Funny bits of canon D&D 3.5 lore

[Vizzerdrix]

I can't believe I forgot about Cas, the moose-headed god of spite. Sure, moose can be quite stubborn and spiteful (some will challenge air planes for mates), but...It needs a bit more to be taken seriously.

As someone who has come face to face with a moose, I can assure you that I take them very seriously.

Im also a big fan of Cas, for what it is worth. Definately my diety of choice when I feel like going rp heavy and for also letting the party know I do not intend to be thier band aid.

[Vizzerdrix]

Welll... maybe it's like Dwarves. Dwarven women have beards, Gnomish men have breasts.

Anything official to back this up?

[Necroticplague]

Anything official to back this up?

Could just be a trans male gnome in an oddly progressive note.

[The Viscount]

Anything official to back this up?

Probably just joking about the scene in LOTR.

There are plenty of examples of dwarven women in the books, and none of them have beards. There's one present in the DMG, and of course my favorite example
Oviff Forigril, sample Ollam, and Lucana Silverson, sample Battlesmith. Separated at birth? Is one a clone?

[atemu1234]

Could just be a trans male gnome in an oddly progressive note.

I'd put the odds of WotC trying to be progressive a few digits behind them just messing up on a word or two when they made a description for the art department. They probably forgot to mention gender and figured no one would care more than anything else.

Not that I wouldn't love it if they did have a canonical trans character, but I doubt it.

[Thurbane]

...and let's make sure we don't confuse Cas with Kas.

Spoiler

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[danielxcutter]

...and let's make sure we don't confuse Cas with Kas.

Spoiler

Show

Uh, sorry, but I don't know that much about D&D lore.

[Thurbane]

Uh, sorry, but I don't know that much about D&D lore.

Cas is a weird Moose-headed god of spite in Heroes of Horror.

Kas was the original wielder of the artifact, The Sword of Kas. He was the general of Vecna, before he was a god. He turned against Vecna a destroyed him with The Sword.

[danielxcutter]

Cas is a weird Moose-headed god of spite in Heroes of Horror.

Kas was the original wielder of the artifact, The Sword of Kas. He was the general of Vecna, before he was a god. He turned against Vecna a destroyed him with The Sword.

Oh, I see. What could the artifact do, btw?

[hamishspence]

Oh, I see. What could the artifact do, btw?

It varies enormously from edition to edition:

http://greyhawkery.blogspot.co.uk/20...-editions.html

but it was most often a +6 intelligent weapon.

[danielxcutter]

It varies enormously from edition to edition:

http://greyhawkery.blogspot.co.uk/20...-editions.html

but it was most often a +6 intelligent weapon.

Whoa, the basic enhancements are +14 alone, and +10 strength requires a decently high-epic magic item. And it has tons of SLAs. The only default weapon I've seen that's comparable to that is the Gloom's +10 human dread dagger.

[hamishspence]

+6 enhancement bonus (so, overcoming DR/epic in 3.5) was what I was thinking of as the most common trait (along with intelligence) - every version up till 4e has it - 4e drops it to +5 (though it does go up to +6 when Pleased with the wielder).

[Inevitability]

Oh, I see. What could the artifact do, btw?

In 5e, it's the only thing that can permanently destroy Vecna's Hand and Eye (two other artifacts).

[Venger]

In 5e, it's the only thing that can permanently destroy Vecna's Hand and Eye (two other artifacts).

how do you destroy his head though?

[Inevitability]

how do you destroy his head though?

Why would you want to destroy it? The thing's hilarious.

[Gildedragon]

how do you destroy his head though?

You destroy it by putting it on and having it be the focus of the kissed by the ages spell targeted to you

[Darrin]

According to the Companion D&D set the Known World (i.e. Mystara before it became hollow) is actually the real world earth hundreds of thousands of years ago in the age before magic died out (the Companion set world map is a direct continent position extrapolation).

It's a bit more complicated than that. The continents of Mystara were based roughly on what the Earth looked like 135 million years ago. When TSR rebranded the Known World as Mystara in the 90's, they re-fluffed a lot of the older D&D modules into the world, including the DA1-4 series based on Dave Arneson's original Blackmoor campaign, which goes back to the original 1974 edition of Dungeons & Dragons (the brown box with booklets edition, not the 1978 "white box" edition). Supplement II: Blackmoor contained the first adventure published by TSR, "Temple of the Frog". It was... very weird.

In the original Temple of the Frog, the PCs encounter a villain "from another world/dimension", Saint Stephen of the Rock. He had "magical" armor that allowed him to fly around, made him immune to magic/mental/energy attacks, and had a "sword" that shot laser beams. Thousands of years ago, the FSS Beagle (a reference to A.E. van Vogt's "Voyage of the Space Beagle", which was itself a reference to Darwin's HMS Beagle) crash-landed on planet Mystara. (Incidentally, the "Voyage of the Space Beagle" is considered by some to be the inspiration behind the chest-bursters in the movie "Alien".) Arneson asked Stephen Rocheford, one of his players, to create a new villain for his campaign. So Rocheford created Saint Stephen of the Rock based loosely on himself and, oddly enough, the Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk runs into Space Nazis.

