Strong Female Protagonist II

[Traab]

I like this theory.

The only question is is she learning the lesson? Or is she (still) on the path to become Empress Alison I?

Because right now it could go either way.

I dunno, she has been learning at least bits and pieces like there is no one grand simple solution to solve the worlds problems, you know, like, "DO AS I SAY!" Also, she did get the whole path of the tyrant angle shoved down her throat pretty solidly. As well as the side lesson that just because people dont go along with your "obvious" solution, doesnt make them evil or bad people. She is learning about the vast realm of grey in between her black and white world view.

But that would mean that the author is doing the ham handedness on purpose, isn't it? Somehow I have my doubts about that.

It would explain a few things, but there have been no hints at this theory yet.

The only hints ARE the ham handedness. Aside from that you are right, but this comic has been pretty clearly setup to teach allison a large number of lessons over the course of the story. It could just be heavy handed character growth arcs, or it could be kind of meta where the author is intentionally making these heavy handed moralistic sermons because thats what the people trying to reach allison are after.

I dont honestly believe this theory, but I do think its an amusing and interesting one that fits well with what we have seen so far. Everything revolves around allison in some way, and pretty much all of it has a lesson she needs to learn. Its either a fairly strong mary sue setup, or there could be a deeper meaning behind it. I dont mean mary sue in that she is a flawless always wins special snowflake. But she is the sole focus of this story. The closest we got to her NOT being the focus was the whole thing with her invisible friend and fire boy. But even that ended up bringing in all sorts of moral and ethical questions she had to deal with. She is also pretty special, but unlike many of the really terribad sues, her specialness is also a part of her problems. Its like way back towards the start with the really angry professor. How can she understand the human condition when she is basically a god compared to a regular human? (Yeah he was a lot meaner about it but the point was a good one) But that brings it all back to her. Everything we see is setup specifically for her to learn and grow from.

[Sapphire Guard]

This scene is really being hurt by us missing the first half. Did she tell him about the conspiracy? What is his power, and how does it work? What is her plan? This is information we need to make sense of the arguments, but it doesn't seem to be missing for any reason other than suspense.

[Maryring]

Good lord. The comic comment field is horrifying and disgusting. Yeah, Max is a grade A derp, but I am not comfortable with all the people that say that Max should be forced to do whatever Al wants to do.

[Leewei]

Good lord. The comic comment field is horrifying and disgusting. Yeah, Max is a grade A derp, but I am not comfortable with all the people that say that Max should be forced to do whatever Al wants to do.

Alison, thankfully, seems to be taking the high road. The only question is whether she moves on with or without a parting shot.

[Maryring]

Alison, thankfully, seems to be taking the high road. The only question is whether she moves on with or without a parting shot.

...

You were saying?

Actually, not sure if I am amused. That is horrifying.

[Kantaki]

That's less slippery slope and more jumping into the abyss head first...
Oh well, since she has choosen to walk this path:

LONG LIVE THE EMPRESS! LONG LIVE DARTH ALISON I!

[Fjolnir]

That took a turn right over the moral event horizon...

[Morquard]

And we're still have no clue what she originally asked him to do for her organization. Make her even more invulnerable so the abusive husbands can't punch their way through her to their wifes? Oh right, they couldn't before. Make her even stronger so she can grind those husbands into fine paste? Nope she could do that too.

And I don't think I agree with "Do what the **** I say or I let you drown in the middle of the atlantic" counts as a "base-level decent, no brainer request". Nope, that's full on evil mode. Patrick would be proud.

What does she think will happen after this forced demonstration? She notices she can now breach Mach 15 with his help and whatnot, now suddenly he's going to realize "Oh yeah, helping is fun"?! Hell no, he's going to be even more against it. So she gotta kidnap him and tie him up and force him every time. Hope she at least decorates her villain lair nicely.

[Lethologica]

yada yada reasoning of a tyrant yada yada

funny, usually it goes from workplace interaction to relationship violence, not the other way around

and now we're gonna add either patrick or lisa to this equation

sounds fantaaaaaaastic

[Deliverance]

Good lord. The comic comment field is horrifying and disgusting. Yeah, Max is a grade A derp, but I am not comfortable with all the people that say that Max should be forced to do whatever Al wants to do.

Yeah, I can't wait to see how the Alison-apologists in the comic comment field will spin this one.

