Mass Effect Andromeda: To Boldly Go

[Anonymouswizard]

But that's exactly the problem - All AI will have this "leg up," because any civilization capable of creating AI will (a) have pretty advanced tech by that point anyway and (b) have integrated said AI into their tech because that was the reason AI was created in the first place, is to help them manage and advance their tech beyond its current level.

True, but the Grey are the closest the setting has to post singularity AI (seriously, if the Grey wanted they could create more of themselves within an hour or two). We don't know if the truly superintelligent AI is possible.

So where exactly have the Quarians been building Dyson Spheres and communicating at the speed of light? Of course Geth are more advanced than they are, and moreover, they've built far more dreadnoughts in a much shorter time, to the point that the Quarians were forced to strap ordinance to their liveships (or as Joker put it, "mounting a big gun on your kid's school bus") to even keep up.

Modern Quarians are a bad species to compare the Geth to, because the Geth don't need to dedicate most of their resources towards maintaining a stable habitat. I think the Salarians could build a dyson sphere of they wanted to, they just don't have any need to.

FWIW I often saw Shepard communicating at light speed in the games.

This is plausible. Or maybe they are some flavor of synthesized/hybrids.

Hybrids... So cyborgs?

Seriously, how can we have a hybrid that isn't a cyborg of some variety. There's also the possibility that ME is just one of those settings where superintelligent AI is impossible, it wouldn't break anything we've seen.

[5ColouredWalker]

So where exactly have the Quarians been building Dyson Spheres and communicating at the speed of light? Of course Geth are more advanced than they are, and moreover, they've built far more dreadnoughts in a much shorter time, to the point that the Quarians were forced to strap ordinance to their liveships (or as Joker put it, "mounting a big gun on your kid's school bus") to even keep up.

1: Bad comparrison. One is a race of AI's of unknown number, one is a race of IIRC 20 million people forced onto spaceships with limited ability to do anything.
I mean, Comparing Australia's military might to the entire rest of the world will make Australia look bad, but that's not because Australia is bad.

2: Geth are not bound by the treaty of Fir*Mumble*, and Dreadnaughts are much better than any other ship, including carriers (Only designed because humanity hit the cap on dreads). Quarians have no shipyards. Of course Geth have ended up with more than the Qurians (And for that matter, anyone else). Additionally, the (Non Heretic) Geth haven't been in conflict with anyone for 300 years, so it's also reasonable they have more than the Turians, who need to dedicate shipyards to repairing their ships and replacing losses.

3: Dyson Spheres, for Geth, are the equivalent of finding and colonizing another planet, while probably terraforming it. Also, they're building one, and have had around up to 300 years to do it and still haven't completed it. How many planets have the other races turned from 'found' to 'covered in cities' in that time?

[Psyren]

True, but the Grey are the closest the setting has to post singularity AI (seriously, if the Grey wanted they could create more of themselves within an hour or two). We don't know if the truly superintelligent AI is possible.

Indeed, we don't - and the Reapers certainly prove nothing either way since they are shackled AI. Though the fact that no AI ever created in however many cycles has ever been able to advance fast enough to beat them is pretty telling.

Modern Quarians are a bad species to compare the Geth to, because the Geth don't need to dedicate most of their resources towards maintaining a stable habitat. I think the Salarians could build a dyson sphere of they wanted to, they just don't have any need to.

They're more focused on organic/genetic research (as we saw on Sur'kesh), which is useful but they'll never beat any AI that way.

FWIW I often saw Shepard communicating at light speed in the games.

Har har

Hybrids... So cyborgs?

Seriously, how can we have a hybrid that isn't a cyborg of some variety. There's also the possibility that ME is just one of those settings where superintelligent AI is impossible, it wouldn't break anything we've seen.

When I say hybrid, I refer to a being whose thought processes are both organic and synthetic. Like that conversation between EDI and Shepard where Shepard asks if he is a cybernetic organism, and she says there isn't actually enough tech in him for that. His body has plenty of synthetic parts, but he still thinks like a human. It's not like he can multitask on a million things in the middle of a firefight like she or Legion can - that sort of thing. I was wondering whether there might be a race in Andromeda along those lines, or at least one trying to achieve that.

