Questionable Content 10: La Li Lu Le Lo

[Tvtyrant]

I doubt spookybot is intended to be a role model.

The deity stand-in who just fixed the entire subplot is supposed to be seen negatively? I don't think so, at the very least Jeff has indicated that the subject is neutral, if that was not a full blown endorsement.

[Traab]

Im hoping the next few comics involve punchbot rehiring faye and bubbles to the new, legal robot fighting ring. I thought that was a pretty cool job, all things considered.

[Lethologica]

The deity stand-in who just fixed the entire subplot is supposed to be seen negatively? I don't think so, at the very least Jeff has indicated that the subject is neutral, if that was not a full blown endorsement.

On the other hand, it's a post-Singularity ineffable being with self-admittedly few scruples and a fondness for torturing people it doesn't like. Your argument for disliking this development because "a positive character is doing bad things" hinges on a bizarrely specific interpretation of what was and wasn't intended or indicated.

[Vinyadan]

To me, Squidbot looks more like a problem incoming than a good thing happening. We don't know why she was interested in Bubbles, but we know that she can affect humans and bots alike. We know that she has very few moral rules, but we don't know which they are. We don't even know why she is punishing Witch, or why she is setting the fighting ring to continue through a legal version.

More than Deus ex machina, I'd call her Sword of Damocles, and this may very well not be a resolution.

[Rysto]

To me, Squidbot looks more like a problem incoming than a good thing happening. We don't know why she was interested in Bubbles, but we know that she can affect humans and bots alike. We know that she has very few moral rules, but we don't know which they are. We don't even know why she is punishing Witch, or why she is setting the fighting ring to continue through a legal version.

More than Deus ex machina, I'd call her Sword of Damocles, and this may very well not be a resolution.

I think that you're overthinking it. DEM is just a lame plot device. That's why its motivations are inscrutable: because plot devices, unlike characters, don't need motivations.

[PhantomFox]

I think that you're overthinking it. DEM is just a lame plot device. That's why its motivations are inscrutable: because plot devices, unlike characters, don't need motivations.

But that's the thing... if Spookybot is just a plot device, why introduce them in the first place? As has been mentioned already, Spookybot could have been swapped out with Station in the story narrative rather effortlessly, but instead Station was explicitly unable to assist in order to force Spookybot's debut in the story. There is no reason to introduce this character if it's ONLY function was to resolve the plotline. I can only conclude that Spookybot is not a plot device; it's a PLAYER in the story. It's not nice, it's not friendly, and if it's solving all the problems now, that's because of a whim (being inspired by Bubbles' restraint). And in fact, we're shown it has no qualms about doing anything it feels like due to its "very VERY few moral principles". The impression I get is that it comes across like a Villain whose goals just so happened to line up with the protagonists for now. But it won't let these events get in the way of doing what it wants if by fate they were ever to find themselves on opposing sides.

[Morquard]

Just to make it clear. In 3390 Hanners informed Faye that Station couldn't do it. In 3391 Spooky showed up the first time.

That's leads me to believe, that Jeph didn't have Station do it, because he wanted to use Spooky for it. So unless he changed his mind between those two strips (I believe there was a weekend between them), he didn't need to introduce a DEM plot device.

As to why, I'm still not sure. The comic isn't really a superhero or safe-the-world comic, so introducing a super-villain makes no sense really.

[eee]

This is interesting. Roko apparently doesn't know what Spookybot is, but Bubbles does. I wonder how that's possible. Maybe Roko is just a kid and hasn't learned about what's beyond the reef's boundaries.

I still haven't given up the idea they know each other from before, although it's looking dubious.

[Dorath]

This is interesting. Roko apparently doesn't know what Spookybot is, but Bubbles does. I wonder how that's possible. Maybe Roko is just a kid and hasn't learned about what's beyond the reef's boundaries.

I still haven't given up the idea they know each other from before, although it's looking dubious.

Bubbles is also a military AI with an unknown amount of time working for an illegal fighting ring. Much more time to hear about things than a rookie cop.

[Vinyadan]

Maybe Bubble's squad was killed by Squidbot. She just doesn't remember it was her because of the memory wipe. Which would explain the interest for a backup.

[Morquard]

This is interesting. Roko apparently doesn't know what Spookybot is, but Bubbles does. I wonder how that's possible. Maybe Roko is just a kid and hasn't learned about what's beyond the reef's boundaries.

I still haven't given up the idea they know each other from before, although it's looking dubious.

Well there's also the difference that Spookybot sorta explained what they can do, and then simply assumed Bubbles would connect the dots. They didn't say anything to Basilisk.

[Rysto]

Just to make it clear. In 3390 Hanners informed Faye that Station couldn't do it. In 3391 Spooky showed up the first time.

That's leads me to believe, that Jeph didn't have Station do it, because he wanted to use Spooky for it. So unless he changed his mind between those two strips (I believe there was a weekend between them), he didn't need to introduce a DEM plot device.

As to why, I'm still not sure. The comic isn't really a superhero or safe-the-world comic, so introducing a super-villain makes no sense really.

