Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

[Anonymouswizard]

Please, none of them have a patch on JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

[Rynjin]

Please, none of them have a patch on JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

Wait are you implying JoJo is bad?

[Dragonexx]

I can probably agree that One Piece has better storytelling overall (maybe), but at the same time, I'm not willing to sit through the steep barrier to entry before it actually gets good and entertaining (by your metric) (I've watched many episodes of it myself and found it rather meh, also, almost 20 years of continuity). Of course shonen anime in general isn't really good for much more than the kind of fun you turn your brain off for. Attack on Titan was meh. Sword Art Online's first two arcs are much the same. I kinda fell off Bleach and Naruto (not out of any specific rejection but just missed enough episodes that I stopped bothering watching and just looked up summaries once they were over). If I had to pick a truly good Shonen series, it would be Inuyasha (I really should finish up the final chapter or whatever it's called).

[Red Fel]

Of course shonen anime in general isn't really good for much more than the kind of fun you turn your brain off for.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would like a word with you. And after that, Kill la Kill would like to disrobe you.

If I had to pick a truly good Shonen series, it would be Inuyasha (I really should finish up the final chapter or whatever it's called).

And now I know you're messing with me.

[Rynjin]

I'm sorry my brain imploded because someone who complained about pacing said Inuyasha was the best

[Lord Raziere]

I can probably agree that One Piece has better storytelling overall (maybe), but at the same time, I'm not willing to sit through the steep barrier to entry before it actually gets good and entertaining (by your metric) (I've watched many episodes of it myself and found it rather meh, also, almost 20 years of continuity). Of course shonen anime in general isn't really good for much more than the kind of fun you turn your brain off for. Attack on Titan was meh. Sword Art Online's first two arcs are much the same. I kinda fell off Bleach and Naruto (not out of any specific rejection but just missed enough episodes that I stopped bothering watching and just looked up summaries once they were over). If I had to pick a truly good Shonen series, it would be Inuyasha (I really should finish up the final chapter or whatever it's called).

Dude, I'm a shonen anime fan and I don't like One Piece. Trust me, I've tried to get through One Piece, got to like, the half way point where they actually got to the land of the mermaids and then I just quit because of one final straw of stupidity that I could no longer take. I honestly think that One Piece is intentionally dragging out its early day shonen phase as long as possible, where all the fights are supposed to be good and creative, trying to put off the later phase of "upgrades just start happening and people just whale on each other/crazy stupid convoluted plans start being revealed and hax abilities start being pulled out" phase as much as possible.

Bleach, I only got to like, the end of Soul Society Arc in the manga, and never really watched beyond that, because it just so rapidly became boring for some reason. Most of what I know of it is through wikis because the hybrid concepts it came up with are more interesting than what actually happens.

Naruto is one I like, but only everything that isn't the finale. The final battles is where it started going crazy and hax, like I'd have ended it right at Pain level of power, that would be the most hax I'd allow. beyond that it just starts going crazy.

I tried to watch Inuyasha a couple times, but only got to episode 30 or so, and that was years ago. I heard that there was a lot of filler, an I'm not sure when I should stop watching the original and start watching the final chapter.

Attack on Titan? Eh, never watched it, heard its too depressing. from what I could see from an abridged series, its not going in any direction I would care to follow along with

I only watched SAO: Abridged, so I wouldn't know what its actually like.

@ Red Fel: yeah both of those are pretty awesome. TTGL and KLK are short, but they pack and lot of quality into the little time they have.

[Dragonexx]

I never thought of TTGL and Kill la kill as shonen, but now that I think about them, they are. Short and sweet. Also, I wasn't talking about inuyasha's pacing, but that to me, even the episodic filler was fun and engaging.

[Rynjin]

A lot of things you don't think are shonen, are. Mostly because shonen is an age demographic rather than a genre. Death Note is still shonen, for example. Conversely while on a surface level One Punch Man seems to exhibit many shonen tropes, it is a seinen series, geared towards an older audience.

The classification is just as muddied as the Young Adult Fiction "genre" of books as far as what really makes it a shonen series or not.

Which dovetails neatly into the subject of Inuyasha, because the fact that it's considered shonen rather than shoujo boggles my mind.

[Kato]

I just quit because of one final straw of stupidity that I could no longer take. [...] all the fights are supposed to be good and creative, trying to put off the later phase of "upgrades just start happening and people just whale on each other/crazy stupid convoluted plans start being revealed and hax abilities start being pulled out" phase as much as possible.

And yet you like FT? someone seems a bit biased. I'd have a hard time mentioning a convoluted plan in OP. FT might not have been heavy on those either but it seems Hiro is trying to make up for that now.. Also, I don't see how FT's deus ex machina and friendship power ups are better than developed and earned (mostly) power ups.

