RWBY VII: Winter is here

[Calemyr]

Are you sure? Jaune seems like he can band people together fairly well given the fight with he scorpion, Ren...well I mean he's not VOID of personality but he seems like he'd be an easy team player, and Pyrrha seems like her entire super popular career is made from her going with the flow, using her magnetism power to subtly help things. The only person on JNPR who doesn't seem like a team player is Nora. I do still think if anyone should be doing kind of cheesy shipname combos, it should be JNPR and not RWBY.

Here's my take on that:
That's the thing. Without Juane, they're not really team players. Sure, they get along well, but being friendly isn't being a team player. They don't interact with each other in combat unless Jaune orders it. Pyrrha's fighting style is typically an arena-style, where she's the only person she has to worry about. Even when she's assisting other people, she's not cooperating with them, if you follow me. Same goes with Nora. Ren doesn't have a large enough impact in most cases to notice, though hopefully he can get an upgrade now that he won't get dismissed as the author's insert. The difference between RWBY and JNPR in a nutshell is that, individually, JNPR has superior members (one on one I'd bet on Nora or Pyrrha over anyone in RWBY other than maybe Yang, and I wouldn't even bet on Yang outlasting a serious Juane), while RWBY is much greater than the sum of its parts.

I don't think you'll ever see the level cooperation in JNPR that you regularly see in RWBY. As I've said before, RWBY has strong bonds across the board to the point that even Ruby and Weiss (the most contentious pairing in the group) work together seamlessly in combat. JNPR doesn't have that. Even the strong bonds they have are strained by major romantic attractions that have not yet been requited. Despite a team-wide friendship, all members of the team are emotionally isolated. JNPR thrives for two reasons. First is because they've got two of the scariest ladies in Beacon on their side. Second is because they actually listen to Jaune, allowing them to coordinate on a level they wouldn't really be able match without him. Otherwise, JNPR is just four people fighting on the same side. That's not a team, that's a coincidence.

[Kantaki]

Are you sure? Jaune seems like he can band people together fairly well given the fight with he scorpion, Ren...well I mean he's not VOID of personality but he seems like he'd be an easy team player, and Pyrrha seems like her entire super popular career is made from her going with the flow, using her magnetism power to subtly help things. The only person on JNPR who doesn't seem like a team player is Nora. I do still think if anyone should be doing kind of cheesy shipname combos, it should be JNPR and not RWBY.

I think that Team JNPR is a bit to "normal" to use the kind of showy (named) combos Ruby developed for her team. They fit Team RWBY's flashy fighting-style of several solofighters who, while they watch each others back, have developed extremely showy one man fighting styles and matching personalities. For them a strategy where the leader looks for an opening and chooses the most fitting combination of fighters.
Jaune's team on the other hand is more suited for a closer to earth strategy with formations and clear positions. Trying to adapt their friends' tactic isn't a bad idea, it just needs more... adaption to suit them.

Sure, Team JNPR is better suited for fighting as a team personality/fighting style wise, but Team RWBY's collection of flashy showoffs with overengineered, very versatile weapons makes them better at the kind of combos we saw in the fight against the mech.

[Rawhide]

Are you sure? Jaune seems like he can band people together fairly well given the fight with he scorpion, Ren...well I mean he's not VOID of personality but he seems like he'd be an easy team player, and Pyrrha seems like her entire super popular career is made from her going with the flow, using her magnetism power to subtly help things. The only person on JNPR who doesn't seem like a team player is Nora. I do still think if anyone should be doing kind of cheesy shipname combos, it should be JNPR and not RWBY.

Yeah, I'm sure, see...

Here's my take on that:
That's the thing. Without Juane, they're not really team players. Sure, they get along well, but being friendly isn't being a team player. They don't interact with each other in combat unless Jaune orders it. Pyrrha's fighting style is typically an arena-style, where she's the only person she has to worry about. Even when she's assisting other people, she's not cooperating with them, if you follow me. Same goes with Nora. Ren doesn't have a large enough impact in most cases to notice, though hopefully he can get an upgrade now that he won't get dismissed as the author's insert. The difference between RWBY and JNPR in a nutshell is that, individually, JNPR has superior members (one on one I'd bet on Nora or Pyrrha over anyone in RWBY other than maybe Yang, and I wouldn't even bet on Yang outlasting a serious Juane), while RWBY is much greater than the sum of its parts.

