One-Gender Races

[erikun]

Uh...None actually. It just occurred to me that finding good art of harpies was bad enough, but I couldn't really find good examples of male harpies. I had the idea they could have been cursed from human stock and therefore still able to breed with it, but that just seemed like a recipe for disaster and stereotypical drow matrons with WIIIIIIINGS.

So maybe all members are gendered female, but some have baby-making parts? Still not 100% sure what direction to take this in.

Also, I wonder if Warforged could have been made to have the broad shoulders and the 'pecs' of a male, but the wider hips of a female for balance or something. That'd be a sight.

Well, if the problem is that you are only finding harpy art with boobs, then I could make a few suggestions.

One, harpies have two sexes and two genders, it's just that both males and females have noteworthy breasts and can produce breast milk. Much like the idea that male/female dwarves can both produce beards, there's nothing wrong with both (or all) sexes of a species to display traits normally associated with only one sex in humans.

Two, harpies are only the female sex, but display personalities in both genders. This would be entirely reasonable given that they were originally from human bloodlines; they likely retain the same gender divide as humanity, especially when still living in close proximity to them. Please note that not every individual of a species is required to produce offspring in order for the species to survive, so there is no problem with the male (gender) harpies simply choosing to not take up a mate, or taking up a female mate.

Three, harpies are female sex (only) and female gender (primarily), and so you have a race of females. As you note, this would probably produce a very drow-like mindset, especially in looking down on men (not being harpies, among other things) and possibly having some captured or in a lower class in harpy society. You'd probably end up with something similar to drow society in treehouses, which does raise the question of why you would want to bother with it. Your group will certainly notice the similarity.

[CharonsHelper]

...I don't think he meant personal survival, but in order to bear offspring. And that's something both men and women have always been dependent on each other for. Not particularly creepy.

Lol - that reminds me of this -

“What would men be without women? Scarce, sir...mighty scarce.

I honestly find the idea of a bird beak speaking really really really distracting. You have no lips!

Why? Parrots & ravens don't have much trouble speaking without lips. From what I understand it's more important to have a thick tongue than lips - which they both do. (Though I did see a PFS adventure which had tengu using blowdarts which annoyed me.)

[Floret]

Maybe not the most inspired example, but one that could be looked at (if one is willing to go VERY Fantasy with this) are the Varl from Banner Saga.
They were all made specifically and personally by their god, and have only one gender (That is referred to as male throughout the games. On the other hand, they DO look like giant male humans with horns. They do wear clothes inspired by dresses, sometimes, though.).
Of course, they don't reproduce. They were all made by their god in his image, and since that god is dead, the race is slowly dying out.

As for the rest of the topic... A lot of interesting ideas.

There may well be caste, class, or entirely non-sex-based but still biologically-linked "expectation groups," but if there is only one sex, there won't be "multiple genders." [...]

I think part of this might be arguing semantics. The other part - sure, humans tend to project things they feel as "natural" as such, even if they are anything but. (Cultures on Earth defy pretty much all of these, be they things as base 10 calculations (Who says counting fingers is in any way the "intuitive thing" to do?^^), Binary Gender systems (Numerous counterexamples, despite a relatively (though far less than most people assume) binary sexual dimorphism) or using relative direction instead of absolute in day to day speech (Because how could you always know where north is? Turns out, if you bake it into the language, people just... do))
So, projecting "Gender" onto a mono-sexed species might be similar to people projecting gender dynamics on same-gender couples - sometimes, no chopstick is a fork. It's an interesting point, though to truly answer the question, we might need a clear definition of what "Gender" actually constitutes, before we can reasonably move forward with the discussion, because "can monosexed species have the thing we call gender" heavily depends on the answer to the question "what even is gender".

[Segev]

THAT IS GENIUS. Psychological warfare upon your enemies! Sure, many armies won't care, but some have to.

I wonder if living constructs can become undead, and if these would qualify as children slain through the negligence or betrayal of their guardians.

No, no, just to make the offspring.

That is what I thought.

I assume that a species with flight and a dexterity bonus would make for excellent pirates, but any males for reproduction would have to be left at home due to this reason. I guess some criminals or explorers might be okay laying low or staying with a bunch of female pirates who have a desire for some children, but I can't see that happening enough to propagate a species.