The FSS Beagle was a survey ship from the Galactic Federation, which was an offshoot of John Snider's "Star Empires" campaign. The Galactic Federation sounds very similar to the Star Trek Federation of Planets, because after the Beagle crashes, Captain Bork Riesling (a Robert Heinlein reference) attempts to put the entire crew into suspended animation to observe a directive very similar to the "Prime Directive": do not allow any primitive cultures to acquire advanced Federation technology. Stephen Rocklin, the ship's security officer, disagrees and attempts a mutiny against Captain Riesling. The mutiny fails but Rocklin and five other mutineers escape and manage to take over a monastery in a swamp. He uses advanced technology to genetically breed the frogs in the swamp into bigger killer frogs (possibly inspired by the Deep Ones from H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos).

In the original supplement, the Temple of the Frog is full of hundreds of soldiers and thousands of killer frogs, with very little instruction on how the PCs are supposed to deal with them, as anything involving a frontal assault is pure suicide. Apparently the players were supposed to infiltrate the temple to learn more about Saint Stephen's frog army, then come back later with an actual army of their own, at which point the rules would switch over to Chainmail and they'd fight out the actual battle with wargame rules rather than RPG rules.

The Blackmoor material was later reworked into "DA2: Temple of the Frog", a module for the "Expert" D&D game (Basic/Expert/Companion/Master/Immortal Box Sets). This involves sending the PCs 3000 years into the past for... reasons. Well, mostly to deal with Saint Stephen's Order of the Frog about 5 years after the failed mutiny against Captain Riesling.

"DA3: City of the Gods" involves Rocklin's attempt to use his Order of the Frog to infiltrate and seize control of the FSS Beagle away from Captain Riesling. "DA4: Duchy of Ten" doesn't involve any sci-fi elements, and Arneson wasn't involved with it. Mostly it's a standard "throw the powerful artifact into the volcano" quest. "DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor" mostly deals with the Inn Between Worlds (the time travel/gate device used to transport the PCs back and forth through time periods), and digging through a mind-numbing amount of backstory involving NPCs and nations with various races and cultures and wars and events and... ugh! And all this crap happened 3000 years *before* the current Known World which of course has its own NPCs and nations and various races and cultures and events.

Only in D&D do you have to go 3000 years *INTO THE PAST* to bling out your PCs with laser rifles, power armor, and plasma grenades.

Somewhat oddly, given all that sci-fi background, the Mystara campaign world does *not* contain a miniature giant space hamster named Boo. That's part of the canon in the Forgotten Realms.

[Sagetim]

It's a bit more complicated than that. The continents of Mystara were based roughly on what the Earth looked like 135 million years ago. When TSR rebranded the Known World as Mystara in the 90's, they re-fluffed a lot of the older D&D modules into the world, including the DA1-4 series based on Dave Arneson's original Blackmoor campaign, which goes back to the original 1974 edition of Dungeons & Dragons (the brown box with booklets edition, not the 1978 "white box" edition). Supplement II: Blackmoor contained the first adventure published by TSR, "Temple of the Frog". It was... very weird.

In the original Temple of the Frog, the PCs encounter a villain "from another world/dimension", Saint Stephen of the Rock. He had "magical" armor that allowed him to fly around, made him immune to magic/mental/energy attacks, and had a "sword" that shot laser beams. Thousands of years ago, the FSS Beagle (a reference to A.E. van Vogt's "Voyage of the Space Beagle", which was itself a reference to Darwin's HMS Beagle) crash-landed on planet Mystara. (Incidentally, the "Voyage of the Space Beagle" is considered by some to be the inspiration behind the chest-bursters in the movie "Alien".) Arneson asked Stephen Rocheford, one of his players, to create a new villain for his campaign. So Rocheford created Saint Stephen of the Rock based loosely on himself and, oddly enough, the Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk runs into Space Nazis.

The FSS Beagle was a survey ship from the Galactic Federation, which was an offshoot of John Snider's "Star Empires" campaign. The Galactic Federation sounds very similar to the Star Trek Federation of Planets, because after the Beagle crashes, Captain Bork Riesling (a Robert Heinlein reference) attempts to put the entire crew into suspended animation to observe a directive very similar to the "Prime Directive": do not allow any primitive cultures to acquire advanced Federation technology. Stephen Rocklin, the ship's security officer, disagrees and attempts a mutiny against Captain Riesling. The mutiny fails but Rocklin and five other mutineers escape and manage to take over a monastery in a swamp. He uses advanced technology to genetically breed the frogs in the swamp into bigger killer frogs (possibly inspired by the Deep Ones from H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos).

