Europa Universalis IV Thread 4: Divine Wind

[Nerd-o-rama]

"Did someone say Colonial Reichs?" -r/hoi4

Maybe when I actually buy Art of War and can Revolutionary Empire Germany. It's still colonialism when you just beat up your neighbors to make them concede their overseas territories, right?

Update, though, game's surprisingly playable with Common Sense only, just missing some of the more fun features and World Conquest feasibility. Just recently played a full Thomond -> Ireland -> Luck of the Irish game and an almost complete Date -> Japan game. Both as mainly Colonial empires, though, since I haven't figured out how to dent France or Ming, respectively, without using either a country with better combat NIs or Mandate of Heaven, respectively.

[Sian]

My Ibadi "Third Way" Oman->Mughals got played a bit more



I've snaked my way through the Congo Basin with the intention of colonizing up the coast till I touch the West African nations for conquest, Snaking my way along the northern Ming border through Chagatai as Yeren have a couple of Sunni provinces on the Siberian seaboard, I've just managed to break the annoying alliance between Ottomans and Bahmanis (via declaring on Ceylon, Bahmanis' ally, and only taking alliance-break from Bah), and got a few provinces scattered around South East Asia.

Also have two Vassals in the North which have a lot of Cores that I can feed them, Khiva and Kazakh.

Interestingly enough, Morocco have conquered most of Southern and Western Iberia, leaving Portugal with only one continental province, and are currently guaranteeing OPM Castile that appears to have been losing several wars against Aragon (who got a Valois on throne, but somewhere along the way lost the PU over Naples). Other than that, the only thing of note is probably that PLC never happened, and both nations is all but nonexistant now, having been eaten by Teutons, Ottomans and Russia (in order of gains)

[tonberrian]

As a note, Paradox is doing a massive sale on their own online store. They give out steam codes, so no reason not to check it out if you're looking for some DLC.

[Caelestion]

I bought the recent Russian music pack for 50% off, so there's no excuse for not checking it out.

[Leecros]

Well, in an attempt to revitalize this discussion. The new DLC has been officially announced(even though the Dev Diaries have given us a pretty good idea of what's going to be in it). Here's the info on the Cradle of Civilization.


In other news, I have to ask: Am I nativing properly yet?

Spoiler

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(Muisca is my vassal)

I know I haven't quite Native'd enough yet. There's still 200 years left in the game for that to happen, but I have to know whether or not I am nativing at an appropriate level.

Frankly, Even though i know that I'm nativing quite hard. I don't know about the long-term prospects of the game. As with many native games, the Europeans could come over and just roll me over at any time. My religion is reformed, but iIm still roughly nine techs behind the most technologically advanced nations and I don't get any special neighbor bonuses due to well....not having any neighbors.

Spain is getting crushed by a SuperFrance on the Mainland which has led to me and Muisca splitting Spain's colonial holdings over a number of wars. Then I force-vassalized Muisca.

Also I hate how Terra Incognita works now. Back in My Day, When we westernized, we got vision of what the Europeeans were doing. Also it had a 50 year spread, so undiscovered provinces were explored in a reasonable period of time.

Nowadays, it feels like Terra Incognita takes a loooong time to lift naturally.

[Sian]

In other news, I have to ask: Am I nativing properly yet?

Spoiler

Show

(Muisca is my vassal)

I would argue that no, since you haven't annexed Inca.

And depending on what your end-goal is, there might have been better ways to spread out your colonization effort, but given that you haven't stated what that is it might be difficult to be certain about which route would have been the ideal

[Leecros]

I would argue that no, since you haven't annexed Inca.

And depending on what your end-goal is, there might have been better ways to spread out your colonization effort, but given that you haven't stated what that is it might be difficult to be certain about which route would have been the ideal

I'm not sure how I could have expanded much more quickly to eat the Incans. I could only really expand farther south at the rate of colonies and made it down to Panama before the Spanish colony cut me off. It's only been a few years since I reformed and slightly longer since I got conquistadors. the only way i can think of would have been to take the colonist reform earlier, but thats a mixed bag. However the Incan days are numbered.

