Class and Level Geekery II

[Wrecan]

Noted. Still the poison at least put his strength at 17.

No it doesn't. Strength cannot be reduced below zero. Roy could have been poisoned 80 times and it would have made no difference.

[Wrecan]

On another topic, should we note lack of possessions as and when that's relevant? I was thinking of V having no scrolls or potions as of 452.

I guess so. Durkon probably no longer has his riding pony, so I'll take that off his sheet as well.

[Fineous Orlon]

Thanks for your reply:

I didn't mean to be short. I apologize.

A point of information and one concession

• Charging requires straight-line movement. Running does not.

Au contraire:

Run
You can run as a full-round action. (If you do, you do not also get a 5-foot step.) When you run, you can move up to four times your speed in a straight line (or three times your speed if you’re in heavy armor). You lose any Dexterity bonus to AC unless you have the Run

Our group finds this a little onerous, so we houserule a bit, it does help me be aware of it.

• With the Run Feat, he can run 80' per round with Medium armor and medium encumbrance. The least that Roy is carrying is (breastplate (30) + greatsword (8) + bedroll (5) + dwarf (134) + full plate (50) + steel shield (15) + warhammer (5) = 247). That is as you said, a Str of 20. Even if this is from a magic item, it should be reflected on his sheet. So I will make that correction.

Cool. In spite of the fact that I have not yet read the entire thread, this is a fun thread.

I am having a little trouble with the Run feat, it seems to not improve over normal much, so, I am going to read a bit.

[Fineous Orlon]

I am having a little trouble with the Run feat, it seems to not improve over normal much, so, I am going to read a bit.

Got it. My PH has the feat Run described differently than the SRD.

As it is in my PH, Run only benefits those lightly armored or loaded [giving 5x move], or heavily armored or loaded [giving 4x move]. The feat Run allows 4x move in Medium armor or with a medium load, which is normal.

Run in the SRD also gives a bonus to those medium-ly armored or loaded:

RUN [GENERAL]
Benefit: When running, you move five times your normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load).

That clears the fog a bit for me, or it makes more sense now, or whatever.

[Chronos]

On Pompey's level:
We know that he cast five touch-range buff spells on Sabine. At least some of those spells had a duration of 1 min/level and were helpful in Sabine's fight vs. Roy. The Guild's plan seems to have been for Sabine to fight Roy, so we can assume that all of the buffs would have been helpful against him. We further know that none of the buffs was Evocation nor Enchantment, since Pompey barred those schools (ruling out Heroism and Rage), and that none of them altered Sabine's appearance in any way (ruling out Enlarge Person, Blur, Displacement, and the like). The task, then, is to find the five lowest-level touch range buff spells which are effective vs. a LG fighter.

From 1st level, the only spell which meets the criteria is Protection from Good.
From 2nd level, the only spells which meet the criteria are Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Cat's Grace.
For 3rd level up, I'm not actually seeing any spells which meet the criteria. Is there something I'm missing?

[DeadmanXI]

On Pompey's level:
We know that he cast five touch-range buff spells on Sabine. At least some of those spells had a duration of 1 min/level and were helpful in Sabine's fight vs. Roy. The Guild's plan seems to have been for Sabine to fight Roy, so we can assume that all of the buffs would have been helpful against him. We further know that none of the buffs was Evocation nor Enchantment, since Pompey barred those schools (ruling out Heroism and Rage), and that none of them altered Sabine's appearance in any way (ruling out Enlarge Person, Blur, Displacement, and the like). The task, then, is to find the five lowest-level touch range buff spells which are effective vs. a LG fighter.

From 1st level, the only spell which meets the criteria is Protection from Good.
From 2nd level, the only spells which meet the criteria are Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Cat's Grace.
For 3rd level up, I'm not actually seeing any spells which meet the criteria. Is there something I'm missing?

Well, for 1st Level, Mage Armor would meet the "Touch Range Buff Spells" criteria (since she wears no armor).

[Chronos]

Hmm, true. It's a longer duration than the others, but I suppose nothing says that all of the buff spells were 1 min/level.

Still, though, Pompey has to be more than 3rd level, or he wouldn't have all the spell slots he'd need. We know he cast at least 8 spells, and even with specialization and a high int, a 3rd-level wizard only has 11 spell slots, 4 of which are cantrips. At 3rd, his buffs would have to be at most one 2nd-level, three 1sts, and a cantrip, and there just aren't any cantrip buffs worth casting, and you'd be hard-pressed to find three 1sts, too.

[DeadmanXI]

Hmm, true. It's a longer duration than the others, but I suppose nothing says that all of the buff spells were 1 min/level.

