Attack on Titan / Shingeki No Kyojin: What's for Lunch?

[Ramza00]

And frankly, I don't care for the Ackerman twist either. I tend to say any explanation is better than no explanation but now...
Also, the survey core is apparently pretty stupid, as is Zeke because he forgot how their last fight went and he's not really in a better position now. But I guess he got plot on his side now.
I'm just curious whom he's working for.[/QUOTE]

I am putting this into spoiler blocks

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 112, Dec 2018

Show

Ugh, I'm not sure why but I really don't like Eren suddenly turning all philosophical.

Sorry but Eren was always going to become philosophical no matter what happened. For two reasons.

#1

Back in Vol 21 and 22 (chapters 83 to 90), after the battle of Shiganshina District, after the Basement, Eren entered "the cave" (as in Plato) when they retrieved "THE TRUTH" in the form of the 3 diaries of his father. Eren was always going to become Philosophical when he found out he only had 13 years to live (well only about 8 years left to live for he lived 5 years already after inheriting the Titan.)

When someone knows in a concrete way they are going to die, it always triggers an existential crisis and this will always cause someone to be philosophical, even if temporary.

Eren could not be the boy running towards the future forever, the one who did not care about consequences, only living for the future, when he know that he was going to die at a specific time and date. It is easy to be on "the attack" when you think the future is boundless and you only have to do "self-care" to preserve your energy stores, to preserve your body. And remember Eren sucked at this, he could not self supply and he required his friends and his titan power of regeneration to not breakdown way earlier.

When you do not "see the Walls" around reality you see reality as infinite, reality is abstract, but put a person into a cage even if its the cage of death with only a specific amount of time you have left to live and they will always feel stressed and they will try to either resist the cage, or they will try to better "order the remaining moments of their life.

#2

What is new with chapter #112, except it is not really new, is we know the "paths" the will of the titans influence the hosts of the Titan Shifters. Except this is not really new for we know that all the way back to the The Uprising Arc (chapters 51 to 70), for the First King (Karl Fritz, who was actually the 145th King) with his Founding Titan / Progenitor Titan and the Coordinate locked the actions of all following inheritors of this Titan. They were all trapped in the cycle by his will.

So what we learned in chapter #112 is not new information, what is new is that Eren now has 3 different wills / path sources beside his own trying to influence his behavior, at least 4 different people are trying to control Eren inside of his own head, and even more people are trying to control Eren outside his head with their words and deeds.

The only way to get out of this is via philosophy^A where you debate and come to a consensus amount yourselves, or entropy / random chance / random choice^B where different wills will grab hold of Eren's behavior at the right time / worse time.

---------

It is alright if you do not like where the story is going Kato , but where the story is going has kind of been foreshadowed for 4 years now ever since The Uprising arc. We are merely at the Reprise further down the "musical" story, we have repetition / reiteration / recapitulation of what occurred before, except the story is not quite the same as it was 4 years ago.

And frankly, I don't care for the Ackerman twist either. I tend to say any explanation is better than no explanation but now...

It is okay if you do not find the explanation given to be satisfying it is okay for the answer to be unsatisfactory something something wings of freedom.

Take for example Levi Ackerman and his uncle Kenny Ackerman (the crazed psychopath / sociopath.) Both of them are not "machines" to destiny, but instead people who actually embrace choice above all.

For example Levi giving Eren the choice in the Female Titan arc



Or Kenny Ackerman specifically choosing to be vile (be a serial killer), for at least that is his own choices, choices of his own will, his own actions.

I'm just curious whom he's working for.

Zeke is only working for himself now, for he has no obligation / duties to others beside his own will at this point. He has less than a year to live and thus he can be as generous or petty as he wants to be. This "freedom" allows him to be quite narcissistic or Zeke can be the ultimate altrust, or something in between.

We only have one internal Zeke monologue and that was from 4 years ago when Zeke had 5 years left of his life. I do not trust any word out of Zeke mouth to others, but I do trust his internal monologue for this was "private / secret."

In the monologue where Zeke played baseball with the rocks (chapter 79, 80, and 81), Zeke hates "pointless struggle" and "pointless death," Zeke thinks memories will save you from that, but the most revealing part of this is while Zeke pretends to be stoic / equanimous / even emotions / even soul / calm soul the reality is Zeke is a flood of emotions and arousal states like a ocean that produces quite large waves. Zeke in chapter 79 was blinded by his own emotions (which influenced his perception), while Levi (who is very similar to Zeke thus their strong dislike to each other) is the true person who has mastered his own emotions and that is why he was the victor in that encounter.

Who is going to "win this rematch" I can not say. The whole encounter is by design meant to parallel the battle of Shiganshina District between Levi and Zeke. It is almost an exact rematch with Levi vs Zeke especially when you figure that Zeke has mindless titans nearby, ones he can bark commands at. One of the things that make me suspicious that Zeke may win this is not his memory speech in 81, but he understands the need for a point of reference in 79, and he realizes in 81 he lost due to "perception" where he underestimated both the Survey Corps and Levi. Zeke may lose but he is unlikely to make the same mistake twice in the exact same way, "Zeke is smarter than that."

