Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

[Celestia]

Well, since the most recent games have no dodge or evasion stats being able to dodge is pretty damn useful. Might even dodge /kill

You can't dodge something that doesn't target or use any sort of "real" in game function. It's not throwing an attack at him, it's pushing a button to detonate a device that's already in his body.

[Anteros]

In any case, this would probably be the most underwhelming Death Battle to watch ever.

[Dragonus45]

You can't dodge something that doesn't target or use any sort of "real" in game function. It's not throwing an attack at him, it's pushing a button to detonate a device that's already in his body.

You can if you are Sans.

[Forum Explorer]

So. from a low ball interpretation of both fights:
-Asriel is just lying about his stats and Frisk is just dodging his playful attacks in the final corridor to the barrier and all this is just a very spectacular light show
-Sans and Chara are just a skeleton and a little kid in a hall way, with Sans stepping to the side of their little knife thrusts.

While a high ball interpretation of both goes:
-Asriel has warped all of reality, Frisk is a Human God of Pacifist Determination resisting his reality warping effects and using conjured food to sustain themselves while regenerating instantly every time they nearly die.
-Sans is a super-speed time-space ninja who has min-maxed himself to take on a Human God of Genocidal Determination and is hacking reality with his knowledge to trip Chara up at every point to prevent Chara from destroying all of time and space.

see the problem here? Undertales nature of non-linear power makes it really hard to judge how over the top the fights really are. One could make an argument for Sans being capable of taking on reality-destroyers, or being incapable of taking on a child. one could make an argument for Asriel being able reshape all of reality to his whim, one could make an argument for Asriel just be able to break down the barrier and be a fun fight.

Oh, I see the problem, though I say your low ball for Asriel/Frisk is too low. Frisk is dying, just like he does against any other opponent, it just won't stick at that point.

You can't dodge something that doesn't target or use any sort of "real" in game function. It's not throwing an attack at him, it's pushing a button to detonate a device that's already in his body.

There's no dodge ability in Undertale either, and yet Sans manages.

[Mato]

Secondly, I call you confrontational because that was the tone of your last post,

The intended tone was dismissive, as in DB is about to say what you're going to so let's just skip talking about it. And then Sub-Zero won, well even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Android 18? has been training, and kicked away a SS Blue Goku blast, thats real powerful, far more powerful than Cell.

DB doesn't use scaling like that. They also simultaneously admit Goku can easily blow up the solar system and claim he's too weak to fight someone who nearly KOs him self trying to punch a moon apart. Besides, SSB is practically worthless in Dragonball Super thanks to being the Worf.

Looking at their track record (kirby vs buu, goku vs superman, hercule vs dan, vegeta vs sonic) DB considers Dragonball to be fairly low powered and weak, often unable to do much of anything. For example, 18's video it up and shes only strong enough to punch people into the ground. This can also be seen in the opponent choice as Carol Danvers has limitations such as being able to fly mach 6 or lift 92 tons. So Ms Marvels ability to absorb a nuclear blast and fire it back I feel answers who will win.

[Lord Raziere]

Looking at their track record (kirby vs buu, goku vs superman, hercule vs dan, vegeta vs sonic) DB considers Dragonball to be fairly low powered and weak, often unable to do much of anything. For example, 18's video it up and shes only strong enough to punch people into the ground. This can also be seen in the opponent choice as Carol Danvers has limitations such as being able to fly mach 6 or lift 92 tons. So Ms Marvels ability to absorb a nuclear blast and fire it back I feel answers who will win.

Well screw Death Battle then, if they have an opinion on Dragon Ball, they should just state it in general rather than just acting as if their opinion on Dragon Ball is factual or backed up by their "research". They should just admit what everyone else does about these kinds of versus things: it honestly depends on whose writing it, there is NO actual objective way to do this. and Death Battle writes DBZ VERY POORLY.

[Anteros]

Well screw Death Battle then, if they have an opinion on Dragon Ball, they should just state it in general rather than just acting as if their opinion on Dragon Ball is factual or backed up by their "research". They should just admit what everyone else does about these kinds of versus things: it honestly depends on whose writing it, there is NO actual objective way to do this. and Death Battle writes DBZ VERY POORLY.

They write everything with a large rabid fanbase poorly. It's how they rile people up and get their clicks.

[chainer1216]

Well screw Death Battle then, if they have an opinion on Dragon Ball, they should just state it in general rather than just acting as if their opinion on Dragon Ball is factual or backed up by their "research". They should just admit what everyone else does about these kinds of versus things: it honestly depends on whose writing it, there is NO actual objective way to do this. and Death Battle writes DBZ VERY POORLY.

