Naruto IX: [Epilogue Intensifies]

[Traab]

The thing about evolution is that it's totally random. No guiding force.

Mutations just happen. If they happen to make someone even sligtly more likily to reproduce, they get passed on and over the generations.

As I understand it, from the time of Asura and Indra till the Leaf Village was founded it was basically just endless war between individual clans.

Indra's descendants have the Sharingan, a power that activates and grows stronger in response to mental and emotional distress.

Teh Sharingan has dozens of combat applications, vastly increasing the odds of survival and thus reproduction in a war scenario.

Which means that, while seemingly counterproductive, among Indra's descendants it would be the ones who were most prone to suffering from psychological stress and instability would be the strongest and thus the most likily to not die in battle, and thus the most likily to live long enough to have kids.

Over the course of a few centuries--especially since the Uchiha probably had a habit of marrying cousins since every Uchiha we see looks very similar and honestly if you're trying to preserve a genetic trait--and every Uchiha is genetically prone to psychological illness from generations of compounded crazy.

And the Wars didn't stop when the villages were founded. If anything they got worse, and Ninja fights are very high risk, so Uchiha with weaker Sharingan are still more likily to die so the crazy genes compounding keeps going to Sasuke's generation.

Of course, since the warring is over with most villages being allied and threats being small groups and outside threats coupled with warfare being different, it's likily that Sasuke's descendants won't be selecting for mental instability and this straight might fade with time.

The fact that future Uchihas won't be inbreeding for at least several generations would help too.

Another possibility being, the sharingan itself is such an overwhelming positive on the the "survive long enough to reproduce" scale, that even being batspit crazy isnt enough to counteract the sum total of its benefits. As an example of what I mean, if we were absolutely identical in every way, but I am blind, you would estimate that your chances of survival in an uncivilized world are higher than mine, right? I have a significant disadvantage compared to you. However, now assume that my being blind makes me roughly 5x faster, stronger, more durable, and allows me to sense danger like im spiderman. Suddenly the fact that im blind doesnt mean im less likely to survive than you. Its still a big disadvantage as sight is better than no sight, but the other benefits I get more than make up for it.

[Ramza00]

Ramza your a smart person and I respect that, but I have to break your heart and tell you that your giving people way too much credit by assuming anyone aside from a biologist knows enough about the history of evolutionary theory to actually intentionally write any of those into anything. as well as giving anything but dedicated history nerds any credit about how much they care about outdated theories of evolution and genetic inheritance.

This is my point! *Laughs* you are giving too much credit that the Naruto storymakers (Kishimoto and now his successor Kodachi plus related company) know how evolution works, and even if they know how it works you assume they care and want to make the rules of evolution (as we understand them today) apply and map onto a fantasy fiction world.

The whole point of a fantasy fiction world is you have the power of creation, the power of storytelling, the power of narration and you get to decide how the world works.

And we actually have evidence that rules of genetics as we understand them in our world (evolution plus mendelian inheritance aka the plant guy who figured out dominant and recessive genes) does not apply to the Naruto world.

For example "bloodline limits" need not be transmitted via blood or body parts but can be transferred merely by unique chakra profiles and these chakra profiles are not transmitted mother and father to daughter and son. Sometimes they are just given from one person to another as strangers, or one person to another as relatives.

For example.

Obito sending chakra from the land of the dead (the pure world) to Kakashi and suddenly Kakashi has a bloodline limit even without the magic eyeballs.
Naruto manifesting bloodline limits that the tail beast have even though he does not have the beast himself inside him anymore, just echos of their chakra the beasts gave him as gifts.
The whole Asura and Indra chakra reincarnating over time and space where the chakra reincarnates but not the souls themselves with Asura and Indra, and the chakra only reincarnates if the personality / temperament of the reincarnations are similar enough to Asura and Indra.
So on and so on.

Furthermore we have bloodline limit users that have a bloodline limit that is not seen for generations such as Kimimaro (bone guy) and Wood Release. Kimimaro as a child is locked up for he manifests the bloodline limit and the head of his clan feared this child and no one of Kimimaro generation of Kaguya had the power only the child had no one living of the Kaguya clan (it was a bloodline of myth.)

Likewise with wood release most of the wood release users we see are tied to the First Hokage and his DNA in some way with organ / dna grafting yet the same can not be said for Moegi Kazamatsuri (Konohamaru former girl teammate with orange pigtails that stand up. Part of team Ebisu.)

Now perhaps this is all a double recessive gene required to manifest these bloodline limits in a Mendelian Inheritance fashion. Perhaps but it is unlikely. The more likely thing is we can't just transfer over our real world rules of how the world works onto a fantasy world with magic and magic eyeballs.

Doing so is motivated reasoning, you are seeing patterns in the raw data that may not exist but you want them to exist..

-----






My point is this is fancy fantasy, just turn off your brain and its own memory system of how the world is supposed to work and just take delight into the story and only remember the rules the text itself specifically teaches you as rules that apply to the text.

We already know from the text itself that fancy eyeball magic and its predecessor that is chakra is a memory system itself and it transfers superpowers, memories, souls, etc completely irrespective of the two memory systems we are familiar with in our human real world which is genes and which is human culture and the lived memory that is human culture. Recently humans have also created other memory devices such as film, audio, writting, so on and so on, but magic chakra is so much a better memory system per the text.

And this memory system modifies your phenotype, your exposed traits, the observed characteristics you manifest to the external world.

A wizard did it. Accept that.

-----

^{I apologize if I am a little too intense in this thread recently. Fantasy is supposed to be fun.}

[Lord Raziere]

This is my point! *Laughs* you are giving too much credit that the Naruto storymakers (Kishimoto and now his successor Kodachi plus related company) know how evolution works, and even if they know how it works you assume they care and want to make the rules of evolution (as we understand them today) apply and map onto a fantasy fiction world.

The whole point of a fantasy fiction world is you have the power of creation, the power of storytelling, the power of narration and you get to decide how the world works.

And we actually have evidence that rules of genetics as we understand them in our world (evolution plus mendelian inheritance aka the plant guy who figured out dominant and recessive genes) does not apply to the Naruto world.