Since the thread is off topic anyway... I remember enjoying Inu Yasha when it aired on German TV when I was a kid. I wouldn't call it great, especially the pacing but I'd give it another shot to finish if I had time.
But yeah, even with the unclear genre definition of Shounen, it's way closer to Shoujo. But then so is takahashi's other famous work, Ranma 1/2.

Shounen can basically be anything aimed at young boys, though the genre typically excludes sports and such, focusing more on... Well, fighting.

[Knaight]

And yet you like FT? someone seems a bit biased. I'd have a hard time mentioning a convoluted plan in OP. FT might not have been heavy on those either but it seems Hiro is trying to make up for that now.. Also, I don't see how FT's deus ex machina and friendship power ups are better than developed and earned (mostly) power ups.

Seeing as having a preference is bias here, there's bias all around. Raziere is biased towards FT, you're biased towards OP, I'm biased against both of them by virtue of generally disliking most Shonen complements of seeing FMA first and mentally establishing it as a baseline rather than one of the better works in the genre, etc.

[Lord Raziere]

And yet you like FT? someone seems a bit biased. I'd have a hard time mentioning a convoluted plan in OP. FT might not have been heavy on those either but it seems Hiro is trying to make up for that now.. Also, I don't see how FT's deus ex machina and friendship power ups are better than developed and earned (mostly) power ups.

......oh lets see.....the entire World Government conspiracy involving an entire century removed from the records of history, the entire War between Whitebeard and the Marines was a big chess game that Luffy was only a pawn in, Blackbeard is probably the one most likely to have a convoluted plan already and probably does already since he just showed up at the end and took the opportunity to gain the most hax fruit ever, or how about this strange Will Of D. and Gold Roger nonsense? They might not be coming NOW, but they will coming eventually, this many factions trying to get the one up on each other? It'll inevitably happen.

Earned? tch. the only reason Luffy has gotten this far is pure dumb luck. your protagonist surviving because of a freak circumstance like lightning striking and saving you right you get executed is not good writing. I don't get why anyone likes One Piece when all the characters are so unlikeable or creepy anyways. In fact the whole of One Piece is full of stupid coincidences sure they add up to something, but all of One Pieces is based on improbable circumstances and randomness which has no logic or plan to it. and Luffy is the stupidest most annoying character I've ever laid eyes on. like, I could probably get along with any other hero, but Luffy just makes me find Freeza and ask him to blow up the entire one piece planet just make sure he doesn't exist. the entire makes me root for the Marines, because they sound like the most logical reasonable people here, since Luffy is not a hero, he is just a rogue crazy person with no concern for morality.

FT I like? because they are morally upright, they fight evil, everyone in the Guild has gotten a chance to kick ass and prove they are awesome, their powers are far more awesome yet they still found a way to win in a world where not a lot of magic exists, and I never really considered anything of what they do as power ups. Grey is just applying his ice make magic in new ways, Erza has always had a lot of armors and has been doing this for years, and FT in general seems to be on the same power level as they always were, while Natsu just added lightning to fire magic, so what? he is a little more flexible, while Lucy getting twelve keys was like, what would obviously happen from the beginning because they're based on the Zodiac. They always have each others back, but they also have their own interesting backstories. that and it feels like an actual world, while OP just feels like the creation of some demented clown that doesn't make any sense.

like I can see, that on a purely technical general detached level that the plot of One Piece is intricate and designed so that it all fits together, but none of the individual pieces are likable enough for me to care about it. Its hard to appreciate the workings of a machine when every single little individual part is a piece of clownish stupidity you hate. the plot is meaningless if none of the characters that its about are people you like. because honestly I don't like a single person in all of One Piece. they are just all annoying and lacking in intelligence to some degree.

I can actually care about FT, because they are people who feel like people, that make sense in a dangerous situation, yet can still chill out and have fun. in One Piece its just silliness all the way through and there is no place where it starts getting more serious about itself. brother dying? ship being destroyed? hahaha, back to everything being hunky-dory and nonsensically ridiculous for no reason! sure there are consequences, but they don't feel like they have an impact. the strawhat crew is just as stupid and ridiculous as they always are. FT acknowledges these things happening and solves them at least.

Really, Sunny-Go is just their ship power upgrade, and they've completely forgotten the Merry, which quite stupidly somehow sailed all by itself to rescue them which makes no sense, because if the ship spirits can do that why hasn't this happened before, and why doesn't the Marines exploit that to make whole navies of self-sailing ships?

or how about the nonsense of giants, in a world of MOSTLY WATER AND ISLANDS? how does this world have enough food to feed so many people that are so big? how do they get from island to island? how do they produce enough of anything to cloth them? how are the fishmen the ones being oppressed when this world is far more hospitable to their life forms and should thus allow them to outnumber humanity and thus oppress humanity, who are much more limited in their resources due to not having the ENTIRE OCEAN TO INHABIT. Like, why haven't the fishmen out-populate everyone else, kill everyone else limited to their single islands and narrow strips of land where they can't expect any help within any reasonable amount of time, and just rule everything? or how about the whole "where do people get all the wood and steel and whatnot to build all this in the first place" problem, because if this world has more water, that means less land to mine, to cut down trees on, to farm, to do anything. and that is plus big giant people sucking more resources for their personal stuff. One Piece should be in the middle of like, a resource crisis the way its going.

there is just so many things I could rant on and on about One Piece. it just never clicks with me.