Its the way dragon ball is written that causes issues, we are TOLD that they are powerful enough to destroy /moons/planets/solar systems/ all of existence, but it never comes up, SS2 Gohan and Perfectest Cell both going ALL OUT in a beam struggle and theres no adverse effects to the planet yet Cell boasts he could destroy the solar system.

Goku, we're told he can accidentally destroy the universe now, but he was recently hurt by a bullet, and was nearly killed by a sucker punch(laser) from a mook.

We are TOLD a lot and more often SHOWN something else.

[Lord Raziere]

Its the way dragon ball is written that causes issues, we are TOLD that they are powerful enough to destroy /moons/planets/solar systems/ all of existence, but it never comes up, SS2 Gohan and Perfectest Cell both going ALL OUT in a beam struggle and theres no adverse effects to the planet yet Cell boasts he could destroy the solar system.

Goku, we're told he can accidentally destroy the universe now, but he was recently hurt by a bullet, and was nearly killed by a sucker punch(laser) from a mook.

We are TOLD a lot and more often SHOWN something else.

and y'know what martial artists are taught to do in that Universe? control their energy. As in, not be irresponsible enough for your power to actually blow everything up around you. their power NOT destroying everything around them is more of a testament to their skill than it actually happening. they are better fighters for not allowing their power to run out of control.

and yet, we are shown PICCOLO BLOWING UP A MOON, FREEZA ACTUALLY BLOWING PLANETS UP. KID BUU ACTUALLY BLOWING PLANETS UP. PEOPLE DEFEATING THEM BOTH. BEERUS BLOWING PLANETS UP. WE SEE PEOPLE DEFEATING THEM! I think thats a pretty good indication of how powerful they are! and yet people ignore that. its all ki and technique, if one fighter can do it, then they all can with training, thats how wuxia works! demonstrated by Super Buu yelling to get out of time chamber, then Gotenks doing the exact same thing to get out as well. and yet everyone ignores those examples.

and if we're including OG dragon Ball, Master Roshi blew up the moon before Z as well! Before Raditz, before any of Z, before even Piccolo!

Its pretty damn shown to me.

[Forum Explorer]

and y'know what martial artists are taught to do in that Universe? control their energy. As in, not be irresponsible enough for your power to actually blow everything up around you. their power NOT destroying everything around them is more of a testament to their skill than it actually happening. they are better fighters for not allowing their power to run out of control.

and yet, we are shown PICCOLO BLOWING UP A MOON, FREEZA ACTUALLY BLOWING PLANETS UP. KID BUU ACTUALLY BLOWING PLANETS UP. PEOPLE DEFEATING THEM BOTH. BEERUS BLOWING PLANETS UP. WE SEE PEOPLE DEFEATING THEM! I think thats a pretty good indication of how powerful they are! and yet people ignore that. its all ki and technique, if one fighter can do it, then they all can with training, thats how wuxia works! demonstrated by Super Buu yelling to get out of time chamber, then Gotenks doing the exact same thing to get out as well. and yet everyone ignores those examples.

and if we're including OG dragon Ball, Master Roshi blew up the moon before Z as well! Before Raditz, before any of Z, before even Piccolo!

Its pretty damn shown to me.

Planet blowing up is one thing. Solar system, and universe exploding is something completely else. I'm more inclined to think those claims are exaggerations and bragging rather then literal truth.

On a side note, do planets have Ki? Or basically, is a living planet more resistant to harm then say, Pluto?

[Lord Raziere]

Planet blowing up is one thing. Solar system, and universe exploding is something completely else. I'm more inclined to think those claims are exaggerations and bragging rather then literal truth.

On a side note, do planets have Ki? Or basically, is a living planet more resistant to harm then say, Pluto?

Entire universe shuddering as Goku goes SS3, Beerus and Goku's clashes sending out waves throughout all the universe that make it tremble. Zeno blowing up all of reality. all shown.

also, Beerus and Whis remembering that he once blew up galaxies and star clusters. doesn't sound like exaggeration when they're reminiscing about it.

its never said whether that planets having life is more resistant, and they seem to be able to destroy both easily anyways, training and proper use of ki is what matters, not that its there. the entire point of training is get all that ki under control so that its used properly, without training its useless, just diffuse invisible life force in all things. a fighter whose ki aura is restrained and controlled is more powerful than the showy theatrics of someone unleashing it all, since its more condensed and efficiently used, the whole super saiyan aura? thats just energy uselessly leaking out, its why Goku trained to Super Saiyan grade 4 in the first place against Cell so that he can go into that form and use it like a base form so that he wouldn't waste energy and stay in it as long as he wants without worrying of running out, and why he doesn't go into SS2 or 3 anymore- they're simply inefficient and impractical compared to SS1 or SS Blue.