For example "bloodline limits" need not be transmitted via blood or body parts but can be transferred merely by unique chakra profiles and these chakra profiles are not transmitted mother and father to daughter and son. Sometimes they are just given from one person to another as strangers, or one person to another as relatives.

For example.

Obito sending chakra from the land of the dead (the pure world) to Kakashi and suddenly Kakashi has a bloodline limit even without the magic eyeballs.
Naruto manifesting bloodline limits that the tail beast have even though he does not have the beast himself inside him anymore, just echos of their chakra the beasts gave him as gifts.
The whole Asura and Indra chakra reincarnating over time and space where the chakra reincarnates but not the souls themselves with Asura and Indra, and the chakra only reincarnates if the personality / temperament of the reincarnations are similar enough to Asura and Indra.
So on and so on.

Furthermore we have bloodline limit users that have a bloodline limit that is not seen for generations such as Kimimaro (bone guy) and Wood Release. Kimimaro as a child is locked up for he manifests the bloodline limit and the head of his clan feared this child and no one of Kimimaro generation of Kaguya had the power only the child had no one living of the Kaguya clan (it was a bloodline of myth.)

Likewise with wood release most of the wood release users we see are tied to the First Hokage and his DNA in some way with organ / dna grafting yet the same can not be said for Moegi Kazamatsuri (Konohamaru former girl teammate with orange pigtails that stand up. Part of team Ebisu.)

Now perhaps this is all a double recessive gene required to manifest these bloodline limits in a Mendelian Inheritance fashion. Perhaps but it is unlikely. The more likely thing is we can't just transfer over our real world rules of how the world works onto a fantasy world with magic and magic eyeballs.

Doing so is motivated reasoning, you are seeing patterns in the raw data that may not exist but you want them to exist..

1. Thats just high level Sharingan hax. Itachi has transferred stuff to Sasuke through pure magic before using the Sharingan, like a program before. he did when he died the first time.

2. that bijuu hax. you expect incredibly powerful pure chakra entities to work the same as they do humans? they're practically divine creatures of myth, and when divinities get involved metaphysics often enters an Air State where anything can happen. as opposed to the usual state of metaphysics when magic is involved which is a liquid state

3. the reincarnation involved the ghost of Sage of the six Paths- you know, one of the most hax beings in this entire franchise- empowering them with halves of his chakra. not exactly getting them from their own souls. the power of Hagoromo Ostusuki is not Indra or Asura. also kind of probably air state metaphysics going on here.

4. Kimimaro: there are such a thing as dormant genes and genetic traits skipping generations, it happens
Moegi: that is in Boruto, where people have figured out how to put every Jutsu onto a kote, and technology and knowledge have advanced significantly. it could simply be advancements in figuring out how to combine chakra natures using hand signs alone, and there is no reason why people wouldn't want to implant Moegi with hashirama cells if they had the technology, and Orochimaru is the one who figured it out and still alive to do it today, so he could've totally given Moegi some of that hashirama goodness. and Yamato (y'know the wood user that Orochimaru's experiments managed to be successful on?) is still alive in Boruto, so there is still a living sample of hashirama cells being used and can be harvested from to transfer to others.

I'm not denying there is wizards doing things, but there should be more nuance in what kind of doing is happening, and better measurement of how bull**** that "did it" is. quite simply I found this a good measurement:

Solid State metaphysics: real world physics, no change
Liquid State metaphysics: the world when magic is introduced, gaining less consistency but more flexibility, but still has rules it follows
Air State metaphysics: the magic goes high level and physics goes wonky not much consistency or rules involved
Plasma state metaphysics: too much magic, everything disintegrates or dies. nothing can survive at this level of magic.

we don't need resort to air state metaphysics assumptions when there liquid state metaphysics explanations. you don't need to resort to liquid state metaphysics explanations when we have a solid state metaphysics explanation, and a liquid state thing can still follow a solid state rule.

[Ramza00]

Why are you trying to force your level of hard magic or soft magic onto a story written who has not revealed his preference? Craving consistency and predictability **with how you define consistency and predictability** on a writter who has not announced this is an absurd endeavor.

You are trying to make your subjective perceptions and subjective logic into totalitarian essential universal and thus object rules. Well fiction does not work that way.

Magic can be many things the writer gets to choose.

[Lord Raziere]

Why are you trying to force your level of hard magic or soft magic onto a story written who has not revealed his preference? Craving consistency and predictability **with how you define consistency and predictability** on a writter who has not announced this is an absurd endeavor.

You are trying to make your subjective perceptions and subjective logic into totalitarian essential universal and thus object rules. Well fiction does not work that way.

Magic can be many things the writer gets to choose.

I'm not. why are your trying to force yours with "a wizard did it"? ninjas aren't wizards.

[khadgar567]

this is nuts as you guys acting like car with broken with breaks speeding down hill carrying nitroglycerinslow down will ya.

[Ramza00]

this is nuts as you guys acting like car with broken with breaks speeding down hill carrying nitroglycerinslow down will ya.

So in this metaphor, I am Deidara and Lord Raziere is Sasori, correct?

Art is a bang! 💥

[Kantaki]

I'm not. why are your trying to force yours with "a wizard did it"? ninjas aren't wizards.

Right. The guys who are flinging spells around like it's going out of style aren't wizards*.

If they walk like a duck and talk like a duck I'm calling a ninja a wizard.
Mage.
Caster.
Whatever.

*Okay, the sorcerer class might be a better way to represent them, but that's beside the point.

[Lord Raziere]

So in this metaphor, I am Deidara and Lord Raziere is Sasori, correct?

Art is a bang! 💥

eh it fits. I do have red hair after all, and I would rather be ageless than a bomb idiot.

@ Kantaki: that is a western biased term, sir. please stop forcing this western culture ideal of magic upon shows, especially anime ones. they're like the worst term for what they do. it makes them sound as if they're from harry potter, and I honestly? dislike harry potter. the anime is cooler than harry potter and deserves to be cooler than that. its like, the stupidest memetic idiocy to refer to all magic as wizards.

this is honestly why I hate memes. they are just mindless reductionism in joke form. now know what I am truly rebelling against in this world: memes. the greatest symbol of mindlessness and thoughtlessness this world has ever seen. maybe for once, a wizard didn't do it, huh, because wizards aren't a thing in that universe, perhaps wizards aren't even a word that means anything to them, perhaps referring to everything by lowest common denominator term you can think of should be taken out back and shot in the head like the lazy stupidity that it freaking is, and perhaps all memes should die, because they serve no freaking purpose and are just ignorance incarnate.

so screw your laziness and refer to them as freaking ninja and jutsu because thats what they're named as, if you don't care enough to be that lazy, then why are you even here? stop poisoning discussion with lazy thoughtless memes.