[SKarious]

So, apparently the opponent for Deadpool has been revealed.
Aaaaand it's:

Spoiler: ...

Show

Pinkie Pie

Wat.

[Red Fel]

I never thought of TTGL and Kill la kill as shonen, but now that I think about them, they are. Short and sweet. Also, I wasn't talking about inuyasha's pacing, but that to me, even the episodic filler was fun and engaging.

Well, let's run down the iconic checklist for TTGL and KlK.

• Protagonist possesses a unique power? Yup.
• Acquires friends, particularly making friends of enemies and at least one rival? Yup.
• Many enemies are presented with a humorous quirk, most are at least morally ambiguous, and only very few are genuinely evil? Sure thing.
• Conflicts occur in a story arc, where protagonist faces a series of increasingly difficult bosses before facing the big boss? Uh-huh.
• Protagonist undergoes a personal trauma or major realization to discover awesome inner power? You got it.
• Protagonist wins not only with newfound awesome power, but "power of friendship?" Done and done.

Fact is, shounen doesn't even need to involve combat. Look at series like Hikaru no Go (shounen about the game of go) and Yakitate!! Japan (shounen about competitive baking). You have periodic conflicts, arranged like stages, inching towards a major showdown in each story arc. Enemies are either not seen again, recurring rivals, or a single unforgivably evil baddie. These two, despite their brevity, manage to hit each note in a very satisfying way.

A lot of things you don't think are shonen, are. Mostly because shonen is an age demographic rather than a genre. Death Note is still shonen, for example. Conversely while on a surface level One Punch Man seems to exhibit many shonen tropes, it is a seinen series, geared towards an older audience.

The classification is just as muddied as the Young Adult Fiction "genre" of books as far as what really makes it a shonen series or not.

Which dovetails neatly into the subject of Inuyasha, because the fact that it's considered shonen rather than shoujo boggles my mind.

Which brings us to Inuyasha, which does not hit these notes.

• Protagonist possesses a unique power? Sort of. Depends on whether you consider Kagome or Inuyasha to be the protagonist. A female protagonist is extremely uncommon in shounen (they are, after all, aimed at young boys), but her power - being the reincarnation of a priestess - is somewhat unique. Inuyasha's power, though, comes mainly from his sword, which gets about one upgrade and we're done.
• Acquires friends, particularly making friends of enemies and at least one rival? Not exactly. We get the core cast - a monk, a demon hunter, a fox-kid, and the romantic leads; we get the rival wolf-guy, the rival evil brother. We never get a rival who is actually recruited to the cast, however.
• Many enemies are presented with a humorous quirk, most are at least morally ambiguous, and only very few are genuinely evil? Not really. Enemies are monsters. Sesshoumaru's minion imp is mildly humorous, but the rest are fairly unambiguously evil.
• Conflicts occur in a story arc, where protagonist faces a series of increasingly difficult bosses before facing the big boss? Not really; episodes are either episodic filler or a case of, "Look, it's the bad guy, crap he got away again." Occasionally there's an enemy they have to fight, like a demon who has acquired jewel shards, but that's less a case of a miniboss on the path to the arc baddie, and more a case of a random encounter. Takahashi drags this stuff out.
• Protagonist undergoes a personal trauma or major realization to discover awesome inner power? Not really. Kagome doesn't really undergo much, and Inuyasha just stubbornly claws his way (literally) through his problems.
• Protagonist wins not only with newfound awesome power, but "power of friendship?" Nope. Inuyasha wins because his sword is bigger. Kagome wins because magic arrows.

Takahashi does romantic action/comedies. Her hallmark is Ranma 1/2, which despite having plenty of action, is more about the romantic comedy between Ranma and his fiancees than the power of friendship or what-have-you. Also, the nudity of that comic (less present in Inuyasha) is inappropriate for shounen. But also, consider the subtitle of Inuyasha: A Feudal Fairy Tale. This is a manga about a normal girl who finds herself in a fantastical world alongside a strong and loyal, but stubborn and frustrating, man. It's a basic romance plot, complete with Takahashi's signature "I hate you, but I secretly love you," two-sided tsundere relationship.

It's not shounen, is my point.

So, apparently the opponent for Deadpool has been revealed.
Aaaaand it's:

Spoiler: ...

Show

Pinkie Pie

Wat.

