Class and Level Geekery II

[Sir_Norbert]

In today's comic said that his home was destroyed 35 years ago. Now, I don't know exactly how long Goblins live, but I say that would make him at least Middle Aged.

We already know from SoD that he is 51, though I forget the exact chain of deduction.

[Wrecan]

More geekery:

Haley has ranks in Sense Motive, meaning at least two.

Good catch!

[Chrismith]

We already know from SoD that he is 51, though I forget the exact chain of deduction.

SoD spoiler:

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While I don't remember Redcloak's exact age, it's important to remember that he ages extremely slowly because of the Crimson Mantle. During SoD, we see RC's younger brother go from child to middle-aged while Redcloak's appearance remains the same.

[BobTheDog]

From #480 we can now define one of Redcloak's domains as Destruction. Also, unless I'm forgetting some old strip, he hasn't cast 8th level spells, and with his 3 lvl-7 spells he cast during the battle (Summon Monster VII, Destruction, Disintegrate), I'd say there's a good chance he's lvl 14.

[Quikngruvn]

From #480 we can now define one of Redcloak's domains as Destruction. Also, unless I'm forgetting some old strip, he hasn't cast 8th level spells, and with his 3 lvl-7 spells he cast during the battle (Summon Monster VII, Destruction, Disintegrate), I'd say there's a good chance he's lvl 14.

He cast Extended Summon Monster 7, which is an 8th level spell. Plus, his Blade Barrier is 15d6 of whirling death. He's at least 15th level.

[Sir_Norbert]

SoD spoiler:

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While I don't remember Redcloak's exact age, it's important to remember that he ages extremely slowly because of the Crimson Mantle. During SoD, we see RC's younger brother go from child to middle-aged while Redcloak's appearance remains the same.

Spoiler

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Oh yes -- 50 is considered old age for a golbin, judging by their remarks on page 27. Redcloak has gone beyond 50 without showing any signs of aging.

[Porthos]

Spoiler

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Oh yes -- 50 is considered old age for a golbin, judging by their remarks on page 27. Redcloak has gone beyond 50 without showing any signs of aging.

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And considering Right-Eye's comments about age and Wisdom (and Redcloak's doubt about them), it doesn't look like he got any of the benefits of advancing Age Categories, either. So I would say that he is still in the same age category (adulthood) as he was when he first put on the cloak, regardless of what it says on his birth certificate.

[Kurald Galain]

He's at least 15th level.

Plus, he can almost stand up against Miko pre-fall, whereas Miko can kick the Order's ass.

[Amon Star]

We already know from SoD that he is 51, though I forget the exact chain of deduction.

I really need to get that book, don't I?

D*MN YOU EXPENSES!

*Shakes fist in impotent rage*

[Kurald Galain]

I was thinking about Vaarsuvius having the listing "improved counterspell, or memorizes a lot of dispels". First I thought, V obviously does not memorize a lot of dispels, since he prefers Fireball/Lightning Bolt as his 3rd level spells. Then I thought, wait a minute, you can actually dispel a spell with itself (that's pretty much the point). It so happens that the Brigand girl casts only spells that V is also pretty fond of casting, so perhaps V doesn't have that feat after all...

[leo_neil316]

Has there ever been any indication that xykon knows any epic spells? Because some of those are nasty (I'd play, but I'd rather summon ten dragons with one spell).

[Cousinbj13]

I don't know if this is useful, but about Belkar's Wisdom. It's too low to use healing scrolls, but when he has Owl's Wisdom cast on him(+4 Wis), he's able to. So, that means he's no more than 4 Wisdom below the required amount to use healing scrolls. So, for the sake of arguments, since I don't know what Wisdom you need, let's say you need 15 Wisdom to use healing scrolls. That means that Belkar's Wisdom cannot be lower than 11.

[Kurald Galain]

I don't know if this is useful, but about Belkar's Wisdom.

It's been discussed to death. To cast a spell of level X, you need a wisdom of 10 + X. Since CMW is a 3rd-level spell, that means Belkar's wisdom is 9, +4 of the Owl spell would be sufficient to cast it. Yes, I'm aware that on other spell lists, CMW is 4th level, but that's a can of worms, so I'll just assume a cleric wrote that scroll.


And Leo, interesting point, but Xykon doesn't seem the type to sit down and research a spell.

[Chronos]

I don't know if this is useful, but about Belkar's Wisdom. It's too low to use healing scrolls, but when he has Owl's Wisdom cast on him(+4 Wis), he's able to. So, that means he's no more than 4 Wisdom below the required amount to use healing scrolls. So, for the sake of arguments, since I don't know what Wisdom you need, let's say you need 15 Wisdom to use healing scrolls. That means that Belkar's Wisdom cannot be lower than 11.

