Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

[Ramza00]

So when it is going to be revealed that Ninja Tom Riddle mind rape Sasuke and put part of his soul in him? Everyone else is doing it, so it likely did happen.

[Lord Raziere]

So when it is going to be revealed that Ninja Tom Riddle mind rape Sasuke and put part of his soul in him? Everyone else is doing it, so it likely did happen.

that already happened. his name is Orochimaru.

like, Orochimaru is like, snake themed? Voldemort is snake themed? they both desire immortality? they both use other vessels to live past their deaths? kind of obvious who ninja tom riddle is.

[LaZodiac]

that already happened. his name is Orochimaru.

like, Orochimaru is like, snake themed? Voldemort is snake themed? they both desire immortality? they both use other vessels to live past their deaths? kind of obvious who ninja tom riddle is.

Hey, Orochimaru is many things but "wizard fascist" is not one of those things. He wanted immortality only so he could learn every single jutsu every made. And to be blunt it was Danzo, through Itachi, that ****ed up Sasuke's head. Orochimaru was just kinda laying in the road, and Sasuke tripped over him on his fall.

Anyway here's an idea I had about the new chapter; if there's another ten-tails, do you think we'll give nine more tailed beast designs?

[Lord Raziere]

Hey, Orochimaru is many things but "wizard fascist" is not one of those things. He wanted immortality only so he could learn every single jutsu every made. And to be blunt it was Danzo, through Itachi, that ****ed up Sasuke's head. Orochimaru was just kinda laying in the road, and Sasuke tripped over him on his fall.

well technically, the ninja in Naruto are closer in function to yamabushi- japanese wizards- than to ninja, its just that ninja often get mixed up with them for some reason because romantic mysticism likes to make their badasses ever more badass. (the power creep in modern superhero/anime stuff is just that process made more efficient and formulaic)

while fascist......well lets be honest: what do you think Orochimaru would have to do, to GET all those jutsu ever made huh? He'd had to conquer all the nations, because all ninja have unique jutsu, then he'd have to abolish those jutsu being secret, so no privacy of information, because sneaky ninja could possibly sneak past a jutsu in code so that he doesn't learn it, so the shinobi nations would become a surveillance state where nothing is secret, so he can gather all the jutsu so he can learn it all then have people to put down rebellions while he is busy reading and practicing. that sounds pretty oppressive and fascist to me, he would've eventually become one.

so technically he is a wizard, and technically his goals would've probably lead him to becoming fascist on some level, because the naruto world and its clans and villages are built on secrets, and Orochimaru can't learn all jutsu if there are secrets, and what if there are jutsu unique to the jinchuuriki containers, etc, etc.

I mean whats the alternative? he could've established a jutsu academy outside the ninja villages, inviting everyone to share their jutsu information freely, but the ninja nations would see him as a threat to their village through the potential for him to just train any random person to become a ninja rather than the people the villages want to train so they can keep themselves in power. and even if he didn't get targeted, it would be slow he might lose a unique jutsu only person knows because they died or something. who knows how much jutsu is lost to the past because the people who figured them out kept them secret and never taught them to anyone else? he'd eventually have to start inventing time travel just to get those lost jutsu and thats where it really gets crazy. (Edit: oh right he can resurrect the dead, THATS how he planned to get around that little trouble)

so there is a lot of potential evil in Orochimaru's desires when thought through. though I guess he is not technically a fascist nor he did ever become one now that he is..."redeemed" seems a strong word for what he is now. that is the pathetic kindergarten sticker gold star he can validly wear on his rope-belt.

[Ramza00]

that already happened. his name is Orochimaru.

like, Orochimaru is like, snake themed? Voldemort is snake themed? they both desire immortality? they both use other vessels to live past their deaths? kind of obvious who ninja tom riddle is.

I know I was being perfectly obtuse *wink.*

Orochimaru is mostly Voldermort
Sasuke is the boy who lived through the massacure.
Itachi is Sasuke family connection that like Harry Potter's Parents gives power ups on occasion.
Tobi is Sasuke's Snape, supposedly Tobi is on Sasuke side but he is an additional source of trauma, plus he is the one who started all the family drama.
Naruto is Ron being Sasuke's shadow who is also an occasional comrade.
The Third Hokage is Dumbledore and like Dumbledore the Hokage is both all knowing but in reality is kind of a dumbass, or why else will the environment be what it is that the next generation has to clean up the messes made by the all powerful person screwing up.