As for my goal? Well I learned after starting that there's no Mayan cheevies (which is dumb). So really my goal is simply to become a great empire and practice nativing because its been a long time since I've played them. I have a LAN party Wednesday that I might decide to play a native faction. They can fight over Europe.

[Sian]

I have a LAN party Wednesday that I might decide to play a native faction. They can fight over Europe.

I would heartly suggest NO!! ... being the only one that plays with natives in LAN, is boring as hell ... at speed 2 you'll be twiddling your thumbs for up towards 3-4 hours with practically nothing to do ... and that is if people in Europe actually go out of their way to make it possible for you to get into the game fast, at which point you'll likely be underdog for quite a while ... If they're playing/destroys the traditional colonizers, it might well be even more that.

[Leecros]

Eh, the natives (specifically central and south American natives) aren't the ball of sadness and disappointment and boringness they used to be. As obnoxious as I find the reform mechanics to be, I cannot deny that it keeps the player busy. Especially the Mayans which fragment their country multiple times.

As for being the underdog... that I'm not worried about. I'm by far the most skilled player in our group and it doesn't bother me to be at a disadvantage.becides, the natives can often be underestimated and left to their own devices; they can make bank on their valuable trade goods and quickly outpace other players.

I believe it was the dev multiplayer game for Mandate of Heaven where one of the devs ended up as the Inca and threatened top score.

[Flickerdart]

Wasn't there some cheesy North American tribe you could migrate down to Central America with, convert to Mayan religion, and then blob like a maniac?

[Artanis]

Wasn't there some cheesy North American tribe you could migrate down to Central America with, convert to Mayan religion, and then blob like a maniac?

That would be Caddo: they could make contact with Mesoamericans with just two or three migrations, switch to Nahuatl, then reform the religion almost instantly because they start with North America - and all its OPMs - revealed.

[Eldan]

More than that. From what I understand, at least in older patches, the Nahuatl religion gave good bonuses, which were made up for by weak mesoamerican government types and culture. On the other hand, north American natives had good government types and some bonuses there, but very weak religions. So getting Nahuatl on a North American natives just gave you huge bonuses all around, as soon as you could reform.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I know it's CK2 not EU4, but I didn't feel like starting a whole new thread just for this.

I just had the shortest game ever. Decided to play in 1066 (pre-conquest) and do a Qarmatian Revival run in HIP mod. So I'm playing as the Jannabids, heretical rulers of al-Ahsa near Bahrain, and my first easy move is to reconquer the Bahraini peninsula proper. Well, my first Emir dies on October 3 1066 of old age. He was 71, so no biggy. My heir takes over the war, I outnumber the enemy 2-to-1 so I'm pretty confident. Until my Emir is confronted by freaking Ibrahim al-Hilali, stubborn bastard. I'm thinking "oh, so my new Emir is Proud, so he's not gonna back down". First and second rounds of combat I wound al-Hilali, but the damn man keeps on getting up, and on the third round he runs me RIGHT THROUGH and I die on the field of battle. October 21st, 1066, a reign of 18 days, and barely a game longer than that, as I had no heir.

[russdm]

I know it's CK2 not EU4, but I didn't feel like starting a whole new thread just for this.

I just had the shortest game ever. Decided to play in 1066 (pre-conquest) and do a Qarmatian Revival run in HIP mod. So I'm playing as the Jannabids, heretical rulers of al-Ahsa near Bahrain, and my first easy move is to reconquer the Bahraini peninsula proper. Well, my first Emir dies on October 3 1066 of old age. He was 71, so no biggy. My heir takes over the war, I outnumber the enemy 2-to-1 so I'm pretty confident. Until my Emir is confronted by freaking Ibrahim al-Hilali, stubborn bastard. I'm thinking "oh, so my new Emir is Proud, so he's not gonna back down". First and second rounds of combat I wound al-Hilali, but the damn man keeps on getting up, and on the third round he runs me RIGHT THROUGH and I die on the field of battle. October 21st, 1066, a reign of 18 days, and barely a game longer than that, as I had no heir.