So there might be actual eggs in the "crow's nest?"

[Honest Tiefling]

Hrm. Probably going to go with the idea that harpies ARE all female...But some are biologically male, but rarer and do physically resemble females until the loinclothes come off. The vast majority would also identify as female, further confusing the issue. Female harpies are already lean for flight, and males would be very androgynous.

Short hair, practical clothing and a habit of stealing (mostly male) sailor's clothing as trophies only confuses the issue further. Mating with humans is indeed possible, but not needed for the continuation for their society. Stealing uncooperative males is very rare, as many harpies would not feel that the examples they could snatch would lead to good children, also, they can't drag off most human males (or females) that easily. There might be a few legends of human males or females joining with their tribes, but not a consistent pattern. The size of a human male or female might be appealing to a harpy in an exotic way, as they are all short and slender for flight.

Rescuing lost children raised among their tribes may be another possibility, for while they might not have gotten along with flightless races in the past, doesn't mean they wouldn't feel pity towards a child. As the child grows, they might just remain with their tribe and stay at home regardless of their sex or gender.

And of course, with an all-female race, marriages between women are not just allowed, but they might express confusion as to why it wouldn't be allowed.

Three, harpies are female sex (only) and female gender (primarily), and so you have a race of females. As you note, this would probably produce a very drow-like mindset, especially in looking down on men (not being harpies, among other things) and possibly having some captured or in a lower class in harpy society. You'd probably end up with something similar to drow society in treehouses, which does raise the question of why you would want to bother with it. Your group will certainly notice the similarity.

Hrm. Probably a strong emphasis on kinship bonds to reduce the stab-happy nature of the drow. You also can't take down a ship if you're worried about getting stabbed in the back. Also, due to being able to rest in cliffside caves, I could see a communal sense of property due to limited space.

Actually, I have to ask, why would this automatically result in a drow-like society? Just because its all female?

And thoughts on the race? It could establish more about the world itself, that would be hard to explain without more rambling.

[Steampunkette]

...I don't think he meant personal survival, but in order to bear offspring. And that's something both men and women have always been dependent on each other for. Not particularly creepy.

Maybe a bit disturbing for a human male who isn't into furries to have harpies trying to get into his pants, though...

No, no, just to make the offspring. I assume that a species with flight and a dexterity bonus would make for excellent pirates, but any males for reproduction would have to be left at home due to this reason. I guess some criminals or explorers might be okay laying low or staying with a bunch of female pirates who have a desire for some children, but I can't see that happening enough to propagate a species.

Oh, no. I understood, fully.

But you're dealing with a whole species that needs men from a DIFFERENT species to survive.

There's a lot of issues of coercive or violent rape, women actively begging for sex on a societal level, and other concepts that are pretty creepy tied up into it.

If it happened in real life it would be creepy (Mars needs your penis to survive!) but since it's also being done from the perspective of a writer creating a fantasy it's also got a whole lot of OTHER stuff tied into it, intentional or not.

[Honest Tiefling]

Oh, no. I understood, fully.

But you're dealing with a whole species that needs men from a DIFFERENT species to survive.

There's a lot of issues of coercive or violent rape, women actively begging for sex on a societal level, and other concepts that are pretty creepy tied up into it.

If it happened in real life it would be creepy (Mars needs your penis to survive!) but since it's also being done from the perspective of a writer creating a fantasy it's also got a whole lot of OTHER stuff tied into it, intentional or not.

I...Think that's extrapolating quite a lot. First, they don't need men to survive, they need males for babies to continue the species, slight difference. Secondly, the issue has less been begging for sex and just plain taking it. Also, despite the presence of wings I am not really sure they are a different species if they just inherited a curse.

Given many DnD settings have 'slightly weird humans' as a race, it could be seen as a different breed. Mentally, all of the same bits are present.

If anything, I think the complaint should be the fetishization of amazon like societies, where women come and violently take the men as a sexual fantasy.

Through now that I have thought about it, using male aarakorca as the males also presents the issue of the women being bangable, but the males not being attractive which is a trope I hate.

[Segev]

Oh, no. I understood, fully.