I don't think you'll ever see the level cooperation in JNPR that you regularly see in RWBY. As I've said before, RWBY has strong bonds across the board to the point that even Ruby and Weiss (the most contentious pairing in the group) work together seamlessly in combat. JNPR doesn't have that. Even the strong bonds they have are strained by major romantic attractions that have not yet been requited. Despite a team-wide friendship, all members of the team are emotionally isolated. JNPR thrives for two reasons. First is because they've got two of the scariest ladies in Beacon on their side. Second is because they actually listen to Jaune, allowing them to coordinate on a level they wouldn't really be able match without him. Otherwise, JNPR is just four people fighting on the same side. That's not a team, that's a coincidence.

Ok, fine, say pretty much exactly what I was going to say better than I probably would have said it. See if I care.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2

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Now you're getting into the territory of what you'll need to discuss in the rewrite thread with the claim of tunnel vision by the writers.

They weren't rendered irrelevant. Nora couldn't have done what she did if their distraction hadn't bunched up the entire enemy team so close together in exactly the right spot. (I just wish it had been revealed to be a deliberate distraction.)

Spoiler: V3C2

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I mean, if wishes were wings and so on. Besides, BRNZ was bunched up in a perfectly good spot before the 'distraction' (and on their backs, to boot). In fact, they didn't change spots at all; they just stood up and watched JNPR bicker. So the distraction had no effect.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C2

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I mean, if wishes were wings and so on. Besides, BRNZ was bunched up in a perfectly good spot before the 'distraction' (and on their backs, to boot). In fact, they didn't change spots at all; they just stood up and watched JNPR bicker. So the distraction had no effect.

Spoiler: V3C2

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Being on your backs does not a good thwacking target make. Plus, now they were flat-footed. Before they were poised and ready for combat, but now they were distracted by the event, weren't thinking about the next move, and weren't in a full combat stance.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2

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Being on your backs does not a good thwacking target make. Plus, now they were flat-footed. Before they were poised and ready for combat, but now they were distracted by the event, weren't thinking about the next move, and weren't in a full combat stance.

Spoiler: V3C2

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I didn't expect you to seriously make the argument that BRNZ was less vulnerable on their backs than on their feet ('poised and ready for combat' only happens halfway through the supposed distraction), but it's your prerogative to think so, and I won't try to change your mind about it.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: V3C2

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I didn't expect you to seriously make the argument that BRNZ was less vulnerable on their backs than on their feet ('poised and ready for combat' only happens halfway through the supposed distraction), but it's your prerogative to think so, and I won't try to change your mind about it.

Spoiler: V3C2

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To be fair given how pathetic Bronze was he might be right.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2

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To be fair given how pathetic Bronze was he might be right.

Spoiler: V3C2

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I mean, they were net-positive threat before Nora got going, unless you apply the same metric to Ren.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C2

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I didn't expect you to seriously make the argument that BRNZ was less vulnerable on their backs than on their feet ('poised and ready for combat' only happens halfway through the supposed distraction), but it's your prerogative to think so, and I won't try to change your mind about it.

Spoiler: V3C2

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People may be less mobile when they're prone, but they're also harder to hit out of the ring with a single thwack. Remember this was a ring out, not low aura, defeat.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Spoiler: V3C2

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People may be less mobile when they're prone, but they're also harder to hit out of the ring with a single thwack. Remember this was a ring out, not low aura, defeat.

Spoiler: V3C2

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I'm pretty sure people could be eliminated either way, in V3C1 one of the professors said that Yang's opponent was double whammy due ring out and low aura.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2

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People may be less mobile when they're prone, but they're also harder to hit out of the ring with a single thwack. Remember this was a ring out, not low aura, defeat.

Spoiler: V3C2

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Forgive me for being dubious that (a) that wasn't also a low-aura defeat ("can someone make sure they're okay?"), (b) ring-out could plausibly be the goal of the 'distraction', and (c) Nora couldn't have beat them however she wanted at that point.

I mean, can we be real here? The serious fight was already over. The point of the 'distraction' was transparently for the writers to parody team RWBY's use of team attacks with ship names, not to accomplish anything fight-wise--which it didn't, because the fight was already over, as stated.

And at this point I may need mod clarification as to why my tunnel-vision comment (which was (a) mild and (b) only part of a substantive comment about JNPR's teamwork potential, rather than me making an entire comment whose sole purpose was to complain) belongs in the rewrite thread, but this whole discussion about how the writers could have written JNPR's bickering as a deliberate distraction (instead of how they did write it) belongs in this thread.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C2

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I'm pretty sure people could be eliminated either way, in V3C1 one of the professors said that Yang's opponent was double whammy due ring out and low aura.

