Strong Female Protagonist II

[Vinyadan]

It would appear that there are fewer believers in utilitarianism around when push comes to shove.

I would have thought "push come to shoulder".

btw IS aLI'S MOTHER CALLED mARTHA?

[Lost Demiurge]

See, this is the interesting part, to me. This is also the part where I knew that a whole lot of upset fan yelling was coming.

This is a comic that examines morals, ethical dilemmas, and problems. It's going to attract ire no matter which way it goes.

And a lot of people whose ethics deviate from the conclusions it draws or the solutions that it hints at will feel upset, and understandably so. We were drawn in to empathize with Alison, to feel like she was us in a way. And now she's going in a way we tell ourselves we wouldn't sanction, and dealing with issues in a manner that doesn't jibe with our own beliefs.

Me?

I'm going to sit back and watch where she goes. Not every character out there is going to match my morals and beliefs, nor should they. I empathize with Alison, and I'm disappointed she took the easy way out, but at the same time I knew this sort of stuff would come up.

At the end of the day it's a free webcomic, and it entertains me. I lose nothing but time in watching to see where its going and friends?

I have absolutely no idea where this one will end up and I love the hell out of that. This one's gone off the rails, and I don't know where it's going. It's a rare story in this genre that can do that for me.

:: Settles back with popcorn ::

[Sapphire Guard]

So, possibilities....

1. She's bluffing to scare him. He calls it.
2. Max still refuses to use his power on principle, Alison...what? Takes him captive?
3. Max ends up in the Atlantic (not really going to happen)
4. Max gives in, and the solution doesn't work.
5.The plan has a complication of some kind.

[Gez]

From the artist's twitter:

PSA (especially for people commenting on today's SFP page): comparing something that isn't rape to actual rape is...kinda ****ty!!

Yes, it's really crappy to compare rape to a scene where a person is physically coerced into letting another person make use of them against their will, while the coercer is calling them "sweetheart" and telling them to stop squirming if they don't want to get hurt.

Also there was this on the same place as the last one:

[Lethologica]

Funny, I thought comparing something that wasn't rape to rape was what the comic was doing. I guess I don't understand its intended tone and direction as well as I thought.

[Guancyto]

Uh.

Coercion happens for a lot of things that aren't sexual assault. If she were physically forcing him to shoot Patrick, would that comparison even be on the table?

I have absolutely no idea where this one will end up and I love the hell out of that. This one's gone off the rails, and I don't know where it's going. It's a rare story in this genre that can do that for me.

:: Settles back with popcorn ::

See, this is where I'm at. Maybe it's just because I'm a Worm fan, but I find it interesting when heroes take a sudden swerve into villainy without changing a single thing about their character. Like, the usual face-heel-turn involves some sort of science or magic or insanity bullcrap going on so people can imagine there's a sharp divide between their heroes and villains, but we knew long ago that in SFP that wasn't true.

[Maryring]

Condensed for length

Eeeeh. While there's plenty of people questioning/outright dismissing the morality of this action, I don't see many people being actually upset by this development, so much as making playful jabs at it. It has been pretty heavily foreshadowed after all. And, for me at least, the problem isn't the comic, so much as all the people that approve of what's Al is doing. And not just in the visceral "yay, the guy I don't like has bad stuff happen to him", but rather making active the argument that it's okay to do bad stuff to others "for the greater good". Though this topic isn't one we can really delve further into here. I mostly just want to make my stance clear.

From the artist's twitter:

Yes, it's really crappy to compare rape to a scene where a person is physically coerced into letting another person make use of them against their will, while the coercer is calling them "sweetheart" and telling them to stop squirming if they don't want to get hurt.

Yeah... as much as I loathe the comparison, Al's acts are very easy to compare to rape. In fact, I too thought that the comic made an intentional comparison. I suppose even a comic like this can have unexamined implications in it's presentation.

Uh.

Coercion happens for a lot of things that aren't sexual assault. If she were physically forcing him to shoot Patrick, would that comparison even be on the table?

Depends on several factors. It's not the coercion that makes the situation seem "rapey". It's the dehumanization of Max, the use of words that are intentionally humiliating, and the transference inherent in Al using Max for his body. It's a violation of his body, and that's what makes it "rapey", but not outright rape. It works on the same control structures.

---

Incidentally, these past few comics have actually made the break up between Max and Al feel even worse. I initially didn't like it because it had Max act like a completely tactless fool out of nowhere. Now I dislike it even more because the situation seems to have artificially been set up to remove sympathy from Max in the worst way possible.

[Vinyadan]

I am now worried by the meaning of "Strong" in "Strong Female Protagonist".

[Deliverance]

Funny, I thought comparing something that wasn't rape to rape was what the comic was doing. I guess I don't understand its intended tone and direction as well as I thought.

Depends on whose Twitter it was on, I guess: Writer or Illustrator. While they work as a team, only the first is guaranteed to understand all that is intended.