And how their justification would look if the situation was genderflipped and it was a strong man doing violence to a vulnerable woman and threatening to abduct her and force her to do his bidding on the pain of death.

"Don't cry, it won't hurt as much if you don't struggle. Just satisfy my reasonable needs for the next four hours and I'll return you unharmed rather than killing you."

[Lost Demiurge]

Welcome to the dark side, Alison. Enjoy the cookies!

[Leewei]

Yeah, I can't wait to see how the Alison-apologists in the comic comment field will spin this one.

I've pretty much lost any respect for Alison at this point. The only thing that keeps me interested is the notion that something not yet shown on the comic explains this behavior.

[Dragonus45]

Yeah, I can't wait to see how the Alison-apologists in the comic comment field will spin this one.

And how their justification would look if the situation was genderflipped and it was a strong man doing violence to a vulnerable woman and threatening to abduct her and force her to do his bidding on the pain of death.

"Don't cry, it won't hurt as much if you don't struggle. Just satisfy my reasonable needs for the next four hours and I'll return you unharmed rather than killing you."

I imagine the phrase priveledge will come up, as since he is a rich white male he STILL outranks superwoman on the progressive stack, followed by the usual lack of understanding of consent those types show when a person in a position of having what they feel they need says no to them, then some after the fact justifications involving greater goods and needs of the many that sidestep all those other things they like to talk about like the aforementioned need for consent.

[Shogo]

And his mother is a member of Congress.

While there isn't a lot people can do to stop her, if she wants to continue thinking of herself as a law abiding citizen . . . Well . . . There are a lot of ways that Max's family can **** with her.

[Deliverance]

I've pretty much lost any respect for Alison at this point. The only thing that keeps me interested is the notion that something not yet shown on the comic explains this behavior.

Oh, it is trivial to explain her behaviour.

First, she's NEVER dealt well with adversity, doesn't understand other people and have trouble relating to others than her family, and that she has a tendency to lash out when frustrated. That's a thing that the comic has dealt with several times, even as it shows that she's somewhat aware that she's missing something due to effectively being brought up as a child soldier and that she is trying to learn, which is to her credit, and why I was so happy to see the Gurwara strips; She may mean well, but so long as she doesn't understand and accept others' rights to hold opposing opinions for whatever reason, she's an accident waiting to happen.

Add to that, that she's emotionally unstable were Max is concerned. Teenagers/young adults with roaring hormones are the last people on earth who should have superpowers - they are bad enough as they are. The Max sequence has taken weeks for us, but we are talking a few days in-comic since their first date.

And let's face it, she has very few defense mechanisms that restrain her when her feelings are involved rather than her intellect.

See her reaction/overreaction to Patrick when he tried to manipulate her into not loving him (or whatever it was he was doing), her rapid jumping from one conclusion to another without taking any intermediate steps, something that under Patrick's needling ultimately led her to forgetting her one reasoned conclusion, "what are you afraid of?" in favour of a simplistic "it must be because you can't read your own mind, I'm out of here, do what I want or else."

Or see how she acted when Feral got killed (she got better).

Or her initial conversation with Daniel talking about her love of destruction.

As I see it, all that is required for her to freak out like this towards somebody whom she has very recently been very attracted to, then rejected publicly in a rude manner, and then learned something that made his help so important to her that she was willing to apologize for her behaviour, something that she's not good at, is that the thing she learned would really matter to her personally.


So if you want a simple explanation, the very simplest is that Alison has convinced herself that she can use Max some way that will cure her cancer in general, or perhaps just the type(s) her father is suffering from, a quick miraculous solution to one of her major current problems. How? Supercharging the healing in his body, supercharging Feral's abilities to generate implants, supercharging Lisa's intellect, or some other way I haven't thought of. Whatever. Preferably some method that can be widely applied later on, to "save the world" (or at least bits of it). The point is that Alison believes it, and believes it

Probably not what the author is going for as it is the very simplest explanation, but it is certainly one that given her love for her father and general personality would explain her actions, both in returning, apologizing, and begging for help (err, well, what qualifies as begging for Alision; let's just say she isn't good at it) - and being willing to do whatever it takes when she's rejected.

On the other hand, IF it is something that simple the author is going for, it certainly explains why this isn't explained up front.

