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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    My GM set up a situation for the party. Various corruptions (not related to Horror Adventures) that have started to warp the party members into something... else. We managed to solve one of them. Due to circumstances, the Bladebound Magus had his Black Blade destroyed. This has removed his corruption, and he is more or less "whole" again.

    That just leaves me and the Shaman left with corruptions. The Shaman is okay for now, aside from having no flesh on his forearms and a Paralyzing touch. But my Paladin now has a constant Life Drain effect that takes off 2 HP a day that can't be healed or regenerated normally. There is one way to overcome this. The GM has given my paladin the ability "Premeditated Murder Healing".

    My paladin regains 1d8 HP for every sentient creature murdered with an INT of 3 or higher. This effect activates whenever my paladin directly murders someone or arranges a situation that causes someone's death in the presence of the paladin. Evil outsiders and other enemies in combat will not activate the ability.

    My paladin is not about to become a serial killer. He has 140 HP at Level 10. That means he has 70 days to resolve this before he gets down to 0 HP. So I'm starting to feel a little pigeonholed at the moment.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Madokar View Post
    My GM set up a situation for the party. Various corruptions (not related to Horror Adventures) that have started to warp the party members into something... else. We managed to solve one of them. Due to circumstances, the Bladebound Magus had his Black Blade destroyed. This has removed his corruption, and he is more or less "whole" again.

    That just leaves me and the Shaman left with corruptions. The Shaman is okay for now, aside from having no flesh on his forearms and a Paralyzing touch. But my Paladin now has a constant Life Drain effect that takes off 2 HP a day that can't be healed or regenerated normally. There is one way to overcome this. The GM has given my paladin the ability "Premeditated Murder Healing".

    My paladin regains 1d8 HP for every sentient creature murdered with an INT of 3 or higher. This effect activates whenever my paladin directly murders someone or arranges a situation that causes someone's death in the presence of the paladin. Evil outsiders and other enemies in combat will not activate the ability.

    My paladin is not about to become a serial killer. He has 140 HP at Level 10. That means he has 70 days to resolve this before he gets down to 0 HP. So I'm starting to feel a little pigeonholed at the moment.
    5 things to tell you.

    0) More important than anything else here, know that you cannot solve OOC problems with IC actions. Your DM is either unaware of how unfun this combo is for you, and they know and are being a ****. The former can be solved by communication and compromise, the latter can be solved by walking away from the table and refusing to play with that ****.

    1) Your DM is almost certainly a giant butthole. I know the old saying goes something like "why attribute to malice what is likely the fault of ignorance", but even if this is just your DM being dense and not realizing how problematic this is for your paladin, it's a pretty big screw-up...made worse by the fact that it's probably intentionally difficult.

    2) Your Paladin does not have access to his character sheet, and thus has no idea of any new "abilities" unless he observes them somehow in-game. He might have some sixth sense whispering in his ear to murder folks, but until he actually murders folks and receives healing for his previously-unhealable wounds.

    3) Making the ability not activate when you kill enemies is an even bigger butthole move, especially because it could lead to interesting roleplaying: if your paladin knew of this healing ability, would they be willing to go on a goblin-killing crusade, claiming to do it because it's holy and righteous but knowing inside that they're partially doing it to avoid dying? I think that kind of character conflict would be interesting, particularly since in that case it provides the Paladin with some kind of in-combat healing. Making it so it doesn't trigger by enemy deaths just means your DM literally wants your Paladin to murder innocents.

    4) Committing murder would make your Paladin fall, which means either retiring the character or respeccing as a Blackguard and enjoying your new murder-based healing forevermore.

    5) If your paladin knew that murdering the innocent would heal his otherwise-incurable and gradually-worsening wounds, I imagine that a truly dedicated Paladin would retire himself Samurai-style.


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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    I'm inclined to agree with Vec on this'un. One of two things has happened so far as we can readily judge; your DM has no idea how a Paladin's Code of Conduct works, in which case "why the flying hell is he the DM" is my primary concern. Alternatively, your DM does not want you to play a Paladin but has decided that, rather than simply telling you that you can't play a Paladin, he will go the coward's route and try to make you stop wanting to play a Paladin. In that scenario the primary concern is thanking his lucky stars that it isn't me that he's pulling that crap with, because I'd deck the turd with his own DMG for it.