To be fair, the previous Deadpool Death Battle was against Deathstroke, so they were clearly going by original concept and powers - both being originally drafted as serious and hardcore assassins (and the former as an expy of the latter). It was a battle of brutal killers.

This one, though? Fourth wall-breaking powers. That's basically it. Battle of characters who know they're characters.

Spoiler

Show

I mean, heck, Rainbow Dash beat Starscream. Flying pony versus robot, win goes to pony. And given the fact that Pinkie Pie can apparently defy causality, or something (I don't actually watch the show, I have no idea), that kind of gives her a leg up. I mean, Deadpool has the whole can't die thing, and the whole fourth wall, what fourth wall? thing, but if you can pretty much break causality, that's basically it, you know?

[Durkoala]

To be fair, the previous Deadpool Death Battle was against Deathstroke, so they were clearly going by original concept and powers - both being originally drafted as serious and hardcore assassins (and the former as an expy of the latter). It was a battle of brutal killers.

This one, though? Fourth wall-breaking powers. That's basically it. Battle of characters who know they're characters.

Spoiler

Show

I mean, heck, Rainbow Dash beat Starscream. Flying pony versus robot, win goes to pony. And given the fact that Pinkie Pie can apparently defy causality, or something (I don't actually watch the show, I have no idea), that kind of gives her a leg up. I mean, Deadpool has the whole can't die thing, and the whole fourth wall, what fourth wall? thing, but if you can pretty much break causality, that's basically it, you know?

It's been a while since I last checked, but when I was watching FiM, Pinkie was completely unaware of a fourth wall and it was mostly a fan "theory". Pinkie as a self-aware character never sits right with me because most of her personal episodes were about how her wacky nature and the world in general didn't always work together, which doesn't really work if she's aware of an audience turning up each week to watch her for her wacky nature.

For fairness's sake, there were two episodes where she interrupts the closing iris, but it's not clear if she can actually see the fourth wall or not: both times she's trying to get Twilight's attention, in the first by cutting off her 'Dear Princess Celestia...' and in the second, Twilight joins her "outside" the iris.

Also, I really don't think a duel to the death is Pinkie's thing at all. There's all kinds of wrongness about making a silly horse that wants to make people happy try to kill a violent mercenary..

That said, the cartoon horse has a big advantage over realistic human with mental issues, so I'm guessing Pinkie wins, although I don't think I'll be able to watch this one.

[Rynjin]

Spoiler

Show

......oh lets see.....the entire World Government conspiracy involving an entire century removed from the records of history, the entire War between Whitebeard and the Marines was a big chess game that Luffy was only a pawn in, Blackbeard is probably the one most likely to have a convoluted plan already and probably does already since he just showed up at the end and took the opportunity to gain the most hax fruit ever, or how about this strange Will Of D. and Gold Roger nonsense? They might not be coming NOW, but they will coming eventually, this many factions trying to get the one up on each other? It'll inevitably happen.

Earned? tch. the only reason Luffy has gotten this far is pure dumb luck. your protagonist surviving because of a freak circumstance like lightning striking and saving you right you get executed is not good writing. I don't get why anyone likes One Piece when all the characters are so unlikeable or creepy anyways. In fact the whole of One Piece is full of stupid coincidences sure they add up to something, but all of One Pieces is based on improbable circumstances and randomness which has no logic or plan to it. and Luffy is the stupidest most annoying character I've ever laid eyes on. like, I could probably get along with any other hero, but Luffy just makes me find Freeza and ask him to blow up the entire one piece planet just make sure he doesn't exist. the entire makes me root for the Marines, because they sound like the most logical reasonable people here, since Luffy is not a hero, he is just a rogue crazy person with no concern for morality.

FT I like? because they are morally upright, they fight evil, everyone in the Guild has gotten a chance to kick ass and prove they are awesome, their powers are far more awesome yet they still found a way to win in a world where not a lot of magic exists, and I never really considered anything of what they do as power ups. Grey is just applying his ice make magic in new ways, Erza has always had a lot of armors and has been doing this for years, and FT in general seems to be on the same power level as they always were, while Natsu just added lightning to fire magic, so what? he is a little more flexible, while Lucy getting twelve keys was like, what would obviously happen from the beginning because they're based on the Zodiac. They always have each others back, but they also have their own interesting backstories. that and it feels like an actual world, while OP just feels like the creation of some demented clown that doesn't make any sense.

like I can see, that on a purely technical general detached level that the plot of One Piece is intricate and designed so that it all fits together, but none of the individual pieces are likable enough for me to care about it. Its hard to appreciate the workings of a machine when every single little individual part is a piece of clownish stupidity you hate. the plot is meaningless if none of the characters that its about are people you like. because honestly I don't like a single person in all of One Piece. they are just all annoying and lacking in intelligence to some degree.