[Ramza00]

eh it fits. I do have red hair after all, and I would rather be ageless than a bomb idiot.

Hey Deidara is a bomb idiot that knows his Zen Buddhism. He shouts Katsu 喝 all the time after all.

Katsu 喝 means to shout or to yell. Buddhist teachers sometimes yell this at students much like in martial arts you may yell the similar sound Kiai when making an attack. (In Katsu the u is silent, note how to pronunce this symbol is very different in other asian languages such as Cantonese.)

The idea is that Katsu, to yell, to shout, may focus one's attention as an individual or as a teacher to a student one may yell it disrupt your attention when you are doing a bad logic. It is not supposed to be a pleasant sound, it by itself is not a road to enlightenment, but the proper timing it can be a corrective 💥. Art is a bang! Katsu 喝 !

Also Katsu is sometimes invoked in death poems, not poems that celebrate death but instead poems that show the transition between life and death and to emphasize that this transition occurs. Death poems often have a dark humor or a crashness to remind people that of the beauty of life, but also life is not eternal, this too shall pass and all that jazz.

Aka there is a reason why Deidara uses the Seal of Confrontation with his Katsu 喝 all the time, and not the partner Seal of Reconciliation to signify the fight / conflict has ended and peach has begun.

We speak highly of Madara and Hashirama, but not of the loudmouth bomb idiot. When in reality they were much alike.

[Lord Raziere]

Hey Deidara is a bomb idiot that knows his Zen Buddhism. He shouts Katsu 喝 all the time after all.

ah yes that thing that doesn't exist because the hypothetical people that believe in it believe they don't either. I only talk about people that exist, and aren't dreams because they believe in a hypothetical religion that thinks all including themselves is a dream.

sure is nice existing rather than being a hypothetical bomb idiot that doesn't and never did exist even in within their own fictional universe. I however respect even things that only hypothetically exist, like orcs, or buddhists. its their hypothetical culture after all, and if they don't want to say they exist, I will respect that if the situation ever comes up.

[Kantaki]

@Raziere: Well, excuse me for my culture influencing my terminology*.
Not going to look up new vocabulary past midnight...

But really, the word ninja seems to imply a certain degree of sneaky assassin-ness, while Naruto and friends (and foes) are... not.
Magic-users how ever you want to call them it the better description.
If you say ninja I'll punch my screen...

*Well, not really.
It's not like I'm typing in german after all.

[Traab]

I wonder if you could make for an interesting shounen where the ninja act like stealthy killers all the time? Could you manage to create an air of tension and drama as both enemies try to sneak up on the other while setting a trap in case they get snuck up on? Could we demonstrate a proper power creep for this sort of genre when the goal is to be silent and deadly? Where a single effective strike with no warning is the peak of skill? Like sure, flashy fireballs and lightning dragons are cool and awesome and neat, but watching a fight where you are never sure when the opponent will show up behind the character and slit their throat could cause for some epic fake outs and dramatic moments.

Picture it like this, we go back to the wave arc, the mist is natural. Suddenly with only an instants warning a massive zanbatou comes flying out of the mist. Kakashi makes everyone duck for cover, and silently motions the students to hide with the client. They look up at where the sword collided with the tree, but its already gone. Now the game of cat and mouse begins. Team seven has scattered so they can hide easier, nobody is sure who is alive, who is dead, or where the next attack will come from. Naruto is setting up trip wires and snares as quietly as possible along with noise makers for warning if the enemy approaches, sasuke is thinking he is hard enough to sneak up on the mystery killer, kakashi is trying to make sure he doesnt lose track of the killer so he can sneak past and murder the client and/or his students, and sakura is shaking in her little hiding spot, hoping tazuna doesnt make a peep and get them both killed. The tension is spooled up so high its unbearable, every shift of grass is a jump scare the people involved are desperately trying not to perform. Kakashi is thinking, "Is that zabuza hiding there? Or is it a trick? If its him I can kill him now, if im wrong I leave myself open, or even worse, my client/students." We hear a quiet gasp, a slicing sound, then silence again. Who was just killed? Is it over?

[Ramza00]

ah yes that thing that doesn't exist because the hypothetical people that believe in it believe they don't either. I only talk about people that exist, and aren't dreams because they believe in a hypothetical religion that thinks all including themselves is a dream.

sure is nice existing rather than being a hypothetical bomb idiot that doesn't and never did exist even in within their own fictional universe. I however respect even things that only hypothetically exist, like orcs, or buddhists. its their hypothetical culture after all, and if they don't want to say they exist, I will respect that if the situation ever comes up.

And you do not get my criticism.

There are layers of Canon.

Things that are stated flat out in the text. Diegetically^{to narrate} from a source that is impeachable.
Secondary Sources like databooks.
Things that are stated flat out in the text. Diegetically^{to narrate} from a source that may be trustworthy or may be not trustworthy.
Things that are stated flat out in the text. Diegetically^{to narrate} from a source that is unreliable.
References that do not impact the mechanics of the world.
The User filling in the blanks with things unsaid.

The bolded, italics thing is always theory and never "knowledge" as in "to know", you filling in the blanks is drawing assumptions. This is how the human brain works, we need pattern recognition to organize data, but when we use pattern recognition it is always an ambiguous state.



Is this a Rabbit or a Duck? Is it Rabbit Season or Duck Season?

-----

I have no problem with you having your theories, your fan canon inside your head. We all need fan canon to tell a story that is ambiguous. I do have a problem when you say this is the one true way, and the only way it would make sense, for in the theory of evolution, and using evolutionary principles magic is genetic and how these genes are passed down are like how all other phenotypes are passed down.

Sorry but that is fan canon, and my problem is not with you making it but being snide and saying this is the only way things can possibly work. That is you assuming the power of the storyteller when you are not. This is gatekeeping.