Yes all of this is loose. But Naruto is what happened if Harry went evil as Sasuke.

[Kantaki]

Naruto is Ron being Sasuke's shadow who is also an occasional comrade.

That comparison is unfair.
Naruto is far more loyal than Ron.*
Also smarter.

*To the point of idiocy actually.
Seriously, most people would take getting run through with a sword as sign the other guy is somewhat beyond saving.

Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto

Well, to be fair, the arc is framed as Tsunade dreaming she is reading one of Jiraya's books.

So if we take into account what she knows about the characters (and how she thinks/feels about them), including the author, the story playing out like this makes a lot of sense.

Also, it gave us the brilliant plan of „Let's go and attack the Hokage's wife and son- who are powerful ninja in their own right -to show everyone how strong we are.
Nothing could possibly go wrong.”

[khadgar567]

okay normaly i like boruto to partner with kurama but having option to create completely unique set of tailed beasts catchs my intrest more as this means we gonna have 9 more WMD on the table needs to be solved and adopted by decent hosts.

[Rodin]

I actually rather liked this filler arc, because it showed that Sasuke had issues even if the trauma conga line that became his life didn't happen. We see Sasuke winding up at a similar point through the same sort of neuroses that got him in trouble in canon - obsession with Uchiha superiority, obsession with being the strongest, massive daddy issues, and general rage at the world for how his clan gets treated. It's unfortunate that the arc kind of falls apart at this point as they give up on the quite good original storytelling they were doing to simply mirror the canon story. I think this was because they knew they only had so many episodes to wrap things up and they wanted to speed things along.

I really would have liked to see them give this story the space it needed to breathe and an actual budget for the "What if?" fights. Including, you know, actually showing some of them.

[Rater202]

I actually rather liked this filler arc, because it showed that Sasuke had issues even if the trauma conga line that became his life didn't happen. We see Sasuke winding up at a similar point through the same sort of neuroses that got him in trouble in canon - obsession with Uchiha superiority, obsession with being the strongest, massive daddy issues, and general rage at the world for how his clan gets treated. It's unfortunate that the arc kind of falls apart at this point as they give up on the quite good original storytelling they were doing to simply mirror the canon story. I think this was because they knew they only had so many episodes to wrap things up and they wanted to speed things along.

I really would have liked to see them give this story the space it needed to breathe and an actual budget for the "What if?" fights. Including, you know, actually showing some of them.

But it doesn't show that.

This is a book that was written by Jiraiya in Tsunade's perfect world.

It's Tsunade's impression of Saskuke being distorted by the interpretation of Tsunade's impression of Jiraiya, meaning it's distorted three times over.

All this shows is that Tsunade thinks that Jiraiya thinks that Sasuke's degeneration into a complete nutcase was inevitable.

[Traab]

The whole interested in sasuke because itachis shelf life will be over thing COULD make sense if itachi has that lethal illness he did in canon (which he might as this is tsunades imagination and I think she knew he was ill, may be wrong) or even just having mangekyo means dude will be going blind shortly, making him far less useful three years from now. Ideally, if they want the most perfect setup, they would strive to activate sasukes mangekyo right before taking him over when he is at his peak performance and also the least experienced in using said abilities so he puts up less of a fight. I still say orochimaru should be vat growing uchiha clones to physical maturity instead of trying to kidnap actual known members of the clan as that way he isnt stuck with 3 years to learn every jutsu in the elemental nations then no hax eyes. Just keep body hopping into new vatchihas and keeping the cycle going. Heck, even having fun with modifying them as much as he likes since he has spares.

[LaZodiac]

All I'm saying is that the instant Orochimaru GOT his immortal body, he stopped being evil entirely. Morally ambigious yeah, but he was given a bunch of clones to work on and no one cares about that so he's in the clear now.

Also man it really shows how little interest people do actually have for Boruto that the newest chapter was actually really good and only me and Khadgar are talking about it.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, to be fair, the arc is framed as Tsunade dreaming she is reading one of Jiraya's books.

So if we take into account what she knows about the characters (and how she thinks/feels about them), including the author, the story playing out like this makes a lot of sense.

Also, it gave us the brilliant plan of „Let's go and attack the Hokage's wife and son- who are powerful ninja in their own right -to show everyone how strong we are.
Nothing could possibly go wrong.”

