Questionable Content 10: La Li Lu Le Lo

[AvatarVecna]

So you think if I walk up to a female co-worker and tell her "Hey, I need you to take off your shirt", it would be ok, because I can say "Hey, I thought she might be cool with it. That makes it alright, doesn't it?"

Wow, you read an awful lot of assholishness into my statement. Just in case you're the kind of person who's actually that thick though: whether you think they'll be okay with it is irrelevent, what matters is if they're actually okay with it. If they're not okay with it, it's definitely sexual harrassment; if they are okay with it, the illegality of it is much fuzzier.

In the same way that it isn't theft when I take someones stuff but they don't mind. Though even if he is that doesn't necessarily stop it from being work place inappropriate.

Once agai, a person who twists the situation into something completely different to paint me as an *******. A more accurate comparison would be if you asked to borrow their [whatever object]; if they don't mind, they'll say so, and then it's borrowing; if they do mind, and you take it anyway, that's theft.

For both of you judgemental ****s, I wanna make it clear that I think Elliot will end up minding, and that this will end up being sexual harassment. I'm just saying that he has yet to actually state a preference, or even give a reaction other than surprise to this unexpected situation, and assuming he's going to react negatively (while I agree it's my assumption as well) is still nothing more than our assumption of how he's going to respond. It's like calling an incident of sexual intercourse "rape" before you've even asked the two people involved if they consented.

[Ibrinar]

Anyway, @Traab that surely is meant to be suggested by it coming after the previous page but I find it more likely that it is deliberate misdirection and the reason is something else. I guess it could be really that but while annoying I don't think she would choose a route that dumb and suggest it so casually.

[Flickerdart]

My guess was going with, "Lets see if I AM interested in him. I would drool if he went shirtless, right?" As for the sexual harassment, its a bit of a false comparison because a guy can be topless in a large number of scenarios without it being considered sexual.

Your first sentence contradicts the second one - if this scenario is explicitly sexual, then the fact that other non-sexual scenarios exist is irrelevant.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Your first sentence contradicts the second one - if this scenario is explicitly sexual, then the fact that other non-sexual scenarios exist is irrelevant.

More broadly, when it comes to sexual harassment in the workplace, the appearance of sexual intent (or any other impropriety) is sufficient. Even if there is consent of both parties, a half-decent HR person will put an immediate end to it. Uber notwithstanding.

GW

[John Cribati]

In the real world, in a vacuum, this would be sexual harassment, bar none.

But this is QC-Ville, where Hanners stalked Marten into becoming her friend and Steve became friends with a complete stranger because they randomly bumped into each other the street and immediately started swapping dead body (and possibly necrophilia?) jokes.

Renee and Elliott at least know each other already so it's kind of up in the air.

[Traab]

Your first sentence contradicts the second one - if this scenario is explicitly sexual, then the fact that other non-sexual scenarios exist is irrelevant.

Um.... no? My first couple sentences were about what I guessed off the top of my head was going on. My other sentences were about why telling a guy to take his shirt off and telling a girl to take her shirt off arent the same thing all the time. Yes it absolutely CAN be sexual harassment, but its not automatically because shirtless guys do not equal shirtless girls. Its one of a million double standards that exist in this day and age. A guy can have a couple dozen legit reasons to go topless in public and not be arrested for it. Women? Not so much.

[IthilanorStPete]

People are saying, "Sexual harassment". I'm thinking, "New uniform" or some other innocuous explanation. Renee's not my favorite character, but trying to ogle the Elliot Chest for cheap thrills doesn't strike me as her style.

I'm really going that's what this is, and it's just a Wacky Sitcom Hijinks joke that landed poorly. If it's not, this is definitely uncomfortable at the very least.

[John Cribati]

A guy can have a couple dozen legit reasons to go topless in public and not be arrested for it. Women? Not so much.

Pardon my feminism, but a woman can decide to go topless for exactly the same reasons that a man can, and actually has one legitimate reason to slip out a nip that (most) men don't.

The societal response to a topless woman is the problem, not the topless woman in and of herself.

[Qwertystop]

Pardon my feminism, but a woman can decide to go topless for exactly the same reasons that a man can, and actually has one legitimate reason to slip out a nip that (most) men don't.

The societal response to a topless woman is the problem, not the topless woman in and of herself.

True. Unfortunately, societal standards (and laws that trace back to them, in many places) influence the meaning of the qualifier "legit" in the post you responded to. Public leering, disgust, mockery, and the possibility of being fined and/or arrested may all weigh on whether or not a reason is a "legit" reason.

The double standard isn't a good thing, but it does exist.