But you're dealing with a whole species that needs men from a DIFFERENT species to survive.

There's a lot of issues of coercive or violent rape, women actively begging for sex on a societal level, and other concepts that are pretty creepy tied up into it.

If it happened in real life it would be creepy (Mars needs your penis to survive!) but since it's also being done from the perspective of a writer creating a fantasy it's also got a whole lot of OTHER stuff tied into it, intentional or not.

It's interesting that you automatically assume it's "women begging for sex" and being coerced into being raped. I would have actually assumed, given harpy nature and...hygiene (even if you're into furries, harpies are said to be filthy and smelly)...that it's the males that're more likely to need coercion. Add in the harpies' charm songs and you get further into the rape being of the guys, not of the girls.

Now, of course rape is creepy, but harpies are traditionally villainous creatures, so then being creepy is not entirely unexpected. Wanting to avoid the subject is reasonable, however.

But to assume the rape-undertones are male-on-female in this case, as coupling it with "women begging for sex" implies, is a bit odd.


I mean, take your "if it happened in real life" example: "Mars needs your penis to survive!" immediately comes off as some sort of male power fantasy and is implied to be creepy because those martian women are "needy" or "desperate" for human males.

Play my favorite game with it: "Mars needs your uterus to survive!" doesn't, somehow, make the women the creepy ones for having desperate, needy martians pining for human females. It makes the martians creepy predators.

Why isn't "Mars needs your penis to survive!" making the martians the creepy predators?

[Steampunkette]

I...Think that's extrapolating quite a lot. First, they don't need men to survive, they need males for babies to continue the species, slight difference. Secondly, the issue has less been begging for sex and just plain taking it. Also, despite the presence of wings I am not really sure they are a different species if they just inherited a curse. Given many DnD settings have 'slightly weird humans' as a race, it could be seen as a different breed. Mentally, all of the same bits are present.

If anything, I think the complaint should be the fetishization of amazon like societies, where women come and violently take the men as a sexual fantasy.

Through now that I have thought about it, using male aarakorca as the males also presents the issue of the women being bangable, but the males not being attractive which is a trope I hate.

Yes. They need men to continue the species. I understand that. I said I understood that in the post you're quoting. What part of that makes you think I need you to tell me, again, that it's the continuation of the species?

That was a whole lot more condescending the third time someone said it than the first two... Good Lord.

And I disagree that it'd be the same thing, mentally. Or physically. All the feathers and stuff would kind of be all "Mmmmno. No. That's... nnnnoooo." Except for furries.

But yeah. Amazons "Taking the men" which would be the rape I referred to. Harpies "Taking the men" would be the rape I referred to. And my comment of "Perspective of the writer creating a fantasy" was the whole "Amazon Sexual Fantasy" and other issues I didn't want to outright state as a way of avoiding insulting you.

How about the aspect where all the women are constantly topless and showing off their boobs for prospective mates? That's got a ton of creep tied to it, as well, thanks to our society's fixation on breasts.

[Millstone85]

Reading this thread, I feel the need to bring up the illithids.

They are hermaphrodites whose mating produces an egg from which hatches a tadpole that is then implanted into the head of another creature, leading to a mental and physical transformation of the host. Non-humanoids become various illithid-like creatures, while humanoids either become conventional illithids or, more rarely, ulitharids.

Illithids gather into colonies, forming a hive mind of which a single ulitharid is the center. Soon, the ulitharid undergoes a second transformation and becomes a giant brain with tentacles, known as an elder brain.

Would that race have only one gender, which might be the same as no gender? Would ulitharidness be considered a distinct gender, as it is necessary for the "birth" of a new hive?

[Honest Tiefling]

Yes. They need men to continue the species. I understand that. I said I understood that in the post you're quoting. What part of that makes you think I need you to tell me, again, that it's the continuation of the species?

Because you mentioned 'survival'. The harpies, as presented, would be doing just fine without a male and don't need them hanging around for defense, religious purposes, or hunting. Which I assume would be a huge misstep of a single sexed race is to present the race as incapable of fulfilling a vital role in society, or doing the Dryad thing of having them enslave men. Also, Segev is not me, so I thought I would clarify that is not what I meant.