To be fair, that is the arc's saving grace. The plot holes can be covered over (somewhat) because it's fictional even to the fiction and makes sense coming from the character it is, along with little oddities that makes sense it coming from Tsunade's point of view. (Like why Sakura has her post-chunin exams hair (and competance), but Ino's is long again. And why Hinata isn't quite so fainting-over-Naruto...)

Sasuke's "I'm gonna go crazy" now was just SO blatent, it knocked me rather out of the immersion, though.

Still, while it's not as shiny as it was, it's not BAD. Crazy!Evil Sasuke IS still more FUN that broody-miserable Sasuke, so there's that to it.



Though it occured to me last night just before meditation, dunno HOW this Sasuke is going to activate the Manky Yo-Yo Sharigan, since in order for the guilt/trauma to strike, he'd have to have someone he cares about first and...

On my Lichemaster, it's going to be the dog, isn't it?

I'm not sure whether that Sasuke going to deliberately kill his dog to awaken his sharigan Hax mode will be funny or just contrived.

All I'm saying is that the instant Orochimaru GOT his immortal body, he stopped being evil entirely. Morally ambigious yeah, but he was given a bunch of clones to work on and no one cares about that so he's in the clear now.

Also man it really shows how little interest people do actually have for Boruto that the newest chapter was actually really good and only me and Khadgar are talking about it.

Well, you know it'll be YEARS before I get there...!

[LaZodiac]

To be fair, that is the arc's saving grace. The plot holes can be covered over (somewhat) because it's fictional even to the fiction and makes sense coming from the character it is, along with little oddities that makes sense it coming from Tsunade's point of view. (Like why Sakura has her post-chunin exams hair (and competance), but Ino's is long again. And why Hinata isn't quite so fainting-over-Naruto...)

Sasuke's "I'm gonna go crazy" now was just SO blatent, it knocked me rather out of the immersion, though.

Still, while it's not as shiny as it was, it's not BAD. Crazy!Evil Sasuke IS still more FUN that broody-miserable Sasuke, so there's that to it.

Though it occured to me last night just before meditation, dunno HOW this Sasuke is going to activate the Manky Yo-Yo Sharigan, since in order for the guilt/trauma to strike, he'd have to have someone he cares about first and...

On my Lichemaster, it's going to be the dog, isn't it?

I'm not sure whether that Sasuke going to deliberately kill his dog to awaken his sharigan Hax mode will be funny or just contrived.

Well, you know it'll be YEARS before I get there...!

Uh. Sasuke already has a mangakyo sharingan, he got it when he killed Itachi.

It'll be even more delayed because you're watching the anime only I think, and the Boruto anime takes it's sweet ass time (they don't get to the start of the actual canon start until like the end of season 1 or something)

[Rater202]

All I'm saying is that the instant Orochimaru GOT his immortal body, he stopped being evil entirely. Morally ambigious yeah, but he was given a bunch of clones to work on and no one cares about that so he's in the clear now.

I mean, Orochimaru explicitly states that dying and coming back changed his perspective on things and now he mostly just wants to see things play out.

Remove the death and return and he might have behaved differently

And also he knows for a fact that Sasuke is much stronger than he is by the time of his resurrection--he flat out says something to the effect of "I still want to steal your body but it'd be too much hassle" and that both Naruto and Sasuke are miles beyond his power level and they still have years in their prime yet.

"I will take advantage of the loose clemency being offered to me since I helped save the world becuase I know full damn well that if I piss off these two God-Children that they will tie me to a pole by my disgustingly long tongue and use me to play tetherball" is a perfectly rational decision.

[Aotrs Commander]

Uh. Sasuke already has a mangakyo sharingan, he got it when he killed Itachi.

No, not, canon!Sasuke - Tsunade'sFantasySasuke, who has just left the village. (Itachi is not dead, at last count, he's helping the Forth Hokage try and get the Uchiha to integrate back into the village, though they are trying making me question why anyone is bothering...)

It'll be even more delayed because you're watching the anime only I think, and the Boruto anime takes it's sweet ass time (they don't get to the start of the actual canon start until like the end of season 1 or something)

Well, it's either extra content/endless Filler Arcs or FMA 2002, so...!