[Traab]

True. Unfortunately, societal standards (and laws that trace back to them, in many places) influence the meaning of the qualifier "legit" in the post you responded to. Public leering, disgust, mockery, and the possibility of being fined and/or arrested may all weigh on whether or not a reason is a "legit" reason.

The double standard isn't a good thing, but it does exist.

This basically, I was speaking of the legality. Breast feeding is a different matter entirely and at least around here is totally legal even if some people still tend to freak out over it like idiots, but im talking about full scale nothing on up top activity. A guy can take off everything above the waist and go out to mow his lawn. A woman does that and she can be fined. Is it a double standard? Of course, does that mean it shouldnt exist? Meh, I dont care if that double standard goes away, what matters is, it does still exist and thus asking a woman to take her shirt off is different from asking a guy to take his shirt off.

[John Cribati]

... it's actually not as common as you think.

Spoiler: I'm not sure how big this image is on desktop so spoilered for safety

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All these green states allow shirtlessness (within certain contexts of course) regardless of sex.

I'm not sure who would want to be shirtless in Alaska, but I suppose it's the principle of the thing.

[Cikomyr]

But lets not kid ourselves into thinking for a second that women are usually being the subject of much, much, much, much more sexual harassment and objectification than the great majority of men.

Just look a video of a woman walking down the street with the counter of how many leering comment she has to go through.

I aint saying this somehow makes Rene's actions all right. But there is a reason for the double standard.

[John Cribati]

I never denied it. Men in general need to do better when it comes to this sort of thing.

[Yana]

Why did we need this plotline?

[Traab]

Man this is pretty stupid. I mean, I know I called it and all but geez it makes no sense. If she had the hots for him before she got the chance to see his manly bod, why did she need to see it to confirm it? Is it just more evident now that she realizes she finds him sexy? I mean, speaking objectively, I can understand why she likes him, but this was just unneeded.

[John Cribati]

Yeah, doesn't everyone experience and process sexual attraction in the exact same way?

*sarcastically points to my avatar*

(Not that I think the resulting situation is any less stupid, mind you)

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm morbidly amused and curious. Like watching a car crash.

[AvatarVecna]

I'm morbidly amused and curious. Like watching a car crash.

Car crashes get less morbidly fascinating when you know and like everybody in the car other than the driver, and then even less when you realize the driver crashed on purpose.

...the metaphor probably broke down somewhere in there. The point I was trying to make is that at this point Renee's child-like motivations and actions are dragging down a pretty great comic, made worse by the fact that I keep getting a horrible feeling that we're supposed to either like her or at least mildly empathize with her.

[Ibrinar]

So it really was that… Damn.

[eee]

Ha, I was wrong, she WAS after cheap thrills. Or rather, seeing if seeing Elliot shirtless GAVE her cheap thrills, and a tingling sensation.

Apparently it does.

This could get... interesting...

[Beelzebub1111]

Maybe he was hoping he'd be fat and doughy underneath the shirt and she could stop being attracted to him instead of being full bearmode.


And, I mean, he's nice. He clearly takes care of himself. He totally deserves better than her.

[Cikomyr]

I think its more that if she really was infatuated with him, seeing him shirtless would provoke a reaction she couldnt control.

Its less of a "is he actually hot?" And more of a "is he actually having an effect on me?"

[Beelzebub1111]

I really just can't help imagining this whole aituation gender reversed and it makes me furious.

Think about it all other factors the same, and you'd be enraged! I really hope that she doesn't get off easy.

[IthilanorStPete]

Can someone tell me when this storyline is over, or if it really improves all of a sudden? I'd rather not read the comic until it's done.

[Cikomyr]

Can someone tell me when this storyline is over, or if it really improves all of a sudden? I'd rather not read the comic until it's done.

It still scores more interesting than everyone whining about it.

[AvatarVecna]

Can someone tell me when this storyline is over, or if it really improves all of a sudden? I'd rather not read the comic until it's done.

I'll make a note and send you a PM.

It still scores more interesting than everyone whining about it.

Yeah, the appropriate response to a thing you like doing a thing you don't like is to look down awkwardly, not say anything, and pretend the bad thing never happened, that way you never have to insinuate that you ever liked something that was flawed.

EDIT: Not to mention, of course, deriding those stupid morons who dare insult its perfection.

[Rodin]

Hm, now things might get interesting.

Spoiler

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If Jim lays the smackdown, the storyline will become a lot more forgiveable. Plus, y'know, Jim Smackdown.

[Keltest]

I already like Jim in general. Displeased Manager Jim promises to make it even better

[Morquard]

Oh, looks like Sam has a cold. Hope she gets better.

Also Jim looks pissed. Good.

[eee]

When dealing with a tsundere female, being a sub is the safest course.

Yes, the 'babe' comment suggests it's Veronica taking care of Sam and not the other way around. Which would actually be cuter.