And it is not even good gatekeeping for you are kind of wrong on the details, Naruto plays fast and loose with the idea of what is genetic and what is not, and how genes influence phenotype.

[Kantaki]

Snip

That sounds awesome.
I totally would watch that version.

[Traab]

That sounds awesome.
I totally would watch that version.

Yeah as a stand alone it sounds awesome, im just not sure you could build a series around it. How many ways can the stealth battle be interesting before it gets repetitive? You might have to be willing to actually kill main characters sometimes just so the suspense is real.

[Aotrs Commander]

I can deflate that concept (for Naruto, at least) with but five words: Might Guy and Rock Lee.



I suppose you could just go all, Prnce of Tennis or whatever, and just go totally off the rails with it (note, I know of this only via clips and hearsay, I would never willing watch a sports program, real or fictional, not matter how silly).



Equestria Girls Friendship Games that I have literally just finished watching doesn't count, it's not a sports program, it's a human-pony-program that happens to vaguely involve competition at some point, hush.

[khadgar567]

So in this metaphor, I am Deidara and Lord Raziere is Sasori, correct?

Art is a bang! 💥

no you two are married couple in the wheels arguing something like cat herding while fighting over last piece of potato chip in the bag.

[Traab]

I can deflate that concept (for Naruto, at least) with but five words: Might Guy and Rock Lee.



I suppose you could just go all, Prnce of Tennis or whatever, and just go totally off the rails with it (note, I know of this only via clips and hearsay, I would never willing watch a sports program, real or fictional, not matter how silly).



Equestria Girls Friendship Games that I have literally just finished watching doesn't count, it's not a sports program, it's a human-pony-program that happens to vaguely involve competition at some point, hush.

Oh yeah, them. They... they didnt last long in the ninja program. I like to think that both washed out of training due to an inability to stfu, but rock lee might have been passed through due to the need to increase numbers in the years after the stealthy mountain sized 9 tailed fox snuck into konoha and leveled it. Quietly of course. /nod

[LaZodiac]

I do feel like you can reasonably call ninjutsu and genjutsu "ninja magic" if you really want. They're not wizards of course, but they do use an inner energy source to cast spell-like abilities.

[Aotrs Commander]

I literally made a Naruto ninja in 3.x by having a cleric reflavoured plus a two or three levels of monk.

(Were there likely more representative ways of making a Naruto ninja in D&D? Oh, certainly, but that wasn't the point.)

[Kantaki]

Yeah as a stand alone it sounds awesome, im just not sure you could build a series around it. How many ways can the stealth battle be interesting before it gets repetitive? You might have to be willing to actually kill main characters sometimes just so the suspense is real.

I mean, it's not as if regular Naruto is any less repetitive.

But, yeah. I guess the best way would be somewhere halfway.
So there are jutsu, but mostly stealth/illusion/misdirection ones.
With flashy techniques being a rare exemption.
Trump cards and last resorts, not the standard.
Well... unless you're Deidara.
Can't see him as anything not a crazy bomber.

Someone like Kakashi would probably be famous for pulling of ambushes despite the ludicrous flashiness of his chidori.
Same goes for Guy and Lee with enough physical power that they frankly don't need much in the way of tricks.

And of course... Naruto.
Although he actually is surprisingly stealthy all things considered...
Refuge in audacity for the win?
No, seriously, I would keep Naruto mostly as he is for a more stealth focused series.

[Lord Raziere]

see, my way of fixing Naruto wouldn't really be.....more stealth specifically by itself....it would be there, but that isn't the point.the concept of ninjas wielding magic is fine, its just that Naruto uses the magic all wrong for ninja purposes.

ignore chidori, look at Sasuke's great fireball technique. look all these big powerful destructive jutsu thrown around. why the heck would they have these techniques in the first place?

my elemental ninjutsu would have them do more with less. earth user? is someone who picks up a pebble and uses a jutsu to accelerate it to bullet speeds to snipe you. a water user is someone who drowns you with your own drink. an wind user is someone who just suffocates you. fire user is just the earth user but with a candle flame or a wind user with smoke. a lightning user can just kill you with an overcharged taser touch or metal wire, not this chidori nonsense.

just a bunch of assassination techniques that you need things like clone jutsu and replacement jutsu to defend against them or your just instantly dead. and that more destructive stuff is more for smoking you out of hiding or when minimalist assassination techniques fail.

and then there is unlimited yet unrealized potential of genjutsu. and not just for combat- but for a lot of things that are incredibly important for being a spy and such.

like think of espionage ninja flick as an anime. that the ninjas are irregulars and guerrilla style fighters and so on, because the way Traab describes stealth is boring, and doesn't capture how truly awesome it could be, think less "everyone is someone trying to sneak and stab someone else" and more "oh frack any ninja could potentially be a sniper without a gun, anything you hear, see, taste, or feel could be illusion to distract or fool you, oh frack are they filling the room with gas? GET OUT! *suddenly chokes, dies and poofs* OH FRACK THEY GOT A WIND USER, TAKE COVER! where is he captain!? I don't know, gotta smoke out, do something to get them out of hiding" y'know, ninjas meet vietnam war.

[Aotrs Commander]

Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto


Heeeere's Bleakbane!

(As if a concurrent Bleakbane plays wasn't enough to upset everyone with...!)

Where were we?

Oh yeah, that's right, a Sasuke who went from quite good to more insane than canon Sasuke more or less on the proverbial penny...



Leaving the Village

So, Sasuke konks out Izumu and Tetsuo as he leaves the village for power, because this Sasuke is completely bonkers.

Kakashi shows up and... Wow, goes down like a sack of wet potatoes. Really, Kakashi, you didn't think to take some genjutsu precautions...?

In the hospital, Sakura overhears the Third, Forth and Tsunade de-briefing Kakashi. Minato orders a lock-down, because the Uchiha really don't need this right now.

Oh crap. Sakura runs right off to...

...Apparently see Shikamaru, who calles the rest of the Twelve together.

Huh. That's... Really sensible, actually!

Nauto is of course off after Sasuke, and Shikamru decides to... Go with him on his own.

Really. The whole rest of the konoha twelve are there and you pair are going on your own?