We've been over that in great, excruciating detail. Taken literally, that would be evidence that Belkar's wisdom is exactly 10 (any lower, and he can't cast Cure Serious Wounds even with V's spell; any higher, and he could cast level 1 spells on his own). However, this is in conflict with the Vulture Stew comic, where he says he has a wisdom penalty. The general consensus is that his wisdom is 9 or less, and there was some sort of stretching of the rules with the healing scrolls for the sake of the joke.

And I agree with Kurald Galain that V doesn't need improved counterspell. Most of Samantha's spell list seems to overlap a lot with what V prepares, so e could just counter with the same spell for most of them, and even if there's one or two that V doesn't have, e seems to be in the good habit of always memorizing at least one Dispell Magic (at least, we've never seen a situation where it would be useful where e didn't have it). Nor is it a big deal for V to use up 3rd-level spell slots, with that Ring of Wizardry.

[Cousinbj13]

Alright. Just wanted to make sure it had been discussed, and I wasn't about to read 50+ pages to find out.

[leo_neil316]

Kurald I see your point and raise you one 'Xykons moderatly escapable forcecage'.

[paallikko]

Reddie has to be at least 20 lvl to rebuke Xykon. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html

[Spiryt]

Reddie has to be at least 20 lvl to rebuke Xykon. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html

Hehe

[Porthos]

Reddie has to be at least 20 lvl to rebuke Xykon. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html

Errr.. You folks want to be the one to tell him, or should I?

[Fitzclowningham]

Thanks, Paallikko - I'd forgotton what a great stip #422 was. I hadn't read it since reading SOD. This time, it gave me chills.

[Felistor]

Errr.. You folks want to be the one to tell him, or should I?

Eh. We can just wait until he gets to #431 on his own.

[Quikngruvn]

Errr.. You folks want to be the one to tell him, or should I?

That Xykon has three brothers? Go right ahead!

[Spiryt]

Errr.. You folks want to be the one to tell him, or should I?

Um, I believed that this was joke

If he was serious, we finally know identity!

[RAGE KING!]

does anyone know if lien is at least level 8?

also, add Teevo to Xykon's equipment.

[Chrismith]

does anyone know if lien is at least level 8?

According to Defenders of the Faith, you have to be at least level 6 to have a large shark as a mount -- that book is 3.0, but the 3.5 PHB doesn't seem to contain any info about the levels at which mounts become available, so I don't know if it still applies or not. In any case, she's minimum level 5 or 6.

More telling might be the fact that she defeated the Giant Octopus mostly on her own -- a base Giant Octopus is CR 8, but I think there was some lengthy debate that resulted in proving that the octopus was huge, meaning it has a minimum of 13 HD. So to be effective against a CR ~13 octopus, I would guess that she has to be at least level 8 or 10, possibly higher.

[Wolfwood2]

According to Defenders of the Faith, you have to be at least level 6 to have a large shark as a mount -- that book is 3.0, but the 3.5 PHB doesn't seem to contain any info about the levels at which mounts become available, so I don't know if it still applies or not. In any case, she's minimum level 5 or 6.

Special paladin mounts are actually in the 3.5 DMG. You have to be 6th level for a Large Shark.

[Amon Star]

According to Defenders of the Faith, you have to be at least level 6 to have a large shark as a mount -- that book is 3.0, but the 3.5 PHB doesn't seem to contain any info about the levels at which mounts become available, so I don't know if it still applies or not. In any case, she's minimum level 5 or 6.

More telling might be the fact that she defeated the Giant Octopus mostly on her own -- a base Giant Octopus is CR 8, but I think there was some lengthy debate that resulted in proving that the octopus was huge, meaning it has a minimum of 13 HD. So to be effective against a CR ~13 octopus, I would guess that she has to be at least level 8 or 10, possibly higher.

The Octopus being Huge hasn't been definitely proven. However, if it was, then it would indeed be a CR 13. However, if it's only Large, then it would have been a CR 10.

[GoldenKitsune]

Hey guys, I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread, but shouldn't Redcloak's Charisma read as "Cha ≥ 12"

As proof, he attempts "turn undead" 4 times, (twice in 459, once in 461, and once again in 462), and since the amount of times you can attempt to turn is your Charisma modifier + 3, it stands to reason he has atleast a +1 modifier.

[Spiryt]

Hey guys, I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread, but shouldn't Redcloak's Charisma read as "Cha ≥ 12"

As proof, he attempts "turn undead" 4 times, (twice in 459, once in 461, and once again in 462), and since the amount of times you can attempt to turn is your Charisma modifier + 3, it stands to reason he has atleast a +1 modifier.

Sounds reasonable. At least 12 Charisma, probably little more and/or Extra Turning feat judging on how many ghosts he was able to turn...

[Dorizzit]

I'd say higher, seeing as the goblins who worked for him in Dorukan's Dungeon seemed to like him well enough.