Class and Level Geekery II

[Kish]

I've just skimmed through these stats so forgive me if i repeted something already said but in case no ones noticed yet in comic #2 elan says "skill points i love my six new skill points" bards get 6+int mod skill points

...per level, not per edition conversion. He didn't gain a level there.

[Runolfr]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html - Sabine has sufficient strength to carry both Thog and Nale at the same time.

I'm not sure how to translate that into a Strength score.

If she can fly with a heavy load, her strength might have to be 20 or more. That seems pretty high for what we've seen her do in combat.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm not sure how to translate that into a Strength score.

As RMS explained, "Even if they were the minimum weights for their respective races, that adds up to 270 pounds, which requires a strength of 18 to carry as a heavy load."

That would give her +4 to hit and to damage. Given that she doesn't use a weapon, this seems pretty consistent with her combat abilities, like being able to trounce Haley and being able to stand up against our fine fighter friend (although she obviously has a worse BAB, AC and hit points than Roy does).

[Chronos]

...and being able to stand up against our fine fighter friend

She was only able to do that with the aid of Pompey's buff spells, which probably added somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 more strength and dexterity and a +2 deflection bonus to AC, among other effects (we don't know exactly what buff spells he cast on her, but Bear's Strength, Cat's Grace, and Protection from Good are likely guesses). Once the buffs wore off, though, Roy was able to clobber her.

Then again, Roy probably also has in the neighborhood of a +4 strength bonus, plus the enhancement bonus on his sword, plus Weapon Focus and Specialization, plus Power Attack, plus whatever the heck that green glow is... Even with buffs, Sabine likely does need pretty good base stats to give him a good fight.

[Gitman00]

Xykon's Charisma still needs updating. He'd need at least a 28 to cast seven 9th-level spells in one day.

[Fitzclowningham]

Xykon's Charisma still needs updating. He'd need at least a 28 to cast seven 9th-level spells in one day.

Unless he's higher than lvl 20. And depending on magic items--he should have a few by now.

I was keeping count the first time I read it. The Soul Bind at the end made me whistle. Then, I thought to myself, "oh jeez, Roy's f*cked."

[Megatron]

They've gained three levels, in fact. One in the "up a level, down a level" episode in the middle of Dorukan's dungeon. One in the "ding" episode at the end of it. And one during the Return of the Linear Guild plot.

Oh wow... yeah I forgot about the up/down part... so that and "Ding" make two, but they actually gained a level at the return of the linear guild? I know Elan said "XP for everyone!" but I didn't take that to imply another level gain.

[Kurald Galain]

I know Elan said "XP for everyone!" but I didn't take that to imply another level gain.

Elan took a level in Dashing Swordsman, which he couldn't have done unless he, you know, gained a level. That the others also gained a level is an assumption from that, but note that V's mightiest spell used to be disintegrate (6th level) whereas in the siege battle xe is clearly 13th level, thus allowing xim to cast 7th-level spells.

[Kimpire]

Long-time lurker here.

I want to weigh in on the Haley Is Good/Neutral debate, even though it's been at rest for some time...

In past discussions on the topic Haley's rescuing of her father was brought up several times - and, while I agree that that is essentially a Neutral act because, well, he's her *father*, so it doesn't prove anything either way, I'd like to call attention to this quote from On The Origin of PC's, which so far as I can recall hasn't yet been brought up:

"But as of right now, I promise: I am going to save your life or die trying, Daddy.

I think, in the end, you'll find that a 10% cut of your future income in perpetuity is a small price to pay."

The quote's a bit telling, no? It pretty much establishes that Haley isn't rescuing her father entirely out of the goodness of her familial relationship. Anybody who would only save a family member in return for monetary reward can't be Good-aligned, I always say. (Yup, always. Have said so for years. Sure. Right. Ask anyone what Daniel always says, and they'll tell you that.)

Anyway, the only reason I waited so long to weigh in on it was because things from the background books had been discussed before in this thread and eliminated as sources because of non-canonicity - but after Belkar's cooking crossed over from the even-more-non-canon Dragon Magazine comics and after Start of Darkness triggered a rush of Xykon-related information I figured this would now have to be taken into account.

[Gitman00]

Unless he's higher than lvl 20. And depending on magic items--he should have a few by now.

I was keeping count the first time I read it. The Soul Bind at the end made me whistle. Then, I thought to myself, "oh jeez, Roy's f*cked."

