Europa Universalis IV Thread 4: Divine Wind

[Nerd-o-rama]

Was messing around with Brandenburg this weekend. I'm still not very good at this game, but I did manage to form Prussia. I don't have the Cossacks so I can pretty much use Austria and Poland as attack dogs to get the needed territory very quickly (even with the Cossacks I assume I could just offer Poland parts of Teuton territory and then beat up Pomerania by myself).

Then I watched a 40 minute video on HRE mechanics and still didn't understand them so I just started conquering stuff.

I did have some impressive luck there. No Polish-Lithuanian PU, France is dead, Burgundy is somehow still alive (and splitting France with their rival, England). I'm continuing with that game mostly to see where European politics goes rather than because I have a particularly good base/pace going.

[Sian]

I'm mildly confused ... the whole of your post sounds like you want someone to assess your play and help you understand something, but I can't quite understand what you want the help for, other than something vaguely surrounding HRE ...

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'm exhausted and vaguely rambling about my still-noobish gameplay experience in a game that hasn't it 1550 yet. It's not important.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Just sharing is a thing, don't fret.

I'm playing a MEIOU game as Alwa, and it's... tricky. Unifying Nubia is easy, my borders were pretty much modern Sudan (minus South Sudan). But Nubia starts out as basically tribal, with advanced Ethiopia and Mamluks on either side of me. Luckily the Mamluks are a paper tiger, and after a vicious plague swept through Egypt killing about a tenth of their population, the Hafsids, the Rassids and I have basically taken to dismantling them. Now all the Nile is mine up to the Delta, which is still Mamluk!

My original plan was to have two cities, my capital of Soba (outside modern day Khartoum), and Dongola, but Dongola was close enough to Egypt to get hit by the plague pretty hard, so it's pretty much a ruined shell of a city now. Shame. Well, Soba has 50k people in it, which is the largest city south of Cairo (a sad 80k after plague and multiple sackings, down from it's game-start population of 350k), north of Kilwa (60k in modern Tanzania), west of Sanaa (50k, capital of massive Rassid empire), east of Kanem (60k, lake Chad is rich yo)

Meanwhile, in West Africa, I've been excited to watch how dynamic the population mechanics make the region; Several regions in West Africa, specifically along Lake Chad and the ***** River, have quite a few major cities, and the Oyo tribe has actually become a huge empire in modern Nigeria, pretty much unifying the Yorumba people, and tripling in size from their original start position. Meanwhile, Northern Africa has condensed into two powerful tribes, who've done a strange switch. The Hafsids have, well, lost their dynasty, and are now the Abdulwadids/Zayyanids, and control all of Tunisia and Libya, as far as the Nile Delta. Tlemcen have lost their previous Abdulwadid/Zayyanid dynasty, and now the "Essaids" (Is that supposed to be al-Sayyids?) control all of Algeria and the vast majority of Morocco and Mauritania.

Largest cities in Africa are pretty impressive to be honest.

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In addition to the cities listed above, there's major cities in Fes (70k, former capital of the Marinids, sacked from it's original 120k), Tlemcen (50k, capital), Tunis (60k, capital), Niani (90k, the capital of the Mali Empire, up from 50k), Timbuktu (50k, still in Mali), Kano (70k! Capital of the tribe of the same name, up from 30k), Zazzau (50k, Capital of the tribe of the same name), Nufi (50k, former capital of the Nupe tribe), but most shockingly, Oyo-Ile, with 110k residents, doubled what it starts as!

10 Largest cities in Europe:

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Paris (170k), Granada (160k), Milan (140k), Florence (120k), Venice (110k), Genoa (100k), Kaffa (100k, a Genoese colony in the Crimea), Naples (100k) Toledo (90k), Constantinople (90k),

6 largest cities in Asia

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Baghdad (170k), Tabriz, Azerbaijan (150k), Bursa, Turkey (100k), Isfahan, Persia (100k), Izmir, Turkey (100k), Shiraz, Persia (70k)

[russdm]

Wondering what would be the most effective Daimyo to use for unifying Japan and then getting started on expanding into the Pacific. Does it matter as far as starting date goes? I have seen a YouTube video of a Japanese empire timelapse so was curious for advice.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Before MoH, I always went Uesugi in 1444 (plenty big, good ruler, easy access to Takeda's gold mine). I haven't bought Mandate of Heaven, though, and I'm not messing around in East Asia again until I do, so I haven't tried since they added all the new guys and new shogun interactions.