If it was explained up front, I bet a lot more people would feel comfortable with Alison trampling all over Max's rights, "knowing" that she was acting in a good cause and one the reader might be emotionally involved in after the earlier chapters, rather than the reader thinking about what Alison is actually doing to another human being - and the latter, of course, is what the entire chapter is about: Alison's growth as a human being and her remaining limitations due to a stunted adolescence.

[Officer Joy]

Yeah, I give it a few weeks, but if the comic doensn't treat Al in the wrong here, I can't possibly continiue reading.

[JeenLeen]

I really like this move by Allison. She definitively believes it is not okay to be a selfish jerk, and she has trouble understanding why people are like that. She tolerates it in normal humans as long as it's reasonable (not trying to roofie a girl, not a mob killing Feral, etc.). Cool. I think it's good she didn't threaten her professor for saying she still gets an F.

She finds a super who exemplifies 'selfish jerk' and who refuses to listen to apologies or reason. She goes on the offensive and forces him to cooperate.

Eh, I'm writing poorly right now. Anyway, I like this. Moreso for her using his own rhetoric against him ("creating an incentive structure"). Did he ever call her "sweetheart" in that denigrating fashion earlier?

This actually seems somewhat in line with her not taking any more of Patrick's BS and giving him a year to solve the conspiracy or she goes to the cops.
---
I'm also curious to see how his political connections stand up to the standard "the law ignores she killed a dude and threatened to kill a mob."

[Kantaki]

I really like this move by Allison. She definitively believes it is not okay to be a selfish jerk, and she has trouble understanding why people are like that. She tolerates it in normal humans as long as it's reasonable (not trying to roofie a girl, not a mob killing Feral, etc.). Cool. I think it's good she didn't threaten her professor for saying she still gets an F.

She finds a super who exemplifies 'selfish jerk' and who refuses to listen to apologies or reason. She goes on the offensive and forces him to cooperate.

Eh, I'm writing poorly right now. Anyway, I like this. Moreso for her using his own rhetoric against him ("creating an incentive structure"). Did he ever call her "sweetheart" in that denigrating fashion earlier?

This actually seems somewhat in line with her not taking any more of Patrick's BS and giving him a year to solve the conspiracy or she goes to the cops.
---
I'm also curious to see how his political connections stand up to the standard "the law ignores she killed a dude and threatened to kill a mob."

Sorry, but what?
Max might be a jerk, but that doesn't mean Al has any right to ignore that he said no to her.
Or does his usefulness to Alison’s plans override his right of consent?

Would it be alright if she did the same to Sonar’s support group?
Or Patrick?
If the roles were reversed?

Because I don't see any difference.
Even if this helps her to save the world in a single stroke it is just wrong.

As much as he and his attitude annoys me, Max has the same right to choose how he doesn't use his power as anyone else.

Alison is crossing a line there. And if she continues this path it will lead her to a very scary place.

[Lethologica]

Yeah, I give it a few weeks, but if the comic doensn't treat Al in the wrong here, I can't possibly continiue reading.

It already is. Just look at the framing of the panels, the shading used for Alison, the various poses. The art is in agreement with the story that Serious Line-Crossing has happened. Now it's time to speculate about the nature and magnitude of Alison's comeuppance, as well as what motivated her to cross the line.

Also, re: various people anticipating SFP comments being a ****hole full of Alison apologia, not really seeing it now that comments are up. But then, I don't exactly go delving into the downvoted depths.

[Vinyadan]

I really like this move by Allison. She definitively believes it is not okay to be a selfish jerk, and she has trouble understanding why people are like that. She tolerates it in normal humans as long as it's reasonable (not trying to roofie a girl, not a mob killing Feral, etc.). Cool. I think it's good she didn't threaten her professor for saying she still gets an F.

She finds a super who exemplifies 'selfish jerk' and who refuses to listen to apologies or reason. She goes on the offensive and forces him to cooperate.

There's a very nice line in the book "The World According to Garp", which pretty much boils down to this: it is possible for a moderate person who wishes for moderation by anyone to become an extremist when facing extremists. It isn't a good or coherent thing. The same goes for becoming a jerk when enforcing participation.

[JeenLeen]

Sorry, but what?
Max might be a jerk, but that doesn't mean Al has any right to ignore that he said no to her.
Or does his usefulness to Alison’s plans override his right of consent?

Would it be alright if she did the same to Sonar’s support group?
Or Patrick?
If the roles were reversed?

Because I don't see any difference.
Even if this helps her to save the world in a single stroke it is just wrong.