Also, probably because they were posted close together in time.

And I disagree that it'd be the same thing, mentally. Or physically. All the feathers and stuff would kind of be all "Mmmmno. No. That's... nnnnoooo." Except for furries.

What? If that was in reference to my comment, it was to mean that mentally, they are human. They might have different tastes in the physical form, but mentally, they think much like a human does.

Also, I think that sailors stuck at sea for a few months might be less picky. I mean they made up mermaids for crying out loud.

But yeah. Amazons "Taking the men" which would be the rape I referred to. Harpies "Taking the men" would be the rape I referred to. And my comment of "Perspective of the writer creating a fantasy" was the whole "Amazon Sexual Fantasy" and other issues I didn't want to outright state as a way of avoiding insulting you.

I'd rather be insulted then confused, sometimes. Also, I appreciate bluntness, so if something seems super creepy, I don't mind it being pointed out. But thank you for being considerate.

But how would Amazons be begging for sex? They just run up and take it, I thought. I guess maybe they put on Fedoras and claim that men only want *****es and whine on reddit, but I don't really see how 'begging' for sex applies?

[Steampunkette]

It's interesting that you automatically assume it's "women begging for sex" and being coerced into being raped. I would have actually assumed, given harpy nature and...hygiene (even if you're into furries, harpies are said to be filthy and smelly)...that it's the males that're more likely to need coercion. Add in the harpies' charm songs and you get further into the rape being of the guys, not of the girls.

... What the hell? Wh...

So... When I said "Coercive Rape" I was referring to the humans being coerced. Not humans coercing harpies. How the hell did you read that and turn it around?

As to the "Begging for Sex" it's literally a group of women who need human males to have sex with them to continue the species. If it ain't violent rape or coercive rape (with their charm magic) it'll be begging for impregnation. I.E. Someone the first two don't work on.

Now, of course rape is creepy, but harpies are traditionally villainous creatures, so then being creepy is not entirely unexpected. Wanting to avoid the subject is reasonable, however.

Rape is more than creepy. But rape isn't the thing I was referring to as being creepy, but rather the social commentary that comes with harpies requiring humans to propagate.

But to assume the rape-undertones are male-on-female in this case, as coupling it with "women begging for sex" implies, is a bit odd.

I still have no idea where the heck you got this from. Is it that you assumed I meant rape as male on female because that's the only way rape can occur? I really didn't. And I don't see how my statement made that come across in any way.

I mean, take your "if it happened in real life" example: "Mars needs your penis to survive!" immediately comes off as some sort of male power fantasy and is implied to be creepy because those martian women are "needy" or "desperate" for human males.

That EXACTLY why it's creepy, Segev. Like. Yes. That literally thing there. If you have a species which has no means of propagation you have an absolute timer on how long you can go before extinction occurs. If there's a solution to freaking extinction and someone else has control of it you're gonna be needy or desperate to get it. The fact that it's a sexual fantasy (Not Power) is what makes it creepy when you really examine it from the perspective of the writer. If it happened in reality it'd be creepy enough, due to our social mores as regards sex and sexuality.

Though it wouldn't be the man's fault for being a creep. It'd be the Martians that seem creepy. The men who leap at the chance to "Save Mars" might be seen as sleazy for taking advantage of the situation, though, if it's placed in a certain light?

But when it's a writer creating fantasy? Alllll those hangups are in play.

Play my favorite game with it: "Mars needs your uterus to survive!" doesn't, somehow, make the women the creepy ones for having desperate, needy martians pining for human females. It makes the martians creepy predators.

It probably has something to do with the result of the interactions, with the men being able to walk away without an issue while women have to then carry the baby to term and all.

Or it could be a part of how our society has evolved to take advantage of women for SO FREAKING LONG that it's creepy for a different reason.

Why isn't "Mars needs your penis to survive!" making the martians the creepy predators?

It is. I never said it wasn't.

I did say that when written as fantasy it takes on societal considerations, though, whether the writer intends them or not (Creepy male sexual fantasy).

[erikun]

Hrm. Probably going to go with the idea that harpies ARE all female...But some are biologically male, but rarer and do physically resemble females until the loinclothes come off. The vast majority would also identify as female, further confusing the issue. Female harpies are already lean for flight, and males would be very androgynous.