    Judging by the fact that he let the Magus go after you broke his Black Blade (IE, after you removed one of his key class features), I'm willing to bet it's in the ballpark of the latter. In which case I hope for your DM's sake that he's got something frickin' amazing up his sleeve for when everybody around has lost their class abilities, because he has no reason to expect people to stick around his table otherwise.
    Last edited by Erit; 2016-11-03 at 09:36 PM.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    5 things to tell you.

    0) More important than anything else here, know that you cannot solve OOC problems with IC actions. Your DM is either unaware of how unfun this combo is for you, and they know and are being a ****. The former can be solved by communication and compromise, the latter can be solved by walking away from the table and refusing to play with that ****.

    1) Your DM is almost certainly a giant butthole. I know the old saying goes something like "why attribute to malice what is likely the fault of ignorance", but even if this is just your DM being dense and not realizing how problematic this is for your paladin, it's a pretty big screw-up...made worse by the fact that it's probably intentionally difficult.

    2) Your Paladin does not have access to his character sheet, and thus has no idea of any new "abilities" unless he observes them somehow in-game. He might have some sixth sense whispering in his ear to murder folks, but until he actually murders folks and receives healing for his previously-unhealable wounds.

    3) Making the ability not activate when you kill enemies is an even bigger butthole move, especially because it could lead to interesting roleplaying: if your paladin knew of this healing ability, would they be willing to go on a goblin-killing crusade, claiming to do it because it's holy and righteous but knowing inside that they're partially doing it to avoid dying? I think that kind of character conflict would be interesting, particularly since in that case it provides the Paladin with some kind of in-combat healing. Making it so it doesn't trigger by enemy deaths just means your DM literally wants your Paladin to murder innocents.

    4) Committing murder would make your Paladin fall, which means either retiring the character or respeccing as a Blackguard and enjoying your new murder-based healing forevermore.

    5) If your paladin knew that murdering the innocent would heal his otherwise-incurable and gradually-worsening wounds, I imagine that a truly dedicated Paladin would retire himself Samurai-style.
    The DM gave his Paladin player a problem with three ways out:
    A)Murder innocents and fall.
    B)Find the corruption and purge it.
    C)Suicide.

    Personally, I find this AMAZING. Its a challenge. Yeah, sure, the PC could die, but that's just like any other day in D&D-land. What's interesting is that the DM is putting the player into a mindset where he actually has a temptation to fall, but isn't forcing the fall on him. This is, imho, good DMing, not bad.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    The DM gave his Paladin player a problem with three ways out:
    A)Murder innocents and fall.
    B)Find the corruption and purge it.
    C)Suicide.

    Personally, I find this AMAZING. Its a challenge. Yeah, sure, the PC could die, but that's just like any other day in D&D-land. What's interesting is that the DM is putting the player into a mindset where he actually has a temptation to fall, but isn't forcing the fall on him. This is, imho, good DMing, not bad.
    Except that "character death" is oftentimes a false option to a puzzle, and "cleansing the corruption" in this could be anything from "attempt to kill an innocent but refrain at the last minute" to "shoot the moon at high noon". Without being McCree.

    "Temptation" is providing an easy way out that goes against a character's principles. This is not that. This is very much equivalent to holding a gun to their head and saying "Break your principles or die meaninglessly." To do so is very much a cowardly way of telling a member of the table to stop playing a character they have very obviously come to enjoy. Were he playing Pun-Pun I could side with the DM, but for wrath's sake he's a Paladin; there's a 60% chance at minimum he isn't exactly dominating every aspect of the campaign.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    I have been contemplating following the Eighth Act of Iomedae:

    The Eighth Act
    Convincing the graveknight known as the Black Prince to throw himself upon his sword as punishment for his evil is considered Iomedae's Eighth Act. This righteous suicide redeemed the undead knight's soul and allowed him to be judged in the Halls of Aroden.

    If I need to give my life to save others, then I readily make that sacrifice.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Madokar View Post
    I have been contemplating following the Eighth Act of Iomedae:

    The Eighth Act
    Convincing the graveknight known as the Black Prince to throw himself upon his sword as punishment for his evil is considered Iomedae's Eighth Act. This righteous suicide redeemed the undead knight's soul and allowed him to be judged in the Halls of Aroden.

    If I need to give my life to save others, then I readily make that sacrifice.
    I would play along for the moment. The simple solution to the problem would be removing the corruption, which you have done earlier on eventhough it was a different challenge probably. Though I would press the matter to the party, considering your daily HP damage and seek the cure for that corruption hastily.