Still, though, Pompey has to be more than 3rd level, or he wouldn't have all the spell slots he'd need. We know he cast at least 8 spells, and even with specialization and a high int, a 3rd-level wizard only has 11 spell slots, 4 of which are cantrips. At 3rd, his buffs would have to be at most one 2nd-level, three 1sts, and a cantrip, and there just aren't any cantrip buffs worth casting, and you'd be hard-pressed to find three 1sts, too.

Yeah, evidence would suggest he cast 5 seperate 2nd Level Spells, and then ran out. This pegs him at between 6th and 8th Level. I'd say around 6th personally, high enough to be useful, low enough that he's no match at all for the OoTS. This means he has access to 3rd (and maybe even 4th) Level spells and never uses them, but that's really not THAT unlikely, considering the circumstances of the battle.

[Drglenn]

Double post, ignore

[Drglenn]

Durkon's Alignment
Hilgya's domains are Chaos and Fire which would make her alignment either chaotic or neutral (god's alignment is chaotic to have chaos domain, clerics must be within one step of their deity's alignment), which would make his lawful or neutral by way of opposites
Leeky Windstaff is Neural Evil so that makes Durkon Neutral Good and Hilgya also Neutral Evil

[Kreistor]

Durkon's Alignment
Hilgya's domains are Chaos and Fire which would make her alignment either chaotic or neutral (god's alignment is chaotic to have chaos domain, clerics must be within one step of their deity's alignment), which would make his lawful or neutral by way of opposites
Leeky Windstaff is Neural Evil so that makes Durkon Neutral Good and Hilgya also Neutral Evil

Actually, to take an alignment domain, you must match that alignment. (Under Deities, Domains, and Domain Spells on page 32 of the PHB.) But I don't see anything in that particular comic that demands Hilgya has the Chaos Domain, just Fire. Maybe if you'd clarify that...?

And opposites don't need to be completely opposite, so Hilgya does nto need to be Chaotic Evil (since Durkon is Lawful Good). Just opposite in some important ways and alike in others. Hilgya and Durkon are the same race, for instance, while Haley and Sabine are different races. Haley is Chaotic Good, but Sabine is Chaotic Evil.

[Drglenn]

The fact that she announces Flames and Chaos seems to give it away IMHO

Also belkar seems to have improved disarm (look at the 8th panel, there is no attack of opportunity when he takes the mace)

[Porthos]

Durkon's Alignment
Hilgya's domains are Chaos and Fire which would make her alignment either chaotic or neutral (god's alignment is chaotic to have chaos domain, clerics must be within one step of their deity's alignment), which would make his lawful or neutral by way of opposites
Leeky Windstaff is Neural Evil so that makes Durkon Neutral Good and Hilgya also Neutral Evil

Durkon is confirmed as Lawful from On the Origins of PCs. And his behaviour is very Good. Therefore he is Lawful Good, no matter what the One Step Rule says about clerics and their gods.

[Kreistor]

The fact that she announces Flames and Chaos seems to give it away IMHO

Loki is the God of Lame and Chaos. That's fine. She recognizes that. That does not mean she has the Chaos Domain, or that she herself is Chaotic.

Opinion is meaningless in this thread. What matters is what you can prove by the rules.

Also belkar seems to have improved disarm (look at the 8th panel, there is no attack of opportunity when he takes the mace)

The character he disarms has not made an attack, and therefore may have been flat-footed, which denies AoO's. He might have Imp Disarm, but he may not.

[Chronos]

Loki is the God of Lame and Chaos. That's fine. She recognizes that. That does not mean she has the Chaos Domain, or that she herself is Chaotic.

Still, the fact that she refers to him as such, rather than, say, the god of Trickery and Evil, is suggestive: It says that she considers Flame and Chaos to be the two most important aspects of Loki's sphere. This is especially so considering that we know that Fire is one of her domains. Barring any evidence to the contrary, I'd say that's strong enough evidence that she has the Chaos domain.

[DeadmanXI]

Since nobody's responded to these, I'll restate them:

On a completely unrelated note this strip and several others seem to indicate Belkar has the Scent ability or something like it. I have no idea how he would've gotten it, but it seems clear he got SOMETHING.

Also, on a random and pedantic note, as a 13th (or 12th) Level Human Fighter, shouldn't Roy have 13 Feats, not 12?

On a couple of similar notes, with their listed class, race, and level Nale should have 8 Feats, Redcloak should have 6, Tsukiko should have 5, and Miko should have 9. Miko is also missing the Track feat, which we know for a fact she has (well, had). Yeah, it doesn't actually matter that much, I'm just being pedantic. Sorry about that, but it bothers me. Like an itch you can't scratch, y'know?

On another random note in this comic Xykon uses Maximize Spell. It should go on his Feat List.

On a final pedantic note, why does Haley have a Shortbow on her equipment list? As far as I know, we've only ever seen her use one bow.

And on a (this time, really) final note, Why are the Linear Guild listed a level below the OoTS? As their "evil opposites" it seems a reasonable assumption that they're likely to advance in level at the same rate.