That sounds like it should work out. Especially since they are likely taking their culture from humanity (the first harpies having been human themselves) it would be understandable that they would all, or at least mostly, identify themselves as female-gender. Especialy if they all "look" female from a human perspective.

Also, having male (sex) harpies would avoid the worst of the problems with the race, such as requiring kidnapping/rape in order to reproduce.

Three, harpies are female sex (only) and female gender (primarily), and so you have a race of females. As you note, this would probably produce a very drow-like mindset, especially in looking down on men (not being harpies, among other things) and possibly having some captured or in a lower class in harpy society. You'd probably end up with something similar to drow society in treehouses, which does raise the question of why you would want to bother with it. Your group will certainly notice the similarity.

Hrm. Probably a strong emphasis on kinship bonds to reduce the stab-happy nature of the drow. You also can't take down a ship if you're worried about getting stabbed in the back. Also, due to being able to rest in cliffside caves, I could see a communal sense of property due to limited space.

Actually, I have to ask, why would this automatically result in a drow-like society? Just because its all female?

Similarities between the harpies and the drow was based on the assumption that male humans would be required in order to reproduce - that is, that the harpies could not reproduce on their own. If that were true, then it would require the harpies to either capture, enslave, or negotiate in order to produce breeding mates. The resulting society would have the (almost entirely) female harpies ruling things while the (almost entirely) males were either slaves or lower citizens. Combine that with a necessity towards slavery and/or kidnapping, and it would not be surprising that such a society would resemble how drow society works.

Of course, if you are allowing for male-sex harpies, then that elimiates that issue entirely. The harpies are not required to kidnap other species in order to reproduce, and so there is not xeno-centered reason to be baised against men in their society.

And thoughts on the race? It could establish more about the world itself, that would be hard to explain without more rambling.

Make sure the female:male ratio is not too extreme. 2:1 might still be fine, especially if none of your players really has a reason to be asking any questions. However, if you have something like 10:1 females to males, it would begin raising the question of why the (numerous, ruling) females would let the very rare males run around and potentially get hurt. The more rare the male harpies are, the more precious they would be and thus the more likely they would get specific treatment and you would begin to see a gender bias. If male harpies are still common enough that a female could reasonably find one, yet still in the minority, it would give the species the appearance of being mostly or all female (especially with them all identifying as female) without running into too much unexplained inconsistencies, for anyone who might ask.

[Steampunkette]

But how would Amazons be begging for sex? They just run up and take it, I thought. I guess maybe they put on Fedoras and claim that men only want *****es and whine on reddit, but I don't really see how 'begging' for sex applies?

Because if you're not strong enough to take it, or not magical enough to coerce it, your only recourse is to ask.

And since we're talking about a species that CANNOT PROPAGATE without human male participation we're looking at begging. Going from man to man asking for some sperm.

[Honest Tiefling]

Because if you're not strong enough to take it, or not magical enough to coerce it, your only recourse is to ask.

I must admit, I think I am very confused about your point. Firstly, you are assuming a female only race wouldn't have the ability to take what they want. Is it that you believe that a female only race is likely to be presented as militarily, tactically, economically, or financially inferior?

Secondly, I admit a great deal of confusion regarding the language of associating begging and rape. I think I need some more clarification.

[Millstone85]

I must admit, I think I am very confused about your point. Firstly, you are assuming a female only race wouldn't have the ability to take what they want. Is it that you believe that a female only race is likely to be presented as militarily, tactically, economically, or financially inferior?

Secondly, I admit a great deal of confusion regarding the language of associating begging and rape. I think I need some more clarification.

Steampunkette might be considering a scenario where the all-female race would not want to resort to rape, despite having the means. Because that would be, you know, the ethical thing to do. Alternatively, some all-female races would have the means and others wouldn't.

Then she explains how the non-rapist all-female race would inevitably be a victim instead. Maybe not of rape per say, but of an abusive relationship. Because being forever in the position of a beggar, the race could not build a proper relationship with humanity, even if no human purposely took advantage of this situation (and many would).