I can actually care about FT, because they are people who feel like people, that make sense in a dangerous situation, yet can still chill out and have fun. in One Piece its just silliness all the way through and there is no place where it starts getting more serious about itself. brother dying? ship being destroyed? hahaha, back to everything being hunky-dory and nonsensically ridiculous for no reason! sure there are consequences, but they don't feel like they have an impact. the strawhat crew is just as stupid and ridiculous as they always are. FT acknowledges these things happening and solves them at least.

Really, Sunny-Go is just their ship power upgrade, and they've completely forgotten the Merry, which quite stupidly somehow sailed all by itself to rescue them which makes no sense, because if the ship spirits can do that why hasn't this happened before, and why doesn't the Marines exploit that to make whole navies of self-sailing ships?

or how about the nonsense of giants, in a world of MOSTLY WATER AND ISLANDS? how does this world have enough food to feed so many people that are so big? how do they get from island to island? how do they produce enough of anything to cloth them? how are the fishmen the ones being oppressed when this world is far more hospitable to their life forms and should thus allow them to outnumber humanity and thus oppress humanity, who are much more limited in their resources due to not having the ENTIRE OCEAN TO INHABIT. Like, why haven't the fishmen out-populate everyone else, kill everyone else limited to their single islands and narrow strips of land where they can't expect any help within any reasonable amount of time, and just rule everything? or how about the whole "where do people get all the wood and steel and whatnot to build all this in the first place" problem, because if this world has more water, that means less land to mine, to cut down trees on, to farm, to do anything. and that is plus big giant people sucking more resources for their personal stuff. One Piece should be in the middle of like, a resource crisis the way its going.

there is just so many things I could rant on and on about One Piece. it just never clicks with me.

Nearly all of these questions are answered in series BTW (for example, giants get around on giant ships, or by WALKING the ocean for the really big ones, and there are whole islands of just as huge creatures and abundant foodstuffs which is where they're usually seen around), but I think we're swinging really off topic at this point. What's the policy on creating another thread to continue an OT discussion here?

[Anonymouswizard]

When it comes to Shounen I like the early arcs of JoJo for one simple reason. They end relatively quickly and move on to a new set of characters, so you're unlikely to get more than a single power up (Joseph learning to actually use the Ripple, Jotaro unlocking his Time Stop), meaning fights rarely are just 'my power up is stronger', and the trip to another part may make you stronger (Joseph in part 3 gains a stand while retaining his Ripple powers) or weaker (Jotaro dropping from 5 seconds of stopped time to half a second) depending on what's needed. Then it apparently becomes Sienen in part 7, which I'm looking forward to.

[Flickerdart]

the trip to another part may make you stronger (Joseph in part 3 gains a stand while retaining his Ripple powers)

Joseph went from being the strongest guy to being the weakest guy. That doesn't really scream "stronger" even if he might technically be marginally more powerful.

[Kato]

So, apparently the opponent for Deadpool has been revealed.
Aaaaand it's:

Spoiler: ...

Show

Pinkie Pie

Wat.

Okay, that's like... wow. Maybe the weirdest thing they did yet. Including that one time a pony fought a giant robot. Or Norris vs Segata...


Okay, next is getting off-topic but I can't resist.

......oh lets see.....the entire World Government conspiracy involving an entire century removed from the records of history, the entire War between Whitebeard and the Marines was a big chess game that Luffy was only a pawn in, Blackbeard is probably the one most likely to have a convoluted plan already and probably does already since he just showed up at the end and took the opportunity to gain the most hax fruit ever, or how about this strange Will Of D. and Gold Roger nonsense? They might not be coming NOW, but they will coming eventually, this many factions trying to get the one up on each other? It'll inevitably happen.

Oh, wait, you complain the world has a backstory? Or is "I'll get Whitebeard by luring him to the execution of his first mate" convoluted to you?

Earned? tch. the only reason Luffy has gotten this far is pure dumb luck. your protagonist surviving because of a freak circumstance like lightning striking and saving you right you get executed is not good writing.[...]since Luffy is not a hero, he is just a rogue crazy person with no concern for morality.

Wait, you mean the lightning strike caused by his father?
See, it's perfectly fine not to like Luffy but then you shouldn't like Natsu either because they are hardly different. If you really buy Luffy having no morals when he constantly does good "by accident" I'm not sure what to say...

while OP just feels like the creation of some demented clown that doesn't make any sense.

Okay... I could get really salty at that but I feel that would be beneath forum etiquette. But let's just say regarding the rest... Power ups are not bad if you're enemies get progressively stronger. FT did have at least one major power up, recently a few more, and at least in my opinion that kind of came out of nowhere to justify power ups (post first time skip) Of course, you can argue on that, as well as Natsu winning most final fights even though we are constantly reminded people like Erza and Laxus should outpower him.
sidenote regarding morality: It sure is good rule of humor let's you burn down half a city in the first episode without endangering anyone

they are just all annoying and lacking in intelligence to some degree.