[Lurkmoar]

New chapter's out.

Spoiler

Show

Levi versus Zeke and some titans.

...

Zeke still gets his ass handed to him. Also, Floch is an total bastard.

[Ramza00]

Manga Chapter 113, Jan 2019

All I can say is BOOM!

So we have to wait for March before the story continues again?

[deuterio12]

New chapter's out.

Spoiler

Show

Levi versus Zeke and some titans.

...

Zeke still gets his ass handed to him. Also, Floch is an total bastard.

Spoiler

Show

Zeke didn't even want to fight, he was just trying to run away the hell from there, but the titan mash just slowed Levi down for a few seconds before he caught up.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Levi just solos the coalition army preparing to invade the island, probably cutting battleships in half or something.

Also was somewhat funny seeing the instructor going all "I'm too stronk for you weaklings to overwhelm me with simple numbers!" only to be eating dirt next panel. They don't do old teachers like they used to.

[Ramza00]

Spoiler

Show

Zeke didn't even want to fight, he was just trying to run away the hell from there, but the titan mash just slowed Levi down for a few seconds before he caught up.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Levi just solos the coalition army preparing to invade the island, probably cutting battleships in half or something.

Also was somewhat funny seeing the instructor going all "I'm too stronk for you weaklings to overwhelm me with simple numbers!" only to be eating dirt next panel. They don't do old teachers like they used to.

Responding to deuterio12

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 113, Jan 2019

Show

Zeke didn't even want to fight, he was just trying to run away the hell from there, but the titan mash just slowed Levi down for a few seconds before he caught up.

Zeke / Beast Titan is an artillery / archery type of fighter.

Levi is an Calvary type of fighter. But Levi unlike real like horses / calvary / chariots the principle of 3DMG prefers forestry / cities vs plains. Zeke by contrast can only shine in places where there is no cover so he can fight with his ranged weapons and there is no way for the enemies to defend himself.

The only way for Zeke to win was one of two ways. 1) To kill Levi quickly with the roughly 30 titans. 2) To deny him the ability to use Thunder Spears. Zeke was confident in #1 that Levi couldn't survive 30 abnormal titans, especially since Zeke felt Levi would be a normal human who will be reluctant to kill his comrades. Zeke did not understand Levi (ironic since he was monologuing that Paradise Island does not understand the outer worlds.) Zeke knows some of the history of Paradise Island from bird eyes point of view, but a subjective point of view is just as important. If Zeke understand that this specific branch of the military that Levi was participated in (Survey Corps / Wings of Freedom) had ritual "hazing" where they slaughtered their own men with the desire to be free with the promise a longshot chance, a very small chance, may cause the survival of humanity they would take that chance. Zeke did not understand the crucible of "HELL" that Levi has been experiencing for the last 10 years from 844 to 854 (Eren joins survey corps 850, Wall Maria falls in 845.)

Zeke logic makes sense with his limited information, but if he had more information that we the readers had, than the real tactic for Zeke would be to attempt what he did while at the same time running straight for where the Thunder Spears are located. Levi had only swords / blades on him when the transformation of the 30 titans occurred, and no thunder spears. If Zeke camped around where the supplies were he could have win against Levi for hardening his nape will restrict his neck movement / field of vision but then it becomes a battle of endurance for Levi would not have a way to kill the Beast Titan, sure the Beast Titan can be cut up numerous times but Levi could not remove Zeke from the beast titan with the harden nape. And even normal Titan Skin dulls the blades and Levi would have limited gas. So either the 30 titans would kill Levi, or it becomes a battle of endurance. During the battle of endurance there are many opportunities where Zeke can kill Levi via smashing him, or merely falling on top of him for he is 7+ times taller, 7+ times wider, 7+times deeper. (1,400 cm vs 160 is a difference of 8.75)

Zekes tactics were poorly chosen but they make sense with his knowledge. It was smart from Zeke perspective, but Zeke choose wrongly.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Levi just solos the coalition army preparing to invade the island, probably cutting battleships in half or something.

My instinct is that Eren is trying to bring all the armies of the world and release the rumbling on a small scale to reduce the number of casualties of the "innocent vs the guilty." Eren wants to remove the powers that be, both the leaders and their armies. Eren wants to "save" Historia and the other "innocents" who do not want to live as rulers, who just want to live their own lives, and do not want to be slaves / cattle in the process.

Thus all the armies of the world assemble, and the founder then destroy's most / all of them with a localized "nuke" that is the wall titans.

Then we get a conflict of the remaining survey corps and some of the survivors of the armies trying to kill / defeat Eren for 1 man should not have this much power and it is inherently destabilizing. The survivers of the armies are doing this of their own free will for they can choose now that the "structure" / "the paths" of the nation state has been battered to the point they can challenge it of their own free will, without being instantly crushed like an insect.