It would be the same with an all-male race, but the discussion is currently set on harpies.

That's how I read it.

[CharonsHelper]

Then she explains how the non-rapist all-female race would inevitably be a victim instead. Maybe not of rape per say, but of an abusive relationship. Because being forever in the position of a beggar, the race could not build a proper relationship with humanity, even if no human purposely took advantage of this situation (and many would).

It would be the same with an all-male race, but the discussion is currently set on harpies.

I think that's thinking in far too monolithic in groupings. By that logic applied at the personal level, anyone either male or female who wants kids is a beggar - because they have to go to the opposite gender to do so. (barring modern sperm banks etc.)

Especially if the female only species has a much lower population than the other species has, the number of males which they remove from circulation (for lack of a better term) would be rather insignificant.

Now - this is of course assuming that the males of the primary species find the female only species attractive and might want a relationship with one. Assuming that they do - I don't see it being an issue.

Now - if the female only species ARE a decent chunk of the two-species' population, I could see it leading to polygamy as there would basically be more female options than male ones. (Not the best thing in the world - but hardly the creepiness referenced earlier.)

[Millstone85]

I think that's thinking in far too monolithic in groupings. By that logic applied at the personal level, anyone either male or female who wants kids is a beggar - because they have to go to the opposite gender to do so. (barring modern sperm banks etc.)

Well, it is not at the personal level. Their species could go extinct if they don't get laid. Even if they are otherwise fine, it is not a pleasant thought to live with.

Especially if the female only species has a much lower population than the other species has, the number of males which they remove from circulation (for lack of a better term) would be rather insignificant.

Now - this is of course assuming that the males of the primary species find the female only species attractive and might want a relationship with one. Assuming that they do - I don't see it being an issue.

Now - if the female only species ARE a decent chunk of the two-species' population, I could see it leading to polygamy as there would basically be more female options than male ones. (Not the best thing in the world - but hardly the creepiness referenced earlier.)

This is largely the plot of Everyday Life with Monster Girls. I won't pretend it treats the subject right, since it is indeed softcore porn. But eh, guilty.

[Frozen_Feet]

Because if you're not strong enough to take it, or not magical enough to coerce it, your only recourse is to ask.

And since we're talking about a species that CANNOT PROPAGATE without human male participation we're looking at begging. Going from man to man asking for some sperm.

It's not begging. The right term is either dating or courting, provided the human men have no reason to take iniative.

I mean, come on. Like CharonsHelper noted, everybody who wants kids and doesn't have a line of potential suitors behind their door has to do this. Man, woman, human, animal, everybody... okay, save for the weirdoes who do mitosis or partheogenesis instead. Interspecies courting maybe weird from a biological viewpoint, but nothing about it is socially more creepy than intraspecies courting... untill we get to Xenomorphs or parasitic wasps, at least.

BTW, I've heard of at least two ant species for which interspecies courting is a must... because when a male fertilizes a female, the male's genetic material tries to completely replace the female's, and vice versa. This leads to all males being clones of their fathers, and all females being clones of their mothers, and apparently this dynamic has lasted long enough that on a genetic level, the males and females are different species.

But otherwise? Still ants.

[Segev]

Honestly, I don't see how it's any more or less creepy for a "monosex-only subspecies" to be dependent on mating with the opposite sex that only exists in the primary species than it is for the primary species's members of one sex to be dependent on mating with the other for that species's survival.

I certainly see how it could be fodder for somebody's fantasies, but so, too, would be a setting which created a dearth of one sex in order to make individual members of the rare sex more "needed."

If, for example, harpies could have male human kids as well as female harpy kids, the male human harpy-sons would keep the numbers roughly equal and would - assuming there were male humans who found harpies attractive (perhaps amongst those born to and raised by them) - keep it from being anything more than a point of interest.

Making it a race of rapine is squicky, but the "classic" explanation for half-orcs is equally squicky for exactly the same reason, and we don't say "ew don't have orcs be that way!" on that basis alone.

[CharonsHelper]

If, for example, harpies could have male human kids as well as female harpy kids, the male human harpy-sons would keep the numbers roughly equal and would - assuming there were male humans who found harpies attractive (perhaps amongst those born to and raised by them) - keep it from being anything more than a point of interest.