EDIT: I found the conversation with EDI. She mentions that the Salarians are in favor of the concept, while humans are contentious about it. She doesn't mention whether any of them succeeded at a true transorganic / synthesized being though.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Something random that came through my mind this morning: anyone else think Drack might end up seeming a bit samey or boring? Wrex, Grunt and Bakara are kind of tough acts to follow in terms of awesome, but then again the fact that those three were each awesome in their own special way seems to indicate that krogan are automatically awesome by default. Thoughts?

[LibraryOgre]

So, to break a bit from TTW, I'm replaying the Trilogy, starting as a Sentinel. Not sure where I'll go with her, but I just can't bring myself to Failshep, so the question is mostly mechanical.

[Dienekes]

Something random that came through my mind this morning: anyone else think Drack might end up seeming a bit samey or boring? Wrex, Grunt and Bakara are kind of tough acts to follow in terms of awesome, but then again the fact that those three were each awesome in their own special way seems to indicate that krogan are automatically awesome by default. Thoughts?

This can be the problem with any race of hats. But so far I trust Bioware to make interesting companions. There's plenty to look forward to with Krogans. Other than generic enemies I can't think of a Krogan that didn't add some interesting facet to the race.

From Wrex's bitter but optimistic attempts for growth. To Okeer's attempt to beat the Genophage at its own game. To Grunts self discovery. And Bakara's sarcastic sense. Hell, even Charr's romanticism. So long as there are more aspects of personality to analyze through a foreign lense I think they can work.

Bioware's good with companions. I may not like all of them but so far only 3 haven't interested me at all: Oghren, Kaiden, and Sera. I doubt they're going to drop the ball.

[Squark]

So, I decided to try another run through the games now that all three are backwards compatible on Xbox One. Unfortunately, I've run into a couple problems.

1) Neither ME 1 or 2 (I'm still installing the updates for 3) can find my saves, even though I transferred them to the cloud.

2) For some reason (possibly related), the Cerberus network in ME 2 does not recognize that I am already connected to Xbox Live.

Has anyone experienced either of these issues and found a work around? I ask because I haven't had much luck searching the support forums, and I thought I'd ask here first since I've had some headaches dealing with EA's customer service.

EDIT: Aha! For some inexplicable reason, playing backwards compatible games requires you to log in twice, and only ME3 had anything that would direct me to do that.

[MacGiolla]

So I am trying to decide whether to pre-order the Standard or Deluxe version of the game.

As background I will be playing on an Xbox One, and generally don't like to miss out on any game play so am inclined toward the Deluxe Version.

From what I can tell the extras you get are: Pathfinder Casual Outfit, Scavenger Armor, Pathfinder Elite Weapon Set (4), Pet Pyjak (Monkey), Digital Soundtrack, Multiplayer Deluxe Launch Pack.

So it sounds like for $10 you get:
A cosmetic outfit change
A set of Armor and 4 Weapons - I imagine that these will be some advanced beginner gear which will give you a bit of a leg up during the early levels
A pet Monkey - Not sure how this will be implemented and if there will be other pet options but could be amusing I guess.
Digital Soundtrack - Don't really care
Multiplayer stuff - I don't play multiplayer so this doesn't effect me much.

It doesn't appear that you get any additional gameplay with deluxe which is a bit of a bummer.

I will probably end up getting the deluxe version anyway but I'm having a little trouble justifying it based on what you get. Is there something I'm missing?

[Dienekes]

So I am trying to decide whether to pre-order the Standard or Deluxe version of the game.

As background I will be playing on an Xbox One, and generally don't like to miss out on any game play so am inclined toward the Deluxe Version.

From what I can tell the extras you get are: Pathfinder Casual Outfit, Scavenger Armor, Pathfinder Elite Weapon Set (4), Pet Pyjak (Monkey), Digital Soundtrack, Multiplayer Deluxe Launch Pack.

So it sounds like for $10 you get:
A cosmetic outfit change
A set of Armor and 4 Weapons - I imagine that these will be some advanced beginner gear which will give you a bit of a leg up during the early levels
A pet Monkey - Not sure how this will be implemented and if there will be other pet options but could be amusing I guess.
Digital Soundtrack - Don't really care
Multiplayer stuff - I don't play multiplayer so this doesn't effect me much.