Also was somewhat funny seeing the instructor going all "I'm too stronk for you weaklings to overwhelm me with simple numbers!" only to be eating dirt next panel. They don't do old teachers like they used to.

I read the scene differently. Remember the old man was Shadis the drill instructor / training instructor. He recognized a "hazing ritual" when it is occurring for it is his job to perform hazing rituals that are proactive and not too destructive as his job as a boot camp instructor.

1) He needed EVERYONE to beat him up, for 2) some people beating him up and some people not beating him up is the worse outcome, the 3rd ) outcome is no one beating him up but this was not an option after Floche forced Shadis hand and said this was going to be a hazing ritual and the only way to be on our side was to "purify" the old guard by punching him and showing that you are "one of us" and a true believer of the Yeager faction.

So Shadis purposefully provoked everyone to give them "tacit" permission to punch him and remain themselves while at the same time remaining part of the Yeager faction rebels. If this didn't happen anyone who did not punch Shadis was either going to be thrown in jail or killed instantly on the spot to be made an example of.

I would say more but I can't due this forum's rules about politics, governments, psychology, sociology, and history. I can't explain how this "us vs them" dynamic in micro, these rituals that Floche invoked, can be used to set up certain types of political systems in macro. I am confident in you deuterio12 and other readers to infer what I am talking about. I am now dropping this for I went to close to this forum's rules.

[deuterio12]

Responding to Ramza00

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 113, Jan 2019

Show

Zeke / Beast Titan is an artillery / archery type of fighter.

Levi is an Calvary type of fighter. But Levi unlike real like horses / calvary / chariots the principle of 3DMG prefers forestry / cities vs plains. Zeke by contrast can only shine in places where there is no cover so he can fight with his ranged weapons and there is no way for the enemies to defend himself.

The only way for Zeke to win was one of two ways. 1) To kill Levi quickly with the roughly 30 titans. 2) To deny him the ability to use Thunder Spears. Zeke was confident in #1 that Levi couldn't survive 30 abnormal titans, especially since Zeke felt Levi would be a normal human who will be reluctant to kill his comrades. Zeke did not understand Levi (ironic since he was monologuing that Paradise Island does not understand the outer worlds.) Zeke knows some of the history of Paradise Island from bird eyes point of view, but a subjective point of view is just as important. If Zeke understand that this specific branch of the military that Levi was participated in (Survey Corps / Wings of Freedom) had ritual "hazing" where they slaughtered their own men with the desire to be free with the promise a longshot chance, a very small chance, may cause the survival of humanity they would take that chance. Zeke did not understand the crucible of "HELL" that Levi has been experiencing for the last 10 years from 844 to 854 (Eren joins survey corps 850, Wall Maria falls in 845.)

Zeke logic makes sense with his limited information, but if he had more information that we the readers had, than the real tactic for Zeke would be to attempt what he did while at the same time running straight for where the Thunder Spears are located. Levi had only swords / blades on him when the transformation of the 30 titans occurred, and no thunder spears. If Zeke camped around where the supplies were he could have win against Levi for hardening his nape will restrict his neck movement / field of vision but then it becomes a battle of endurance for Levi would not have a way to kill the Beast Titan, sure the Beast Titan can be cut up numerous times but Levi could not remove Zeke from the beast titan with the harden nape. And even normal Titan Skin dulls the blades and Levi would have limited gas. So either the 30 titans would kill Levi, or it becomes a battle of endurance. During the battle of endurance there are many opportunities where Zeke can kill Levi via smashing him, or merely falling on top of him for he is 7+ times taller, 7+ times wider, 7+times deeper. (1,400 cm vs 160 is a difference of 8.75)

Zekes tactics were poorly chosen but they make sense with his knowledge. It was smart from Zeke perspective, but Zeke choose wrongly.

If Zekes was confident that 30 titans could bring down Levi, he wouldn't be running away as fast as he can and never looking back. He just hoped the 30 comrade titans would delay Levi enough time to get out of doge. Zeke himself says his victory condition is just getting out of the forest in one piece, in which case Levi would be unable to keep up with him, not to kill Levi himself.

Denying Levi the thunder spears may've been a better tactic, but would demand a)Zeke knowing where they were stashed and b)Levi having been foolish enough to stash them all in a single place. I would bet good money that there were Thunder spears hidden in a bunch of different nearby locations around the place since Levi had time to set up. Risking overlooking a hidden set of thunder spears was too much of a gamble no matter how you look at it.

So basically Zeke's error was understimating Levi's haxor skillz that let him cut through 30 titans in record time with zero hesitation despite them being his former comrades, pick up some thunder spears and close in the distance all without breaking a sweat.