[Kantaki]

No, not, canon!Sasuke - Tsunade'sFantasySasuke, who has just left the village. (Itachi is not dead, at last count, he's helping the Forth Hokage try and get the Uchiha to integrate back into the village, though they are trying making me question why anyone is bothering...

It's almost as if they're trying to prove that the massacre was the right move...

No, seriously.
The more we see of the Uchiha- both in canon and in this AU -the more I'm convinced that the only thing wrong about it was leaving a survivor.

[khadgar567]

I took me bit of a while to get the memo but you guys are last lap of series as looks like tree of power grabed every one except team 7 which means its few more crappy arcs until the series ending. ah finaly bleak bane sees the checkered flag this means we are finaly discussing boruto era topics.

[Lord Raziere]

All I'm saying is that the instant Orochimaru GOT his immortal body, he stopped being evil entirely. Morally ambigious yeah, but he was given a bunch of clones to work on and no one cares about that so he's in the clear now.

Also man it really shows how little interest people do actually have for Boruto that the newest chapter was actually really good and only me and Khadgar are talking about it.

well to me, I prefer to watch anime rather than read manga, its the motion and the music that really helps me remember and get into the moment, so I'm waiting until I can actually watch it rather than just read it, and Boruto anime is stuck on filler. having an entire season 1 of filler is kind not a good place to be for a shonen anime.

[Ramza00]

All I'm saying is that the instant Orochimaru GOT his immortal body, he stopped being evil entirely. Morally ambigious yeah, but he was given a bunch of clones to work on and no one cares about that so he's in the clear now.

Also man it really shows how little interest people do actually have for Boruto that the newest chapter was actually really good and only me and Khadgar are talking about it.

Orochimaru has always been driven by Greed, not Greed for Greed sake but instead Greed in the fear of loss, death, wasted energy, wasted time, wasted attention, so on and so on. What I am saying here is Orochimaru is driven by Greed as in stinginess and retention.

Now Greed the vice is also attached to the vice of forcefulness / lust and also gluttony where in stress the person who craves stinginess may become gluttoniness when you lower the self regulatory energy, and when you elevate the self regulatory energy you see more forcefulness / lust in their behavior.

If Orochimaru can grapple with his primary vice (and I would argue he has successfully done so via his death and obtaining his immortal body) he would take on more of an investigator / detached observer turning his vice of greed / stinginess to the virtue of non-attachment to material things. Allowing things to change and not to "cling" to the temporary essence they possess at this moment of being, but instead to accept that change always occurs in the process of becoming, existence is more important than essence.

Effectively Orochimaru has become an aesthetic monk, and derives joy from his aestheticism by mastering his bodily desires and has learn to derive joy from mental simulation (empathy and sympathy are two forms of mental simulation, but learning for learning's sake as an observer is another.)

All I'm saying is that the instant Orochimaru GOT his immortal body, he stopped being evil entirely. Morally ambigious yeah, but he was given a bunch of clones to work on and no one cares about that so he's in the clear now.

Also man it really shows how little interest people do actually have for Boruto that the newest chapter was actually really good and only me and Khadgar are talking about it.

I am really interested in Boruto, and a x100 not interested. It is moving way too slow so I do not get any joy from partial revelations for it takes too long between partial revelation that I get no joy from experiencing it directly, or speculating what is coming next. Boruto is moving so slowly I am apathetic of what is happening with it.

Now this may change for it was announced in this chapter (35) that Boruto is moving to Weekly Shonen Jump, but does that mean it is going to be a weekly manga, or once every two weeks in a weekly manga, or once every 4 weeks and so on?

My point here is Boruto is not strong enough as a story to keep my interest going like Fullmetal Alchemist did as a monthly manga. Now as a weekly or every two week manga it may rekindle my interest in it.

Sigh, for it would be great for Boruto to be awesome.

[Aotrs Commander]

It's almost as if they're trying to prove that the massacre was the right move...

No, seriously.
The more we see of the Uchiha- both in canon and in this AU -the more I'm convinced that the only thing wrong about it was leaving a survivor.

I have observed this before, about the time it was first revealed that the sharigarn makes you genectially disposed to going bonkers...

[Lord Raziere]

I have observed this before, about the time it was first revealed that the sharigarn makes you genectially disposed to going bonkers...

counter argument: if sasuke didn't survive, we wouldn't have Sarada. and I don't care what anyone think of her, she is the best thing about the Boruto show.