*skullpalm*

So, off they go, sneaking out via Kiba's secret Akamaru-walking tunnel.

Minato waves off Kushina's concern Naruto is not home. Oh BOY is he going to regret that SO MUCH later. He is going to be on the couch for weeks.

Meanwhile FRACKING DANZO is of course sending Root ANBU to make sure Sasuke gets to Roachy and kill anyone trying to stop him. BECAUSE OF COURSE HE IS.

And... Um... If the hairstyles are not misleading, Yugao and Anko are Foundation?!

Uh... What...

The Not-ANBU, nevermind how close Naruto and Shika are actually getting, decide to murder them. Fortunately, Team Gai arrives, because Neji spotted them because Neji is frickin' awesome.

Shika pretty quickly figures these guys are aiming to kill, and thus can't be working for the hokage...



Pursuers

This episode brings us to the start of volume 35 of the DVD. Notable, because 38 should be the last. (Volume 37, out in about three days, actually, is up to all but the last 14 episodes). So the end is very much in sight!



We start out with Deidara blowing aload of sand nin up, to the annoyance of Hidan, Kakazu and Zetsu, since they wanted them intact... for reasons. Bickering ensues.

Meanwhile, Naruto yanks off the mask of the ANBU facing him and yes, it's Anko. (WHAT THE HELL, TSUNADE'S SUBCONSCIOUS! Anko would NEVER!)

Shikamaru grabs Naruto and yells at everyone to run. He says they shouldn't waste time on one-on-one fights. Hahahahahaha, shots fired, finally someone wised up and you're going to break this up into one-on-one fights like the last Sasuke retreival arc anyway, aren't you?

Yes, yes, you are. Lee is first, dropping back to tackle one of the sword wielders th... OH COME ON?! Hayate?! How... How does Tsunade even know he was sick? He died well before she came back!

Ah well, Lee goes fifth gate and... Cut to Naruto doing the tired "I'm gonna get you back Sasuke!" thing.

We briefly cut back to the Akastuki, now joined by Sasori, handing in the bodies. Hidan is still well-peeved at Deidara (and, to be fair, with good reason), but Sasori point out (via flashback) that Deidara throwing a fit of pique over that village mission and blowing up the "village" (so THAt was what happened!) and Yahiko allowed them to easily con Nagato and Konan with one of Minato's kunai into joining them. Because Nagato and Konan are FRACKING STUPID.

Akatsuki is trying to increase its military might, but Sasori doesn't know why. (Guess they ain't after the tailed beasts, so what they are up to is a mystery.)

Back at the chase, its now Tenten's turn to grab a massive long whip (... No, no, I'm just going to leave that one) and drag Yugao into a fight. Tenten isn't doing bad, considering she's up against a top Foundation ANBU and is only a chunin (hah, shows what Tsunande's subconscious thinks, don't it?) and she's only got a handful of scrolls, and Yugao slashes her penultimate one apart.

And then, using her last scroll, Tenten straight-up no-sell blocks Yugao launches her Moonlit Night attack - with a fracking frying pan!

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Oh Lichemaster, Tenten, you are the [expletiving] BEST, you really are!

Sasuke has almost reached Roachy, where he is likely to be eated.



Collision

Sasuke and Roachy are in a big tower, reached by a rope bridge. It's here that it becomes Neji's turn to be the delaying action against Anko and the other Root Anbu, who - crap, it's Sai! (Well, at least that makes SENSE.)

Whiel Sai flies overhead after Shikamaru and Naruto, Anko attacks Neji, from with the range of his eight trigrams, and the last we see is her getting the excrement kicked out of her, because she's fighting Neji Fracking Hyuga.

Shikamaru attempts to hold Sai with Shadow Possession, while Naruto legs it up toward the roof. Sai is like "this is nothing personal, just doing my. By the way, did you happen to look at the weather forecast, it's cloudly with a chance of rain."

Oh crapbaskets. No more shadow. Shikamaru is like, "well. [Excerement.]"

Up top, Orochimaru and Sasuke meet. Roachy is all "and what do you want?"

And Sasuke replies with "the power to hold the world in my fist." Actual quote, or as close to it as I can.

Wow. I mean. That... Wow. Dude is absolutely complete fracking bonkers, but I can almost respect that.

Naruto is interrupted by erstatz-Kimmimaro, only it's... Tenzo? What the what? That... Makes rather LESS sense, since Tenzo was Kakashi'd before the divergeance point, wasn't he?

Roachy bites Sasuke and gives him the curse mark...

Naruto just goes four-tails. Tenzo tries to hold him with the tailed-beats suppressing thing, but Naruto amps up to five tails and blasts through the jutsu - and Tenzo - like it was made of cheese, tells Kurama to get knotted, switches tailed mode off, and he's healed fully before he's up the stairs.

Sadly, Sasuke has already mastered the curse-seal in, like five minutes without going unconscious. For reasons.

Naruto tries his best to talk Sasuke down, but Sasuke is all, I'mma kill your face. So Naruto goes Sage mode. Sasuke dodges the punch and gets all cocky until the WIND from the impact smacks him around. Haha!

This doesn't last though since Naruto times out and Sasuke is still not listening to reason. They end up in a Kirin-verses-Rasanshuriken... Which itself ends with Sasuke putting his fist through Naruto's left lung. This doesn't really phaze Naruto (I mean, seriously, he's had worse) and he keeps on trying to talk Sasuke down, saying they are even more then same than in canon, and Naruto basically looked up to Sasuke and made him his rolemodel, blah blah blah.

Sasuke, is astonishingly self-entitledly going "why couldn't you stay weak! How dare you be good at stuff! I alone should be the most powerfullest!" the in most jaw-droppingly arrogant and a just... Impressive level of the terrible-twos.

Naruto finally says, "right, fine." He grabs some tailed power, just heals off the three-four inch hole in his chest in about two seconds (I said he'd be fine didn't I?) and then they do the whole rasangan verses chidori thing like they always do, which is kind of a come down from the previous, more powerful attack thing. They leap towards each other yelling, as per usual - *yawn* - this is so over-repeated that it and then Surprise Itachi Appears and Takes the Chidoi!

What the what!?

UNHOLY FRACKING CRAP!

I did not see that coming.