If the rest of the writing in the plotline had been well done, I'd be more inclined to this point. I've thought the same thing myself: why not have Station fill the role? I suspect that Jeph was trying to establish just how darn hopeless the situation was. Yes, that's heavy-handed writing ... but that's exactly how everything in this plot line has gone down. I'm not expecting anything interesting to come out of this because so far Jeph hasn't shown me an ounce of interesting storytelling throughout this plotline.

[AdmiralCheez]

I recently (couple months ago) started reading this comic, and finished a full archive read around the time Bubbles was introduced. So I'm glad the long-time readers are finding this arc unsatisfying as well, and it's not just the pacing drop from 20-30 pages a day to 1 a day. I was getting concerned that I might have to stop reading and catch up in chunks.

[Cikomyr]

I always felt QC's to be subpar event-driven storylines, but instead offers solid and natural character evolution and progression.

Look at Bubble's character development since she met Fayes. We can see a slow but certain buildup of trust and support between the two characters. The same way we saw Dora and Marten's relationship being slowly eroded over time, its inevitability being evident once the journey is complete.

[AdmiralCheez]

Yeah, I would agree the character development is definitely the comic's strong point. But the weird, out-of-place sci-fi plotlines (like this one) and the obscure indie-rock band discussions I would say are the lower points. At least, that's my opinion anyway.

I mean, I love a good sci-fi story on the philosophy of AI and what it means to be sentient, but it just doesn't work for me here because the story is otherwise about a bunch of 20-somethings that hang out in a coffee shop and try to adapt to life. It's just a jarring shift of tone and story concept, and it feels out of place. That's not to say it's bad; just.... weird and unexpected.

[The Glyphstone]

Though the weird sci-fi elements have been around for most of the comic's run, at least. Remember when the FBI agent came to confiscate Pintsize's chassis because it had a military grade laser in it?

[AvatarVecna]

Though the weird sci-fi elements have been around for most of the comic's run, at least. Remember when the FBI agent came to confiscate Pintsize's chassis because it had a military grade laser in it?

The existence of sci-fi elements that are occasionally relevant to the plot is a very different thing from having a plot that revolves entirely around exploring the ethics and morality of AI-adjacent activities, to the point that arguments about in-comic things are at risk of stumbling into real-world political discussions surrounding AIs.

[dps]

I'm really hoping that Jeph has something really interesting in mind for DEM/Spookybot/whatever, because otherwise the character's introduction to the comic was just a deus ex machina resolution to a plot line.

[AdmiralCheez]

Though the weird sci-fi elements have been around for most of the comic's run, at least. Remember when the FBI agent came to confiscate Pintsize's chassis because it had a military grade laser in it?

Yeah, but that was treated as a quick, goofy, comedy bit that was over and done with in a few strips. It didn't leave any lasting repercussions that weren't also used as quick comedy bits. Plus, it fit in with Pintsize's character of having ridiculous things happen with few to no consequences.

[rooster707]

Yeah, but that was treated as a quick, goofy, comedy bit that was over and done with in a few strips. It didn't leave any lasting repercussions that weren't also used as quick comedy bits. Plus, it fit in with Pintsize's character of having ridiculous things happen with few to no consequences.

Remember the time they went into space and met the most powerful AI on the planet that exists?

[AdmiralCheez]

Remember the time they went into space and met the most powerful AI on the planet that exists?

Yeah, I thought that was a little out-there too. A couple fantastical things here and there can make a story interesting, but when you keep introducing these major setting-altering concepts, like advanced orbital space stations with casual space travel, and all-powerful AIs that could bring down nations, it makes the setting feel inconsistent.

So I have to wonder - what is this comic even about anymore? Marten and his gang of social misfits hanging out in coffee shops and overcoming their personal problems, or the secret world of all-powerful AIs with free will and the limited impacts of super-science?

[Tvtyrant]

Though the weird sci-fi elements have been around for most of the comic's run, at least. Remember when the FBI agent came to confiscate Pintsize's chassis because it had a military grade laser in it?

And then the main characters assaulted him with no consequences? And Steve was abducted and forced into being a suoer spy.

Although with entities like these around what is the point of human scientists? We are already dranatically inferior to our creation.

[Traab]

Yeah, I thought that was a little out-there too. A couple fantastical things here and there can make a story interesting, but when you keep introducing these major setting-altering concepts, like advanced orbital space stations with casual space travel, and all-powerful AIs that could bring down nations, it makes the setting feel inconsistent.

So I have to wonder - what is this comic even about anymore? Marten and his gang of social misfits hanging out in coffee shops and overcoming their personal problems, or the secret world of all-powerful AIs with free will and the limited impacts of super-science?