My instinct is that Eren is trying to bring all the armies of the world and release the rumbling on a small scale to reduce the number of casualties of the "innocent vs the guilty." Eren wants to remove the powers that be, both the leaders and their armies. Eren wants to "save" Historia and the other "innocents" who do not want to live as rulers, who just want to live their own lives, and do not want to be slaves / cattle in the process.

Thus all the armies of the world assemble, and the founder then destroy's most / all of them with a localized "nuke" that is the wall titans.

Then we get a conflict of the remaining survey corps and some of the survivors of the armies trying to kill / defeat Eren for 1 man should not have this much power and it is inherently destabilizing. The survivers of the armies are doing this of their own free will for they can choose now that the "structure" / "the paths" of the nation state has been battered to the point they can challenge it of their own free will, without being instantly crushed like an insect.

Hmmm, Eren going "Come at me bros!" at the whole world makes sense when you put it like that, and hundreds/thousands of titans charging against an industrialized humie army would make for some awesome finale.

Then after all the titans are destroyed by concentrated artillery, Levi charges out and slices the invading armies in half.

I read the scene differently. Remember the old man was Shadis the drill instructor / training instructor. He recognized a "hazing ritual" when it is occurring for it is his job to perform hazing rituals that are proactive and not too destructive as his job as a boot camp instructor.

1) He needed EVERYONE to beat him up, for 2) some people beating him up and some people not beating him up is the worse outcome, the 3rd ) outcome is no one beating him up but this was not an option after Floche forced Shadis hand and said this was going to be a hazing ritual and the only way to be on our side was to "purify" the old guard by punching him and showing that you are "one of us" and a true believer of the Yeager faction.

So Shadis purposefully provoked everyone to give them "tacit" permission to punch him and remain themselves while at the same time remaining part of the Yeager faction rebels. If this didn't happen anyone who did not punch Shadis was either going to be thrown in jail or killed instantly on the spot to be made an example of.

Yeah I also considered that, but when taken out of context just makes Shadis look like an overconfident old master.

If this was a more shonen series then Shadis would've beaten down all the rookies then beaten up the armed rebels and made them apologize or something.

[Ramza00]

Responding to deuterio12 for I agree with him.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 113, Jan 2019

Show

If Zekes was confident that 30 titans could bring down Levi, he wouldn't be running away as fast as he can and never looking back. He just hoped the 30 comrade titans would delay Levi enough time to get out of doge. Zeke himself says his victory condition is just getting out of the forest in one piece, in which case Levi would be unable to keep up with him, not to kill Levi himself.

Denying Levi the thunder spears may've been a better tactic, but would demand a)Zeke knowing where they were stashed and b)Levi having been foolish enough to stash them all in a single place. I would bet good money that there were Thunder spears hidden in a bunch of different nearby locations around the place since Levi had time to set up. Risking overlooking a hidden set of thunder spears was too much of a gamble no matter how you look at it.

So basically Zeke's error was understimating Levi's haxor skillz that let him cut through 30 titans in record time with zero hesitation despite them being his former comrades, pick up some thunder spears and close in the distance all without breaking a sweat.

I agree with this. For Victory is multiple things, and the important thing is not just accumulating all these multiple things, but also getting the sequence of behavior, the timing of the multiple things and getting this timing right. Zeke underestimiating Levi's speed at killing the 30 titans, and Zeke thinking Levi will hesitate when killing his former comrades is just as much about "timing" as it about understanding the multiple victory steps, the fundamentals.

So I agree with this, your analysis of Zeke's mistakes is correct deuterio12.

Hmmm, Eren going "Come at me bros!" at the whole world makes sense when you put it like that, and hundreds/thousands of titans charging against an industrialized humie army would make for some awesome finale.

Then after all the titans are destroyed by concentrated artillery, Levi charges out and slices the invading armies in half.

Nods for this is partly a shounen series and thus part of it is just badassery showmanship by the "role-models" / people you are to identify with. Levi is such a person the author creates to attract the shounen aspect even though the shounen aspect is only part of the greater story, only a small part of the greater totality.

Yeah I also considered that, but when taken out of context just makes Shadis look like an overconfident old master.

If this was a more shonen series then Shadis would've beaten down all the rookies then beaten up the armed rebels and made them apologize or something.

But remember that while part of this is a Shounen series, there are many aspects on Attack on Titan that are not Shounen related. In many ways other genres exist in Titan such as a cynicism of human nature as individuals, cycnicism of human structures we make (such as goverments, society, group interaction), apocalypse storytelling, etc etc Yadda, Yadda, Yadda.

So while in a Shounen story you will have Shadis have a worthy showing (even if he loses, or worthy with his victory) for he is a badass, in the other aspects of Titan we have to have Shadis lose, we have to have him be humiliated, even if he is willing to lose, willing to be humiliated for some greater noble purpose.

This is much like how we needed Erwin to lose, to die a death where he "does not rise above" but instead his death is an absurd tragic farce, even if his death allows Levi to rise above and secure the victory. This is not typical shounen fare and it subverts the expectations. Shadis being humiliated here is much like Erwin's story 30 chapters earlier in those manga chapters in the late 70s and early 80s.