In the original supplement, the Temple of the Frog is full of hundreds of soldiers and thousands of killer frogs, with very little instruction on how the PCs are supposed to deal with them, as anything involving a frontal assault is pure suicide. Apparently the players were supposed to infiltrate the temple to learn more about Saint Stephen's frog army, then come back later with an actual army of their own, at which point the rules would switch over to Chainmail and they'd fight out the actual battle with wargame rules rather than RPG rules.

The Blackmoor material was later reworked into "DA2: Temple of the Frog", a module for the "Expert" D&D game (Basic/Expert/Companion/Master/Immortal Box Sets). This involves sending the PCs 3000 years into the past for... reasons. Well, mostly to deal with Saint Stephen's Order of the Frog about 5 years after the failed mutiny against Captain Riesling.

"DA3: City of the Gods" involves Rocklin's attempt to use his Order of the Frog to infiltrate and seize control of the FSS Beagle away from Captain Riesling. "DA4: Duchy of Ten" doesn't involve any sci-fi elements, and Arneson wasn't involved with it. Mostly it's a standard "throw the powerful artifact into the volcano" quest. "DA1: Adventures in Blackmoor" mostly deals with the Inn Between Worlds (the time travel/gate device used to transport the PCs back and forth through time periods), and digging through a mind-numbing amount of backstory involving NPCs and nations with various races and cultures and wars and events and... ugh! And all this crap happened 3000 years *before* the current Known World which of course has its own NPCs and nations and various races and cultures and events.

Only in D&D do you have to go 3000 years *INTO THE PAST* to bling out your PCs with laser rifles, power armor, and plasma grenades.

Somewhat oddly, given all that sci-fi background, the Mystara campaign world does *not* contain a miniature giant space hamster named Boo. That's part of the canon in the Forgotten Realms.

Don't forget that capcom brought us two action beat em up arcade games set in Mystara and including such elements as scantily clad drow riding fire breathing drakes(?), scantily clad sorceress BBEG who has sleep spells that can even hit elves, scantily clad midboss dark elf guy and, don't forget his equally scantily clad pallete swap good elf counterpart that saves you in the first fight with him. Oh, and an over the ground train that zooms along at something like 60 miles an hour given how fast the background passes by, and not just one air ship, but an entire fleet of airships with guns so potent they shoot a world ending apocalypse demon to death. You know, the one you were supposed to stop. Oh, and there's the disappearing reappearing thief, who wasn't even in the first game at all, but got retconned into having been in that adventure so that she could pull out a macguffin conveniently near the end of the story in game 2.

Ah yes, and there were no magic users in the first game. Just Elf, Dwarf, Fighter, and Cleric. What do you mean those classes sound racist? Elf and Dwarf are quite decent classes. Why, the Dwarf has more hp, and the elf not only has a sword, she also can cast magic user spells. And levels slowly. And doesn't get any of the best ones in either of the games.

Oh, and Mystara in the games references The Immortals instead of any deities. So that cleric that you can run through both games as and spam turn undead with? He's not praying to gods for spells. He's praying to immortal beings who seem to have a penchant for doling out cryptic hints instead of giving anyone solid answers about anything. Did I mention there's a holy avenger in there but no Paladin class? And it starts as a cursed sword that can only be uncursed by having someone playing the cleric try to pick it up 7 times. As compared to the other cursed sword, that gets uncursed by swinging it and taking damage until it decides you've wasted enough lives (and quarters) to justify having it be useful.

There's also a spell in the second game that only the magic user can cast, but it instantly kills the final boss. If you hit with it. And to activate it you have to get the staff of wizardry, which breaks on casting it. And you need a team of four players. And they need to activate it with you at the same time to cast it. And it eats everyone's hp down to like, 1. So yeah, don't miss.

[Thurbane]

In the original Temple of the Frog, the PCs encounter a villain "from another world/dimension", Saint Stephen of the Rock. He had "magical" armor that allowed him to fly around, made him immune to magic/mental/energy attacks, and had a "sword" that shot laser beams. Thousands of years ago, the FSS Beagle (a reference to A.E. van Vogt's "Voyage of the Space Beagle", which was itself a reference to Darwin's HMS Beagle) crash-landed on planet Mystara. (Incidentally, the "Voyage of the Space Beagle" is considered by some to be the inspiration behind the chest-bursters in the movie "Alien".) Arneson asked Stephen Rocheford, one of his players, to create a new villain for his campaign. So Rocheford created Saint Stephen of the Rock based loosely on himself and, oddly enough, the Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk runs into Space Nazis.

Wow, thanks for this background. I recently (last year) read Voyage of the Space Beagle. Neat to know that it inspired such a classic D&D adventure.