So even if a living planet has more ki, it doesn't make a difference- the planet would have to train use the ki properly to defend itself.

[Anteros]

Yeah, we've seen characters in DB destroy planets with a finger tip. We've seen the weakest of characters blow up planets and moons. We've seen shockwaves from their punches almost destroy the universe. These things happened on screen and aren't really debatable.

Most of these type of complaints about Dragonball can apply to anything. If Superman was really as strong as claimed then he'd burn away the atmosphere and shatter the Earth all the time. Yet you don't have people running around saying Superman is actually weak because he doesn't kill all living things every time he goes outside.

[Kato]

Ah, you have to love the negativity here, especially when it comes to DBZ. But it's cool. I mean, clearly, if DB disagrees with you, it must be because they are biased idiots


So, something minor that felt weird to me in the 18 intro video... Red Ribbon was more powerful than all other of earth's armies? And Gero founded it?!

[Anteros]

Ah, you have to love the negativity here, especially when it comes to DBZ. But it's cool. I mean, clearly, if DB disagrees with you, it must be because they are biased idiots


So, something minor that felt weird to me in the 18 intro video... Red Ribbon was more powerful than all other of earth's armies? And Gero founded it?!

Much better to just condescendingly dismiss or insult people who disagree with you in an attempt to feel superior without making any actual points, right?

[Lord Raziere]

So, something minor that felt weird to me in the 18 intro video... Red Ribbon was more powerful than all other of earth's armies? And Gero founded it?!

The first part where the red Ribbon army was more powerful than all the others is true. even the world government army couldn't do anything against them.

Gero didn't found it through, it was led by Commander Red after all, and its entire purpose was to get the Dragon Balls so that he can become taller. Gero was just a scientist who somehow survived, who was never even mentioned until the Android Saga in DBZ. Gero was never mentioned in the original Dragon Ball, even through there were cyborgs/androids back then, just much weaker ones.

its not about whether they're biased or if even if they like it. Its about how they whether they like it or not, they do Dragon Ball poorly regardless.

[Anteros]

The first part where the red Ribbon army was more powerful than all the others is true. even the world government army couldn't do anything against them.

Gero didn't found it through, it was led by Commander Red after all, and its entire purpose was to get the Dragon Balls so that he can become taller. Gero was just a scientist who somehow survived, who was never even mentioned until the Android Saga in DBZ. Gero was never mentioned in the original Dragon Ball, even through there were cyborgs/androids back then, just much weaker ones.

its not about whether they're biased or if even if they like it. Its about how they whether they like it or not, they do Dragon Ball poorly regardless.

It's not really just Dragonball. The Cloud and Tifa fights were both awful and completely biased, and so we all know how controversial the Gara one was. They just like to piss off the large easily enraged fanbases.

[Kato]

Much better to just condescendingly dismiss or insult people who disagree with you in an attempt to feel superior without making any actual points, right?

Sorry if I came off as insulting. But frankly, I feel like we had these arguments a dozen times now and I neither see the point of bringing up old complaints nor repeating arguments in DB's defense.

It's not really just Dragonball. The Cloud and Tifa fights were both awful and completely biased, and so we all know how controversial the Gara one was. They just like to piss off the large easily enraged fanbases.

OK, tangential point but since it always bothers me when I click on the thread... If people are bothered enough by his loss to constantly bring him up, could you at least bother to write Gaara's name correctly?

And, as above, age old arguments concerning the problem with comparing game feats with... Well, anything, really. I don't mind you having a different opinion, at all, I mind the aggressive, negative way it's often posted. (not always, obviously)

[Rynjin]

Ah, you have to love the negativity here, especially when it comes to DBZ. But it's cool. I mean, clearly, if DB disagrees with you, it must be because they are biased idiots

It's when they disagree with facts specifically stated and shown in the source material that they're clearly biased. I mean, you don't have to be mad or anything to note it, they're pretty blatant about picking a side whenever they do a fight. They pick the fighters, pick a winner, and then do their "research" accordingly so they can cherry pick the best bits of the winner and gloss over the biggest feats of the loser.

So, something minor that felt weird to me in the 18 intro video... Red Ribbon was more powerful than all other of earth's armies? And Gero founded it?!

Red Ribbon was the world's foremost (only?) weapons technology company. They were Capsule Corps' biggest rival, so you know they're a big deal.