It doesn't appear that you get any additional gameplay with deluxe which is a bit of a bummer.

I will probably end up getting the deluxe version anyway but I'm having a little trouble justifying it based on what you get. Is there something I'm missing?

People spend more money than they need to on unnecessary trinkets. Do you care about the added weaponry and clothes? If yes, buy it. If no, don't bother.

[Squark]

So I am trying to decide whether to pre-order the Standard or Deluxe version of the game.

As background I will be playing on an Xbox One, and generally don't like to miss out on any game play so am inclined toward the Deluxe Version.

From what I can tell the extras you get are: Pathfinder Casual Outfit, Scavenger Armor, Pathfinder Elite Weapon Set (4), Pet Pyjak (Monkey), Digital Soundtrack, Multiplayer Deluxe Launch Pack.

So it sounds like for $10 you get:
A cosmetic outfit change
A set of Armor and 4 Weapons - I imagine that these will be some advanced beginner gear which will give you a bit of a leg up during the early levels
A pet Monkey - Not sure how this will be implemented and if there will be other pet options but could be amusing I guess.
Digital Soundtrack - Don't really care
Multiplayer stuff - I don't play multiplayer so this doesn't effect me much.

It doesn't appear that you get any additional gameplay with deluxe which is a bit of a bummer.

I will probably end up getting the deluxe version anyway but I'm having a little trouble justifying it based on what you get. Is there something I'm missing?

It depends on how weapons and armor work in the game. As someone who enjoyed the DLC weapons in ME 2 & 3, the inability to obtain the N7 weapons pack on consoles is a pet peeve of mine. On the other hand, the dlc gear in Inquisition (or at least, the pre-order stuff) did not add any new gameplay, and while you could craft superior versions of the gear later if you liked the look, it wasn't really a big deal.

Judging from what we've seen of the inventory and gathering systems in the trailers, ME:A leans toward Inquisition's system, so I suspect you're right that the pre-order stuff isn't anything special.

[Beleriphon]

It depends on how weapons and armor work in the game. As someone who enjoyed the DLC weapons in ME 2 & 3, the inability to obtain the N7 weapons pack on consoles is a pet peeve of mine. On the other hand, the dlc gear in Inquisition (or at least, the pre-order stuff) did not add any new gameplay, and while you could craft superior versions of the gear later if you liked the look, it wasn't really a big deal.

Judging from what we've seen of the inventory and gathering systems in the trailers, ME:A leans toward Inquisition's system, so I suspect you're right that the pre-order stuff isn't anything special.

DA:I's preorder gear was pretty boss early level stuff. I don't think I swapped it out until I think level 15. Pretty far in since the armour was better than most stuff you could get anywhere else, for a good long time.

[Psyren]

So, I decided to try another run through the games now that all three are backwards compatible on Xbox One. Unfortunately, I've run into a couple problems.

1) Neither ME 1 or 2 (I'm still installing the updates for 3) can find my saves, even though I transferred them to the cloud.

2) For some reason (possibly related), the Cerberus network in ME 2 does not recognize that I am already connected to Xbox Live.

Has anyone experienced either of these issues and found a work around? I ask because I haven't had much luck searching the support forums, and I thought I'd ask here first since I've had some headaches dealing with EA's customer service.

If the official fora don't help for some reason I would give Reddit a try.

So, to break a bit from TTW, I'm replaying the Trilogy, starting as a Sentinel. Not sure where I'll go with her, but I just can't bring myself to Failshep, so the question is mostly mechanical.

There are three main Sentinel builds:

- Theurge: standard biotics + tech caster build, and what most people think of when they think Sentinel. This is viable in all 3 games but weakest in 3 due to the asinine cooldown increase they applied to armor powers in that game.

- Assault Sentinel: You get in close and detonate the tech armor. Works best in ME2, where it enables a very dynamic and aggressive style. Basically useless in 3 because armor powers don't heal your shields anymore (except for EDI's defense matrix, which has no stun, so...)

- Juggernaut Sentinel: This build is exclusive to ME3 because the third game lets you stack armor powers. It is not actually a caster at all - in fact your cooldowns become murder with this build - but with heavy weapons and grenades you become a powerhouse all the same. If you've ever wanted to play as a Krogan in SP, this is how.

