Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

[Traab]

So they put up the power ranger teaser. Apparently they are drawing specifically and solely from the original (american) power rangers. No green ranger, no white ranger, no ultra deluxe quantum brachiasuar cop turbo ranger. And yep, they made sure to mention the unique capabilities of the different zords, freeze rays, grappling hooks, lightning laser beams, etc etc etc. I am far less familiar with voltron, so im looking forward to next week when we get to see what they can do.

[Rynjin]

So they're sticking to the weakest versions of the Mighty Morphin' crew?

That's pretty much the opposite of their norm.

[Kato]

So they're sticking to the weakest versions of the Mighty Morphin' crew?

That's pretty much the opposite of their norm.

But it's the original.. It's about the MMPW, not zeo or Turbo. There's not really a stronger version. It's not like using cell instead of perfect cell.

[Rynjin]

But it's the original.. It's about the MMPW, not zeo or Turbo. There's not really a stronger version. It's not like using cell instead of perfect cell.

The MMPR got way stronger over the course of the series. Remember, there were three total seasons of MMPR, unlike the seasons post-Zeo that were one and dones. Cutting out Tommy in itself is a major cut to their overall power since the Green/White Ranger was always the strongest. Ditto losing out on the Samurai Megazord and the other suped up versions the MMPR crew got, the Ninja powers, etc.

[Dragonus45]

But it's the original.. It's about the MMPW, not zeo or Turbo. There's not really a stronger version. It's not like using cell instead of perfect cell.

Well Zeo was stronger, as are some of the later seasons.

[Traab]

The MMPR got way stronger over the course of the series. Remember, there were three total seasons of MMPR, unlike the seasons post-Zeo that were one and dones. Cutting out Tommy in itself is a major cut to their overall power since the Green/White Ranger was always the strongest. Ditto losing out on the Samurai Megazord and the other suped up versions the MMPR crew got, the Ninja powers, etc.

The thing is, we are told they are stronger, but pretty much the only proof we have is the previous set being destroyed by the new bad guy. We dont see them go from say, destroying one building, to wiping out a block, its just a fancy new design and the formula for how fights play out remains identical. I do agree that losing tommy weakens them greatly, THAT they demonstrated quite clearly was a big power up. Its probably the whole thematic battle thing they enjoy so much. The original crew of voltron versus the original crew of mmpr. Any additions or upgrades that came along later are left out.

[Rynjin]

Eh, you could say the same about a lot of anime too. Once you hit "blow up a skyscraper sized creature" territory it's hard to gauge the "true power" of any blast or other attack since the good guys, presumably, don't want to wholesale Man of Steel the protected city.

Well Zeo was stronger, as are some of the later seasons.

Other seasons are arguable, but yeah Zeo is explicitly stated to be at a higher power scale than MMPR. Zeo is potentially THE STRONGEST season since the Zeo crystals have theoretically infinite power.

[Traab]

Eh, you could say the same about a lot of anime too. Once you hit "blow up a skyscraper sized creature" territory it's hard to gauge the "true power" of any blast or other attack since the good guys, presumably, don't want to wholesale Man of Steel the protected city.



Other seasons are arguable, but yeah Zeo is explicitly stated to be at a higher power scale than MMPR. Zeo is potentially THE STRONGEST season since the Zeo crystals have theoretically infinite power.

While its true that they dont always show the higher level of power, there is usually something done to demonstrate it. Even if its as simple as matching the guy who blew up an island and kicked the main characters butt earlier now being on the same level. Or there will be some sort of demonstration similar to the ichigo aizen fight where mountains are being casually obliterated by parried blows. And I understand WHY they couldnt do it in power rangers, lets face it, they dont have the budget to continually ramp up the effects to a wider scale until all battles happen in space to avoid destroying the planet with every punch. But when it comes to death battle, they rely on those casual destruction scenes to try and judge peak power levels. If all we get to judge it on is, "This monster that doesnt cause any more scenery destruction than previous monsters somehow obliterated the megazord, now here are your nextgenzords that can defeat him despite no obvious sign of greater power." then it doesnt matter much which version they go with as they all crush buildings as if they were oddly made of cardboard.