[Morquard]

I'd think the illustrator should know whats intended with his/her drawings too...

Also, new comic:
Seems those that were betting on "Oh this is just a bluff" were ... wrong. Now, where the heck are they? Is that some sort of cave or building?

[Maryring]

Aww, are you crying Al? Tough. I'm not gonna feel sorry for you.

Also, it kind of looks like Al is looking at a body in front of them or something like that. Or maybe it's a couch... but either way there's a peculiar edge at their waist.

[Vinyadan]

"Strong Female Godfather".

[Morquard]

Aww, are you crying Al? Tough. I'm not gonna feel sorry for you.

Also, it kind of looks like Al is looking at a body in front of them or something like that. Or maybe it's a couch... but either way there's a peculiar edge at their waist.

Yes, I thought so too, but what would be the point, if it's a corpse. None of Alison's powers would do any good here.

The only one I can remotely think of is Feral. Did they maybe harvest her too much and her self-healing couldn't keep up anymore and she died for real, or maybe slipped in some weird limbo state, and now she hopes she can jump start her again?
Actually, if she had just recently learned of that, it would explain why she got so pissed at Max when he started insulting Feral.

[Traab]

I was thinking feral too but honestly, I dont think she would do this just for feral. I get a serious world saving vibe from her desperation being high enough to force someone like this, which is something she has like, NEVER done before. It would be nice if sometime in the next 6 months we actually find out what the HELL is so damn important.

[137beth]

Welcome to the Dark Side, Al.

[Vinyadan]

I was thinking feral too but honestly, I dont think she would do this just for feral. I get a serious world saving vibe from her desperation being high enough to force someone like this, which is something she has like, NEVER done before. It would be nice if sometime in the next 6 months we actually find out what the HELL is so damn important.

Does anyone have a link to the powers of the killed Messiah supers as described by her evil boyfriend? Maybe one of them had lingering abilities that could even bring him back from death.

[Dragonus45]

So I wonder how many people are going to continue or insist that this scene has no parallels or similarities to rape or being in an abusive relationship.

[Kantaki]

Does anyone have a link to the powers of the killed Messiah supers as described by her evil boyfriend? Maybe one of them had lingering abilities that could even bring him back from death.

I hope not. I don't even want to know how those guys would look after all those years feeding the worms.
On the other hand they have Feral. That could help. A little bit at least.

[Psychonaut]

I saw this somewhere and felt that finally SFP's existence was justified.

-snip-

From the artist's twitter:



Yes, it's really crappy to compare rape to a scene where a person is physically coerced into letting another person make use of them against their will, while the coercer is calling them "sweetheart" and telling them to stop squirming if they don't want to get hurt.

Also there was this on the same place as the last one:

-snip-

I take it you've seen this one as well, then?




Edit:

[Morquard]

Oh for crying out loud. Still not showing or saying WHAT THE **** IT WAS THAT HE DID??!?!

[Maryring]

Of course not. That'd distract from the self-indulgent wallowing in pity.

[Vinyadan]

Well now, that's disgusting.

[Kantaki]

Alcohol Alison? Really?
Well, let's hope this doesn't go catastrophically wrong.
For your sake.

For my entertainment I hope this will end as badly as possible.

And since we still don't know why she did what she did I going to assume she didn't have a reason until we are shown otherwise.

[Morquard]

Didn't her government psychologist say that they do have a contingency plan, for when Alison goes evil? They might wanna dig that up...

[The Glyphstone]

Is this going to be become SFP's version of the CAD miscarriage comic people still bring up after all this time?

[Nettlekid]

Is this going to be become SFP's version of the CAD miscarriage comic people still bring up after all this time?

I don't think there's any single page that compares to that, but this is definitely an arc which threatens to completely betray the premise of the comic. If it's not handled well and appropriately it'll be hard to have respect for the protagonist ever again, which is kind of essential when the story has been about the protagonist facing down disrespectful and bigoted people.

[virgileso]

The level of painting her in a bad light seems to be intentional, as we are pointedly not being shown what Max actually did. Imagine what the response would be if it was something like boosting Feral's power so that everyone in the entire hospital (give it a wing for terminally ill nuns and children for extra incentive) got her regeneration for a few minutes. It would be difficult for an audience to empathize with the conflict in the light of such an ends.

[Lethologica]

Top comment:

"I know you want to fix it so the day stays saved forever. But it might not shake that way, and until it does, the rest of us got helpin' to do. And guess what? If you do find the one-punch solution to all the world's problems, come here with a bottle of bourbon and a big-ass hamburger, and we'll do your thing instead."

-Feral

Yeah, I'm sure Feral will take to this plan (whatever it is) like oil to water.

[Vinyadan]

So the one punch solution is punching Max?

[Morquard]

When did Feral say that? But well that explains the burger and booze, I suppose. Still not sure how Max's power was the one-punch solution...