As much as he and his attitude annoys me, Max has the same right to choose how he doesn't use his power as anyone else.

Alison is crossing a line there. And if she continues this path it will lead her to a very scary place.

After some thought after reading your comment, I think that part of the appeal is that I like it when, in media (books, movies, video games, comics), the characters are successful and proactive in cool ways. The morality of it, as long as it's not incredibly evil, doesn't factor into it too heavily.

I would agree Alison doesn't have a right, and she is (probably) being hypocritical by forcing someone to work against his will when she generally is for protecting others. However, she is actively trying to work for a better world and he is, at least in a selfish and petty way, kinda evil. Since he uses his social position to enforce his will on others in a petty-evil way, it's satisfying rather than scary to see her enforce her will upon him.

I admit the above sounds a bit amoral to evil after re-reading it.

To the Sonar's group/Patrick: I would feel it 'wrong' for her to manipulate Sonar's group, but reasonably to manipulate Patrick. He is evil and an ends-justify-the-means sorta guy. After their interactions, I can see her at least trying to force him. (I'd be hesitant about it because, despite his confusion when they last spoke, he probably could manipulate her in the end, so as a pragmatic move it's wise not to involve him.)

Thanks for the feedback. It led to some fun introspection. (My response to real-life would likely be different than to fiction.)

[The Glyphstone]

If this was any other comics, I'd expect this whole thing to be a dream sequence of some kind. She's gone absolutely psycho.

[Traab]

If this was any other comics, I'd expect this whole thing to be a dream sequence of some kind. She's gone absolutely psycho.

If it isnt something like that then I expect there to be some huge personal breakdown on her part once what she is doing sinks in.

[137beth]

So how can he fight back? The next day, can he go and tell people Allison kidnapped him? But then he'd need an explanation as to what she was doing, which he might not want to provide. "Allison forcibly grabbed me and flew me around and threatened to drop me in the ocean unless I...uh...did something? But I don't want to say what that something is?"

Alternatively, he could just start spreading complete lies about her.

Whatever it is, he can't just let Allison get away with what she's doing without any sort of repercussions.

Yeah, I can't wait to see how the Alison-apologists in the comic comment field will spin this one.

And how their justification would look if the situation was genderflipped and it was a strong man doing violence to a vulnerable woman and threatening to abduct her and force her to do his bidding on the pain of death.

"Don't cry, it won't hurt as much if you don't struggle. Just satisfy my reasonable needs for the next four hours and I'll return you unharmed rather than killing you."

Someone in the comic comments suggested that the reason Max was unwilling to go along with Allison's plan was because Patrick had visited him earlier in the day, and pushed all his buttons to put him on the defensive so that he would reject anything Al said.
...Which, if it were true, might make Max seem like slightly less of a douche. It wouldn't excuse Allison though, obviously.

[Kantaki]

After some thought after reading your comment, I think that part of the appeal is that I like it when, in media (books, movies, video games, comics), the characters are successful and proactive in cool ways. The morality of it, as long as it's not incredibly evil, doesn't factor into it too heavily.

I would agree Alison doesn't have a right, and she is (probably) being hypocritical by forcing someone to work against his will when she generally is for protecting others. However, she is actively trying to work for a better world and he is, at least in a selfish and petty way, kinda evil. Since he uses his social position to enforce his will on others in a petty-evil way, it's satisfying rather than scary to see her enforce her will upon him.

I admit the above sounds a bit amoral to evil after re-reading it.

To the Sonar's group/Patrick: I would feel it 'wrong' for her to manipulate Sonar's group, but reasonably to manipulate Patrick. He is evil and an ends-justify-the-means sorta guy. After their interactions, I can see her at least trying to force him. (I'd be hesitant about it because, despite his confusion when they last spoke, he probably could manipulate her in the end, so as a pragmatic move it's wise not to involve him.)

Thanks for the feedback. It led to some fun introspection. (My response to real-life would likely be different than to fiction.)

Heh, can't disagree on the entertaining part.
Or say that it isn't satisfying to see Max being slapped around a bit.

I might even do the same in Al’s place, but that doesn't change that it is wrong* or that I should never get superpowers. At least not any of the destructive kind.
I guess it depends how this goes.
What exactly Alison needs Max for and how she reacts to her own actions there.

*Not that this means that I can't enjoy the story or cheer for the character**, but it does leave a bad taste.