1: Bad comparrison. One is a race of AI's of unknown number, one is a race of IIRC 20 million people forced onto spaceships with limited ability to do anything.
I mean, Comparing Australia's military might to the entire rest of the world will make Australia look bad, but that's not because Australia is bad.

2: Geth are not bound by the treaty of Fir*Mumble*, and Dreadnaughts are much better than any other ship, including carriers (Only designed because humanity hit the cap on dreads). Quarians have no shipyards. Of course Geth have ended up with more than the Qurians (And for that matter, anyone else). Additionally, the (Non Heretic) Geth haven't been in conflict with anyone for 300 years, so it's also reasonable they have more than the Turians, who need to dedicate shipyards to repairing their ships and replacing losses.

3: Dyson Spheres, for Geth, are the equivalent of finding and colonizing another planet, while probably terraforming it. Also, they're building one, and have had around up to 300 years to do it and still haven't completed it. How many planets have the other races turned from 'found' to 'covered in cities' in that time?

1) But the Geth started out being far, far fewer. The fact that there are so many more now is a point in AI's favor.

2) Same as above.

3) Even getting that far in 300 years is a scary achievement. How long have Asari and Krogan been flying around? (Hint: longer than 300 years.)

[5ColouredWalker]

1) But the Geth started out being far, far fewer. The fact that there are so many more now is a point in AI's favor.

2) Same as above.

3) Even getting that far in 300 years is a scary achievement. How long have Asari and Krogan been flying around? (Hint: longer than 300 years.)

1+2) Yes and no, the Geth would have been the surviving population from at least 1 planet (Maybe more), and it's not that much of a favour since their 'breeding' is just pressing ctrl-C ctrl-V until they've used up the storage space they're not using for memory. That they've proven the ability to make things they already had with only a slight increase over organic tech.
Aust
3) The Krogan were only space fairing after uplift and not totally dedicated to fighting another races war for 4-500 years, in which they, a race originally starting with one planet and tech help, became a galactic powerhouse that was wrecking the known universe more than the Rachni, and continued to do so until a fresh race of near technological parity (Turians) arrived, and even then, they managed to last 90 years after being hit with a race-wide bioweapon neutralizing their biggest advantage before being beaten back down to the homeworld they were gifted, and based on appearances they fought there to. Krogan scientists are good in my books given that before being thrown into a galaxy wide meat grinder they had reverted to blackpowder weapons at best, and their main force came from the portions of their race moved to another planet.

As for the Salarians/Asari/etc, being someone who believes in the Angels and Cavemen idea when it comes to aliens, so I'm going to (Mis)quote Austin from Shoddycast
"You're not Science fiction. You're Science Fantasy!"
I mean, seriously, Asari and Salarians have been space fairing for almost 3000 years.
Lets assume it took the Asari the same amount of time to discover FTL that humans did, from the first mention in the codex that would be 187 years. Asari discovered FTL in 580BC, meaning Asari had been space fairing for 2924 years.
You know what was a major technological achievement that long ago?
GLASS.

In the time it took for humanity to advance from Glass to Eezo based combat capable spaceships, the Asari and the collective races around them had advanced so little that an entire Turian Fleet, a fleet from the greatest military power in the galaxy that hadn't gone through an extermination cycle couldn't successfully conquer and hold a underdeveloped colony. This would be like a Platoon of the American army being unable to hold a tiny plot of jungle from one of the few tribes of humanity that hadn't progressed past spiky rocks on the end of sticks.

That said, while this shows everyone to be pants on head retarded, this doesn't mean the Geth are that special. I honestly doubt they're that far ahead of modern swarm intelligences. That said, Edi and AI's like her could be the sort of super AI's people imagine, just used very very poorly, given that she successfully hacked a Collector Dreadnought that was actively being looked at by Harbinger.

[SangoProduction]

So, I decided to try another run through the games now that all three are backwards compatible on Xbox One. Unfortunately, I've run into a couple problems.

1) Neither ME 1 or 2 (I'm still installing the updates for 3) can find my saves, even though I transferred them to the cloud.