[Seppl]

While its true that they dont always show the higher level of power, there is usually something done to demonstrate it. Even if its as simple as matching the guy who blew up an island and kicked the main characters butt earlier now being on the same level. Or there will be some sort of demonstration similar to the ichigo aizen fight where mountains are being casually obliterated by parried blows. And I understand WHY they couldnt do it in power rangers, lets face it, they dont have the budget to continually ramp up the effects to a wider scale until all battles happen in space to avoid destroying the planet with every punch. But when it comes to death battle, they rely on those casual destruction scenes to try and judge peak power levels. If all we get to judge it on is, "This monster that doesnt cause any more scenery destruction than previous monsters somehow obliterated the megazord, now here are your nextgenzords that can defeat him despite no obvious sign of greater power." then it doesnt matter much which version they go with as they all crush buildings as if they were oddly made of cardboard.

But if you look at it that way it does not even matter for the purposes of Death Battle. DB tries to gauge the strength of a combatant by the things they do on screen, often looking at environmental damage. If you say DB should look at Zeo, the result will be that they are strong enough to rip skyscrapers to shreds as if they were cardboard. If DB only looks at the original rangers the result will be that they are strong enough to rip skyscrapers to shreds as if they were cardboard.

[Traab]

But if you look at it that way it does not even matter for the purposes of Death Battle. DB tries to gauge the strength of a combatant by the things they do on screen, often looking at environmental damage. If you say DB should look at Zeo, the result will be that they are strong enough to rip skyscrapers to shreds as if they were cardboard. If DB only looks at the original rangers the result will be that they are strong enough to rip skyscrapers to shreds as if they were cardboard.

Thats. My. Point. It doesnt much matter which version they pick because visually they all do similar levels of damage. There are some exceptions, such as knowing the green dragon zord is a relative match for the megazord by itself, meaning its incredibly powerful, but in general it doesnt matter if its mmpr, turbo, ninja, zeo, spartan, pirates, leviathans, old ones, tardis, whatever, because there is never any visual evidence of increased strength the death battle crew can draw from. We just accept that each incarnation is stronger than before and ignore the total lack of evidence.

[Dragonus45]

But if you look at it that way it does not even matter for the purposes of Death Battle. DB tries to gauge the strength of a combatant by the things they do on screen, often looking at environmental damage. If you say DB should look at Zeo, the result will be that they are strong enough to rip skyscrapers to shreds as if they were cardboard. If DB only looks at the original rangers the result will be that they are strong enough to rip skyscrapers to shreds as if they were cardboard.

They repeatedly use in universe statements of power to gauge thing though. Like how despite in series evidence showed Toph could not sense earth when she wasn't touching it they used a one off line in the commentary DVD commentary to say otherwise.

[Anteros]

They repeatedly use in universe statements of power to gauge thing though. Like how despite in series evidence showed Toph could not sense earth when she wasn't touching it they used a one off line in the commentary DVD commentary to say otherwise.

I think what's closer to the truth is that they cherry pick whatever supports the argument they're using at the time. There is no consistency to be had from Death Battle.

[Kyberwulf]

To be fair. A lot of people cherry pick a lot of things so their side can win

[Zalabim]

They repeatedly use in universe statements of power to gauge thing though. Like how despite in series evidence showed Toph could not sense earth when she wasn't touching it they used a one off line in the commentary DVD commentary to say otherwise.

Is this going to be that clip where the crew let their guard down and got captured again? Because I'll admit that the Death Battle research can be nonsense, but some people can say some stupid **** when they're upset too.

[Celestia]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't have any problems with Death Battle. Sure, it's not rigorous scientific study, but it doesn't have to be. They're comparing the uncertain statistics and abilities of fictions beings from different fictional universes. They're doing as well as they can be reasonably expected to.

[Knaight]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't have any problems with Death Battle. Sure, it's not rigorous scientific study, but it doesn't have to be. They're comparing the uncertain statistics and abilities of fictions beings from different fictional universes. They're doing as well as they can be reasonably expected to.

Not screwing up highschool level physics regularly is a pretty reasonable expectation, and they fall short.

[Anteros]

To be fair. A lot of people cherry pick a lot of things so their side can win

Those people aren't usually a professional business that claims to be objective and scientific in order to get customers.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't have any problems with Death Battle. Sure, it's not rigorous scientific study, but it doesn't have to be. They're comparing the uncertain statistics and abilities of fictions beings from different fictional universes. They're doing as well as they can be reasonably expected to.