[Sian]

Inspired by the previous Dev Diary (realignment of Arabia) I've restarted after a short break (where I've focused on Stellaris ... which probably aren't saturated enough (both in event-weight and AI competence) for my continued playing) finally getting around getting "Third Way" Achievement, which is the one where you have to eradicate Sunni and Shia as an Ibadi nation and decided to play Oman ... some 80 years in and I've swapped Culture to Baluchi with the intention of forming Mughals soonish, currently beating up Delhi for Lahore and Sirhind, Timurids are chaining Civil wars (at 0 Horde unity and -3 Stab) so Roh should be fairly trivial to conquer, but Jaunpur (which owns Central Doab and Dehli) is annoying enough to have allied Ottos (who decided to hate me for our ugly border in Iraq which happened because they ate the bits of Timurids that didn't secede from Persia's first independence rebellion, immediately after I had conquered up through Persia), so I'm looking into what would be the least clunky way to take those provinces without Ottomans being invited to the war. Colonizing Andamans and get a claim on Pegu (who are one of their other allies), and seperate peacing Jaunpur for removing their alliance with them seems to be the best way ... and at the same time this would mean that I can start claiming on Indonesia.
In fear of Ottomans declaring on me, I've felt forced to become a tributary of Ming :S

[Leecros]

Well, i'm continuing my Ottoman Conquest attempt and it's now coming up on 1625. I haven't really played it much as World conquests really just feel like a chore sometimes...

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As you can see, I haven't really expanded a whole lot. (for reference, here's my empire 50 years earlier).

I'm not super happy with my expansion rate...especially in areas such as India and Central Asia. I ran into an unexpected problem in Ming. Ming has most of northern India and the entirety of Central Asia as their Tributary. This means that any war that I wage in that region; they get involved.

Let me emphasize that I can beat Ming in a war. I have done it twice now. However, every war that they get involved with means several years of pushing them back out of the region i want to attack(and sometimes sneaky armies that take a more northerly approach) and just a huge headache in general until I push them out of the war.

I should probably focus on breaking them. I think my next war is going to be pushing through The Oirat so that I can border them and then invade through their realm before they build level 8 Forts everywhere.

To the west, I have made some important inroads in Italy and the most important acquisitions: Poland and Aragon are my vassals. I used Reconquest to rip a large chunk of land out of Spain and intend to do the same to the Teutonic Order and Bohemia(betraying my long-term ally)

I'm less worried about Europe than i am about Asia and the New World(which i have no map information on yet :/). I plan on making France an ally to protect myself from any major Coalitions and can always create Client Kingdoms in that region once Imperialism comes around.

for the New World, I'm hoping that Spain's colonies will break free in the next 50 years or so and cause problems for other colonial powers in that region.

Ming is the big frustration i think. If i manage to break Ming's power on India, then I'll be able to sweep through there with little resistance.

Years Left: 195

[Akisa]

I'm currently staying with patch 1.18 due to no longer liking the balance changes, DLC spam.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah I'm considering a rollback to 1.19 because Mandate of Heaven feels like a mandatory (see what I did there?) patch at this point and I really don't want to pay full price for it.

(See also Lee's problems with Ming; they were a lot more of a paper tiger before the MoH patch and they apparently become a huge nuisance now without owning MoH and having the option to go to war to seize the Emperor of China title.)

[Leecros]

(See also Lee's problems with Ming; they were a lot more of a paper tiger before the MoH patch and they apparently become a huge nuisance now without owning MoH and having the option to go to war to seize the Emperor of China title.)

I don't really have a problem with Ming itself. The only reason complaining about them is because the mechanics make World Conquest more difficult...which isn't really a problem as World conquests should be unreasonable goals anyways...Ming should be powerful until the late 1500's early 1600's when they began their decline.

Although....I do have a mechanical problem with their tributaries. Nations are perfectly happy to sit around and be Ming's Tributary for the entire game and because non-tributaries can't attack them without Ming's involvement(and thus do not due to Ming's status as strongest nation in Asia); Tributaries tend to gobble each other up and the surrounding non-tributary lands. Then it seems like they're content to just sit around and stay Ming's Tributary forever. This means that an invading force now has to deal with a nation that's fairly powerful in their own right and Ming and its 200k troops.

Ming should have ways to keep their tributaries small and weak and powerful tributaries should be more inclined to break free from their tributary status or go for Emperor of China.

[Mari_Lilac]

Well, i'm continuing my Ottoman Conquest attempt and it's now coming up on 1625. I haven't really played it much as World conquests really just feel like a chore sometimes...

#1 Reason I've never finished a world conquest, despite reading up on them, trying them out and then... tediousness making me bored and suddenly I don't play EU4 for a month...

[Flickerdart]

This means that an invading force now has to deal with a nation that's fairly powerful in their own right and Ming and its 200k troops.

Seems like a really good arrangement for the tributary nation, not sure why you think they ought to want to ruin it.

[Leecros]

Seems like a really good arrangement for the tributary nation, not sure why you think they ought to want to ruin it.

For the same reason regular vassals want independence? Because their overlord constantly drains their resources? Because when there's a few of them that could overthrow Ming together, they should definitely do so? Why be a servant of The Ming when you can become The Ming?

[tigerusthegreat]

I hate that they release a game and then 10 dlc pacs to finish it out. Only major complaint I have for paradox

[Leecros]

I hate that they release a game and then 10 dlc pacs to finish it out. Only major complaint I have for paradox

Unfortunately for you, that seems like it's going to be Paradox's policy for the time being. Personally I don't mind it. 15-20(sometimes 10) dollars every few months or so? It's still not nearly as much money as people spend on MMO's. However, I understand why people would dislike the policy...especially if they haven't invested as many hours into the game as I have.