So, Itachi is like "be nice to my little brother Naruto" and then poofs into a cloud of light (what-the-what? again) and they continue their attacks because they are in mid-leap, but suddenly both are in fracking shock.

Cue a big ball of wierd crap that appears, Sasuke's headband gets scraped (Naruto chucked it at him just before the exchange) and then we see Sasuke standing over Naruto's body WHAT ARE YOU KIDDING ME HOW THE FRACK DID HE oh, right, he has manky-yoyo sharigarn now.

Nice job, Itachi, you made him stronger! You can never manage not to frack it up can you? You are SO BAD at this.

Oricimaru is like, "whelp, that was fun!" and we end with Sasuke stomping off into the woods.

This is wierd, I wonder where they're going with this, since we're post-timeskip, so...



Well, next episode looks like Pain's attack on the village, so its not hanging around.



The arc is back to being really good, aside from Sasuke's utterly insane alignment flip. This Sasuke is out-and-out unquestionably Evil, even by canonSasuke's low standards! - but it takes reuge in the sheer audacity of Sasuke's arrogance such that it's actually more watchable than mopey Sasuke. You can't quite beleive how bonkers it is, but that makes it sort of engaging.

[Kantaki]

True. Kitten-kicking Evil Sasuke is definitely more fun to watch.
But also even dumber.

I mean at least with Emo-Sasuke I can understand how- or at least why -he came to his scewed up conclusions*, even if I don't agree with them.

Kitten-kicker-Sasuke just comes off as a powerhungry fool who has no such excuses.


*At least until he outdoes himself towards the end.

[Aotrs Commander]

Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto



Back on this! Despite the ridiculously distraction of Stardew Valley.

(I mean, seriously, I bought it for £4 on sale as something that I might play for a couple of hours, or as a time killer when there wasn't enough time to play anything esle, I wasn't expecting it to become something I've played solidly virtually ever day...)

Another Moon

Naruto awakens where he lay,. with Shikamaru yelling at him. Naturally, he and Team Guy are fine with nary a scratch, because they are awesome. Naruto is peeved that they lost Sasuke, but the head back to the village.

Meanwhile, Minato, Tsunade and Shizune are surprised with Pain shows up an uses True Planetary destruction.

Naruto and co arrived, followed shortly by Sakura, who was out of trhe village, to find the village just... Gone. But it is inside a giant ball of rock, floating way above the village.

Inside, the ninja are trying to stop the walls compressing and crushing them all (oh snap, yeah, there's loads of Uchiha around still, bonus!) [Excrement] just got real though, as Kushina shows up in full ninja gear!

Buy hey, there's three kage level ninja still in the village! Minato wants to use a Four Crimson Ray Formation to help shiedl the village. It won't stop it, but it'll buy time. And hey, scratch that, kjage-level number four is Kushina, unholy crap!

(Puts those dunces who tried to break into Minato's house really into perspective, don't it?)

Outside, Sakura patches up Naruto, and then he engages Pain. He splotches through five of the six with hilarious ease, number five being dumb enough to try draining sage chakra (frog statue ahoy!) Sadly, this gives Major Pain Yahiko (you see what I did there?) chance to pin down Naruto's hands with a spikey thing.

Then SUPRISE HINATA ATTACK! because we're doing this again. (Apparently she was also out on a solo mission otuside the village and just appeared back at this moment.) Pain is a right [Richard] though, and doesn't even give her chance to finish her confession before splortching her. Naruto snaps and goes only six tails, and after only some moderate pummelling, Nagato-throughYahiko traps him in a smaller ball of rock.



Well, that episode dodn't hang about, did it!



Comrade

Minato gets and update via Ino (because you can stop minato's teleport, but ain't nothing gonna stop Ino Mother-fracking Yamanaka's telepathy, female canine) and that links in with everyone else.

Kushina feels Naruto losing it inside the barrier through her half of Kurama, and elects to sacrifice herself to give him all of her half of the nine tails.

Naruto is absolutely losing in inside his mindscape until Kushina Does A Mother Talk on him and calms him down. (He visibly eases up when she lets him sense everyone, including Hinata, who is already being healed by Sakura.) Kushia is about to make the sacrifice, but both halves of Kurama are watching this, and Naruto's bit is like "half. Half will do," the old softie, so Kushina doesn't have to die. (Bless this arc and it's lack of deaths, it's crapping awesome!)

Naruto kabooms staight out of the moon-doofer in full golden chakra cloak and just flies right through Alimighty Push, which uis hilarious. Then he's like "I ain't talking to the puppet," and yanks out the control rod, stabs it in himself - he felt the chakra pull earlier, when he got stabbed - and follows it nto Nagato. Talk no Jutsu happens, with Naruto saying all he wants right now is to get Sasuke back and become part of Team Jiriya, using basically the exact words Yahiko said to Nagato and Konan, which was he just wanted to become friends with everyone. (I mean, I'll give Yahiko credit in the version especially, dude was pretty chill.) So Nagato says Naruto can join Team Pervy Sage if he can get Sasuke back and trots off in whirl of paper, while the village settles neatly back ndown, not especially worse for wear.

Presumably some time later, Minato is talking to Fugaku on the top of the mountain. Minto is like, "totes good job dude, no casualties thanks to the Uchiha protectin' the civves," and Fugaku is like "I were just doin' me job." And this had made him have a change of heart, he realises he fracked up with Sasuke and just wants to see his sons again. He's genuinely touched by the efforts the village is making to find them and get them back. (Ooh, that's not going to end well.)

And we finish out the episode with Sasuke splortching Roachy (hahahahaha, that took no time at all, did it?) and then oming around in the akatsuki headquarters, where Sasori is offering him a chance to get back at the Leaf.

I mean, frack me, we're even going with the redemption for Fugaku here, this arc is crazy in the best way!



The Shinobi Unite

Tsunade summons the Konoha eleven up to the office. Minato is out of town holding a conference with the representatives of the other villagers, since Akatsuki (which Sasuke has been spotted with) has started moving openly, kidnapping people and generally doing bad stuff.

She unloads all the data they have on the Akatsuki and sends them all off to resuce Sasuke before the other villages get them.