[Kato]

[spoiler]
Well, that went about as well for Zeke as I expected... though I admire Levi's creativity at the end... that's a good way to restrain him, though I would have ignored any plan you have for him and finish him. Or at least cut his vocal cords. Because we know he won't go out like this.

Also, I feel like this story really loves to make out anyone not important to be idiots. So what, the whole of the training regiment secretly wanted to betray their government? That looks like about a hundred people and all of them were like "sure, we'll join the rebellion". Not one considered this might be a test or something? Or be a decent enough human to disagree? Floch is nobody to them, Shadis has been their instructor for I guess at least weeks, probably months. You don't just decide to betray them basically on a whim. (Ok, it is kind of at gun point but still that's not what you just do if you have a decent idea how a recruit feels towards a good superior, even if he is strict with them) But of course that would be giving too much credit to characters with no names. Same as all of Zeke's guards getting drunk on duty. (Not literally but you know what I mean) That's a problem if you take a huge group of people and you pretend they all just act in unison to totally weird situations, just because it serves your narrative. /rant
Seriously, when this story attempts to do anything profound it falls flat.

[deuterio12]

[spoiler]
Well, that went about as well for Zeke as I expected... though I admire Levi's creativity at the end... that's a good way to restrain him, though I would have ignored any plan you have for him and finish him. Or at least cut his vocal cords. Because we know he won't go out like this.

Levi wants to interrogate Zeke, kinda hard to do that if he can't speak.

Also, I feel like this story really loves to make out anyone not important to be idiots. So what, the whole of the training regiment secretly wanted to betray their government? That looks like about a hundred people and all of them were like "sure, we'll join the rebellion". Not one considered this might be a test or something? Or be a decent enough human to disagree? Floch is nobody to them, Shadis has been their instructor for I guess at least weeks, probably months. You don't just decide to betray them basically on a whim. (Ok, it is kind of at gun point but still that's not what you just do if you have a decent idea how a recruit feels towards a good superior, even if he is strict with them) But of course that would be giving too much credit to characters with no names. Same as all of Zeke's guards getting drunk on duty. (Not literally but you know what I mean) That's a problem if you take a huge group of people and you pretend they all just act in unison to totally weird situations, just because it serves your narrative. /rant
Seriously, when this story attempts to do anything profound it falls flat.

It's called group mentality and peer pressure, if a bunch of people start doing something others nearby often follow along. Doubly so when fine booze is related, if you said "nah I won't drink the fancy wine at this merry event" then you'll probably get weird stares and/or people pushing you a filled cup anyway. Nobody wants to be the party pooper.

Maybe some had bigger doubts for the betrayal bit, but what are they exactly gonna do, scream "I'm loyal to the government and will never side with you filthy traitors/rebels!" then made an example of by said betrayers/rebels? As you point out they were being held at gunpoint. They're just rookies in training, give them a break for them not being brave enough to instantly sacrifice themselves for their personal ideals.

[Kato]

It's not a party, they are on guard duty. The fact that Levi or whoever is their superior allowed any of them to drink is already weird but that nobody put the rules above their thirst is... Okay, honestly, it's pretty on par with what we know about their military. I guess they at least had someone check if it was poisoned before all got shot.

Oh, I can live with doing it at gun point. I complain about the scene giving the impression all / most of them gleefully joined the rebellion and beat up Shadis. Not because they had to, but because they wanted to. Hardly any sign of hesitation.

[HandofShadows]

Latest is out.

Spoiler

Show

So we learn Zeke's backstory and why he plays baseball. One strange thing is that a plague 600 years ago was mentioned. That would have been around the same time the Black Death would have happened in the real world assuming that AOT takes place in the late 19th/early 20th Century. Starting to wonder if AOT takes place in an alternate world or it's our world and history was rewritten by the power of the Founding Titian. Also, BOOM!

[deuterio12]

Latest is out.

Spoiler

Show

So we learn Zeke's backstory and why he plays baseball. One strange thing is that a plague 600 years ago was mentioned. That would have been around the same time the Black Death would have happened in the real world assuming that AOT takes place in the late 19th/early 20th Century. Starting to wonder if AOT takes place in an alternate world or it's our world and history was rewritten by the power of the Founding Titian. Also, BOOM!

Spoiler

Show

Considering that titans very conveniently don't leave any giant bodies behind after killed, that may just be the author's plan from the start.

[Frozen_Feet]

Tonight on episode 114, Zeke takes being a self-hating j... Eldian to new heights, embraces his inner Hit... Marleyan, and comes up with a final solution to the je... errr, hollow... no, demon... ghoul... *ahem*, the Titan problem.

Also, Grisha Yaeger wins another Dad of the Year award!

Inb4 Zeke did nothing wrong.