Actually, sorcerers stop gaining spell slots at level 20 (not counting epic spells), so he'd still only have six. And magic items are usually figured into a character's ability scores, so I stand by my estimate of 28+ Charisma.

[Wrecan]

It pretty much establishes that Haley isn't rescuing her father entirely out of the goodness of her familial relationship. Anybody who would only save a family member in return for monetary reward can't be Good-aligned, I always say.

Your two sentences don't follow.

Just because Haley is partly motivated by money doesn't mean she is "only" motivated by money.

Origin of the PCs shows that Haley deeply cares for her father. Besides, the 10% cut is probably not even going to make up for the ransom she has to pay. At most, she's trying to recoup her losses. (And she's likely joking. If Mr. Starshine is anything like her daughter, he's not going to be giving up a cut of his future earnings lightly.)

At any rate, even if Haley's motivations in rescuing her dad are entirely neutral (she's only doing it as an investment, which is really hard to believe), so what? One neutral act doesn't make you neutral.

None of this is strong enough to contradict her own statement that she is chaotic good-ish. Which, combined with her reaction to the goblin priest's Unholy Blight, is a strong indication she is CG with neutral tendencies.

[Porthos]

None of this is strong enough to contradict her own statement that she is chaotic good-ish. Which, combined with her reaction to the goblin priest's Unholy Blight, is a strong indication she is CG with neutral tendencies.

IMO, Haley has been sliding toward CG as the comic has worn on. Compare her actions lately to her actions at the beginning of the comic. It's a bit subtle, but she feels a heck of a lot more CG now than she ever did at the beginning of the comic.

I think Elan's a good influence on her. Either that, or losing her voice provided to be a life changing experience for her.

Anyway, my evidence for her sliding to CG and away from CN. She hasn't done anything that could be called selfish in a long time. Not only is she risking her neck to save her friend (Roy), but when she saw someone in trouble that she barely knew (O-Chul), she immediately tried to rescue him. When Belkar tossed him aside, she was absolutely disgusted with what Belkar did. She passed up valuable loot on the ground (Eye of Fear and Flame) and concentrated on getting Belkar out of a sticky situation.

Rather than take as many people with her as possible to get Roy's body, she tried to go alone because she didn't want to risk other people getting hurt. She convinced Hinjo that fleeing the city for now, and returning later, would be a far better act than needlessly throwing his life away. She also didn't want to initially attack the CitD, as she thought it was a child of some sort.

Was she Chaotic "Good-ish" in the past? Absolutely. But, much like Vaarsuvius has been sliding as the comic has gone on (becoming less good and more neutral), so has Haley. IMO, at least.

[Iranon]

If I recall correctly, it was phrased 'Chaotic Good. Ish.' which seems to indicate her alignment is truly CG ('Good-ish' could refer to both CG or CN).

The Unholy Blight scene does not really help in my opinion. Vaarsuvius was affected as much as Elan and Roy.
V's alignment was jokingly revealed as 'Arrogant Neutral' in an aside, and conduct so far indicated that s/h/it tends more towards Evil than Good.

[RAGE KING!]

can somebody make a mitd entry in one of the first few posts and add this link to it plz.

[Dunamin]

I would suggest adding Lien and O-chul to the list under the Sapphire Guard section, at least if they survive the current story arc (which seems to almost be at an end).

To start off with, it would seem that O-chul has an impressive Con score (being the toughest of the Sapphire Guard, according to Hinjo), and that Lien is at least 6th level (to have a Large shark as a special mount). Note by the way, that it is not technically a celestial shark, if derived by the core list in DMG on p204-205.

[Kimpire]

My point is not that Haley's rescuing her father for monetary reward is a Neutral act - but rather that it is most decidedly a *non-good* act. Nobody Good-aligned can justify taking a monetary reward for rescuing a family member, no matter how much of a reason that is, unless there are serious issues between them.

[PsyBlade]

She might have been joking on the money thing.

[Wrecan]

My point is not that Haley's rescuing her father for monetary reward is a Neutral act

Oh, come on. It's a joke! In a jokey comic!! At any rate, why is it so wrong to want her father to reimburse her for the ransom she's going to pay to get him released?

It's one thing if Haley were to plan to break into jail and rescue him, but she's not. She's planning to risk her life adventuring to earn enough money to pay the ransom and get her dad back.