Sasori, meanwhile, is explaining his plan to Sasuke. Sasori has had SOMETHING of a power-up this arc, since he has, like, hundreds of human puppets he's been working on from all the people he captured. But when he says "first we'll destroy the leaf, then conquer the qorld," Sasuke is like "nope, I've changed my mind again, I just want to get rid of the 4th Hokage, I'mma leavin'."

Pretty much as Naruto and co trip the perimeter sensors ans the Akatsuki go out to meet them - Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Kazuku and Zetsu. Oh snap!

But Itachi faked his death and isn't dead, appearing to Sasuke!

I mean, WUT.

Especially since it isn't genjutsu when he turns himself into crows, this Itachi can just do that for real, so maybe getting a chidori through his chest was that's why is body vanished like it was a ghost, well played Jiriya-lenses-through-Tsunade's subconscious. (They gave up reminding us of that ages ago and are more or less just treating this like an actual arc. Feel sorry for anyone picking it up in the middle here...1)

Team Ten lure Hidan off, Team Guy seperate Kazuku. Deidara starts off on Naruto, Sakura and Team Eight with a load of landmines, but SURPRISE SASUKE ATTACK and here's here to help because this Sasuke is completely nuts and changes his mind on the flick of a switch. I'd moan, but frankly this is all kind of awesome, so I don't care so much.

Team Eight - thanks to Kiba, actually, getting to shine for once, good for him - drag a urine-soaked angry Deidara off.

Zerti decides decretion is the better part of valour.

Sasori isn't worried though he's the end-level boss this time. Unconcerend as they smash his outer shell, true-form Sasori summons a load of puppet users using Reanimation that he had gotten out of Roachy while he was alive. Who then summon said metric ton of puppets.

But oops, SURPRISE WIND SCYTHE JUTSU because Temari is here with Minato, Kankorou, Gaara and like half the shinobi nations - leaving Sasori prime to team Seven. They leap up the top of the mountain and Sasori is still not worried, unveiling his iron sand guy. Sakura is like, "stand aside guys, I got this," - book, hundred hand seal kicks in - and when it iron-sands a giant block and tries to crush them, she just punches it right back and crushes it. Even Sasuke is visibly and audibly impressed!

Sasori now pulls out another nasty trick - the human puppets of A, Onoki and Mei. Oh SNAP! (Tsunade had actually mentioned Akasuki was kidnapping kage, but it never registered...)

Team Seven get their summons, and Sasuke, like a pillock charges in, only to have his summons one-shotted by Atomic Dismantling jutsu. (I freaking love that jutsu, it's so fricking ridiculous!) Fortunately, Itachi is there to save him from death at puppet-Mei's hands and is like "silly Sasuke being reckles again, get help from your team mates, silly boy. Neverlmind, I'll help you now!"

And just then, Jirayia poofs next to Naruto as he's standing on Gamabunta, bringing with him Konan and Nagato (who is looking AMAZINGLY healthly). They're like "oh, you got your mate back, now you're team Jiriya!" (I mean, Naruto didn't like... Do anything, Sasuke just turned up on his own, but whatever...)

Nagato no-sells puppet-Onoki's jutsu and then Naruto and Konan splortch him. Sasuke and Itachi splortch A and Mei.

Sasori flips his lid and sends out his hundred puppet army, only to find that ALL OF THE NINJA have sealed up his minions and come up to help, because he makes people into puppets and Naruto and his family make them into friends.

Naruto and Sasuke combines rasenshuriken and inferno style and well and truly splortch Sasori.

Some time later, Naruto is like "can we start over and be friends, Sasuke, come back to the Leaf," and Sasuke is like "okay."

Well, that was easy-

"But i'm not coming back to be your friend dun dun duuuuun!"

Oh, right, this Sasuke is BONKERS.



Again, this arc proves to be a delight, especially with the low body count (bless Tsunade's medic conscoience, clearly - seriously, this arc makes SO MUCH SENSE when you view it through her lens). It really is like proper, A grade fanfiction material here, only, like official and stuff. It's beautiful, it really is.

[Traab]

Is sasuke being tsundere here or something? "Its not like I LIKE you, b-baka!"

[LaZodiac]

Two new chapters!

Jigen appears, and Naruto and Sasuke have a beat-dad beatdown fight with him. Turns out Jigen is ****ing Ant-Man with a cursed seal powered by moon rabbit alien blood.

Naruto is a strange series.

[khadgar567]

Two new chapters!

Jigen appears, and Naruto and Sasuke have a beat-dad beatdown fight with him. Turns out Jigen is ****ing Ant-Man with a cursed seal powered by moon rabbit alien blood.

Naruto is a strange series.

well not gonna argue for jigen but you miss one point in previous chapter as sasuke found the second set of 9 bijui so modified body expension jutsu not feels like jigen is cheating but more like sasuke dont ready to spoil the news yet. like they need 9 new hosts to handle horned bijui series. which changes the math again.

[Aotrs Commander]

Bleakbane Catches Up With Naruto

Back again!

Rival

So, after last time's climatic battle, Naruto and Sasuke appear to have agreed to fight on top of the strange stone building that they fought on last time!

They fight and they fight and then Sasuke starts having flashbacks and begins monologuing.

"You saved a puppy! And that made me angry! Then you were better than me! And still an idiot! And then even more betterer than me! I'll kill you!"

Seriously, this Sasuke is completely, breaktakingly coo-coo.

So fighting happens, but honestly, it's kind of boring at this point, really. Watching them trade blows with no stakes is just... blah.

Anyway, they do the big attacks blow each other up thing, and then run up and punch each other in the face and fall over and Sasuke is like "I was jealous of you!" (Really, no excrement?) And Naruto is like "that's what friends are for!"

Um, no. No, Naruto that... That is totally not what friends are for.

But anyway, the day is saved and they all go back to Konoha and live happily ever after or something, bringing a close to this arc as the the show finally remembers this is Tsunade hallucinating Jiraiya writing a book.

Followed by her waking up hallucinating Jiraiya, followed by replacing him with Dan-as-Hokage (because dream, sense not required) and then Jiriya and Orochimaru with her little brother, the former giving him a dirty book and then cut to Tsunade in a tree.