2) For some reason (possibly related), the Cerberus network in ME 2 does not recognize that I am already connected to Xbox Live.

Has anyone experienced either of these issues and found a work around? I ask because I haven't had much luck searching the support forums, and I thought I'd ask here first since I've had some headaches dealing with EA's customer service.

EDIT: Aha! For some inexplicable reason, playing backwards compatible games requires you to log in twice, and only ME3 had anything that would direct me to do that.

Just find someone else's save file. There are whole sites dedicated to having a vast catalogue of ME universes for your personalized experience.

[SangoProduction]

So I am trying to decide whether to pre-order the Standard or Deluxe version of the game.

As background I will be playing on an Xbox One, and generally don't like to miss out on any game play so am inclined toward the Deluxe Version.

From what I can tell the extras you get are: Pathfinder Casual Outfit, Scavenger Armor, Pathfinder Elite Weapon Set (4), Pet Pyjak (Monkey), Digital Soundtrack, Multiplayer Deluxe Launch Pack.

So it sounds like for $10 you get:
A cosmetic outfit change
A set of Armor and 4 Weapons - I imagine that these will be some advanced beginner gear which will give you a bit of a leg up during the early levels
A pet Monkey - Not sure how this will be implemented and if there will be other pet options but could be amusing I guess.
Digital Soundtrack - Don't really care
Multiplayer stuff - I don't play multiplayer so this doesn't effect me much.

It doesn't appear that you get any additional gameplay with deluxe which is a bit of a bummer.

I will probably end up getting the deluxe version anyway but I'm having a little trouble justifying it based on what you get. Is there something I'm missing?

Or...be a responsible consumer and don't preorder, and wait for the reviews that will be coming out before even preorders go out (unless the contracts with reviewers had that they couldn't release them until preorders were already locked in, and can't be refunded....in which case...it's a reason to worry). You could do that.

[Avilan the Grey]

Have not really paid attention to this since I still feel like the idea is a cop out since the ME3 ending painted Bioware in a corner. I don't know anything about the characters even other than the protagonist is a sibling to the opposite gender protagonist (I like that idea) and that the Asari looks very similar to Michael J. Pollard in most screen shots

Admittedly my hype level has gone up from Yawn to Maybe Eventually.
One thing for sure is that I won't pre-order.

[GungHo]

Have not really paid attention to this since I still feel like the idea is a cop out since the ME3 ending painted Bioware in a corner.

I am going to buy it, but I guess I don't understand why they're going back for this one (well, economically, I do). As you say, they painted themselves into a corner. They even knew they were doing it at the time and did it anyway, and they've hit the reset button in such a way that I don't think that it's going to matter what "universe" was chosen in ME3. At best, they'll make an assumption that people picked option X and say "eff your choices" or it's going to be a drop in a few lines of dialog and then it will never be addressed again like "gee, glad we fixed that green eye glowing thing, that was creepy" or "it'd be nice to have our Reaper buddies here to build the colony, but they can't make the jump" or "Thus spake ShepJesus 'This is my favorite store on the Citadel', and it was good."

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Didn't Andromeda Initiative leave before the end of ME3? So they wouldn't know how things ended... Perhaps SOME of the endings would involve getting a message from the Milky Way, "hey this is how things turned out", but that'd be it. The characters would have had no actual experience with the ending of ME3, only what they were told in an email.

[Psyren]

@5ColouredWalker: We may just have to agree to disagree. The speed of AI advancement (and the danger that poses) seems abundantly clear to me, and more importantly, to the Catalyst, hence its course of action.

Didn't Andromeda Initiative leave before the end of ME3? So they wouldn't know how things ended... Perhaps SOME of the endings would involve getting a message from the Milky Way, "hey this is how things turned out", but that'd be it. The characters would have had no actual experience with the ending of ME3, only what they were told in an email.

It left before the start of ME3 actually. So they may suspect the Reapers are a thing but nobody in this game would likely be aware of the invasion, the Crucible, any of it.