Spoiler: V3C2

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People can be eliminated either way, or both. This, however, was a ring-out win. While it could have been a low-aura win as well, we see/hear no mention if it.

Spoiler: V3C2

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Forgive me for being dubious that (a) that wasn't also a low-aura defeat ("can someone make sure they're okay?"), (b) ring-out could plausibly be the goal of the 'distraction', and (c) Nora couldn't have beat them however she wanted at that point.

I mean, can we be real here? The serious fight was already over. The point of the 'distraction' was transparently for the writers to parody team RWBY's use of team attacks with ship names, not to accomplish anything fight-wise--which it didn't, because the fight was already over, as stated.

And at this point I have to start wondering why my tunnel-vision comment belongs in the rewrite thread, but this whole discussion about how the writers could have written JNPR's bickering as a deliberate distraction (instead of how they did write it) belongs in this thread.

Spoiler: V3C2

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As much as I wish it had been a deliberate distraction, I don't think it was. Deliberate that is. However, the fact of the matter is that it was a distraction. Their opponents stopped dead in their tracks and lost momentum.

I disagree that the serious fight was already over.

That belongs here because we're discussing what happened in-universe and how it relates to the show in-universe, while discussing claims of "tunnel vision" etc. would be directly complaining about the writers/writing. Something which I would be arguing against if it was in the other thread, but, as stated, clearly does not belong in this thread.

You're partially right, my comment on wishing that Jaune had revealed that it was deliberate could be interpreted as a complaint about the writing, however it wasn't intended as such. It is pretty much at the limit of the purpose of this thread, and could be posted in either one. If we want to discuss whether it's bad writing or not, we'll need to move over to the rewrite thread.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2

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As much as I wish it had been a deliberate distraction, I don't think it was. Deliberate that is. However, the fact of the matter is that it was a distraction. Their opponents stopped dead in their tracks and lost momentum.

I disagree that the serious fight was already over.

That belongs here because we're discussing what happened in-universe and how it relates to the show in-universe, while discussing claims of "tunnel vision" etc. would be directly complaining about the writers/writing. Something which I would be arguing against if it was in the other thread, but, as stated, clearly does not belong in this thread.

You're partially right, my comment on wishing that Jaune had revealed that it was deliberate could be interpreted as a complaint about the writing, however it wasn't intended as such. It is pretty much at the limit of the purpose of this thread, and could be posted in either one. If we want to discuss whether it's bad writing or not, we'll need to move over to the rewrite thread.

Spoiler: V3C2

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The opponent certainly lost their momentum...their backwards momentum, that is. Have the last word on this if you like.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C2

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The opponent certainly lost their momentum...their backwards momentum, that is. Have the last word on this if you like.

Spoiler: V3C2

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You know full well that's not what I mean by momentum.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2

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You know full well that's not what I mean by momentum.

Spoiler: V3C2

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I meant it in the metaphorical sense. I apologize for the misunderstanding. (The fact that my words apply in the literal sense should perhaps influence our understanding of BRNZ's metaphorical momentum, though.)

(Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you and what you're actually objecting to is that I expressed my disagreement about BRNZ's metaphorical momentum the way I did? I don't see anything objectionable about it, but I want to make it clear that I considered the possibility.)

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C2

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I meant it in the metaphorical sense. I apologize for the misunderstanding. (The fact that my words apply in the literal sense should perhaps influence our understanding of BRNZ's metaphorical momentum, though.)

(Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you and what you're actually objecting to is that I expressed my disagreement about BRNZ's metaphorical momentum the way I did? I don't see anything objectionable about it, but I want to make it clear that I considered the possibility.)

Spoiler: V3C2

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What I mean is that, in combat, you need to remain fluid. Even if you're knocked to your back, you roll with the punches and get back up. Lose this momentum and it can take a while to recover, even the smallest distraction can be deadly.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2

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What I mean is that, in combat, you need to remain fluid. Even if you're knocked to your back, you roll with the punches and get back up. Lose this momentum and it can take a while to recover, even the smallest distraction can be deadly.

Spoiler: V3C2

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How did we end up in a world where JNPR's complete breakdown when BRNZ were already sitting ducks is primarily a threat to BRNZ's combat momentum? It wouldn't make sense even if it were deliberate.