[Vargtass]

On the scent ability of Belkar: The Giant has stated in a forum post that in his world, halflings get an ability that works like this. It's related to their culinary requirements, somehow, but no detailed rules given.

On the level of the Linear Guild members: While I agree that the levels of Nale, Sabine, and Thog probably are equal to the Order's (for symmetry), it can not (yet) be proven. And that's what this thread does: lists proven characteristics (i.e backed by evidence). At the same time, Leeky, Yok-Yok, and Pompey does not have to be equal in level to the original LG at all, and specially for Pompey, the evidence suggests that he is not.

I agree that the number of feats should be updated to show correct values. And the missing Track feat was a nice catch!

[DeadmanXI]

On the scent ability of Belkar: The Giant has stated in a forum post that in his world, halflings get an ability that works like this. It's related to their culinary requirements, somehow, but no detailed rules given.

Makes sense. It should get noted somewhere though, since it clearly has mechanical effects.

On the level of the Linear Guild members: While I agree that the levels of Nale, Sabine, and Thog probably are equal to the Order's (for symmetry), it can not (yet) be proven. And that's what this thread does: lists proven characteristics (i.e backed by evidence). At the same time, Leeky, Yok-Yok, and Pompey does not have to be equal in level to the original LG at all, and specially for Pompey, the evidence suggests that he is not.

Oh, absolutely. I was just talking Nale, Sabine, and Thog. And it's not quite that restricted, I mean, we have no evidence for the specific level of any of the OoTS except Varsuvius, but they're still listed at 13 on the assumption the group are all the same level. It seems reasonable to expand this slightly to include the recurring Linear Guild members.

I agree that the number of feats should be updated to show correct values. And the missing Track feat was a nice catch!

Thanks. Just trying to be helpful.

[Tempest Fennac]

Regarding Pompeii's level, could he have used scrolls on Sabine? I'm assuming that he did due to his low level (the highest level spell we see him use is Summon Monster 2, and it could be assumed that he would use a higher level SM spell if he had access to them unless he was using Conjuration spells to help Sabine).

[Blanth]

Wow. I had no idea the forums existed. Here I thought I lived in OOtS isolation...

Anyways. It is with shock and amazement that in Vaarsuvius' compiled stats have neglected to note the 12 levels of cake decorating (need strip reference#).

It could be a very useful skill and should be listed.

Maybe?

[Wrecan]

Cake decorating? Is that from one of the Dragon strips?

[The Black Cat]

...Red Mage?

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040518

[Blanth]

Cake decorating? Is that from one of the Dragon strips?

All I remember are Elan & Vaarsuvius in a kitchen talking about it.

[Chrismith]

All I remember are Elan & Vaarsuvius in a kitchen talking about it.

As TBC pointed out, are you sure you aren't conflating this guest strip that Rich did with this OOTS strip?

I admit that I haven't read the last few Dragon strips, but it seems odd that the joke would be reused.

[Glorfindel]

Also belkar seems to have improved disarm (look at the 8th panel, there is no attack of opportunity when he takes the mace)

That's a morningstar, not a mace ...

[Blanth]

As TBC pointed out, are you sure you aren't conflating this guest strip that Rich did with this OOTS strip?

I am not sure anymore *sob*.

Though, it does now make a lot more sense into how Vaarsuvius is able to determine the arcane secrets of the doily!

[RMS Oceanic]

Well, it's confirmed. Belkar is Chaotic Evil. I think we can use this direct reference by a higher power to confirm it.

[Wrecan]

That's good enough for me!

[Chronos]

A thought... We've been assuming that Roy has a mediocre Dex. But in Start of Darkness, we see that (minor spoiler)

Spoiler

Show

he was the star of his Little League soccer team. I don't play soccer, but I would expect that it'd be more dependant on Dex than Str, so wouldn't that imply that his Dex is above-average, too?

Apparently, Roy was just blessed by the dice.

[Wrecan]

Spoiler

Show

he was the star of his Little League soccer team. I don't play soccer, but I would expect that it'd be more dependant on Dex than Str, so wouldn't that imply that his Dex is above-average, too?

Maybe. Some issues with the theory:

• "Soccer" isn't a Skill with an Ability modifier. For all we know this could be governed by Profession (little league soccer), which would require Wisdom or Craft (goals) for Intelligence!
• Children's stats don't necessarily coordinate to adult stats. There are no rules for it. He could have been agile for a 6-year old and never got better.
• Eugene probably lived in a neigborhood with a lot of other wizards. That's probably as geeky a neighborhood a fanbtasy world could create. Even if Roy had slightly below average physical stats, he would be giant among men in nerdville.
• Maybe Roy was the star because he could muscle past his opponents (Str) and never got tired runnign up and down the field (Con).