That's why I rely on the Kill Code at times. "Was struck down by lightning"

[Sian]

I think i shoulda played in the lottery today



the event have an mtth of 500000 months (that's 41666 years!), and can only fire if you have 100 Prestige ... rare as hens teeth that is

[Sian]

having finished my Third way run, I'm considering what my next one should be (should be able to fit one more run in before CoC), thinking Ryazan aiming for Kinslayer, Breaking the Yoke, Relentless Push East and the Orthodox achievements ...

Any other interesting campaigns to take a swing at?

[Caelestion]

You could try out the Third Odyssey mod on Steam, where the Palaiologoi take flight to the New World and become a small colonial nation in New England.

[Nerd-o-rama]

the event have an mtth of 500000 months (that's 41666 years!), and can only fire if you have 100 Prestige ... rare as hens teeth that is

I can't believe they'd put in an event like that just to screw with people who are expecting Comet Sighted.

Wait, yes I can.

Anyway I have no good campaign suggestions, I just now got An Early Reich/Ruina Imperii. I'm still working on that one, not because I think I'm going to get any more achievements, but because I really want to dismantle Lithuania and Ottoblob too. I'm incredibly surprised the former is still kicking (as a republic, even) after I ate Poland.

I was going to be a good Bismarck and take every European province with Germanic-group culture but then I realized that includes Dutch and Flemish and honestly I have 60 years left and I don't want to spend all of it blockaded by the Netherlands.


I do have a question, though. Even with more than the modern state of Germany under my belt I've still been losing money every time I built past half my force limit late-game. Is there a way to avoid that other than investing boatloads of Monarch Points and ducats into improving everything instead of techs and standing armies? Do I need to trade better? You get like three merchants total if you don't take any trade ideas, so it seemed more worthwhile to focus on buildings, but those themselves cost money which I usually didn't have because I was trying to beat France in an arms race or something.

[Sian]

I do have a question, though. Even with more than the modern state of Germany under my belt I've still been losing money every time I built past half my force limit late-game. Is there a way to avoid that other than investing boatloads of Monarch Points and ducats into improving everything instead of techs and standing armies? Do I need to trade better? You get like three merchants total if you don't take any trade ideas, so it seemed more worthwhile to focus on buildings, but those themselves cost money which I usually didn't have because I was trying to beat France in an arms race or something.

Post screenshots of Budget ... are you utilizing your state count properly?

[Akisa]

Here is a rant that is entirely my fault.



I'm starting a new game as Eastern Roman Empire, and Ottomans decide to attack me before I get alliance with Poland and/or Hungary. However it seems both powers had guaranteed me and I was allied to Albania. Fast forward through multiple wars and I'm working my way down the middle East and I find out that the game is not Iron man.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Post screenshots of Budget ... are you utilizing your state count properly?

I'm at work right now so it'll be a bit but can I ask what you mean by that? I'm pretty sure I have everything stated because I'm Empire rank and it's late game now, and I haven't expanded outside of my immediate area at all. Unless the game's lying to me when I click the button, I should be making a pretty good profit at low autonomy (which I have because I want Absolutism and haven't bought Rights of Man - I'd rather use my standing army to fight rebels from manually lowering autonomy than use Military Points anyway).

Maybe I did have some things unstated...I am absurdly behind on Admin Tech, which also means I might be losing money to Corruption even after I have things cored, I guess.

[Caelestion]

There's no might about it. It's something like 0.05 corruption per level of tech beyond tolerance (2, I think), and that quickly adds up. Having lots of colonies on the go at once also takes a scary amount of money, no matter how rich you are.

[Sian]

By utilizing states I mean having your largest (development-wise) areas as states and your smallest areas as territories ...

Using a state-slot on a single 3dev province on your border (with the rest of the area in foreign territory) is rather a waste of worth.

Anyhows ... Started a Coptoman run which I'm intending to push towards a Mare Nostrum Achievement run

[Leecros]

By utilizing states I mean having your largest (development-wise) areas as states and your smallest areas as territories ...

Using a state-slot on a single 3dev province on your border (with the rest of the area in foreign territory) is rather a waste of worth.