[HandofShadows]

Zeke is really missing a lot of points here. If the Founding Titian has that much control that it can make all Eldians immune to the Black Death, it also at least suggests that it could be used to prevent anyone from turning into a Titian. Problem solved and no one has to die.

[deuterio12]

Zeke is really missing a lot of points here. If the Founding Titian has that much control that it can make all Eldians immune to the Black Death, it also at least suggests that it could be used to prevent anyone from turning into a Titian. Problem solved and no one has to die.

Black Plague still follows the laws of biology/science. Titan transformation... Doesn't. Just because you can create immunity against one there's no reason to believe one can immunize against the other.

[Kato]

I'm pretty sure he could speed it up and kill all of them, though.
Seriously, this is... Ugh. I mean, I guess every sane person is supposed to see how stupid this is but I know some will claim he's justified. I wonder if anyone in universe knows the full extent of his plans.
Don't get me wrong, the kid surely had a screwed up life, but I still don't see myself sympathizing with genocide.

Also, I want more of his predecessor and how the heck he figured that stuff out.

[lord_khaine]

Well.. Zeke is 100 % the Marleyans creation, so i do think the blame of him falls back on them.
Its just to bad that he cant see the titan problem is more or less about to be solved by science.
They are already outclassed by battleships on the open sea. And soon outclassed by Zeppelins as well.

[Ramza00]

Zeke is really missing a lot of points here. If the Founding Titian has that much control that it can make all Eldians immune to the Black Death, it also at least suggests that it could be used to prevent anyone from turning into a Titian. Problem solved and no one has to die.

Shh that is probably Eren's motivation where Eren and Zeke are diametrically oppossed on what they see is the problem and what the solution is but both think the status quo are dysphoric / insufferable / inable to bear. Eren is probably manipulating Zeke.

Think of the wills of others, the dead, affecting the present people from beyond the grave via paths as a virus, a parasite.

Eren wants to remove the parasite,
Zeke wants to make the "herd" unable to reproduce hereby destroy the parasite's food source.

The difference to us outsiders is obvious if Eren plan is actually possible you should obviously choose Eren's probable plan. But from the internal point of view of these characters, from their subjective point of view, Zeke's actions can make sense. It is a form of learned helplessness where he has no faith in the system, he has no faith in the Eladian culture as its own thing. Instead he merely sees a universal culture and humans participate in that universal culture. Thus the loss of one ethnicity in that culture from this point of view, is not a true lost. Remember Zeke had ****ty parents and ****ty grandparents to him the infertile Eladians can adopt Marleyans that are in need and are suffering a horrible life and give them good parental figures. After all this is what happened to Zeke and Baseball Man (Tom Xaver) who was Zeke's mentor. Zeke understands (or perhaps he does not understand) that his own life experience which is subjective can be made a universal.

Of course this is a value statement and I am explaining Zeke's logic even if I do not agree with it. I am just pointing out that many "Celibate movements" throughout our real life history have left a memorable impression on the universal human species even if these "human orders" that are celibate never reproduce. Zeke believes in the power of paths which is language / relationships / etc while Eren believes in the power of paths that is DNA.

Furthermore the question of choice is involved for Eren hates the Titan power of paths for it robs you of choice because it is so powerful. But the philosophical question would change if this titan power merely shared memories and did not share the will of the person that goes with the memories. Perhaps in a different rule system you could change the meaning of your memories, you could re-contextualize them, you can fight the progenitor and make a choice different than the founding titan. This is another question the manga is asking right now with the Levi and Mikasa Ackerman.

Inb4 Zeke did nothing wrong.

Yes.

[Ramza00]

New Chapter is out!

March 2019, Chapter 115, and a whole lot of things happened!

Spoiler: Chapter 115

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So while a whole of things happened, let me zero in on one thing.

1) Levi looks dead.
2) Hange Zoe is a hostage of Yeagerists and specifically Floch Forster who is leading this group of Yeagerists.
(This is not new information we know this from previous chapters, but I am reminding myself.) Floch first battle was the Shiganshina District and he was the only one of the "new recruits" that survived that battle.
3) Hange sees Levi first and is first to reach him.
4) Floch sees Levi as a threat and should be put down immediately.
(the next is speculation but this is the only way it makes sense.)
5) Levi is alive or dead, the answer is who knows.
6) But the actions of Hange only make sense if she thinks Levi is still alive even if he is graviously injured.
7) Hange tells Floch that Levi is dead, and Hange explains that he is definately dead based off the Thunder Spear going off at point blank range and she gives a story about training accidents.
8) Hange tells this story this in order to prevent saying put a bullet in Levi's head just to be sure. Hange's manufactured story is do not desecrate the corpse for he is definitely dead.
9) Floch wants to feel Levi's pulse just to be sure.
10) The "unknown" titan makes a distraction.
11) During the distraction Hange escapes with herself and Levi's body, she does so by jumping into the water.
12) If Levi was really dead than Hange would not take the corpse with her for it would be dead weight and she is trying to escape people with horses.

