Most Ridiculous Rules in RPGS

[Cluedrew]

Well-played.

And the closest that debate has been to productive in about 4 pages.

It seems ridiculous to think that the passive opposition would just "go away" if you try to actively oppose as well, unless the active opposition were something that made the passive opposition no longer relevant.

Well we are in a thread about ridiculous rules...

[Bohandas]

If someone knows how to hide, they can do it anywhere.

US Army sniping school is not about learning how to shoot.

It is learning how to not be spotted.

The skills used for not being noticed outside are not the same as those needed to not be noticed in a crowd, but both can be learned, and taught.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTQYEkIvN2M#t=00m08s

[Knitifine]

Dragon can fly in antimagic fields.
Non-earth elementals can be wounded by conventional weapons.
Vancian magic.

[Lacuna Caster]

Well-played.

I dunno. I'm definitely reading some wounds...

On the subject of Vanceian casting:

It's also worth noting that super-individuals are more a factor of the leveling system than hitpoints themselves. So the complaint is somewhat misplaced. Especially in later editions of D&D, where HP bloat is a lesser factor to character invincibility than rampant spell use.

Yeah, that too. And yes, you're absolutely right about the feats/flaws/traits/class features/etc. pileup. A game-breaking optimiser's playground, it was.

It is completely justifiable, and I am the one who brought it up. There are all sorts of thematic and mechanical reasons to justify it. There are also some counter arguments. I bring it up as an odd, to use your word, not because it doesn't make sense but because it goes against the standard for games. Same thing with the character creation system, it involves no decisions or randomness so all starting characters are identical.

*shrugs* I'm not arguing. I do remember playing a short one-off game with similarly condensed rules where all characters start off as clones with something like asimov's three laws, only the contents are hidden and have to be invented during play? It's not the same game, is it?

[Quertus]

Dragon can fly in antimagic fields.
Non-earth elementals can be wounded by conventional weapons.
Vancian magic.

I dunno - I mean, my breath seems to need to regenerate after I charge, summing pools need to be refilled after people trample them, and I put out my fire by stabbing it with a sword, doesn't everyone? The elements all respond to violence.

If you're gonna call out dragons (odd that no-one has before), don't forget to call out bumble bees, too.

[Hamste]

If you're gonna call out dragons (odd that no-one has before), don't forget to call out bumble bees, too.

How bees fly has not been a mystery for over 10 years at this point. No clue on how dragons fly, probably the same reason why giant insects don't collapse in d&d.

[Theoboldi]

How bees fly has not been a mystery for over 10 years at this point. No clue on how dragons fly, probably the same reason why giant insects don't collapse in d&d.

So, uh, how do they do it? Come on, dude. At least spread the knowledge if you've got it.

[Max_Killjoy]

How bees fly has not been a mystery for over 10 years at this point.

Frankly, the entire "bees shouldn't be able to fly!" thing was largely a garbage pop-culture canard from the start.


http://www.snopes.com/science/bumblebees.asp

[Hamste]

So, uh, how do they do it? Come on, dude. At least spread the knowledge if you've got it.

Here is one of the links.

http://www.livescience.com/528-scien...-bees-fly.html

And the link to the abstract of the person who did it.

http://m.pnas.org/content/102/50/18213

Basically, the idea is bees just flutter their wings extremely fast and use a weird down-up stroke method to fly as opposed to the more normal method that most birds use

[Flickerdart]

I dunno. I'm definitely reading some wounds...

Sadly, wounds don't affect the effectiveness of the debate.

[Kurald Galain]

Dragon can fly in antimagic fields.

Square-cube law doesn't seem to hold in quite a lot of fictional universes. That's ok though, it took us IRL several centuries to figure it out, so it's not ridiculous per se to have huge flying creatures. Mythology is rife with rocs, flying horses, and so forth.

[Bohandas]

*shrugs* I'm not arguing. I do remember playing a short one-off game with similarly condensed rules where all characters start off as clones with something like asimov's three laws, only the contents are hidden and have to be invented during play? It's not the same game, is it?

You may be thinking of the game Paranoia. It doesn't 100% maych your description but it has clones and secret rules.

[Arctanaar]

If you're gonna call out dragons (odd that no-one has before), don't forget to call out bumble bees, too.

Why should one call out bumblebees, again?

Edit: nevermind, didn't notice other people pointing the problem out.

[Kurald Galain]

*shrugs* I'm not arguing. I do remember playing a short one-off game with similarly condensed rules where all characters start off as clones with something like asimov's three laws, only the contents are hidden and have to be invented during play? It's not the same game, is it?

Yes. The three laws are (1) Stay Alert! (2) Trust Noone! (3) Keep Your Laser Handy. (4) Praise The Computer, The Computer Is Your Friend. (5) Insinuations that The Computer cannot count are treason. (6) This law is above your security clearance.

