than so many others'. I certainly think that Max is selfish, but no one has the right to demand that he not be. He has as much right not to use his power as all the people at Brad's dynamorph group that don't want to be superheroes.

[Traab]

Ok so they are both freaking idiots. She is a trespasser right now, and also an idiot for not just insulting him, but insulting him a LOT then asking him for his help. He is a whiny little brat with his own massive issues and a lot of what she said is totally accurate. This entire argument is stupid beyond belief. And its only the fact that we STILL dont know what the heck she wants him to do and why its so important that he do it that keeps me from just dropping the entire comic. Although right now it feels like some sort of massively screwed up allegory for multiple issues. Sort of like when she went to that batspit crazy dynomorphs support group for supers who look super strange.

[Vinyadan]

Although right now it feels like some sort of massively screwed up allegory for multiple issues.

I completely agree (although I don't know it you mean issues as comic issues or personal issues). I was actually thinking about it earlier, and I realized something: scenes in which Ali doesn't appear are very rare. I can only think of the one scene in which Oven discovered he wasn't long for this world. There sure are others, but they are a vanishingly small portion. Most character we see, we only see them in relation to how they act towards Ali. We only see this little slice of them. This is why there are no characters in this comic beside Ali, just a bunch of allegories, because no character is being developed, they are just cardboards to express something else. Normally you get a scene in which secondary characters speak among themselves to explain why they do what they do, what they aim for, you see that they are worried or something, and so on. Here, there are no such things. People only interact with Ali, often in 1-1 dialogues, each one of them allegorising something or being supposed to show a different angle to see social issues.

There's also the fact that the author isn't exactly great with dialogues, so people look like mannequins more than they should.

[Traab]

Well by allegories I meant like how the support group thing alison visited seemed to be a massive combination of real life comparisons to safe spaces, trans rights, and how there is a support group for every permutation of race, religion, sexual preference, gender identification etc out there and all want you to check your privilege if you arent a part of their very specific subset. It was a very complicated mess and made it kind of hard to figure it all out and I just feel like this whole discussion going on currently is trying to be an allegory also, I just cant be sure exactly what because it feels like it has elements of a lot of real life issues and its just getting started.

[Lost Demiurge]

Hmm...

Spoiler

Show

"If people find out about me, that's it!"

"That's it! That'd be the end of me."

"There is risk involved Alison, I am putting myself on the line for you. You can't convince me otherwise."

Two ways to look at this.

One is that he realizes just how tempting he'd be to surviving supervillains or powers who might be tempted to grab him for a boost.

Two is that there IS a conspiracy to keep supers within certain margins, and that he knows something about it. Enough to be afraid.

This is interesting. Food for thought, anyway.

[Kantaki]

Finally he has gotten through to Alison.
I hope. Wouldn't be good if proves the prof. right and turns into a tyrant there.

I doubt she will, but some of the stuff she said could be read as being a little bit... blackmail-ly.
Especially the part about the information already being out.

Still not liking Max, but that doesn't change that he has the right to choose how he (doesn’t) use his power.
Honestly, with the wayAl acted there I would have said no too.

[Traab]

Finally he has gotten through to Alison.
I hope. Wouldn't be good if proves the prof. right and turns into a tyrant there.

I doubt she will, but some of the stuff she said could be read as being a little bit... blackmail-ly.
Especially the part about the information already being out.

Still not liking Max, but that doesn't change that he has the right to choose how he (doesn’t) use his power.
Honestly, with the wayAl acted there I would have said no too.

Nah in this case he is pure moron. She wasnt saying anything blackmailish, just pointing out that if she can find his secret, so can others. And now he officially admits he is nothing more than a sentient ball of spite. His excuses were exactly that, excuses. Not legitimate reasons to refuse. His only real reason is spite. And of course he has the right to make that choice, doesnt change the type of loser that he is.

[The Glyphstone]

So he's spent two and a half weeks saying no. Can we move on to something relevant now?

[Traab]

New theory time! Allison is in a coma. WAIT! Its not one of those St Elsewhere type setups! Whats happening is, in the real world, Allison slipped over from hero to tyrant. She started using her powers to force people to act how she wanted them to, justice lords style at the very least. She was eventually stopped but they realized they couldnt kill her, her powers had already advanced well past where they are in this comic. They COULD however, try to reprogram her.

It took a coalition, including her mind reader former evil friend, the inventor lady, and a few others, but the goal is to basically lead her down the garden path, giving her all sorts of moralistic lessons to try and show her why her path was wrong and what the better choices are. So they reset her mentally to the point where she was getting disillusioned about heroics and how effective they were and had her take another path. Thats why so many of these encounters are ham handed attempts to teach her a lesson in ethics and morality. She is learning where the lines are, how blurry they can be, and that there is no one true way to be a decent person. Thats also why her powers are advancing again. As she learns more and more, she unlocks her abilities as her maturity rises to meet the level needed to handle them. By the time she is basically a goddess made flesh, she will hopefully understand that she doesnt have the right to enforce her world view on everyone around her. They can only hope they are able to contain her until the lesson is learned, because if she wakes up before then, the world is doomed.

[Kantaki]

I like this theory.

The only question is is she learning the lesson? Or is she (still) on the path to become Empress Alison I?

Because right now it could go either way.

[Morquard]

But that would mean that the author is doing the ham handedness on purpose, isn't it? Somehow I have my doubts about that.

It would explain a few things, but there have been no hints at this theory yet.