13) Thus the only reasonable / logical option is Hange thinks Levi is still alive. Especially since Hange praises logic so much and she knows the stakes of the situation with her being the leader of The Survey Corps.

Sidenote these Yeagerists are sure idiots and they nothing with fighting titans. They may be wearing 3DMG gear and have the swords, but none of them when the Titan was doing weird things decide to draw a sword blade. Guns can blind titans but they can not kill a titan, so obviously these green people have no practical experience with titans, and they never took titan training seriously against the opponents as an idea.
This kind of make sense for the Guillotine should have killed all the remaining titans and the Wall People should be focused on the railroad and the people beyond the wall. Killing titans is now an arcane archaic art. And these recruits can't use critical thinking on the battlefield and realize their "learned knowledge / overlearned tactics" will not apply against a titan.

So much more happened besides these two events, and besides new information there is a continued exploration of themes, but I think that is enough words from me for now.

[Lurkmoar]

This newest chapter was real bizarre.

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Mostly because of that Titan coming out of nowhere, ripping it's abdomen up, sticking Zeke in there so he could be... joined/assmiliated? What.

[HandofShadows]

This newest chapter was real bizarre.

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Mostly because of that Titan coming out of nowhere, ripping it's abdomen up, sticking Zeke in there so he could be... joined/assmiliated? What.

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Nope so he could be healed. I'm not sure who/what caused this to happen though. As for what Eren is up to I'm still not convinced he's really sided with Zeke. Grisha treated Eren a lot differently and better than Zeke and clearly hadn't been pulling for the Eldians to take over things. But Zeke doesn't know that Grisha didn't try and "brainwash" Eren. Grisha trusted Eren to make up his own mind. Of course I am probably wrong.

[Phexar]

New chapter out!

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 116

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Man, Grior was really too dumb to live. Referring to Sasha as a Devil repeatedly right in front of Yelena who worships Zeke who's also one of those 'Devils'. She didn't mention that particular point but I'm not surprised she blew his brains out for that. Makes me wonder why he joined Zeke's coup in the first place.

The part where Armin cried at Yelena's speech... I think it fits nicely with Jean's questioning. Mikasa, Armin and Connie were all more emotionally affected by Eren but Jean currently wasn't so he was able to calmly realise that Eren probably had another motive behind his treatment of Mikasa. And then Armin cried when Yelena revealed Zeke's plan to them because combined with what Jean said and what he knew of Eren, he knew that Eren never actually betrayed them and he's instead pushing them away to protect them, that they never lost him as their friend. That's what I think anyway.

Yelena also revealed that Historia's child fits into their plan perfectly as a final backup for the possibility of carrying out the Rumbling to protect Eldians as they age and diminish in number.

Amazing sneak attack set up by Porco (and Pieck) as well, bursting through the building from underneath Eren! He came very, very close to devouring Eren whole on the spot. Nice little detail with Porco appearing in two panels in amongst all the other soldiers as Pieck and the others go up the stairs as well.

I really liked what we got to see of Pieck's character here in this chapter. She's not at all blind to what Marley is like and she does hope for Eldia's freedom one day, but she refuses to betray her friends and believes in them most of all. Her speech to Eren was so convincing because it was mostly truth with a little bit of lying mixed in (which is what we saw Pixis talk about a few chapters ago).

The part where Marley show up and where Porco shields Pieck and Gabi is portrayed more as heroic in an interesting reversal along with the final statement of "avenging Liberio". Nice staredown at the end between Eren and Reiner too.

Eren is more powerful than ever but he doesn't have Mikasa, Levi or anyone else from his squad here to help cover his back much against Reiner and Porco (and maybe Pieck though she's cuffed to Gabi right now) so things might not go as well for him. That said, I can see things getting much uglier when Zeke (along with Floch and the others) finally show up. I'm expecting Zeke to scream and turn all the wine-tainted officers into Titans to change the tide of the battle.

[HandofShadows]

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I think you right about what Eren did and he hasn't gone to the dark side. One thing to consider is that all but the Beast and Female Titians are where Eren can get them now. And he could probably get the Female anytime her wanted. I suspect that Eren has an ace up his sleeve.

[Frozen_Feet]

Do not fear,
For the real hero is here.

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I mean Reiner, of course.

[Lurkmoar]

Do not fear,
For the real hero is here.

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I mean Reiner, of course.

This is no place for a hero. *insert link to The Heavy playing Short Change Hero*

[HandofShadows]

Spoiler: New Chapter

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Well Eren vs 2 other Titians and the invading army. Against one titian Eren kicks tailbone, but all three forces overwhelm him. But he lasts juuuust long enough for the Beast Titian to show up. What is great is the utter batspit hypocrisy of the Marley titians.

[Phexar]

New chapter came out a couple days ago.

Spoiler: Manga Chapter 118

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Zeke showers the blimps in rocks to down them while Floch and the soldiers with him pursue the Cart Titan while Eren starts approaching the Beast. Nile accepts he's as good as dead if Zeke screams and comments about wishing he could have told his daughters some things before he dies.