[Traab]

I have observed this before, about the time it was first revealed that the sharigarn makes you genectially disposed to going bonkers...

On the one hand, you would think that being far more likely to go insane is a bad evolutionary trait. On the other hand, its connected to being bonkers strong in a setting where slaughter is how everything is done, so maybe being extra ruthless towards everyone works in the setting as a survival trait when paired with an absolutely broken bloodline skill.

[LaZodiac]

It's almost as if they're trying to prove that the massacre was the right move...

No, seriously.
The more we see of the Uchiha- both in canon and in this AU -the more I'm convinced that the only thing wrong about it was leaving a survivor.

I mean, yeah. That's basically canon and is never contested in the series. Danzo was a ****ing monster but also um... right. Oops.

well to me, I prefer to watch anime rather than read manga, its the motion and the music that really helps me remember and get into the moment, so I'm waiting until I can actually watch it rather than just read it, and Boruto anime is stuck on filler. having an entire season 1 of filler is kind not a good place to be for a shonen anime.

That's perfectly reasonable a point.

Orochimaru has always been driven by Greed, not Greed for Greed sake but instead Greed in the fear of loss, death, wasted energy, wasted time, wasted attention, so on and so on. What I am saying here is Orochimaru is driven by Greed as in stinginess and retention.

Now Greed the vice is also attached to the vice of forcefulness / lust and also gluttony where in stress the person who craves stinginess may become gluttoniness when you lower the self regulatory energy, and when you elevate the self regulatory energy you see more forcefulness / lust in their behavior.

If Orochimaru can grapple with his primary vice (and I would argue he has successfully done so via his death and obtaining his immortal body) he would take on more of an investigator / detached observer turning his vice of greed / stinginess to the virtue of non-attachment to material things. Allowing things to change and not to "cling" to the temporary essence they possess at this moment of being, but instead to accept that change always occurs in the process of becoming, existence is more important than essence.

Effectively Orochimaru has become an aesthetic monk, and derives joy from his aestheticism by mastering his bodily desires and has learn to derive joy from mental simulation (empathy and sympathy are two forms of mental simulation, but learning for learning's sake as an observer is another.)

I am really interested in Boruto, and a x100 not interested. It is moving way too slow so I do not get any joy from partial revelations for it takes too long between partial revelation that I get no joy from experiencing it directly, or speculating what is coming next. Boruto is moving so slowly I am apathetic of what is happening with it.

Now this may change for it was announced in this chapter (35) that Boruto is moving to Weekly Shonen Jump, but does that mean it is going to be a weekly manga, or once every two weeks in a weekly manga, or once every 4 weeks and so on?

My point here is Boruto is not strong enough as a story to keep my interest going like Fullmetal Alchemist did as a monthly manga. Now as a weekly or every two week manga it may rekindle my interest in it.

Sigh, for it would be great for Boruto to be awesome.

I'll be honest I just love that Orochimaru is one of the series greatest actual monsters but in the end he wins beyond all recognition and isn't hurt in any way.

If it's moving to Weekly Shonen Jump, it's probably becoming weekly. Which is probably for the better since it IS taking... forever, to do anything.

[Ramza00]

I'll be honest I just love that Orochimaru is one of the series greatest actual monsters but in the end he wins beyond all recognition and isn't hurt in any way.

I agree. It is irony (maybe irony is not the right word here.) Where I feel satisfied (not gratified, but the other meaning) of Orochimaru's end while I find Sasuke's to be somewhat offensive. Orochimaru has atoned somewhat, but also recognizes he can't atone / is indifferent about atonning further. He is just going to do his buddhist monk thing and lots of science in the corner.

While Sasuke preaches the need to attone, yet actually does nothing to atone besides a 10+ year quest investigating the Otsutsuki clan. The voice / intent does not match his actions. While Orochimaru has barely done anything either, but he does not get all preachy about his need to atone.

I am satisfied with evil Orochimaru ending where he is still evil but his evilness is more of a neutral variety. Sasuke ending I just find boring and unsatisfying.

If it's moving to Weekly Shonen Jump, it's probably becoming weekly. Which is probably for the better since it IS taking... forever, to do anything.

It moving to Weekly Shonen Jump implies it becoming weekly. But it could be moving for the monthly Shonen Jump is getting new stuff so they may be cycling things around for the other properties. I do not claim to understand what is happening or having some special knowledge. I am mostly clueless here.