Actually - would they even be a different species at that point from a biological point of view even if they didn't ever have sons? At most they'd be a sub-species like dogs/wolves. They'd just be females which have a REALLY odd trait which is 100% passed on to their daughters. (I believe that biologically you're the same species if your offspring could eventually mate with each-other.)

[Honest Tiefling]

It's not begging. The right term is either dating or courting, provided the human men have no reason to take iniative.

I imagined harpies to often take the form as depicted on the Burney Relief , to avoid issues of penalties to disarming traps or wearing certain magical items. I guess shoes and cloaks are out, but I think most everything else could be workable. This removes the Mermaid Dilemma from the equation, so I imagine getting the species to survive via throwing money at guys or other means would be far more viable. Heck, male prostitution might even be a factor.

Through this conversation is really making me lean to the idea that while everyone is female, some of them just have different equipment. The idea that they kidnap males could be a myth regarding them that other people made up, unaware that such was really not a viable or necessary option. Could even be a story of a crew mutinying and trying to offer their captain over as tribute for safe passage, probably to the confusion of various parties.

Actually - would they even be a different species at that point from a biological point of view even if they didn't ever have sons? At most they'd be a sub-species like dogs/wolves. They'd just be females which have a REALLY odd trait which is 100% passed on to their daughters. (I believe that biologically you're the same species if your offspring could eventually mate with each-other.)

I think at the point divine curses or other forms of magic are entering the equation there needs to be a better definition of species.

[Millstone85]

Actually - would they even be a different species at that point from a biological point of view even if they didn't ever have sons? At most they'd be a sub-species like dogs/wolves. They'd just be females which have a REALLY odd trait which is 100% passed on to their daughters. (I believe that biologically you're the same species if your offspring could eventually mate with each-other.)

In the case where they can have human sons, we are getting to the half-elf problem.

If half-elves can procreate with humans, elves and other half-elves, then the continuing existence of distinct fantasy races can become a matter of, well, racism. Preserving the purity of elven blood and all that.

I suppose that would happen with these harpies too, with the twist that only "the female human" would feel threatened.

[Steampunkette]

Millstone more or less got what I was trying to say.

And I was going off D&D's Chaotic Evil greasy nasty cruel harpies who sing their charming song and lead people off cliffs.

Chaotic Evil doesn't "Date".

(Of course you could argue that a given chaotic evil person would date, but this would be a seriously different situation.)

But yeah. Then there's the whole "Fantasy Racism" thing and the issue of harpies and their position within (Or in opposition to) society.

If Harpies -are- the CE "Lure people off cliffs to laugh as they plummet and pick goods off their body" type of being, dating one would be akin to dating a member of a whole species of serial killers and rapists... At least with dating an orc you can blame the endless fighting on land or resources, divine arguments, or other things that warring nations dealt with in reality.

A whole race of people who cackle in glee as they magically make men leap to their doom, use magic or violence to commit rape to propagate their own species, and are literal monstrosities (Like, the Creature Type)...

I don't see there being people who'd date, there, outside of the extreme Romeo and Juliet rarity (And we all know how that one ended)

[kopout]

In that case though "they can only reproduce by rape" is caused by the fact that they are not just a monosex race but a sadistic serial killer monosex race. A monosex race with a more neutral alignment wouldn't necessarily have those problems.

[Grim Portent]

There is a narrative place for races that must reproduce with other species, but it's probably not one of players and protagonists.

By their nature a species that needs the men/women of other peoples to survive is going to have to make some very dark choices as a society, especially if they aren't physically appealing, and that alone makes them more suited to antagonists, tragic ones if cursed to be the way they are, otherwise just monsters really.

D&D harpies and the old Warhammer Fantasy fimir for example are not exactly what springs to mind when words like hero, or nice, or attractive are thrown around. Unless you preface them with the word not.


A mono-gendered species needs to be either part of the society it breeds with, so breeding is just a normal part of their life and they have no drive to preserve their way of life because it's part of the wider society, or needs to reproduce independent of other species. Otherwise any time the population drops a bit they're going to get desperate, and that will lead to uncomfortable implications.