In Germany, that shouldn't be so much of a problem. Even the small states are pretty valuable.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah all my states were rich former HRE provinces or Poland's more valuable trade goods. It was probably the tech difference corruption plus interest. I really need to not touch the loan button except when all my mercs are dead...

Also I got bored and started a Poland run. I am needing to be more careful with states because Poland/PLC can expand into a lot more crappy land than someone trying to form Germany. On the plus side, I invented T-34s several centuries early and have cleverly disguised them as horses so as not to clue the Russians in.

EDIT: comparing my bonuses in Poland game vs. Germany game I think the real difference is trade. In invested a lot more in Production infrastructure and controlling upstream trade nodes as PLC and it really helps my income. Basically as Germany I needed to eat more of Austria, Lithuania, and Russia than I did and maybe pay real life United States dollars for thr ability to move my trade capital to Lubeck.

[russdm]

Think going to get a test game running, after making a few more tweaks, than see how well matters run.

In regards to the other thread: Will there be a new thread for Crusader Kings 2 since the one is last commented on in August (Into Thread Necromancy) and if so, can the forum's CK 2 Let's Plays get links to read?

Enjoy reading those, and I liked the Tibet/Novgorod EU 4 Let's Play. Think links should be posted in first post, so people could read them, doing so helped me decide to buy Ck2 then also EU.

[Mabn]

So I'm playing a game as Carib. I migrated up to Central America and conquered basically the entire Mayan region. Rather than convert provinces as I went along, I decided to try to get religious rebels to change to the Mayan religion. My thought process was that if I modernized (or whatever the term is now) by reforming my religion I could get techs and institutions while keeping the excellent native council government. Problem is, nothing I do will make religious rebels spawn. I'm at about 6% religious unity, I've let all the separatism in my provinces go away, I've made the cultures in my provinces my accepted culture, I've stuck missionaries in my provinces just to see if it would irritate them. Still getting separatists everywhere. I can't change provinces to Carib culture since they aren't my religion, and the decision to culture shift wont appear even if I make one of my secondary cultures 50% of my development. Is changing my religion simply impossible?

[Leecros]

So I'm playing a game as Carib. I migrated up to Central America and conquered basically the entire Mayan region. Rather than convert provinces as I went along, I decided to try to get religious rebels to change to the Mayan religion. My thought process was that if I modernized (or whatever the term is now) by reforming my religion I could get techs and institutions while keeping the excellent native council government. Problem is, nothing I do will make religious rebels spawn. I'm at about 6% religious unity, I've let all the separatism in my provinces go away, I've made the cultures in my provinces my accepted culture, I've stuck missionaries in my provinces just to see if it would irritate them. Still getting separatists everywhere. I can't change provinces to Carib culture since they aren't my religion, and the decision to culture shift wont appear even if I make one of my secondary cultures 50% of my development. Is changing my religion simply impossible?

Your best bet to force religious rebels is to try and convert a province with a missionary and then go into your economy tab and drop missionary maintenance to 0(it's the one between Colonial maintenance and Root out Corruption). That will reduce the base chance of converting a province down to 0%. Then religious rebels eventually will spawn.

Typically unless you actually try to convert the province to a different religion, usually all you will get is separatists.

[Mabn]

Your best bet to force religious rebels is to try and convert a province with a missionary and then go into your economy tab and drop missionary maintenance to 0(it's the one between Colonial maintenance and Root out Corruption). That will reduce the base chance of converting a province down to 0%. Then religious rebels eventually will spawn.

Typically unless you actually try to convert the province to a different religion, usually all you will get is separatists.

so the transition isn't immediate? I'd been moving my missionary between provinces to see if one of them would work, I'll see if keeping the missionary in just one province is effective

Edit: new wrinkle. I put a missionary in a proving at 0% maintenance and kept them there, and religious zealots did spawn. I let them conquer my one animist province and gave into their demands. Now I'm at 0% religious unity and I still can't convert. How I'm still animist when every one of my provinces is mayan I just don't get.

[Sian]

Think I'm first going to buy CoC when Christmas/NewYears Sale is around (even if its only going to be a small decrease), not because it doesn't look promising, but because I don't see me being done with my current campaign before that, and hence won't upgrade my game to 2.23 before then