[Lacuna Caster]

Yes. The three laws are (1) Stay Alert! (2) Trust Noone! (3) Keep Your Laser Handy. (4) Praise The Computer, The Computer Is Your Friend. (5) Insinuations that The Computer cannot count are treason. (6) This law is above your security clearance.

That's hilarious... but I don't think it was paranoia. Like Cluedrew described it, all the rules fit on an index card and we didn't have an explicit mission or personal agendas. It was more a 'what are 3 things that clones can do?' question, and you'd invent answers during the session. (I think I might have been the one who wound up inserting Asimov.)

[Tough Butter]

In GURPS supers, having super speed does not increase the amount of attacks you can do per round, nor the force of the attack.

Also a turn in GURPS is one second long. I don't play with that rule. Turns in my games are 6 seconds long.

[Arbane]

In GURPS supers, having super speed does not increase the amount of attacks you can do per round, nor the force of the attack.

Most superhero games do it like that, to keep superspeedsters form insta-winning all fights.

Also a turn in GURPS is one second long. I don't play with that rule. Turns in my games are 6 seconds long.

This isn't the "most ridiculous houserules" thread. (It takes six seconds to fire a pistol once?)

Oh, on that note, AD&D combat turns being a minute long. This kinda works for melee combat (which is presumed to involve a LOT of attacks, most of which don't connect), but starts looking extremely weird when you consider archery. Those elves must REALLY take their time aiming...

[Max_Killjoy]

Most superhero games do it like that, to keep superspeedsters form insta-winning all fights.

Indeed -- in HERO/Champions, you'd need to spend points separately for the movement velocity, the actual actions SPEED characteristic, and the extra hitting power.

This isn't the "most ridiculous houserules" thread. (It takes six seconds to fire a pistol once?)

Oh, on that note, AD&D combat turns being a minute long. This kinda works for melee combat (which is presumed to involve a LOT of attacks, most of which don't connect), but starts looking extremely weird when you consider archery. Those elves must REALLY take their time aiming...

I find it ridiculous even for melee combat.

[Segev]

On a completely different track, points-based systems often have badly-designed point-exploders. Sometimes even when they're trying hard not to.

In BESM 3e, the Companion attribute gets you a number of minions that get 100 CP+10 per CP of your own you spend "per level" of the attribute...and you get a quadratically increasing number of minions with each level. Now, they have to be identical, but that's a huge point-explosion.

You can combine this with the ability to have powers that you can only grant to other people. Which would then allow you to have your point-exploded Companions grant you powers that their CP bought.


It's more cheese, I suppose, than "ridiculous rules," but it is a kind-of ridiculous interaction.

[Quertus]

3e D&D Savage Species had rules for playing a level 1 baby ogre or baby troll, which is fine. But it also has rules for playing a baby Illithid... when those are "born" full-grown.

In GURPS supers, having super speed does not increase the amount of attacks you can do per round, nor the force of the attack.

I don't know about GURPS, but Mutants & Masterminds doesn't even have an option for extra attacks. So, when you compare their superhero speedster to characters from other systems that do have mechanics for multiple attacks, they feel positively... slow.

Also a turn in GURPS is one second long. I don't play with that rule. Turns in my games are 6 seconds long.

Oh, on that note, AD&D combat turns being a minute long. This kinda works for melee combat (which is presumed to involve a LOT of attacks, most of which don't connect), but starts looking extremely weird when you consider archery. Those elves must REALLY take their time aiming...

I remember test firing bows, sling shots, darts, heck, even pistols & rifles, just to try to get a handle on the rate of fire mechanics in D&D & other RPGs.

[Friv]

On a completely different track, points-based systems often have badly-designed point-exploders. Sometimes even when they're trying hard not to.

In BESM 3e, the Companion attribute gets you a number of minions that get 100 CP+10 per CP of your own you spend "per level" of the attribute...and you get a quadratically increasing number of minions with each level. Now, they have to be identical, but that's a huge point-explosion.

You can combine this with the ability to have powers that you can only grant to other people. Which would then allow you to have your point-exploded Companions grant you powers that their CP bought.


It's more cheese, I suppose, than "ridiculous rules," but it is a kind-of ridiculous interaction.

I think my favorite version of that is the Angel Summoner, a PL10 Mutants & Masterminds character. As a standard action, he can summon 250,000 angels, each of which is fanatically loyal, heroic, and can act with minimal direction. Each angel technically has its own character sheet and powers. Also they all have 180 CP, more than a player character, and the angels can have ranged protection powers to keep the summoner safe.

This costs 100 of the Angel Summoner's 150 CP, so he has another 50 CP for Abilities, Skills, and personal defenses.

[The Glyphstone]

I think my favorite version of that is the Angel Summoner, a PL10 Mutants & Masterminds character. As a standard action, he can summon 250,000 angels, each of which is fanatically loyal, heroic, and can act with minimal direction. Each angel technically has its own character sheet and powers. Also they all have 180 CP, more than a player character, and the angels can have ranged protection powers to keep the summoner safe.