Fortunately, Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV felt like complete games when they were released and you don't really need all of the DLC to get many hours of enjoyment out of them. Comparatively speaking Stellaris and Hearts of Iron IV had much rockier releases as they felt pretty empty on release.

[tigerusthegreat]

Eu 3 felt broken when it came out, as did hoi3. Eu4 seems good and i love ck2 with only the base game. I just dont like it as a policy. I have over a thousand hours into various pi games

[Flickerdart]

For the same reason regular vassals want independence? Because their overlord constantly drains their resources? Because when there's a few of them that could overthrow Ming together, they should definitely do so? Why be a servant of The Ming when you can become The Ming?

Because then you get conquered by upstart human players.

[Sian]

Fortunately, Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV felt like complete games when they were released and you don't really need all of the DLC to get many hours of enjoyment out of them. Comparatively speaking Stellaris and Hearts of Iron IV had much rockier releases as they felt pretty empty on release.

Well, with CK2, IIRC they've been pretty up front about the next dlc being ... last or second last?, since they're really starting to feel the age and design bloat, so I wouldn't be surprised if they split half the team off soon to start brewing CK3

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, with CK2, IIRC they've been pretty up front about the next dlc being ... last or second last?, since they're really starting to feel the age and design bloat, so I wouldn't be surprised if they split half the team off soon to start brewing CK3

But they then later said they'll keep making stuff for CK2 and EUIV as long as people keep buying it, so now we don't know again.

[Leecros]

Well, with CK2, IIRC they've been pretty up front about the next dlc being ... last or second last?, since they're really starting to feel the age and design bloat, so I wouldn't be surprised if they split half the team off soon to start brewing CK3

There's barely anyone working on CKII as it is. A bunch of them were split off to work on other games already. Also they mentioned that they wouldn't make a sequel just for the sake of making a sequel. Someone mentioned in an interview that they would have to have a reason or enough new ideas that they couldn't currently implement in the current game for that to happen.

[russdm]

Tweaked the game files some. I swapped out the Byzantines in place of the Ottomans for the Lucky Nations list, and increased technology costs for Ottoman/Muslim tech groups. Mainly wondering if that will make the game not run. Made sure to have everything be correctly written.

Made the change to spice things up and to more properly reflect what actually occurred historically in that it was the Greeks who preserved their own cultural information, despite what certain historians claim without evidence.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Greeks eventually ruled over by Turks (with the rest fleeing to other nations and helping kickstart the Renaissance), yes. That's difficult to model in EU4, though. Might work better if they moved to using a system of POPs like Victoria 2 or Stellaris, with part of the Ottomans' strength coming from extremely high-literacy Greek pops they absorb early in the game, rather than simplistic country modifiers and special technology/government forms.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Greeks eventually ruled over by Turks (with the rest fleeing to other nations and helping kickstart the Renaissance), yes. That's difficult to model in EU4, though. Might work better if they moved to using a system of POPs like Victoria 2 or Stellaris, with part of the Ottomans' strength coming from extremely high-literacy Greek pops they absorb early in the game, rather than simplistic country modifiers and special technology/government forms.

Honestly, most of the games could be improved simulation-wise by a POP system, except maybe CK2, and even thta could use a little more demographics in it.

[Leecros]

Honestly, most of the games could be improved simulation-wise by a POP system, except maybe CK2, and even thta could use a little more demographics in it.

Crusader Kings 12 will be released in 2117 it's main feature will be the fact that the game will track all the people in the world. They'll all have their own traits and personality and marry and have kids that will also be tracked.

[Nerd-o-rama]

And the main fandom focus will still be converting characters to religions where they can marry their siblings.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Yeah, must say I'm SLIGHTLY weirded out by the Xedodah-cultists. Like, they literally only put that into the game so that the Game of Thrones modders could do their stuff. Half of the Zoro-fans just want their 'wincest'.

But I don't play with those mods so whatever :D

[Leecros]

And the main fandom focus will still be converting characters to religions where they can marry their siblings.

I bought one of my friends Crusader Kings II so that he and I could play multiplayer. So he and I played and I walked him through the basics and he decided to play in Ireland. I didn't say anything about all of the lustful "fun" you can partake in.

The game progresses, he becomes the king of Ireland and all of a sudden I hear "oh my god! I can sleep with my sister!"

His CKII life has never been the same.


Anyway, this is the EUIV discussion, not the CKII discussion. We probably shouldn't get them cross-contaminated

[Nerd-o-rama]

Last time that happened on Reddit I believe r/crusaderkings declared a Crusade and r/eu4 started fighting each other over colonial rights.

[Flickerdart]

Last time that happened on Reddit I believe r/crusaderkings declared a Crusade and r/eu4 started fighting each other over colonial rights.

"Did someone say Colonial Reichs?" -r/hoi4