I am going to buy it, but I guess I don't understand why they're going back for this one (well, economically, I do). As you say, they painted themselves into a corner. They even knew they were doing it at the time and did it anyway, and they've hit the reset button in such a way that I don't think that it's going to matter what "universe" was chosen in ME3. At best, they'll make an assumption that people picked option X and say "eff your choices" or it's going to be a drop in a few lines of dialog and then it will never be addressed again like "gee, glad we fixed that green eye glowing thing, that was creepy" or "it'd be nice to have our Reaper buddies here to build the colony, but they can't make the jump" or "Thus spake ShepJesus 'This is my favorite store on the Citadel', and it was good."

The way things are, it's entirely possible we never hear from or see the Milky Way ever again. It's not like they need Earth to be accessible to make a sci-fi setting - they just need humans (for new players to relate to), and Andromeda has those now.

[Morty]

I really don't think there was ever going to be a Mass Effect game taking place after ME3. That ship sailed when the source of the conflict was revealed to be civilization-wiping god-machines. There's no real way to end such a story without leaving everything fundamentally altered, especially given the emphasis on making your choices matter.

[MacGiolla]

Or...be a responsible consumer and don't preorder, and wait for the reviews that will be coming out before even preorders go out (unless the contracts with reviewers had that they couldn't release them until preorders were already locked in, and can't be refunded....in which case...it's a reason to worry). You could do that.

What is this responsible consumership you speak of? I know not of such things. I want my shiny new game to show up on my doorstep the day it comes out.

[Psyren]

Or...be a responsible consumer and don't preorder, and wait for the reviews that will be coming out before even preorders go out (unless the contracts with reviewers had that they couldn't release them until preorders were already locked in, and can't be refunded....in which case...it's a reason to worry). You could do that.

Even if it royally sucks, I'm out $60 and have still supported one of my favorite developers, one that (quite apart from their memorable characters, intriguing setting and fantastic combat) is leading the charge when it comes to diversity and inclusion in gaming. So not only will I preorder, I'm paying for the early access thing too.

Also, implying that people who are excited about things you're not are all "irresponsible" seems condescending.

[Rodin]

I really don't think there was ever going to be a Mass Effect game taking place after ME3. That ship sailed when the source of the conflict was revealed to be civilization-wiping god-machines. There's no real way to end such a story without leaving everything fundamentally altered, especially given the emphasis on making your choices matter.

There were plenty of ways to get rid of them while leaving the younger races about to create problems of their own afterwards (see again: Babylon 5). Heck, even in context of Mass Effect universe you simply declare high asset Destroy as being canon and roll with it. The trouble really came from them wanting to resolve existing plotlines that aren't really related to the Reapers at all, and which additionally have mutually contradictory resolutions. Finally finishing out the Krogan plotline and finishing out the Quarians vs the Geth - both are essentially self-contained stories that don't rely on the existence of the Reapers. How you do you reconcile having Geth or Quarians or both running around? Or the Krogan being either cured of the genophage or not? The answer is you don't.

I also think it was the right decision. You get better stories by being willing to kill off characters and wipe out entire races. If the stakes had been lower Bioware risked having their big villains fall flat when they finally showed up. They still kinda did because they had to write in an insta-kill weapon to deal with them (on Mars, because of course it was), but the threat allowed the rest of the story to shine.

The choices mattered because your decisions decide the final state of the galaxy when you were done. Picking a world state now and retconning everything would just invalidate all of those choices. Moving to Andromeda prior to ME3 lets you start over with no strings attached while allowing the world state to remain.

[LibraryOgre]

I will add... as a busy father with a pregnant wife, ME3 multiplayer is a good-sized chunk of gaming each day. I might not be able to sit down and explore an entire planet in ME1, but I can carve out time for a single round of multiplayer.

[SangoProduction]

Even if it royally sucks, I'm out $60 and have still supported one of my favorite developers, one that (quite apart from their memorable characters, intriguing setting and fantastic combat) is leading the charge when it comes to diversity and inclusion in gaming. So not only will I preorder, I'm paying for the early access thing too.

Also, implying that people who are excited about things you're not are all "irresponsible" seems condescending.

Way to twist words. I said that preordering is irresponsible, because you are saying you'll pay for it without even knowing what you're paying for. Not to mention the practice promotes cutting content to give preorder "bonuses".

Nowhere did I say being excited was irresponsible.

[Psyren]

Way to twist words. I said that preordering is irresponsible, because you are saying you'll pay for it without even knowing what you're paying for.