Bit of a wet fart of an ending for this arc, but honestly, Bonkers!Sasuke was kind of amusing, and I can't fault everything else about it, it was like real-high quality fanfiction, it really was, only all official-like.

Heck, you could show someone not very familair with Naruto this arc as a sort of short version of the show and say "it's pretty much like this but longer," and it is different enough you wouldn't be spoilering it all that much for the main show. Good job, folks, good job.

Are we back to the main plot now...?



Birth and Death

Seems we are!

While Tobirama tries futilily to break someone - anyone - out of the cocoons, Team Seven appraises how screwed they are. Kakashi goes as far as suggesting, since he's the only one that can see out, Sasuke should lead them. Naruto protests, saying Sasuke can't possibly be better as strategising than Kakashi or Sakura - and in a moment of rare self-awareness, admits Sasuke IS probably better than him though!

We are treated to some short flashes of everyone else's dreams, which are all rather telling.

Hinata dreams - entirely predictably, of being on a bench cuddled up to Naruto, which Neji scolds Hanabi in the buishes for spying. (This is as much as the show is allowed to show, because you just know it gets so very very DIRTY after that...

Kiba dreams of becoming hokage, making a new holiday called dog-day and ordering everyone has to get a dog. And thus proving himself not onlt to be a tyrant of the highest order, but least capable hokage ever.

Shino's dream is finding a new species of beetle big enough to fly on, and laughs manically. Well, that's... Disturbing.

Chouji, bless 'im, simply dreams of having a girlfriend who is an excellent cook and thinks gluttons are sexy.

Shikamaru dreams of watching his parents hicker, and Asmua and Kuenai holding the baby and says "frack that marriage lark, it's too much effort," and Temari agreeing with him and they walk off in opposite directions. WOW, even in his dreams, Shika is lazy!

Ino, again predictably, dreams about Sasuke and Sai fighting over her, because of course she does.

Lee dreams with total predictability, of beating both Naruto and Neji simultaneously and getting glomped by Sakura.

Sai dreams that everyone think he has the nicest smile in Konoha. Wow, that's... Tragic.

Mei dreams of getting married to a bloke who must be like, 6' 6" nearly, because he's a lot taller than her, a Mei isn't the shorest lady around...

Kankuro dreams of making a new puppet WHICH IS A FREAKING GUNDAM! Woah, woah, woah, hold the damn show, show, I want to see THAT dream in full, please, unholy crap! The hell did we waste and episode on Karin when we could have had that, it would have been AMAZING! (Kunochi dig giant robots et al¹.)

Temari dreams that her two brothers are hopeless lost without her and need to fight for her attention. Ooookay...

And Gaara, most tragically of all, dreams of being a child, with his mum, dad and uncle and siblings, and child-Naruto coming around to play like a traditional family unit.

Ouch.

Oh, sorry, did I say back to the main plot? No, now Sasuke has a flashback to Itachi's life, since now, when everything is completely screwed over, is the time to to dig out Itachi's implanted memories...

So, we see Chibitachi at what, four, five, six or something, witnessing his first battle, trying to help a stone nin, who spots his ninja gear and tries to attack him and Itachi kills him without ever really looking. Iatchi wanders around the village after the war, after a confusing talk with Orochimaru and having a bit of an existential crises. This does not stop him beign stupidly badass, like jumping off the tallest cliff ever for no reason and decending via two kuni he just jams into the rock to slow his decen. Or when the Traditional Child Asshats throw rocks at him, he just absently dodges them and them finally - without looking - catches one and then does a flip and knocks all the others out of the air.

Sasuke is born, and Fugazu says "we'll raise him to bring honour to the Uchiha name" or somethingm which made me laugh hard. also, apparently Sarutobi's old man was called Sasuke, interesting.

Kushina shows up to mistake Sasuke for a girl (ahahahahahahahaha!) and then It's Kyubi Time.

Because this is an arc now, apparently.

Really? We get THIS instead of Gundam-Kankoro? There is no justice.



The Genius

Well, now I understand why it's suddenly Itachi catching the crustal-thing at the end of the titles instead of Sakura - I almost missed this last episode, sinc ei was only half-watching and was like "wait, what?"

So, we see the destruction wrought by the Nine Tails on the village. Itachi gets through without a scratch, and saves a little Uchiha girl... Oh no. This is the same girl (Izumi?) that showed up last episode trying to get Itachi to play with her, she's a dead girl walking, isn't she?

Then its off to the academy for Itachi, who continues to be the most OP six-year-old ever. He learns Fireball Jutsu by wataching Fugku do it once - WITHOUT THE SHARINGARN, trviially wins spars and target practise, effortlessly beats up bullies, making his formerly jealous rivals instantly into fanboys as easily as all the girls are busty fangirling him. Okay, fair, this IS kind of hilarious, but sadly, the show keeps trying to be deep rambling on about "life and then death." Sasuke also manages to convince his dad to learn Shadow Clone, and this is discovered when the bullies return enmasse and three of them finally grab him because he stood still when the teachers said "oi, stop it!" while Real-Chibitachi is off doing kunai practise and chatting to genin? Shisui.

And now he's graduating after only a year of academy.



Bleh. When the high-point of the trio of episodes's is Kankoro's fantasy, it says something. As usual, when the show tries to be deep, clever and philosphical, it instead becomes plodding, dull and repetative. Seriously, it should kind of stick to wacky humour and high-octance fights and just rush through the other stuff, since if it did that, it maight actually get that to a tolerable pace instead of intermidably slow. This is why these are such compartiively short write-ups - there's just not a lot to say.

Eh. Looks like we might have a few more episodes of Chibitachi, but whatever; next episode might be more fun, it has Chibitahci wearing cat ears.

Not bad for a dead guy, huh?



Seriously, though, take that basically every other show; if Naruto understands one thing, it is how to show death isn't the end of people's impacts; we're getting a damned multi-episode arc on a character who is twice-dead! I can give the show a LOT of flack for a lot of things, but the way it handle character death is NOT among them. Naruto gets that RIGHT in a way that I never seen anything else do it.




¹Look, my knowledge of Gundam ends at pretty much a couple of Funny Internet Reviewers reviews, that one Gundam Abridged Linkara and Team Four Star did, so you'll have to insert your own Gundamn jokes, Megas XLR is the best I can do...