    Up to 20 days you should be holding up, though after that point (losing 1/3 of your hp almost) things would get pretty rough for a melee, especially against tough fights (CR +2 and above) and big monster which can hit hard. Notify the party that you won't be at your full strength for the upcoming days, and reconsider your tactics around your new HP.

    All in all, it seems an interesting setup to me. Much depends on how it is handled, but if the DM wants you to find a cure and it is not especially very difficult, this might breed an interesting adventure for a short time.

    I would to try to enjoy the game before jumping to the conclusions. Give it a 3-4 sessions (or less depending on your schedule) before making harsh decisions. Not every DM who tries something out of box is out there to make you quit your character. However, I would admit not every DM who presses challenges like this is after the enjoyment as a group as well.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    I second that without dang good evidence, the DM is being a massive prick and targeting everyone in the party's class feature; the campaign premise is some form of Pyrrhic quest of saving the world but dying forgotten and useless in the process.

    The bladebound magus had to destroy their black blade, your paladin has to fall (and lose all class features) or die, and I can guess it is a matter of time before the shaman has to kill and eat their familiar, which also takes away their spells.

    At least you have the option of going blackguard/antipaladin and getting your powers back. I would guess that your DM is not expecting you to regain the evil version of your powers, and might FIAT this. Has the magus gotten another black blade or are they just left hamstrung? How much faith do you have in your DM to know this is temporary?
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Geddy2112 View Post
    I second that without dang good evidence, the DM is being a massive prick and targeting everyone in the party's class feature; the campaign premise is some form of Pyrrhic quest of saving the world but dying forgotten and useless in the process.

    The bladebound magus had to destroy their black blade, your paladin has to fall (and lose all class features) or die, and I can guess it is a matter of time before the shaman has to kill and eat their familiar, which also takes away their spells.

    At least you have the option of going blackguard/antipaladin and getting your powers back. I would guess that your DM is not expecting you to regain the evil version of your powers, and might FIAT this. Has the magus gotten another black blade or are they just left hamstrung? How much faith do you have in your DM to know this is temporary?
    After the Magus performed the ritual to get his Black Blade back, he was freed of the corruption, his Black Blade became a White Blade, and the Sword got a better disposition as a result. The Magus also has gleaned some knowledge about the corruptions by performing the ritual.

    The Shaman is slowly becoming undead. He became gaunt (the GM specifically showed pictures of Holocaust survivors to give an idea of what the Shaman is looking like), developed a black ichor instead of blood, and now has no flesh on his forearms. As a result of the latest corruption for the Shaman, he now has a lich's Paralyzing Touch ability.

    As for my paladin, he's developed Infernal/ Abyssal traits. At level 10, my paladin has large wings with 60 ft fly speed and poor maneuverability. There are other bonuses, like a +2 bonus to STR and CON, Acid Resist 15, Regen 5, and a +4 bonus to FORT saves to overcome Poison effects.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Are you allowed to use 3.5 material? If so, you have the solution already. Just cast Door to Great Evil. Hopefully your friends can teleport after you, but otherwise, it seems like you don't have any other solution that's not plot-based (besides hara-kiri).

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by GilesTheCleric View Post
    Are you allowed to use 3.5 material? If so, you have the solution already. Just cast Door to Great Evil. Hopefully your friends can teleport after you, but otherwise, it seems like you don't have any other solution that's not plot-based (besides hara-kiri).
    How does that solve anything?

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Madokar View Post
    How does that solve anything?
    Door to Great Evil teleports you directly to the plot.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by GilesTheCleric View Post
    Door to Great Evil teleports you directly to the plot.
    I looked up the spell, and it doesn't say anything like that.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Madokar View Post
    I looked up the spell, and it doesn't say anything like that.
    "you are automatically transported to the nearest location on the same plane where your talents as a holy soldier are needed"

    As a DM, I can confirm, that's exactly what it says.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    "you are automatically transported to the nearest location on the same plane where your talents as a holy soldier are needed"

    As a DM, I can confirm, that's exactly what it says.
    Right, but there is no guarantee that it will be a situation related to my corruption. That part is subject to my GM's approval.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Honestly?

    I vote you remain a Paladin, do the right thing, try your darndest to find a way out of the corruption that doesn't require you to murder people, and if worse comes to worse die in 70 days.

    Don't use your abyssal/infernal ability, don't use your wings, don't (actively) use your resistances by stepping into a fire or anything. Just be your Paladin, do the right thing - as otherwise, you're more or less letting the corruption win.

    Worst case scenario, you die a Paladin.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    5 things to tell you.