In this case Tiefling, since you seem to want harpies to be playable and not be evil or particularly tragic, I'd suggest having them just be a type of human as far as most are concerned. If they're descended from a curse and driven out of their original society, why wouldn't they just move into the fringes of another society? I could see enclaves of harpies renting cheap living spaces on peoples roofs and living as part of human society, though likely as an underclass. As long as the population is big enough, and they're not scorned by normal humans too badly, they could continue the same way normal humans do fairly easily. Drunken flings, actual romantic connection, casual rolls in the hay, arranged marriages and so on as part of being human would provide more than enough sexual partners to produce young, especially if they have more than one child at a time.

[Honest Tiefling]

Well, I feel a little silly. I probably should have specified that while they ARE harpies, they would be adapted for the campaign for the following reasons:

1) While I have issues with the Aarakorca race speaking without lips, I thought that the harpy would be an excellent replacement for the stats. (Also, I wanted it to not feel like Forgotten Realms)
2) Plenty of artwork of winged humanoids for tokens, provided one is willing to crop the feet. (For Roll20, feet are not needed)
3) My group knows how to pronounce the word and will remember what race is the winged woman race.

So they would occupy a niche closer to a very humanoid kobold or goblin: Pushed to the edges of civilization, they had few resources, forcing many into scavenging or piracy. Over generations they have not had a great reputation due to these actions, but are no more or less evil then humans. Of late, a religious organization has decided to ally with a group (but not all) harpies to fend off merfolk, who view all land based races as a potential food source to establish to the players that merfolk really are nasty things and to allow the harpy player option.

Also explains why a lot of people believe all harpies to be physically female, as I would imagine that a race with flight is uninclined to have junk in the trunk and can be easily confused with clothing.

If they're descended from a curse and driven out of their original society, why wouldn't they just move into the fringes of another society?

Because not all of the other societies are friendly places, either.

I could see enclaves of harpies renting cheap living spaces on peoples roofs and living as part of human society, though likely as an underclass.

Love the idea of harpies on roofs.

As long as the population is big enough, and they're not scorned by normal humans too badly, they could continue the same way normal humans do fairly easily. Drunken flings, actual romantic connection, casual rolls in the hay, arranged marriages and so on as part of being human would provide more than enough sexual partners to produce young, especially if they have more than one child at a time.

The problem I have with the later is that multiple births aren't even a good thing for humans, and I imagine that smaller humans (for flight!) would not be a good place to find twins.

[Grim Portent]

The problem I have with the later is that multiple births aren't even a good thing for humans, and I imagine that smaller humans (for flight!) would not be a good place to find twins.

I was assuming they'd lay eggs, which is far less taxing on the body per offspring than live birth is. Even a small human could probably lay 2-3 eggs the size of an ostrich one quite easily, for a given value of easily anyway. More if they do it over the course of a few days or weeks.

They'd need to be well fed of course, egg yolk is very energy rich and takes a lot out of the mother, as does the calcium expenditure, you basically dump all the energy needs of pregnancy into a period of a few weeks, but it's much easier to get multiple babies that way.

It would also result in a smaller baby relative to a normal one, but that's been a perfectly workable method for birds and reptiles in the real world for millennia.

[zeek0]

I once encountered a homebrew race that was radically different than way has been mentioned. A vanilla race was cursed, causing some number of female babies to be scorpion-woman-centaur things. At birth these would be given to their fellow cursed, which had a society and culture removed. The cursed offspring are infertile.

So they don't reproduce on their own, but still have unique physical and cultural characteristics. It would be a stretch to call it a matriarchy, since there's no other gender present.

[GloatingSwine]

So I am trying to make a singled gendered race for a homebrew setting. Reading about some examples on TVtropes has made me question if this is a good idea, and if they can be done well. Anyone want to give me advice on how to make an appealing and interesting race?

A one gender race probably isn't a good idea.

Extreme sexual dimorphism, now that's got possibilities. The male and female of a species being so completely different that they're hard to recognise as the same at all. (as an eg. in Charles Stross' Equoid unicorns are a species with extreme sexual dimorphism. The horn is actually the male of the species, or rather it's shell after the actual male has been absorbed like with anglerfish.)