This costs 100 of the Angel Summoner's 150 CP, so he has another 50 CP for Abilities, Skills, and personal defenses.

Did someone also make M&M stats for BMX Bandit?

[Batou1976]

I seem to remember FATAL being mentioned way back in the antiquity of this thread. That game is kinda low-hanging fruit for this topic, but anyway... I don't think there's a single rule in that misbegotten frog-bortion of a game that isn't ridiculous. Can't be 100% sure, though, since I just wasn't able to read more than maybe 10 pages of it before my INT and WIS were both damaged down to 0.

Then there's World of Synnibar- you don't simply pick what class you're going to play. Instead, after generating ability scores, you roll 3 times to determine which 3 classes you can choose from. Since most of them have (usually fairly stiff) ability score requirements, it is entirely possible to not qualify for any of those 3.

[Jormengand]

I seem to remember FATAL being mentioned way back in the antiquity of this thread. That game is kinda low-hanging fruit for this topic, but anyway... I don't think there's a single rule in that misbegotten frog-bortion of a game that isn't ridiculous. Can't be 100% sure, though, since I just wasn't able to read more than maybe 10 pages of it before my INT and WIS were both damaged down to 0.

To put this into perspective, earlier in this thread, Racial Holy War was discussed. You can guess what it's about from the title. I managed not only to read the whole thing, but salvage the workable game elements into a system that actually does something.

I tried to do the same with FATAL. The game floored me after the first few pages. Maybe, maybe it's technically possible to salvage bits of it. I don't know.

[jindra34]

I just realized that the Underwater enhancement from GURPS 4e fits here: Namely it says that an ATTACK without it (bought as an advantage at least) CAN'T function underwater. Poke of Doom? Nope. Purely mental onslaught? Nope. Tearing apart the universe at its seems? NOPE!

[Quertus]

I think my favorite version of that is the Angel Summoner, a PL10 Mutants & Masterminds character. As a standard action, he can summon 250,000 angels, each of which is fanatically loyal, heroic, and can act with minimal direction. Each angel technically has its own character sheet and powers. Also they all have 180 CP, more than a player character, and the angels can have ranged protection powers to keep the summoner safe.

This costs 100 of the Angel Summoner's 150 CP, so he has another 50 CP for Abilities, Skills, and personal defenses.

As I remember the edition of M&M I own, that build fails several times over.

First, at PL 10, you can only have a rank 10 power. Summoning a 180-or angel is a rank 12 power (unless said angel has a power above rank 12, in which case it is a rank x power, where x is the rank of the angel's highest ranked power).

Second, you may only take the advantage which lets you summon multiple creatures a number of times equal to your power level. Summoning 250,000 creatures would require taking it 16 times.

So, at best, a PL 10 character should only be able to summon 2,500 150-point heroic fanatic angels as a free action. Totally different.

EDIT: my minion maximization build in that system involved having my character self-duplicate, then each of the (using PL 10) 2,500 copies would summon 2,500 creatures (for 6,250,000 summoned creatures).

[Batou1976]

I tried to do the same with FATAL. The game floored me after the first few pages. Maybe, maybe it's technically possible to salvage bits of it. I don't know.

Perhaps.... but why would you want to? Seems like a lot of work that's akin to harvesting undigested peanuts out of the toilet.

[Jormengand]

Perhaps.... but why would you want to?

I've actually started attempting this monster project once more, and it's... not as bad as you'd think. Like, it has things like the author understanding (roughly; the explanation isn't perfect) the difference between gender and sex; he has a good enough understanding of what a role-playing game actually is too. The gender differences aren't as egregious as I've heard them described (if you want to play a spellcaster, you might actually be better off as female) and all of the age and gender differences are backed up with references that you could at least be forgiven for thinking were legitimate, because I'm still not certain they aren't. It's not great, but it's not as bad as you might think. Sure, there are stupid things like Anakim having a 1% chance to have a trait which causes them to try to kill themselves if they look at a mirror, but most of it's not that terrible.

Then again, this is coming from the person who turned RaHoWa into a playable system, so take it for what it is.

[Knitifine]

Square-cube law doesn't seem to hold in quite a lot of fictional universes. That's ok though, it took us IRL several centuries to figure it out, so it's not ridiculous per se to have huge flying creatures. Mythology is rife with rocs, flying horses, and so forth.

The square cube law is why dragon's shouldn't be able to move. The laws of aerodynamics are why they shouldn't be able to fly.

[Kurald Galain]

The square cube law is why dragon's shouldn't be able to move. The laws of aerodynamics are why they shouldn't be able to fly.

Aerodynamics doesn't seem to hold in quite a lot of fictional universes. That's ok though, it took us IRL several centuries to figure it out, so it's not ridiculous per se to have huge flying creatures. Mythology is rife with rocs, flying horses, and so forth.