    0) More important than anything else here, know that you cannot solve OOC problems with IC actions. Your DM is either unaware of how unfun this combo is for you, and they know and are being a ****. The former can be solved by communication and compromise, the latter can be solved by walking away from the table and refusing to play with that ****.

    1) Your DM is almost certainly a giant butthole. I know the old saying goes something like "why attribute to malice what is likely the fault of ignorance", but even if this is just your DM being dense and not realizing how problematic this is for your paladin, it's a pretty big screw-up...made worse by the fact that it's probably intentionally difficult.

    2) Your Paladin does not have access to his character sheet, and thus has no idea of any new "abilities" unless he observes them somehow in-game. He might have some sixth sense whispering in his ear to murder folks, but until he actually murders folks and receives healing for his previously-unhealable wounds.

    3) Making the ability not activate when you kill enemies is an even bigger butthole move, especially because it could lead to interesting roleplaying: if your paladin knew of this healing ability, would they be willing to go on a goblin-killing crusade, claiming to do it because it's holy and righteous but knowing inside that they're partially doing it to avoid dying? I think that kind of character conflict would be interesting, particularly since in that case it provides the Paladin with some kind of in-combat healing. Making it so it doesn't trigger by enemy deaths just means your DM literally wants your Paladin to murder innocents.

    4) Committing murder would make your Paladin fall, which means either retiring the character or respeccing as a Blackguard and enjoying your new murder-based healing forevermore.

    5) If your paladin knew that murdering the innocent would heal his otherwise-incurable and gradually-worsening wounds, I imagine that a truly dedicated Paladin would retire himself Samurai-style.
    Actually, I can think a few ways this can go.

    His GM isn't being a giant jerk, he's telling a story. Something has happened to the party. Something wants the party to become evil it sounds like... and the only way to break it is to make a true sacrifice. Likely there will be some sort of reward once the party has been fully cleansed... and likely retribution. BBEG who can throw something like this at a mid level adventuring party generally frown on their hard worked schemes being thwarted.

    The GM knows if you murder someone, you fall. You're supposed to figure out what you need to do before it becomes an absolute necessity to kill someone to live.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    I agree with Kantolin and Cal'. You should just do you, and if the DM isn't being a major prick, he'll give you some tips on how to cure your character of his corruption for sure. This does sound like a high risk-high reward kind of situation that the DM is pulling off, but if it's working, then I imagine it'll be a very memorable adventure. Considering the Magus got an even cooler ability after he cured his corruption, I don't suppose your DM is going to leave you hanging in a "So how do you fight the corruption?" kind of situation. He'll most likely give you hooks and tips and ideas in his own way to guide you, as any DM does. (Although I may have not used the right wording in that last sentence.) If you have trust in your DM, go along with it. If you don't, then speak up and communicate. This seems to be like an OOC issue you're having, and OOC issues are best solved OOC. Good luck with your Paladin.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    I like your DM's style. This seems like a wonderful moral quandary.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I like your DM's style. This seems like a wonderful moral quandary.
    How? There's a clear right answer and a clear wrong answer.

    The only puzzle is figuring out the DM's insane troll logic necessary to unlock the right answer before getting ganked and having to reroll.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Here's what your paladin should do:

    Go to one of their churches. Find a priest. Request a Commune from a priest. Pay the 500 gp material cost. Play the 20 questions game, paying forward another 500 gp as needed.

    "Is the way to cure my corruption inherent? No? Then is there a way to cleanse it to the east? No? Then it is to the west? Alright, is it northwest? Oh, thanks for that 5 word answer because being deliberately obtuse about it would be contrary to your interests of having your servant actually continue providing loyal work on the physical plane."

    Edit:Also, consider thy Mount/Astral bond for a moment. Are they showing signs of the corruption?
    Last edited by hector212121; 2016-11-03 at 11:55 PM.

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    How? There's a clear right answer and a clear wrong answer.

    The only puzzle is figuring out the DM's insane troll logic necessary to unlock the right answer before getting ganked and having to reroll.
    This /could/ be true, but it also could /not/ be true.

    And with the evidence of 'The Magus did not just lose everything suddenly and/or die in a similar circumstance', I think it's much more of 'The DM is doing a storytelling sequence presenting a moral quandary' more than 'The DM wants you to fall or wants to kill your character'.

    Now I mean, sure, the answer could become to dance on one leg while only wearing your right sock. But again, there's evidence that it won't be like that - as from the sounds of it, the other two characters have gotten through it (or at least one of them has - it's unclear if the Shaman wants/wanted the paralyzing touch or if this is part of the problem, but the Magus clearly has worked through it).