I'm gonna try to get out of the woods here and back to some semblance of perspective. My initial comment was that the fight turned into a display of Nora's Semblance and rendered the others irrelevant. If the best argument for the relevance of JPR once Nora's Semblance came into play is that BRNZ were disconcerted by JNPR's breakdown (which, as we have agreed, was not a deliberate distraction), I consider that confirmation of my initial comment. So I'm not gonna continue discussing exactly how disconcerted BRNZ was, or what the hypothetical utility of the breakdown would have been if it were deliberate, or anything along those lines. It's just *cough* a distraction.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C2

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How did we end up in a world where JNPR's complete breakdown when BRNZ were already sitting ducks is primarily a threat to BRNZ's combat momentum? It wouldn't make sense even if it were deliberate.

I'm gonna try to get out of the woods here and back to some semblance of perspective. My initial comment was that the fight turned into a display of Nora's Semblance and rendered the others irrelevant. If the best argument for the relevance of JPR once Nora's Semblance came into play is that BRNZ were disconcerted by JNPR's breakdown (which, as we have agreed, was not a deliberate distraction), I consider that confirmation of my initial comment. So I'm not gonna continue discussing exactly how disconcerted BRNZ was, or what the hypothetical utility of the breakdown would have been if it were deliberate, or anything along those lines. It's just *cough* a distraction.

Spoiler: V3C2

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Here's the thing, I disagree that they were sitting ducks. Would they have been beaten anyway? Probably, but not as simply. Now they were ducks all lined up in a row (metaphorically speaking). The distraction, however deliberate or not, worked.

We also haven't agreed on that, not entirely. I do agree that it was highly likely not deliberate, and don't believe that it was deliberate. But, still, I hold out some hope.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C2 'poised and ready for combat' or 'sitting ducks'?

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Spoiler: V3C2 'deliberate distraction'?

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Anyway, another reason ship attacks won't work for JNPR is none of them would admit there could be more than two ships.

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C2 'poised and ready for combat' or 'sitting ducks'?

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Spoiler: V3C2

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Yes.

Spoiler: V3C2 'deliberate distraction'?

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Spoiler: V3C2

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As stated, it's possible but unlikely. And, even then, it's only Jaune's final sigh that makes it unlikely.

[Swaoeaeieu]

sooo episode 3 is out for non payers on the roosterteeth site.

spoilers with thoughts as i watch it

Spoiler: v3e3

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winter is a jerk, weis has a sister complex, no suprises. ruby is her usual self wich is a little funny
crow is animated as being drunk, doesnt sound like it. bit weird
now his sword suddenly appears on his back, why dont they animate those weapons in all the time?
qrow and winter duke it out, both are really good at dodging, or bad at hitting i dont know
mercury just happens to walk by? didnt notice fight sounds or a crowd? weird
just stopping mid battlescene to say: did qrow just get a funky look in his eye after getting hit? and then smash a hole in the ground? sounds like a certain semblance we know...
oh my, they did the stand on someones sword gimmick.
his sword is a gun, took longer to show then expected.
her swords are two swords, also fun
his sword is also a scythe, well i think, he stopped transforming halfway through.
winter does weird glyph thingies like weis. are semblances genetics?
and battle gets interupted, shame

i like how even qrows necklace is lopsided, kinda works with the voice

it is not hard to believe qrow had something to do with ruby's education, they are a lot alike. i love it
"hes always drunk" well done glynda, give away the obvious joke

the virus is on the generals phone, foreshadowing!!! (spookyvoice)

team smen knows qrow is here, and the virus is to gather info. also controls the entire matchmaking system? how bad is the security in this place anyway?
and it seems like penny is in the tournament? does daddy allow that?

and we end with an evil smirk from cinder.

really liked the music in the fight scene, they do a good job on the music for this show methinks.

what do you all think?

[Hiro Protagonest]

sooo episode 3 is out for non payers on the roosterteeth site.

Oh right, it's Sunday.

really liked the music in the fight scene, they do a good job on the music for this show methinks.

Jeff Williams has always been the best part of RWBY. Which is why the opening song this season is extra-disappointing.

Anyway, I'll watch the episode now.

[Mrc.]