[Rater202]

On the one hand, you would think that being far more likely to go insane is a bad evolutionary trait. On the other hand, its connected to being bonkers strong in a setting where slaughter is how everything is done, so maybe being extra ruthless towards everyone works in the setting as a survival trait when paired with an absolutely broken bloodline skill.

The thing about evolution is that it's totally random. No guiding force.

Mutations just happen. If they happen to make someone even sligtly more likily to reproduce, they get passed on and over the generations.

As I understand it, from the time of Asura and Indra till the Leaf Village was founded it was basically just endless war between individual clans.

Indra's descendants have the Sharingan, a power that activates and grows stronger in response to mental and emotional distress.

Teh Sharingan has dozens of combat applications, vastly increasing the odds of survival and thus reproduction in a war scenario.

Which means that, while seemingly counterproductive, among Indra's descendants it would be the ones who were most prone to suffering from psychological stress and instability would be the strongest and thus the most likily to not die in battle, and thus the most likily to live long enough to have kids.

Over the course of a few centuries--especially since the Uchiha probably had a habit of marrying cousins since every Uchiha we see looks very similar and honestly if you're trying to preserve a genetic trait--and every Uchiha is genetically prone to psychological illness from generations of compounded crazy.

And the Wars didn't stop when the villages were founded. If anything they got worse, and Ninja fights are very high risk, so Uchiha with weaker Sharingan are still more likily to die so the crazy genes compounding keeps going to Sasuke's generation.

Of course, since the warring is over with most villages being allied and threats being small groups and outside threats coupled with warfare being different, it's likily that Sasuke's descendants won't be selecting for mental instability and this straight might fade with time.

The fact that future Uchihas won't be inbreeding for at least several generations would help too.

[Ramza00]

Stop trying to bring science such as evolution where people can do magic such as explosive forces from nowhere, astral projection and capturing people's bodies, creating illusions and so on. Their world works on different principles than ours and it is a flawed assumption that we can transfer our worlds rules into their worlds if there is no mention of how the world works in a specific domain.

We have no clue if evolution works in Naruto.

[LaZodiac]

All chakra was made by the moon alien demon eating a fruit and then sharing it with her children, who then shared it with the humans. Evolution doesn't exist it's all magical eyeballs.

[Lord Raziere]

Stop trying to bring science such as evolution where people can do magic such as explosive forces from nowhere, astral projection and capturing people's bodies, creating illusions and so on. Their world works on different principles than ours and it is a flawed assumption that we can transfer our worlds rules into their worlds if there is no mention of how the world works.

We have no clue if evolution works in Naruto.

well TECHNICALLY.....

chakra and thus Sharingan only comes into play AFTER humanity already exists. they didn't have any of this magic BEFORE Kaguya landed and started screwing someone.

humanity already had civilization without sharingan. so, evolution isn't even involved!

whats involved, therefore is a culture of people deciding that this sharingan trait they got is worth cultivating and passing on, therefore technically whats occurring is sociology and eugenics.

them cousin marriages? all pre-arranged at birth and kept separate so no westermarck effect. and a culture where people are raised to see marriage as strictly political and for the gain of the family rather than any notions of love, and they do it because they're proud to serve their cause.

and so on and so forth.

but humanity was technically there for Kaguya to mate with in the first place, with no canonical origin for humanity BEFORE she arrived. if no gods were said to create humanitty, therefore evolution exists, it just doesn't apply to the sharingan because even centuries of civilization-involved selection isn't evolution. its just "oh hey this son of this new magical source can pass down his powerful eyes? cool, lets make him marry people and get more of that." which is eugenics and sociology. evolution is a force that works on longer timescales and any human decision-making in the process renders it null and void.

[Ramza00]

There were multiple theories of evolution prior to Darwin and the 50 or so years after Darwin published Origin of the Species in 1859, where the scientists and so on agreed upon the exact process evolution occurs. Not just Lamarckism but stuff way before Lamarck.

Literally 2000+ years of historical thought that has been written down in so many places we may think the concept existed prior to massive writting / alphabet / recorded history. Greek Thought had the concept of species changing and dying off 2600+ years ago, 300 years later Aristotle (2300 years ago) wrote a lot on his theories of the natural evolution of life. Likewise Zhuang Zhou, one of the two founders of taoism 2300+ years ago had similar thoughts. Yadda Yadda Yadda lots of examples I am skipping and also lots of examples who state some form of religion / mythology / origin myth is responsible for the creation of various species.