**Unless she actually pollutes the Atlantic with this guy and then continues on this road Alison is hardly the most questionable character I've ever cheered for...

[JeenLeen]

**Unless she actually pollutes the Atlantic with this guy and then continues on this road Alison is hardly the most questionable character I've ever cheered for...

Yeah, if she actually kills him or leaves him to die in the Atlantic, I would feel different. I'm taking that as a bluff. Probably something she feels like doing, but not what she actually would.

I wonder if this is what she called Paladin about, to see if Paladin would go along with it. I realize she doesn't say who he should go "Tinkerbell" on, and I could see boosting Paladin being to Allison as one of the biggest potential game-changers.

[Morquard]

New theory: With Max's superpower boost, her speed increases so much, she not only goes supersonic (she might already be able to do that, I don't know) but actually faster than light. She then travels back in time (because everyone knows FTL = time travel), accidentally perhaps, where she tries to save the world from itself. So she tries to force those biodynamics with the world-changing powers (the one from Patrick's conspiracy files) into saving the world with her, but they refuse and she kills them all.
Because if they won't help her save the world, they must be out to dominate or destroy it, and with their level of powers they could even do it, so best if they're not around anymore then.

And yes, I know this theory has "problems" like "Oh but they got killed before their powers manifested" or "but they were 8 year old kids, how would they already plan to destroy the world"... well if you can't see why these issues are really no issues at all, I can't help you. :P

[Kantaki]

New theory: With Max's superpower boost, her speed increases so much, she not only goes supersonic (she might already be able to do that, I don't know) but actually faster than light. She then travels back in time (because everyone knows FTL = time travel), accidentally perhaps, where she tries to save the world from itself. So she tries to force those biodynamics with the world-changing powers (the one from Patrick's conspiracy files) into saving the world with her, but they refuse and she kills them all.
Because if they won't help her save the world, they must be out to dominate or destroy it, and with their level of powers they could even do it, so best if they're not around anymore then.

And yes, I know this theory has "problems" like "Oh but they got killed before their powers manifested" or "but they were 8 year old kids, how would they already plan to destroy the world"... well if you can't see why these issues are really no issues at all, I can't help you. :P

I don't think Alison is that crazy. Yet.
But give her time. One more little push is all it needs at this point.

[Maryring]

It already is. Just look at the framing of the panels, the shading used for Alison, the various poses. The art is in agreement with the story that Serious Line-Crossing has happened. Now it's time to speculate about the nature and magnitude of Alison's comeuppance, as well as what motivated her to cross the line.

Also, re: various people anticipating SFP comments being a ****hole full of Alison apologia, not really seeing it now that comments are up. But then, I don't exactly go delving into the downvoted depths.

Eeeeh. Maybe? I mean, during the Moonshadow incident there was a lot of framing that would show support for Moonshadow's action, which is strongly mirrored here, with Al being the Moonshadow. While I can agree that the general style tries to emphasise the violence that's happening, I'm less sure if it's trying to convey a Serious Line-Crossing. I hope so, but the authors may well feel the same viscereal delight that many others get from watching Max get his come-uppance.

As for the SFP comments being full of Al apologia, it is. Both this comic, and the previous comic, had comment fields full of people who wanted Max to be... coerced. So the expectation was justified and met.

[Deliverance]

It already is. Just look at the framing of the panels, the shading used for Alison, the various poses. The art is in agreement with the story that Serious Line-Crossing has happened. Now it's time to speculate about the nature and magnitude of Alison's comeuppance, as well as what motivated her to cross the line.

Also, re: various people anticipating SFP comments being a ****hole full of Alison apologia, not really seeing it now that comments are up. But then, I don't exactly go delving into the downvoted depths.

I did delve into the comments, and am pleasantly surprised that my anticipation of Alison-apologists running wild turned out to be dead wrong, though I am a bit surprised that several people who just the previous strip were cheering Alison on, urging physical violence to get her will, seem to have buyers remorse when the strip took her frustration to its logical conclusion based on her backstory and personality.

It would appear that there are fewer believers in utilitarianism around when push comes to shove.

And yes, it has been interesting seeing Alison following her convictions into this territory, but it will be even more interesting to see the return arc, which one would expect to feature character growth on her part away from the baseline established. At least that's what the chapter seemed to be set up to do at the beginning, so hopefully that's what's coming.