You'll note that one minute melee, or that other channel that decides the fights based off voting don't get nearly as much criticism. It's just Death Battle's attitude of "we scientifically proved ourselves correct and there's no room for argument" attitude that rubs people the wrong way. Especially since a lot of their "science" is questionable at best.

[Forum Explorer]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't have any problems with Death Battle. Sure, it's not rigorous scientific study, but it doesn't have to be. They're comparing the uncertain statistics and abilities of fictions beings from different fictional universes. They're doing as well as they can be reasonably expected to.

I don't know, thinking creating duplicate soccer balls needs the force to smash multiple soccer ball makes them look pretty retarded.

In short, they don't just make questionable decisions based on what happens on screen, they sometimes make downright retarded decisions.

[Kyberwulf]

I don't think they claim to be professional. Besides, you have to look at the media you are consuming. Death battle isn't some high institution of academic learning. They are a group of entertainers. Asking silly questions. The degree of neediness from people to have these questions answered "rightly" astounds me.

[BWR]

The degree of neediness from people to have these questions answered "rightly" astounds me.

You realize you've just given us reason to ignore you in any VS. discussion ever, right?

[Kato]

Not screwing up highschool level physics regularly is a pretty reasonable expectation, and they fall short.

For example..?

Those people aren't usually a professional business that claims to be objective and scientific in order to get customers.



You'll note that one minute melee, or that other channel that decides the fights based off voting don't get nearly as much criticism. It's just Death Battle's attitude of "we scientifically proved ourselves correct and there's no room for argument" attitude that rubs people the wrong way. Especially since a lot of their "science" is questionable at best.

I don't know. Yeah, they kind of claim they use science but for as much as I can say, I never heard of them arguing with anyone and claiming to be anything else than entertainers. Let alone scientists.

I don't know, thinking creating duplicate soccer balls needs the force to smash multiple soccer ball makes them look pretty retarded.

In short, they don't just make questionable decisions based on what happens on screen, they sometimes make downright retarded decisions.

You know, I usually expect playgrounders to not resort to the use of words like those..
I'm not going to say I never disagree with their decisions but I'd certainly use another phrasing.

You realize you've just given us reason to ignore you in any VS. discussion ever, right?

I'm sure kyber is devastated

[Kyberwulf]

Meh, most people argue feelings anyway instead of logic in vs matches anyway. And I am devastated.. random people on the interwebZ will ignore me now.

Funny thing.. i meant to say nerdiness but my phones corrected it for me u guess.. it works either way.

[Celestia]

Yeah, they claim to answer these debates "once and for all," but that's obviously just an exaggeration. Do you get pissed off when the local pizza place claims to have the best pizza in the world? It's entertainment and nothing more. Don't hold it to an unreasonably high standard and then get upset when it fails to meet that standard.

[Maryring]

I don't get upset if the local Pizza place proclaims they have the best pizza in the world.

I do get upset when the local Pizza place proclaims to have the best pizza in the world, then serve me a pizza with undercooked crust, whole cloves of garlic and and peanuts instead of cashews like it says on the menu.

[Anonymouswizard]

Not screwing up highschool level physics regularly is a pretty reasonable expectation, and they fall short.

But that's the entire reason we watch them!

Those people aren't usually a professional business that claims to be objective and scientific in order to get customers.



You'll note that one minute melee, or that other channel that decides the fights based off voting don't get nearly as much criticism. It's just Death Battle's attitude of "we scientifically proved ourselves correct and there's no room for argument" attitude that rubs people the wrong way. Especially since a lot of their "science" is questionable at best.

I think this is the key, people still watch it for the bad science and hilarious reasonings, but get annoyed by the attitude.

[Knaight]

For example..?

I don't know. Yeah, they kind of claim they use science but for as much as I can say, I never heard of them arguing with anyone and claiming to be anything else than entertainers. Let alone scientists.

"Joules of force" comes to mind. There have also been a number of projectile calculations which ignored air resistance that had no business ignoring air resistance, and I'm pretty sure (but couldn't cite precise examples off the top of my head) that there have been a number of gravitational potential energy calculations that used the assumption of a constant gravitational force for things hurled high enough for that assumption to be completely terrible.