Spoiler: V3E3

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I genuinely really liked this episode. It wasn't perfect (the exposition was clunky and the animation for the fight scene was a little bit jarring) but other than that it really worked. It gives a bit of context to Weiss' cold personality as well as explaining Ruby's insanity. Qrow seems to fight incredibly well for someone who's drunk, and Winter had all the badassness that I hope Weiss will one day get. I'm personally not a fan of Cinder being the one setting the fights, but at least it explains why there are so many stomps (she's weeding out the weaker teams and presumably this has something to do with her vague, generic plan) and hopefully the series can build on this and continue the good run.

TLDR: Really enjoyed this one, let's see if they can keep it up!

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3E3

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I'm personally not a fan of Cinder being the one setting the fights, but at least it explains why there are so many stomps (she's weeding out the weaker teams and presumably this has something to do with her vague, generic plan) and hopefully the series can build on this and continue the good run.

Spoiler: V3C3 Cinder

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If Cinder had access to this system before now, Emerald wouldn't have had to scout out RWBY's pair for the next round. Also, Cinder just mentioned having a new access point, that is, Ozpin's office. Smart money's that the matchup selector was part of that new access. (Incidentally, why would Ozpin or anyone else have control over the matchup selector to begin with? Does the host nation get special privileges?)

[Rawhide]

Spoiler: V3C3 Cinder

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If Cinder had access to this system before now, Emerald wouldn't have had to scout out RWBY's pair for the next round. Also, Cinder just mentioned having a new access point, that is, Ozpin's office. Smart money's that the matchup selector was part of that new access. (Incidentally, why would Ozpin or anyone else have control over the matchup selector to begin with? Does the host nation get special privileges?)

Spoiler: V3C3

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Did Ironwood's scroll infect Ozpin's desk, or did Ozpin's desk infect Ironwood's scroll? When Cinder mentions a new terminal, it's Ironwood's face on her scroll.

Ozpin almost certainly can't set the matches, at least not with how an uninfected/unmodified system works, but a trojan horse might very well be able to modify the outcome.

[Mrc.]

Just so I'm clear, was that previous post more in line with what you're wanting from this thread, Rawhide? Genuine question as I don't want to push the boundaries too far.

[Rawhide]

Just so I'm clear, was that previous post more in line with what you're wanting from this thread, Rawhide? Genuine question as I don't want to push the boundaries too far.

Yeah, that's fine. The comments on exposition and animation are probably better suited to the rewrite thread if you'd want to go more in depth, but easily fall within what I'd consider the leeway area to not stifle discussion by being too rigid.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V3C3

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Did Ironwood's scroll infect Ozpin's desk, or did Ozpin's desk infect Ironwood's scroll? When Cinder mentions a new terminal, it's Ironwood's face on her scroll.

Ozpin almost certainly can't set the matches, at least not with how an uninfected/unmodified system works, but a trojan horse might very well be able to modify the outcome.

Oh, right, missed that.

[Rawhide]

Oh, right, missed that.

Spoiler: V3C3

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It could be either way. Evidence seems to suggest, in my mind, that it's more likely that the new access terminal is Ironwood's scroll. But it's ambiguous enough that it could be Ozpin's desk.

Evidence for Ironwood's scroll being the new access terminal:

• Originally infected systems were in a permanent structure in Beacon/Vale, not likely maintained by or containing systems belonging to Ironwood.
• Just before removing the scroll from Ozpin's desk, the black queen appears, the same way as when the initial systems were infected.
• Ironwood's face on Cinder's scroll as she mentions a new access terminal.

Counterpoints to the above:

• Maybe that was Ironwood's temporary base of operations for the Atlas computer systems?
• Could be a symbol of having infected a system, rather than has been infected?
• His face could have been on there as his scroll was reporting to Cinder that it successfully penetrated a new system?

Just typing out the counterpoints solidifies in my mind how tenuous they are and much more likely the former is true.

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: Volume 3 Episode 3

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....I hate Winter. She reminds me of my older siblings.

oh hi Krow! your calling her out, I like you already. yup, starting a fight with a icy sword princess over basically nothing and then getting her chewed out for it while not caring if he gets in trouble as well? yup, Krow is awesome.

"if I was one of your men, I'd shoot myself."-OH MY GOD, KROW, GREAT ONE LINER. can we just....have him be the sensei for Team RWBY? this snarky attitude is what I think was missing from RWBY to really make it work.

so there is another enemy beside the Grimm....

......and its potentially powerful enough to make the big fleet outside necessary.

.....but since its secret for some reason.....bringing it was a bad move, since it could attract the Grimm, because now everyone is thinking "what are they expecting to fight?" which is the exact kind of question that lead to all sorts of fear....