But I do know what I'm paying for, and it's the assumption that I don't that is abrasive. Not every last detail, no - but this is a proven brand from a proven company with a proven track record of having something that I won't regret having bought at launch. It's not like I'm preordering Everybody's Gone To The Rapture 2 or Ride To Hell 2 - I and many of us who preorder have a pretty good idea of what we're buying and are walking into that transaction with our eyes very much open.

Not to mention the practice promotes cutting content to give preorder "bonuses".

A lot of those bonuses are things that otherwise wouldn't have been created at all, if they could not be used to incentivize greater launch day numbers, drive deluxe/collector's edition sales, or simply sold later as standalone DLC to allow the developer to recoup some portion of a used sale. We all love the shiny graphics, sweeping audio and epic gameplay that AAA games (AAA RPGs in particular) get made with now, but with those bells and whistles come steeper and steeper development costs. Since the listed price point for games is unlikely to move far past $60, and used games/rentals aren't going anywhere anytime soon either (the one console that tried that, the Xbone, ended up kneecapped), DLC is the only way to monetize, and the longer they wait to release it the less profitable/justified it becomes.


TL;DR it's my money, I know what I'm doing, and there are legitimate reasons for the industry practice - reasons based on consumer behavior, aka us. If we want them to behave differently, we collectively need to behave differently too - which is highly unlikely, so we're going to keep seeing preorder bonuses and launch-day or close-to-launch-day DLC being a thing.

[Inarius]

Way to twist words. I said that preordering is irresponsible, because you are saying you'll pay for it without even knowing what you're paying for. Not to mention the practice promotes cutting content to give preorder "bonuses".

Nowhere did I say being excited was irresponsible.

I wouldn't say you have no idea what you'll be buying in a preorder. It depends on the company and while companies can indeed change as Bioware has that doesn't mean that you can't gauge what their next release is going to be like by looking at their track record. I'd never preorder an Ubisoft Published game for instance, but I have been satisfied enough with what Harebrained Schemes has done to kickstart their Battletech game for instance. I really doubt I will be dissatisfied with that game when it launches later this year, and I also doubt I will be dissatisfied with ME:A. If I am it's not the end of the world and I'll simply be more skeptical of what they release next.

[Anonymouswizard]

Since the listed price point for games is unlikely to move far past $60, and used games/rentals aren't going anywhere anytime soon either (the one console that tried that, the Xbone, ended up kneecapped), DLC is the only way to monetize, and the longer they wait to release it the less profitable/justified it becomes.

Let's see, $1 is approximately £0.8. So To find the cost in pounds I just multiply by 0.8. So £48, games here in the UK cost slightly more than they do in the US (which I think was the case last gen? They cost £40 and I think that it was about $1=£0.67 just before Brexit), and games here have been rising about £10 per console generation as far as I can remember (were PS1 game £20? I was below 10 when it was the main console). It's annoying, but to me at least it makes sense because each generation increases the money needed to make games and inflation is the thing, so a price hike will be necessary unless there's a massive increase in the number of customers. I suspect the Playstation 5 and Xbox Goggolplex will have £60 games if they ever materialise it.

Although renting games isn't really a thing over here, either you buy a game new near launch and support the developer or you wait 6 months and get it second hand for £15 for one reason or another (as a student I normally buy old games second hand because I can rarely spare more than £2 for a game, I'll likely be playing MEA around October). It's why I have no real problem with day one DLC, either I'll have the game new some way (such as a present) and type in the code, I'll get it second hand and either go without the content or pay for it depending on how I feel. I'm fine with missing out on a few missions or pieces of equipment or whatever because I haven't given the developers money, it's hard to get new games after a couple of months anyway.

[MacGiolla]

I just went ahead and pre-ordered the Deluxe version. With the Amazon Prime discount I ended up paying less than the standard version would have cost so I justified it to myself that way. Also preordering gets you a set of Armor and a fancy new skin for your Mako or whatever they are calling it now.

[Anteros]

I've been burned by EA too many times to pre-order anything. I'll just wait for the GOTY edition so I don't have to pay the full cost of the game twice. Once for the game, and once for the second half of the plot locked behind DLC walls.