[Forum Explorer]

You know, I usually expect playgrounders to not resort to the use of words like those..
I'm not going to say I never disagree with their decisions but I'd certainly use another phrasing.

I couldn't think of a better word to describe how stupid that decision was. What would you go with?

[Kato]

"Joules of force" comes to mind. There have also been a number of projectile calculations which ignored air resistance that had no business ignoring air resistance, and I'm pretty sure (but couldn't cite precise examples off the top of my head) that there have been a number of gravitational potential energy calculations that used the assumption of a constant gravitational force for things hurled high enough for that assumption to be completely terrible.

Okay, first one if pretty stupid but I think we already had the talk about how some people, looking at no one particularly used to not using the metric system, has the same unit for force as for weight because I guess you can just slap "g" on it and it makes perfectly good sense. But yes, I'll give you that. Still, you said repeatedly, so let's go on.
Yes, because considering air resistance is such an easy, high school level task. How much time do you want them to spend on discussing drag and viscosity of air and what not? Yes, air resistance is a thing, and a thing high schoolers know about, but properly including it in your calculations is not, and even then, I can't think of too many occasions where this would have been crucial, i.e. not one but I don't claim to know every episode inside out so likely there might have been some.
Third... uhm.. like which one? The number of times something was lifted out of earth's gravity well must have been rather small and contrary to somewhat popular believe, lifting something to low orbit you don't "really" need to care about the decrease in gravity. Not for the kind of back-of-the-envelope maths the show does.


@Forum_Explorer You don't think stupid or idiotic would have been sufficiently degrading, you had to step into the realm of disabilities?

[Knaight]

Okay, first one if pretty stupid but I think we already had the talk about how some people, looking at no one particularly used to not using the metric system, has the same unit for force as for weight because I guess you can just slap "g" on it and it makes perfectly good sense. But yes, I'll give you that. Still, you said repeatedly, so let's go on.

If you're going to do physics at all, you can get used to the metric system. This is particularly true for the sort of things that you generally only deal with when doing physics (temperature, area, distance, volume, and maybe pressure come up in day to day life*

Yes, because considering air resistance is such an easy, high school level task. How much time do you want them to spend on discussing drag and viscosity of air and what not? Yes, air resistance is a thing, and a thing high schoolers know about, but properly including it in your calculations is not, and even then, I can't think of too many occasions where this would have been crucial, i.e. not one but I don't claim to know every episode inside out so likely there might have been some.

Acknowledging that it is in play and that certain numbers should be dramatically lowered or raised (e.g. the estimation on Scrooge McDuck's speed based on them intercepting a thrown object) would be nice. A fairly basic treatment using a F∝v or F∝v² model fit to terminal velocity approximations would be nice. I'm not saying they should be breaking out the fluid mechanics, but high school calculus? Sure.

Third... uhm.. like which one? The number of times something was lifted out of earth's gravity well must have been rather small and contrary to somewhat popular believe, lifting something to low orbit you don't "really" need to care about the decrease in gravity. Not for the kind of back-of-the-envelope maths the show does?

Low earth orbit is no big deal, assuming that you're willing to be about 5% off. Hurling something to the moon, or to the sun, or otherwise much further away makes it matter. On top o fhtat, every time things were thrown to low orbit (which is surprisingly often) my previous point about air resistance suddenly matters much more.

*Plus some stuff from electricity, but that's pretty thoroughly much all metric already, with the notable exception of the kWhr and MWhr.

[Anonymouswizard]

If you're going to do physics at all, you can get used to the metric system. This is particularly true for the sort of things that you generally only deal with when doing physics (temperature, area, distance, volume, and maybe pressure come up in day to day life*

What's really great about metric is the units, i can easily switch to the ones used for calculations (generally the non prefixed ones, occasionally not) and then shift them back to a different unit to make it easier to read.

Then again, I'm an Electronic and Electrical Engineer, so most of my units are metric as the only option, but working with meters isn't that uncommon, and I use metric as my everyday system because it makes it easier, most engineers and physicists I know do (then again, we are English). I know one person who hates metric with a passion.