Basically, the Red Ribbon army was the private army of the richest or second richest man in the world who owned the biggest and best weapons R&D company in the world, so it makes sense why they were so powerful. Especially when you factor in the oldschool androids like Eighter and people like Mercenary Tao they could call on.

[Anteros]

OK, tangential point but since it always bothers me when I click on the thread... If people are bothered enough by his loss to constantly bring him up, could you at least bother to write Gaara's name correctly?

Didn't care enough to look it up, so I spelled it the same way it's spelled in the title. Honestly, who cares if a fictional character's name is spelled wrong?

[Traab]

Didn't care enough to look it up, so I spelled it the same way it's spelled in the title. Honestly, who cares if a fictional character's name is spelled wrong?

Probably the kind of people who argue over a fictional fight between fictional characters a year after it took place. So ME, MAN!!!!! How dare you disrespect the kazekage?!

[Anteros]

Probably the kind of people who argue over a fictional fight between fictional characters a year after it took place. So ME, MAN!!!!! How dare you disrespect the kazekage?!

You forgot to capitalize Kazekage. You've shamed yourself with your disrespect.


Yeah, honestly we're all a little silly on this forum sometimes.

[Dragonus45]

Goku, we're told he can accidentally destroy the universe now, but he was recently hurt by a bullet, and was nearly killed by a sucker punch(laser) from a mook.

So something that a very large number of people don't seem to understand, or refuse for the sake of complaining, is that Super has very clearly put stuff like that in to better demonstrate how defenses work in DBZ. They are active, you have to know a attack is coming. You have to be putting some form of effort of will into defending from the attack. When you aren't paying attention a well placed lazer in your back can take you down no matter how string you are, also remember that that bullet bounced right off him even when he wasn't defending. There is no contradiction there, it has nothing to do with him being close to a peer of a god of destruction. Who has the job description of remove any planet in existence any time he feels like it, and also in a fight with his brother could easily wipe out the world they are fighting in creating a need for them to battle through proxies and non direct combat. Gives us a good baseline for how powerful everyone else is.

Ah, you have to love the negativity here, especially when it comes to DBZ. But it's cool. I mean, clearly, if DB disagrees with you, it must be because they are biased idiots

I would call them biased marketing geniuses who understand how to get dem clicks.

[Traab]

You forgot to capitalize Kazekage. You've shamed yourself with your disrespect.


Yeah, honestly we're all a little silly on this forum sometimes.

Pfft, im a loyal member of konoha. The only kage I capitalize is the Hokage!

[Flickerdart]

Pfft, im a loyal member of konoha. The only kage I capitalize is the Hokage!

Not loyal enough to capitalize Konoha, apparently. The ANBU are coming for you.

[Dragonus45]

In my defense I was drinking when I made the title of the thread and it is past the point where I can fix it.

[Traab]

Not loyal enough to capitalize Konoha, apparently. The ANBU are coming for you.

Im not sure why you are assuming that you know the proper grammar and language rules for the elemental nations. Just because you read a version of it that was translated to japanese and from there to english, you are lucky it was even intelligible. Check your privilege.

[Flickerdart]

In my defense I was drinking when I made the title of the thread and it is past the point where I can fix it.

Well, now we have the answer for why Death Battle keeps getting all these fights wrong. Too many drinks soda pops.
^{Comment adapted for American audiences by 4Kids Entertainment.}

[Traab]

Well, now we have the answer for why Death Battle keeps getting all these fights wrong. Too many drinks soda pops.
^{Comment adapted for American audiences by 4Kids Entertainment.}

As long as we can have our lunch time donuts that are oddly triangular its ok.

[digiman619]

As long as we can have our lunch time donuts that are oddly triangular its ok.

I don't know what you're talking about. That's clearly hamentashen.

[Lemmy]

So something that a very large number of people don't seem to understand, or refuse for the sake of complaining, is that Super has very clearly put stuff like that in to better demonstrate how defenses work in DBZ. They are active, you have to know a attack is coming. You have to be putting some form of effort of will into defending from the attack. When you aren't paying attention a well placed lazer in your back can take you down no matter how string you are, also remember that that bullet bounced right off him even when he wasn't defending. There is no contradiction there, it has nothing to do with him being close to a peer of a god of destruction. Who has the job description of remove any planet in existence any time he feels like it, and also in a fight with his brother could easily wipe out the world they are fighting in creating a need for them to battle through proxies and non direct combat. Gives us a good baseline for how powerful everyone else is.

To be fair, that's only because DB Super has so many inconsistencies, it's a surprise it can keep the characters' names. Overall, it's a pretty crappy show that I only watch out of nostalgia.