Again, it's fine if you don't like the characters in OP, sympathy is really subjective, but... don't call out the crews flaws if your main characters include a guy who regularly strips for no reason, a girl who constantly tries and fails to use her beauty to get stuff, and a cat who is mostly there to make (poor) jokes.

the strawhat crew is just as stupid and ridiculous as they always are. FT acknowledges these things happening and solves them at least.

Uhm... wait, what? FT also only plays things straight when it fits them. The thing is, as with OP pre-time skip, there were few instances when something terrible happened. Yes, OP sticks to it's cheery tone, but FT manages to make jokes between panels in horrible situations, too. Which totally can work, yes, I actually think Hiro does this well on occasion, but then you can't go and call OP out for its cheery tone.

or how about the nonsense of giants, in a world of MOSTLY WATER AND ISLANDS? how does this world have enough food to feed so many people that are so big? how do they get from island to island? how do they produce enough of anything to cloth them? how are the fishmen the ones being oppressed when this world is far more hospitable to their life forms and should thus allow them to outnumber humanity and thus oppress humanity, who are much more limited in their resources due to not having the ENTIRE OCEAN TO INHABIT. Like, why haven't the fishmen out-populate everyone else, kill everyone else limited to their single islands and narrow strips of land where they can't expect any help within any reasonable amount of time, and just rule everything? or how about the whole "where do people get all the wood and steel and whatnot to build all this in the first place" problem, because if this world has more water, that means less land to mine, to cut down trees on, to farm, to do anything. and that is plus big giant people sucking more resources for their personal stuff. One Piece should be in the middle of like, a resource crisis the way its going.

there is just so many things I could rant on and on about One Piece. it just never clicks with me.

So, I'm not saying you can't wonder about these things but I feel like you just got lucky Hiro never did any in-depth world building or you'd need to pick FT apart, too.

"It doesn't click with me" is nothing one can change, but from my point of view, most things OP does badly, FT also does. Or worse. And while I can agree with some of the things you say, most seem to me to be highly debatable.
Again, there's no accounting for taste, and you're welcome to like FT and join the local thread (though, we're a bit salty there) but.. well, sales numbers aren't the one true measure, but I feel like OP deserves its, as does FT.

[Anonymouswizard]

Joseph went from being the strongest guy to being the weakest guy. That doesn't really scream "stronger" even if he might technically be marginally more powerful.

He became stronger, although due to him not using the Ripple and his stand being mainly utility oriented he does the least of everyone. Yes, Kars was stronger than Dio, but Joseph was certainly out of his league.

The writing also defocused Joseph in favour of Jotaro (I believe this is why he doesn't get a humanoid Stand), which part 4 achieved by just keeping Jotaro out of plots rather than having him stay out of fights. So while technically it was a power up, he didn't get to use it as he was supposed to be a mentor type rather than the hero, it's the refocus that was truly my point.

[Forum Explorer]

So, apparently the opponent for Deadpool has been revealed.
Aaaaand it's:

Spoiler: ...

Show

Pinkie Pie

Wat.

Oooh, that's a bad matchup. Well I'm guessing it's either Deadpool's win, or a tie because they both break the rules of Death Battle and stop fighting.

To be fair, the previous Deadpool Death Battle was against Deathstroke, so they were clearly going by original concept and powers - both being originally drafted as serious and hardcore assassins (and the former as an expy of the latter). It was a battle of brutal killers.

This one, though? Fourth wall-breaking powers. That's basically it. Battle of characters who know they're characters.

Spoiler

Show

I mean, heck, Rainbow Dash beat Starscream. Flying pony versus robot, win goes to pony. And given the fact that Pinkie Pie can apparently defy causality, or something (I don't actually watch the show, I have no idea), that kind of gives her a leg up. I mean, Deadpool has the whole can't die thing, and the whole fourth wall, what fourth wall? thing, but if you can pretty much break causality, that's basically it, you know?

Pinkie can kinda tell the future if that's what you mean. And she can kinda break the fourth wall, though not nearly to the extent of Deadpool. Besides that, ponies have some insane physical feats, from being launched through walls, bouncing off of bubbles, being tossed by tornadoes or casually having anvils drop on their head. Pinkie Pie is the tooniest of them all, being able to squeeze through cracks the size of her eyeball, or climb up walls. Or the classic, run on air, because you haven't looked down yet. Or to somehow always be where you are hiding if you are trying to run away from her.

It's been a while since I last checked, but when I was watching FiM, Pinkie was completely unaware of a fourth wall and it was mostly a fan "theory". Pinkie as a self-aware character never sits right with me because most of her personal episodes were about how her wacky nature and the world in general didn't always work together, which doesn't really work if she's aware of an audience turning up each week to watch her for her wacky nature.

For fairness's sake, there were two episodes where she interrupts the closing iris, but it's not clear if she can actually see the fourth wall or not: both times she's trying to get Twilight's attention, in the first by cutting off her 'Dear Princess Celestia...' and in the second, Twilight joins her "outside" the iris.