But even before Darwin concept of species the concept that children physical traits are influenced by their parents to some degree is a fundamental insight that humans have been using for the domesticization of over a dozen animal species prior to 5000+ years ago. Furthermore various plant cultivation techniques such as grafting is at least 3500 to 3800 years old.

The mechanism of which traits are inherited from parent to children was what is up for debate and that has had a very flexible definitions and multiple hypothesis if you look at the totality of human history.

-----

Thus in a fantasy world you should not assume 20th century understanding of evolution is the norm of how traits are reproduced. The idea of Lamarckism is very different than the idea of evolution that Darwin proposed (and others refined) and so on.

[Lord Raziere]

There were multiple theories of evolution prior to Darwin and the 50 or so years after Darwin published Origin of the Species in 1859, where the scientists and so on agreed upon the exact process evolution occurs. Not just Lamarckism but stuff way before Lamarck.

Literally 2000+ years of historical thought that has been written down in so many places we may think the concept existed prior to massive writting / alphabet / recorded history. Greek Thought had the concept of species changing and dying off 2600+ years ago, 300 years later Aristotle (2300 years ago) wrote a lot on his theories of the natural evolution of life. Likewise Zhuang Zhou, one of the two founders of taoism 2300+ years ago had similar thoughts. Yadda Yadda Yadda lots of examples I am skipping and also lots of examples who state some form of religion / mythology / origin myth is responsible for the creation of various species.

But even before Darwin concept of species the concept that children physical traits are influenced by their parents to some degree is a fundamental insight that humans have been using for the domesticization of over a dozen animal species prior to 5000+ years ago. Furthermore various plant cultivation techniques such as grafting is at least 3500 to 3800 years old.

The mechanism of which traits are inherited from parent to children was what is up for debate and that has had a very flexible definitions and multiple hypothesis if you look at the totality of human history.

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Thus in a fantasy world you should not assume 20th century understanding of evolution is the norm of how traits are reproduced. The idea of Lamarckism is very different than the idea of evolution that Darwin proposed (and others refined) and so on.

Ramza your a smart person and I respect that, but I have to break your heart and tell you that your giving people way too much credit by assuming anyone aside from a biologist knows enough about the history of evolutionary theory to actually intentionally write any of those into anything. as well as giving anything but dedicated history nerds any credit about how much they care about outdated theories of evolution and genetic inheritance.

because I can fully believe that what you say is true, we can underestimate the ancients and what they understood at times, I just can't find it in myself to give a ****. its just simpler and easier to assume it runs on real world rules since we're filling in the blanks anyways, this is what we know is accurate and therefore most understandable to us. I mean who are we appealing to with alternate explanations? all those people who are dead and can't participate in our discussion?

don't get me wrong, I'd love to perhaps worldbuild a fantasy setting with outdated theories of genetic inheritance and how they'd affect society if they were true, but aside from the chakra magic, naruto follows a lot of our own rules of the world, its tech is about 1940's in Naruto era, while 2000's onward in Boruto era so I'm leaning towards assuming that much of its physical rules are almost the same, because the non-chakra technology involved needs similar structures to support it. and regardless of what people BELIEVED, the theory we have now has always been accurate and thus has always applied even if no one knew it applied yet, people trudged on despite not knowing it exactly, and they might not know the reasons why a process works, but they still do it. someone can figure out how to make steel without knowing about carbon, and they did. same principle.

but even then, our modern theories of evolution developed two centuries ago, and the Ninja Wars are relatively recent, only in the last 80 years or so! thats quite recent to have your equivalent of world wars. the modern theory of evolution was like, only a few decades before those? its perfectly possible for them to know and do it if we assume the previous era was roughly equivalent to their victorian one, and if you go on about how false equivalencies and no assuming other worlds have the same history as ours, its a fantasy story, the writer is going to pull from real life events to put into it and writer clearly pulled from the world wars when thinking of the bijuu and the village system and the ninja wars. though admittedly, the previous era of Naruto is closer to the Sengoku Jidai, so the shift skips over this whole meiji era thing that happened, but Naruto isn't exactly the best writing ever.

because dude. you can harp on the whole "no making assumptions" thing but thats just blinding yourself and assuming effort was put into it that....clearly wasn't.