    So I agree with Hogsy:

    If you have trust in your DM, go along with it. If you don't, then speak up and communicate. This seems to be like an OOC issue you're having, and OOC issues are best solved OOC. Good luck with your Paladin.
    I'd personally go along with the story and see where it comes to, especially since there's more evidence that the DM isn't out to screw people than there is evidence that the DM is out to screw people. Heck, based on the magus thing, I'd figure that you'll end up with angelic wings and stuff out of the deal.

    (If the DM /isn't/ out to get people, then this is a 'paladin is threatened to fall' scenario that I could totally get behind as a frequent Paladin player.)
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Do shaman have access to the usual world-sundering divinations? Upon seeing my character's class features/identity directly threatened my first response would be an all-out assault with whatever RAW power is necessary to resolve it in the most expedient manner: RAW is not god, but if the DM has violated the first rule of player control of their characters in such a direct manner, I'd consider myself free to disregard the gentleman's agreement of not abusing the rules*. Unless the DM knows how all the divinations work and how to counter them, you simply cast "isolate plot" and apply maximum violence. I would expect a DM that throws a bunch of fiat curses to not know the proper counters, and thus when they further fiat your divinations into uselessness, you can respond by calling out their bs: you tell me to die pointlessly, I respond with the appropriate mechanics to hasten the plot, and you tell me it doesn't work, you lose. *Well actually I'd call bs first, but since you've been allowing this plot to continue you missed the first opportunity.

    How's your access to resurrection? While it's not always clear depending on the affect, dying can make a lot of stuff stop. Then you get raised and you're out some cash and xp. Considering how easily the magus got off (cost= one destroyed weapon), killing yourself/letting the curse kill you/glorious death charging some evil thing and accepting death is at least equivalent. If that wasn't the plan make the case that your plan is better and doesn't hamstring the party by making you fight with a massive penalty for who knows how long.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Hurl yourself into battle with reckless abandon, die like a boss, roll in with your paladin's brother steve who also happens to be a paladin with basically the same setup as your current paladin, looking to find out what happened and resolve whatever problem his brother fell trying to fix.

    Rinse and repeat like a spoony bard until the problem is resolved.

    Also, smack your DM with a folding chair.


    In all seriousness, you have only two options; trust that your DM knows what he's doing (I'd have my doubts at this point) or have a sit-down with him and hash out why this was a -terrible- plot-device that he needs to either ret-con or deus ex machina away.

    If you choose the former, go back to my somewhat facetious intro and roll with something similar unless you want to switch to blackguard.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    I like how your dm works, He's given you options, yes not al them are what you wan't. So you know what you do. You roleplay a illidan(World of Warcraft) were you use the power of the demons to fight the demons. Ask you Dm to change the requirements to get into Blackgaurd to Non-Good. Rolepaly a SLOW switch From good to neutral.
    i have a fake 10 point sistem for you when you are switching
    Here my order of things i would do in character.
    1) don't use demonic powers to start.(0 points towards neutral)
    2) start using demonic powers because you realize that you can use them to the advantage of good. (5 points)
    3) refuse to listen to the lesser paladins who are not taking the chance. (5 points)
    4) Get kicked out of paladins order. Take lvl in Blackgaurd. (3 points towards evil)
    5)* how could they... i was the one protecting them.... i was the one who held the corruption they could not* Phase
    6) plan a return from where ever in hell the sent you to for revenge (3 points towards evil)
    7) make a pact with a devil. so you can gain there powers [half fiend template]
    8) Take you revenge (1 point towards evil)

    If your dm doesn't let you then he's pure evil....!

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    DM wants murder hobo? Go full on Feast levels of murder hobo. Give him all the gory details. Spend hours describing how you revel in your new found power and freedom, and the entrils of an entire orphanage. Give in to every dark thought you can muster, then come back to us for ideas. Maybe killing is only the start. Maybe you can get STRONGER by eating your victims. I can give you instructions on how to prepare and cook a human body if you want. If that is the path the DM wants to go down, take him all the way kicking and screaming. Then, at the end of it, toss the bum out for this kind of crap.