Onyankopon lets the Survey Corps out so they can help Eren and Zeke. Connie slams him against the wall and yells at him ranting about being sick of being betrayed and wonders why they should help Eren. Onyankopon admits he and the other volunteers didn't know about the wine or the euthanasia plan and Niccolo backs him up on that as Yelena forbid them to speak to the volunteers about the wine. Onyankopon says that he really did want to help develop Paradis and defeat Marley and that children are the future and that he didn't want to euthanise Eldians and begs to be believed.

Armin speaks up and says he does believe him because Onyankopon once said that everyone exists because someone wished for them to exist and that it would be more interesting if different kinds of people existed, which is the opposite of Zeke's ideology, as he helps him to his feet. After some more talking, Armin says that he believes that Eren was lying to them all when he was being a jerk/etc, so I was right about Armin coming to that epiphany earlier. He points out that Eren is the one who ultimately has the control over the Founding Titan's power when he comes into contact with Zeke, so he would be able to lie to Zeke and Yelena so he'd be able to instead use the power to defend the island. He also says that the worlds armed forces are gathering in Marley and releasing all the wall titans from Shiganshina would be enough to wipe them out and give Paradis peace for the next 50 years. Everyone decides to leave so they can assist Eren and Zeke in coming together and fighting Marley. Mikasa however still wonders why Eren would lie and Armin thinks back to the ocean scene where Eren was talking about killing all the enemies across the sea and seems to think that over as he reassures Mikasa - he looks like he might be contemplating that Eren's going to unleash the full rumbling and cause mass genocide of everyone else instead.

Everyone else is let out of the cells except Shadis who is still too wounded to get up. Pixis instructs all the people who drank the wine to go to the front lines while everyone else gears up. Mikasa's fangirl-turned-Yeagerist Louise is happy she can fight alongside Mikasa again for this battle. Mikasa leaves her scarf behind which Louise notes. It's the first time Mikasa has ever done this I think, shows she's still very uncertain about Eren.

Outside, Yelena is watching the destruction Zeke is causing with joy as Reiner charges Eren and gets taken down with rocks. The Survey Corps are annoyed at her pointing out that Zeke must have defeated Levi to get away from him. Armin tells the whole squad to go and help Eren and Armin out, causing Yelena to loom up behind him and give him a nightmare face with her eyes boring into him before giving him a tearful smile and telling him that she trusts him and to go and help Eren and Zeke. Makes me wonder if she was suspecting that he was wondering if he was lying about something.

Nile returns Falco to Colt and Gabi without other Paradis soldiers noticing before leaving. They overhear Niccolo and the Braus family talking with Mrs Braus worrying about Gabi and Falco. As Kaya comments on hating them Gabi is brought to tears and finally admits that there are no 'devils' on the island, and that she finally understands Reiners feelings and apologises to Falco. Falco in turn admits that the attack on Liberio and the deaths of Udo and Zofia were his fault because he delivered letters for Eren, then tells her that he likes her and he became a warrior candidate to spare her from getting the Armored Titan and that he wanted her to live a long life and get to marry her, saying he was telling her this because he might become a Titan, echoing Nile's earlier conversation with him. Gabi symbolically rips his armband off echoing what he himself did earlier to her as they left.

Meanwhile, the Marley soldiers are spraying the area with gunfire as the Jaw Titan approaches Eren and gets taken down by rocks from Zeke as well. Just then Zeke looks over and spots the corpse of the Cart Titan steaming away as Floch and friends approach it in victory... but then they realise they don't know who actually defeated it as they get peppered with more gunfire. It's then revealed that it's a trick and Pieck left her titan to give Magath a surprise shot on Zeke which blows out some of his human right arm and a good bit of the Beast's nape. The Beast then falls from the wall, in a parallel scene to Eren and Armin's trick against the Colossal Titan.

As Zeke is lying there, Magath realises he can't focus fire to finish Zeke off and that in such a critical condition, Zeke will unleash his titanising scream for sure...

[Cen]

Is it just me not really remembring which ones are eldians and marleyans and having to read wiki every chapter to remember what's going on?
This manga went weird …

[Kato]

Is it just me not really remembring which ones are eldians and marleyans and having to read wiki every chapter to remember what's going on?
This manga went weird …

Really? I mean, I certainly don't know half the names anymore but despite my problems with the art at times I can usually recognize most people.

Also, eff you Armin. Yes, you might be right but you're staking the fate of hundreds of people on your trust in an impulsive, backstabbing, murderous jerk. I thought you're supposed to be the smart one.

And if Zeke actually stops his lifelong plan because he doesn't want to turn one kid I think someone wasted their life.

[Lurkmoar]

And if Zeke actually stops his lifelong plan because he doesn't want to turn one kid I think someone wasted their life.

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For maximum irony points, Falco gets Titanized and then eats Gabi.