Also, I really don't think a duel to the death is Pinkie's thing at all. There's all kinds of wrongness about making a silly horse that wants to make people happy try to kill a violent mercenary..

That said, the cartoon horse has a big advantage over realistic human with mental issues, so I'm guessing Pinkie wins, although I don't think I'll be able to watch this one.

I don't know, I mean Pinkie doesn't seem to have a mean bone in her body. She's got the usual physical feat weirdness, but she certainly lacks the ability to put Deadpool down for good, and he likely could kill Pinkie eventually, though it might end up a Coyote vs Roadrunner sort of situation. But I do think it's more likely that Deadpool and Pinkie will call Boom and Wiz out on this situation, and refuse to fight. Or maybe even switch places with them and make them fight each other instead.

[Traab]

I gotta ask, is luffy still looking for One Piece? Or has he kinda gotten side tracked considering all this other crud ive been hearing about? *EDIT* The reason I ask is, I read this fanfic that had a one piece crossover, basically, luffy admitted they found it. It turned out to not be gold, jewels, artifacts of great power, secret techniques that let you rule the world. It was gold rogers ship log. A collection of every adventure he and his crew had ever been on. All their experiences, all their wins, their losses, their victories and defeats, everything on his path to becoming king of the pirates. It was this big moralistic thing where they realized the end result wasnt what mattered so much as the adventures they had, so luffy and crew took gold rogers log, and in its place, left their own, so that some day another group of pirates would eventually have their own grand adventure trying to find the new One Piece and discover the greatest treasure for themselves. I thought it was a pretty cool idea for a finale myself.

[Yuki Akuma]

I gotta ask, is luffy still looking for One Piece? Or has he kinda gotten side tracked considering all this other crud ive been hearing about?

They're still looking for it - or rather, they know where it is, they just need to find out how to get there.

Oda has gone on record saying it's not going to be some "the journey was the real treasure" crap, either, but it's actually going to be something.

[Rynjin]

And they haven't gotten sidetracked, either. They're actually more focused on that goal than they ever have been. They're taking down (or attempting to sneakily steal from, but with this crew...) the people who hold the other bits of the map they need to find the One Piece. Technically they WOULD have been sidetracked by Sanji's imprisonment, but he luckily is being held in one of the places they needed to go anyway.

[McNum]

Deadpool vs. Pinkie Pie?

Apart from me hoping that they're going to narrate each other's profiles, because that would be funny, it seems like a kind of weird matchup. Obviously, Deadpool has an edge in weapons, even if Pinkie Pie has a cannon, but I'm not entirely sure if he can actually catch her. She's toon-fast, like Droopy, she's already there if you try to escape her, and she is precognitive enough to dodge with it. But on the other... hoof... Pinkie doesn't really have anything that can hurt Deadpool either. Well, not that he can't recover from, at least. I can't predict a winner here. By all rights, this should be a Deadpool victory, but it's Pinkie Pie. Never bet against pink.

I will say this, though. the format of the fight needs to be a Road Runner cartoon with Deadpool as Wile E. Coyote and Pinkie as the Road Runner. With Deadpool trying increasingly destructive and unlikely traps against her, only to be comedically injured when they backfire.

And if Pinkie wins, it'll be because she made Deadpool Pinkie Promise something... which he then broke. Never do that. Ever. Not even then.

[Yael]

Wait are you implying JoJo is bad?

How dare you!

He became stronger, although due to him not using the Ripple and his stand being mainly utility oriented he does the least of everyone. Yes, Kars was stronger than Dio, but Joseph was certainly out of his league.

The writing also defocused Joseph in favour of Jotaro (I believe this is why he doesn't get a humanoid Stand), which part 4 achieved by just keeping Jotaro out of plots rather than having him stay out of fights. So while technically it was a power up, he didn't get to use it as he was supposed to be a mentor type rather than the hero, it's the refocus that was truly my point.

Joseph³ was weaker. This is seen mostly because his trademark Claker Volley is lost and traded for Hermit Purple, which is a highly utility stand, but weaker in combat, also its circumstances of use make it very conditional and not very practical, as DIO's version was actually better.
He only fanserviced us twice with his ''your next line will be...'' and that's kind of sad, but is understandable because Stardust Crusaders was Jotaro's time to shine bright like a diamond, as Diamond is Unbreakable was for Josuke⁴.

Anyway, God Kars is actually a pretty strong opponent and there are few stand users that could even face him, not even defeating him.

[Kato]

Joseph³ was weaker. This is seen mostly because his trademark Claker Volley is lost and traded for Hermit Purple, which is a highly utility stand, but weaker in combat, also its circumstances of use make it very conditional and not very practical, as DIO's version was actually better.
He only fanserviced us twice with his ''your next line will be...'' and that's kind of sad, but is understandable because Stardust Crusaders was Jotaro's time to shine bright like a diamond, as Diamond is Unbreakable was for Josuke⁴.