Nobody Good-aligned can justify taking a monetary reward

At no point did she indicate she would be getting a reward for ransoming her dad. on the contrary, she's going to be paying out hundreds of thousands of gold pieces.

You are really underanalyzing what she said.

[PaladinFreak]

V's alignment was jokingly revealed as 'Arrogant Neutral' in an aside, and conduct so far indicated that s/h/it tends more towards Evil than Good.

Where on earth to you get that? I have seen no indication whatsoever that V is evil, and plenty that V is good. For example, Here V is helping against overwhelming odds, when V could easily have traded sides and had a much better chance of surviving. Sure, V ran away afterwords, but that was when V was out of spells, and at low hit points. I think that is a demonstration of Neutrality more that anything else.

[Kurald Galain]

Note by the way, that it is not technically a celestial shark, if derived by the core list in DMG on p204-205.

Here's a theory: all celestial creatures in OOTS have halos (and all fiendish creatures have horns, except possibly for those roaches but it's hard to tell at this resolution) That means that neither Windstriker nor Argent nor Razor are celestial. Maybe?


Aside from that, I believe that this strip indicates that Miko has the power attack feat. She specifically attempts to "attack with more power"; I don't think that rules-wise that is possible in any other fashion.

[Dunamin]

Here's a theory: all celestial creatures in OOTS have halos (and all fiendish creatures have horns, except possibly for those roaches but it's hard to tell at this resolution) That means that neither Windstriker nor Argent nor Razor are celestial. Maybe?

Blue colouration also seems to predominate amongst celestial creatures.

Aside from that, I believe that this strip indicates that Miko has the power attack feat. She specifically attempts to "attack with more power"; I don't think that rules-wise that is possible in any other fashion.

I agree, and had actually expected it to be on Miko's feat list already.

[mockingbyrd7]

can somebody make a mitd entry in one of the first few posts and add this link to it plz.

Nice list. I second the motion.

[Iranon]

Where on earth to you get that? I have seen no indication whatsoever that V is evil, and plenty that V is good. For example, Here V is helping against overwhelming odds, when V could easily have traded sides and had a much better chance of surviving. Sure, V ran away afterwords, but that was when V was out of spells, and at low hit points. I think that is a demonstration of Neutrality more that anything else.

V is extremely quick to use magical violence, and takes considerable pleasure in it. S/h/it seemed unfazed at the prospect of killing party members for xp. At the end of the lizard incident, V made very real death threats to the rest of the Order. The indifference to the dirt farmers. The casual way of suggesting execution and soul binding of the Linear Guild.

The example you gave makes little sense; it's not dubious the hobos would even have let V change sides, much less whether they would have let s/h/it alive afterwards... and there's the whole end-of-the-world threat if Xykon succeeds.

[Chrismith]

Aside from that, I believe that this strip indicates that Miko has the power attack feat. She specifically attempts to "attack with more power"; I don't think that rules-wise that is possible in any other fashion.

I also agree, and further, I would like to point out Episode 461 as evidence that she also has Cleave.

[Dunamin]

...S/h/it seemed unfazed at the prospect of killing party members for xp...

The example you gave makes little sense; it's not dubious the hobos would even have let V change sides, much less whether they would have let s/h/it alive afterwards...

V is really a spellcasting verbose walking pile of poop? That would explain the genderlessness (inventing words are fun).

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

[RAGE KING!]

Nice list. I second the motion.

Thank you, nobody else likes the idea apparently.

[Chronos]

Well, even if Start of Darkness doesn't count, we now have online confirmation that Redcloak has the Destruction domain, since he can cast Disintegrate.

[anyone]

We can say ot of comic 480, that Hinjo has some ranks in Jump. I don't think he was planig to jump in the water and it were about 25 feet (dc 25). He jumpt from a higher postition, wich might give him a +5 bonus, but Hinjo semms to wear medium armor, which reduces his speed and gives him a -6 penalty, an an armor chek penalty of about -3 (assuming masterwork breasplate), so after all, the dc would be 29. With a str. of +3 he should have last 10 ranks in jump to have a chance to make it.

[Kurald Galain]

More geekery:

Haley has ranks in Sense Motive, meaning at least two.

[Amon Star]

In today's comic said that his home was destroyed 35 years ago. Now, I don't know exactly how long Goblins live, but I say that would make him at least Middle Aged.