Spoiler: off topic

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I also had heard that VotSB was a major influence on Alien: after reading it, I can see some small amount of similarity, but not so much as some of the reviews I had read led me to believe.

[Zombimode]

Spoiler: off topic

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I also had heard that VotSB was a major influence on Alien: after reading it, I can see some small amount of similarity, but not so much as some of the reviews I had read led me to believe.

Spoiler: More OT

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It is probably similar to the relationship between the novel Roadside Picnic, the movie Stalker and the game series S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Regarding Temple of the Frog: thanks for the interesting details. I've read through the TSR module a while ago and for some reason I was under the Impression that it was based in Greyhawk.

[Darrin]

Regarding Temple of the Frog: thanks for the interesting details. I've read through the TSR module a while ago and for some reason I was under the Impression that it was based in Greyhawk.

It was in both campaign worlds: Greyhawk and in the Known World. When the Greyhawk map was published, Blackmoor was placed in one of the corners of the northern arctic region. Presumably this was to allow players who were already playing in Arneson's campaign world to also purchase and use any Greyhawk material, and vice versa. Other than being put on the map and the original 1974 "Supplement II", I don't think TSR released any Blackmoor-specific material for Greyhawk. Arneson's group was located in the Twin Cities area, and he only worked at TSR up until 1980ish, so once he left I would guess there was no Blackmoor-related material in the pipeline.

In 1986, Arneson's Blackmoor material was adapted for Mentzer's Companion Rules and folded into the "Known World" campaign setting. Presumably the product line manager for the D&D Basic game needed to put some Companion-level modules on the production schedule, called up Arneson to see if he could adapt Temple of the Frog, and Arneson said, "Sure! Go for it!"

[Honest Tiefling]

As someone who has come face to face with a moose, I can assure you that I take them very seriously.

I'm still not taking Mister-Imma-throw-a-tantrum-until-I'm-a-god, even if I would run away from a moose if I saw one. I mean, I live in California, if that thing is coming for me it's very determined.

Im also a big fan of Cas, for what it is worth. Definately my diety of choice when I feel like going rp heavy and for also letting the party know I do not intend to be thier band aid.

Please tell me you have some sort of bad-*** spin on it.

how do you destroy his head though?

Give it to Kender.

[danielxcutter]

In Korea, Cass is a beer company.

[Honest Tiefling]

In Korea, Cass is a beer company.

Fitting. I assume most moose are angry drunks and that does suit the god.

[MHCD]

...and let's make sure we don't confuse Cas with Kas.

Spoiler

Show

How could we forget Cass, the seraph of Thursday!



I was always amused to read in Lords of Madness of Illithids hailing from the future, particularly how that is the reason why, "...the inscrutable mind flayers are the race that aboleths come the closest to fearing", as the old ones have no racial memory of Illithid origins.

Drow matriarchy has always been interesting to me, and the line in DotU, "Thus, the females, who are both essential to reproduction and capable of withstanding it, are clearly both stronger and more blessed than the males" always makes me smile.

[danielxcutter]

How could we forget Cass, the seraph of Thursday!



I was always amused to read in Lords of Madness of Illithids hailing from the future, particularly how that is the reason why, "...the inscrutable mind flayers are the race that aboleths come the closest to fearing", as the old ones have no racial memory of Illithid origins.

Drow matriarchy has always been interesting to me, and the line in DotU, "Thus, the females, who are both essential to reproduction and capable of withstanding it, are clearly both stronger and more blessed than the males" always makes me smile.

Woah, Illithids are from the future? That explains a bit.

As for the Drow, I'm honestly surprised why reality isn't like this a bit more.

[Honest Tiefling]

And capable of withstanding it...

Uh, last I checked, men were far less likely to die during childbirth on average. Or do drow women practice snoo-snoo?

[Venger]

Woah, Illithids are from the future? That explains a bit.

As for the Drow, I'm honestly surprised why reality isn't like this a bit more.

I thought it was canon that illithids are humans from very far in the future and have evolved to be very mind-based with scrawny bodies like in mars attacks.

I never saw this in any of the 3e books, so assumed it was a relic from spelljammer or something. is this true?

[atemu1234]

I thought it was canon that illithids are humans from very far in the future and have evolved to be very mind-based with scrawny bodies like in mars attacks.

I never saw this in any of the 3e books, so assumed it was a relic from spelljammer or something. is this true?

Well, they aren't exactly human-descended, and they're implied to be warped from the trip into what they are nowadays.

[Telok]

Well if you take all the old Spelljammer stuff as cannon there's some seriously weird crap out there.

The mountain ash tree has bunches of red berries, and it keeps some of them into the winter. They eventually ferment a bit. Moose like the taste. Drunk irritable moose are a thing around here.