Anyway, God Kars is actually a pretty strong opponent and there are few stand users that could even face him, not even defeating him.

So... This very rarely happens but I have almost no idea what was just said. I have very superficial knowledge of the story which I guess is how I managed to get any of that but this is exemplary proof of how even outside of science you can totally lose someone if he lacks foreknowledge

On topic: I like the idea of them turning this around and making the guys fight each other.

[Geno9999]

Deadpool vs. Pinkie Pie?

Apart from me hoping that they're going to narrate each other's profiles, because that would be funny, it seems like a kind of weird matchup. Obviously, Deadpool has an edge in weapons, even if Pinkie Pie has a cannon, but I'm not entirely sure if he can actually catch her. She's toon-fast, like Droopy, she's already there if you try to escape her, and she is precognitive enough to dodge with it. But on the other... hoof... Pinkie doesn't really have anything that can hurt Deadpool either. Well, not that he can't recover from, at least. I can't predict a winner here. By all rights, this should be a Deadpool victory, but it's Pinkie Pie. Never bet against pink.

I will say this, though. the format of the fight needs to be a Road Runner cartoon with Deadpool as Wile E. Coyote and Pinkie as the Road Runner. With Deadpool trying increasingly destructive and unlikely traps against her, only to be comedically injured when they backfire.

And if Pinkie wins, it'll be because she made Deadpool Pinkie Promise something... which he then broke. Never do that. Ever. Not even then.

Yeah that's pretty much how I figured the fight would go down. Deadpool is aware of the fourth wall but he's still confined to it, but it seems that Pinkie Pie is aware that she's cartoon character and can make liberal use of cartoon physics and offscreen teleportation, and has a Spider-man-esque Pinkie Sense that could be used to dodge danger.

Basically the only way Deadpool could win is if it was funny for him to do so.

[digiman619]

Deadpool vs. Pinkie Pie?

Apart from me hoping that they're going to narrate each other's profiles, because that would be funny, it seems like a kind of weird matchup. Obviously, Deadpool has an edge in weapons, even if Pinkie Pie has a cannon, but I'm not entirely sure if he can actually catch her. She's toon-fast, like Droopy, she's already there if you try to escape her, and she is precognitive enough to dodge with it. But on the other... hoof... Pinkie doesn't really have anything that can hurt Deadpool either. Well, not that he can't recover from, at least. I can't predict a winner here. By all rights, this should be a Deadpool victory, but it's Pinkie Pie. Never bet against pink.

I will say this, though. the format of the fight needs to be a Road Runner cartoon with Deadpool as Wile E. Coyote and Pinkie as the Road Runner. With Deadpool trying increasingly destructive and unlikely traps against her, only to be comedically injured when they backfire.

And if Pinkie wins, it'll be because she made Deadpool Pinkie Promise something... which he then broke. Never do that. Ever. Not even then.

I'm betting that it will end in a draw/they decide to stop fighting. Kinda like the Chuck Norris/Segata Sanshiro fight.

[McNum]

I'm betting that it will end in a draw/they decide to stop fighting. Kinda like the Chuck Norris/Segata Sanshiro fight.

Or it'll end up as Pinkie and 'Pool vs Wiz and Boomstick.

Because if any two characters would be able to pull that stunt off, it'd be these two. He knows the 4th wall, she can invoke toon physics at will. Together, they fight announcers.

[Lord Raziere]

Or it'll end up as Pinkie and 'Pool vs Wiz and Boomstick.

Because if any two characters would be able to pull that stunt off, it'd be these two. He knows the 4th wall, she can invoke toon physics at will. Together, they fight announcers.

Or that they flip the tables and make cartoon versions of Wiz and Boomstick fight each other complete with Bios about their capabilities. No matter how stupidly annoying I find Pinkie and no matter how much I love Deadpool, this doesn't really seem like a fight that should actually end with them killing each other. I'd be disappointed if they didn't do any twist like that, because if its just straight, no twist, then it just sucks either way:

if Deadpool wins, that means he killed a cute little pony. a FiM pony. Sure, I might find Pinkie annoying- the worst pony, but that would only make all her friends sad, so its like killing a thousand puppies or something.

if Pinkie Pie wins- well Deadpool simply should not be able to die in this fight. Pinkie Pie's reality warping runs on rule of funny. Deadpool surviving countless attacks and coming back up to fight again, runs on rule of funny. There is nothing that Pinkie Pie should be able to do that could possibly kill him no matter how much her reality warping works, simply because I can't see any death specific application for whatever she does. if Pinkie Pie wins, that means all logic is thrown out the window and its just like "seriously?"

The best ending for this is for them to turn on the announcers really. anything else would just either be sad or incredibly stupid.