    Or just talk to him and let him know he is being a weiner. Either or. Your call.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Dreamscarred Press' Lord of the Night has a Archetype for Paladins called Nightguard. Lawful Paladins who hunt and destroy monsters Witcher style (almost). If you absolutely have to fall, fall to Lawful neutral and ask your DM to gain this Archetype. Or see where the story brings you, my hunch is that when the DM sees your character flat out refuses to use thus 'ability' things will take a turn. After all, we are storytellers and having the main dramatis personae die, well... It sucks. Unless they are being abnormally stupid

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantolin View Post
    This /could/ be true, but it also could /not/ be true.

    And with the evidence of 'The Magus did not just lose everything suddenly and/or die in a similar circumstance', I think it's much more of 'The DM is doing a storytelling sequence presenting a moral quandary' more than 'The DM wants you to fall or wants to kill your character'.

    Now I mean, sure, the answer could become to dance on one leg while only wearing your right sock. But again, there's evidence that it won't be like that - as from the sounds of it, the other two characters have gotten through it (or at least one of them has - it's unclear if the Shaman wants/wanted the paralyzing touch or if this is part of the problem, but the Magus clearly has worked through it).
    There's no quandary though. If one is a Paladin, the answer is to fix the problem, not kill innocents and fall. Especially knowing that there is a way to fix the problem and come out extra holy for having overcome it.

    Now if it was one where the Paladin was being lured into being recklessly aggressive or to kill guilty people who nonetheless didn't actually deserve death as their punishment, there might be some room for a moral quandary.

    The road to hell needs to be paved with good intentions and actual grey situations, not lolmurder.
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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Quote Originally Posted by Erit View Post
    I'm inclined to agree with Vec on this'un. One of two things has happened so far as we can readily judge; your DM has no idea how a Paladin's Code of Conduct works, in which case "why the flying hell is he the DM" is my primary concern. Alternatively, your DM does not want you to play a Paladin but has decided that, rather than simply telling you that you can't play a Paladin, he will go the coward's route and try to make you stop wanting to play a Paladin. In that scenario the primary concern is thanking his lucky stars that it isn't me that he's pulling that crap with, because I'd deck the turd with his own DMG for it.

    Judging by the fact that he let the Magus go after you broke his Black Blade (IE, after you removed one of his key class features), I'm willing to bet it's in the ballpark of the latter. In which case I hope for your DM's sake that he's got something frickin' amazing up his sleeve for when everybody around has lost their class abilities, because he has no reason to expect people to stick around his table otherwise.
    Yeah. After my last experience with a Paladin (where I spent like 3 weeks with the DM working out how to port my Neo-Dragon Knight to 3.5 - so it was an approved idea), I've resolved "Hey, know what? **** this." Think you know someone? Try pulling a Paladin at their table, and realize how wrong you are.

    In my latest game, I've had someone want to play a Samurai (class). I opted to inform him that it could be emulated with fighter levels, and not have some stupid oath. Failing to convince him, I at least got the DM to agree to not **** him over at the tip of the hat.
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: My GM is trying to make my Paladin a Serial Killer

    Honestly, I like these kind of deals. It follows a certain kind of story where your character is supposed to make a choice that was inflicted on him by destiny, the story, the DM's way of story telling. Apparently the character is evolving, getting good stuff (flight, resistance, physical boosts) and it is a lure from whatever infernal creature is doing, to see if the character can be corrupted (and let's be honest, corrupting a paladin is probably the greatest morself an evil abysall creature can find itself doing). It's up to you to see if you'll take the bait, if you will resist the lure and find the cure for your corruption, or if you will die in torment or in a last stand kind of blaze in glory.

    This is all taking into account that your DM is not an ass, an that he wants to tell that kind of story, which, judging from the magus bit, I think he wants to do. I am all for changing characters abilities, adding or removing class features if it is not something permanent and serves a point. It's strange to me how many people blame the DM for bad handling of the game. I'd be ecstatic with this kind of development, even if I would be worried with losing the hp. Something similar happened to my own paladin (well, crusader) during a Ravenloft game where my character was taken by some crazy dark lord and experimented upon. I became a living construct, a Frankenstein monster that lost his constitution score (which hurt since it was my second stat, making me effectively lose some odd 3 hp per level permanently), but gained some nifty abilities, like quick healing, couldn't tire, didn't need sleep or to breathe, darkvision and stacking increase to strength that raised with levels.


    But the bottom line was stil that I was some half undead abomination. The DM didn't really say, but there was a reason for this and while initially pissed, I saw it as a great hook to try and find a way to revert back to my mortal shell. Alas, some poor decision making led to a party wipe but I still think that the entire ordeal stood out well enough.

    What I'm saying, give the story a chance.

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