Too be fair, the existence of said space station was well established early on with hannerlore and her back story. So visiting it wasnt totally random. This is also a universe where people randomly channel eldritch horrors from beyond space and time, ais can switch bodies anywhere from military jets to toasters at will (more or less) basically, LOTS of random fantastic crap takes place. As was mentioned, steve becomes a secret agent with a mysterious past, one of the early characters was eaten by a dinosaur, the list goes on. I think the only reason so many object to this is its taking longer than usual and has a more lasting impact. Visiting the space station was done pretty much only to establish how much BETTER hannerlore is now, the random eldritch abominations are one panel "jokes" same for steve and his history. This story line though, solved major character problems so its a bit more impactful than usual.

[AdmiralCheez]

Too be fair, the existence of said space station was well established early on with hannerlore and her back story. So visiting it wasnt totally random. This is also a universe where people randomly channel eldritch horrors from beyond space and time, ais can switch bodies anywhere from military jets to toasters at will (more or less) basically, LOTS of random fantastic crap takes place. As was mentioned, steve becomes a secret agent with a mysterious past, one of the early characters was eaten by a dinosaur, the list goes on. I think the only reason so many object to this is its taking longer than usual and has a more lasting impact. Visiting the space station was done pretty much only to establish how much BETTER hannerlore is now, the random eldritch abominations are one panel "jokes" same for steve and his history. This story line though, solved major character problems so its a bit more impactful than usual.

Those are fair points. But like you said, most of those were used as one-off jokes. They don't necessarily establish that as a major part of the setting, or even leave lasting effects on the characters (with the exception of the space station, but that wasn't exactly a joke). It's not like secret agents or eldritch horrors are now the main focus of the comic. This whole spookybot/missing memory arc essentially stuck around so long, it shifted the story to a new genre. After all these pages about underground robot fighting leagues, AI conspiracies, a police investigation, etc., it seems like the story almost has to change focus or feel like it was all for nothing. If Spookybot just resolves all of these plotlines and then disappears forever, then what was the point of this story? To get Bubbles to join the gang? There are way easier ways to do that that don't involve a Deus Ex Machina ending.

[Traab]

Those are fair points. But like you said, most of those were used as one-off jokes. They don't necessarily establish that as a major part of the setting, or even leave lasting effects on the characters (with the exception of the space station, but that wasn't exactly a joke). It's not like secret agents or eldritch horrors are now the main focus of the comic. This whole spookybot/missing memory arc essentially stuck around so long, it shifted the story to a new genre. After all these pages about underground robot fighting leagues, AI conspiracies, a police investigation, etc., it seems like the story almost has to change focus or feel like it was all for nothing. If Spookybot just resolves all of these plotlines and then disappears forever, then what was the point of this story? To get Bubbles to join the gang? There are way easier ways to do that that don't involve a Deus Ex Machina ending.

Its possible he didnt have a quick and easy method handy that he liked and didnt want to go into a long drawn out court battle between corrupt cops and corpse witch versus bubbles and faye plus whoever they got to back them up. So he tossed out a quick, "This solves the memory issue, this solves the corpse witch issue, this solves the fighting ring issue." and now we have our new character as a member of the main cast without anything dangerous hanging over her head, and if things go as I expect, faye will no longer be doing illegal work under the table to make ends meet. Instead she and bubbles will be legal employees of the now registered robot fighting ring. Now its back to the "normal" stuff.

[Morquard]

Well as was pointed out, the very strip before introducing Spookybot he had Station say (via Hanners) that he couldn't help. It could just have been "I confered with my colleagues and we think we can help you".

Or he could have handled it "They threaten to reveal everything (or have some other blackmail material), and CW unlocks the memory, which wasn't actually deleted".

It makes NO sense at all to introduce Spookybot as a Deus Ex Machina to get him out of a hole he wrote himself in, since there were plenty of ways out, really. The only reason they were introduced is to play a bigger role somehow.

[Keltest]

Its possible that he didn't want to use Station, specifically, as a resolution to this plot because it would beg the question of why he doesn't go around solving every problem Hanners (and by extension, the rest of the cast) has. Having the solution come from an outside source means it cant be relied on to solve future problems and doesn't need to explain why it didn't solve past problems.

I agree, its a pretty dumb corner to have written himself into, but I can understand why he wouldn't want this solution, specifically, to be used.

[Morquard]

To be totally honest: Hanners mom is like a super-billionaire corp woman, her dad is super-science-dad who INVENTED the AIs and owns a space station. She has enough money to throw around to make nearly every problem go away, yet she doesn't. Station is one of the most advanced AIs there are, who apparently has access to orbital missiles. I'm fairly sure he is quite capable of pretty much solving every problem already.

So I really don't see how "Me and 20 other super AIs have to work together to do this, but we can do it" would have changed that status quo.

[Flickerdart]

Most problems the QC gang faces can't be solved with orbital bombardment. For example, Dora's insecurity, or Faye's alcoholism, or Pintsize's lack of opposable thumbs.

[Rodin]

Most problems the QC gang faces can't be solved with orbital bombardment. For example, Dora's insecurity, or Faye's alcoholism, or Pintsize's lack of opposable thumbs.

I misread that as "can be solved with orbital bombardment".

...I think I like my version better. Cheer up, Faye! BOOM! Opposable thumb THIS!