Re-evaluation of page 38

[Eidre]

With the new information about the charm/suggestion that Wanda placed on Jillian on page 64, I looked back at the first five frames of page 38 (which never quite made sense to me) and saw a few details I missed the first time:

Frame 1: Sunrise over Gobwin Knob, very long shot
* J (not visible): Oh c'mon, he's not that bad. Really. For a royal.
* W (not visible): Listen to you. "For a royal." You're a royal!

Frame 2: 3/4 overhead view from behind Wanda's shoulder; the turn hasn't started yet since Jillian still has significant wounds visible from her torture session, and Wanda's hair is stringy and tangled. Incidentally, Wanda's outfit (black, with red-outlined white skull theme) is completely different from what she was wearing when the session started (white pants and top).
* J: Shush. Not so's anyone would know.
* W: True, they'd never guess.
* J: Well thank you for the very high complim-

Frame 3: 3/4 Front/Left view of just Jillian's face and upper body; expression is shocked (eyes wide, mouth open, brow knotted). Also, her injuries have healed, clothes mended, and hair re-arranged between frames, indicating the turn has started.
* J: Uahh.

Frame 4: Same view. Jillian bites her tongue , closing her eyes with a small tear, presumably due to the pain (this is the frame I could never figure out before). Background shifts from neutral blue/grey to a mottled red/yellow.

Frame 5: Straight across view from behind Jillian, showing Wanda's front. Wanda's food (tea, two pieces of sushi, bowl of rice) has just popped on the table. Wanda's eyebook is quacking. Jillian's face is buried in her hands and she is crying.
* W: I know. In some ways, your wounds have healed.
* J: ooHooooooo...
* W: In other ways, you're only just feeling them now.

My suppositions and observations from this exchange (now that I've figured out what Jillian was doing in frame 4):

- This spell was cast during the night and not during either side's turn. This implies that certain classes of spells (as well as influencing captured warlords through torture) can be cast outside of that side's turn.

- The torture inflicted damage on Jillian, again out of the normal turn sequence; it was healed when the turn started.

- At some point during the night's events, Wanda changed clothes. And she didn't leave the room.

- Wanda cast a Charm/Suggestion spell, which is definitely outside of Croakamancy.

- Something about what Jillian was about to say in frame 3 was forbidden by the Charm, causing her to bite her own tongue to keep herself from saying it. I'm not sure exactly what the terms of the Charm are, but I am opining that it has a provision preventing her from saying anything positive about Wanda. Thus, when she realized she was complimenting Wanda, she was compelled to forcibly (and painfully) stop herself. This also suggests that she has a number of separate compulsions (since this one by itself wouldn't lead to the chain of events and the type of control that Wanda is now saying she has).

- Jillian is aware of the Charm. She immediately broke down in despair when she realized how effectively it was compelling her actions. This implies that she is still aware of the fact that she is being compelled by magic, if not the full list of compulsions, and is unable to prevent it. And she's tormented by this knowledge.

- Although I stopped transcribing, a later frame indicates that Wanda fully expects Jillian to return to her in the near future (at least before the Charm wears off, which we don't know the expected duration).

Thoughts?

[Scientivore]

Don't forget the sixth frame: "Don't wallow in guilt, my dearest. You never had as much choice as it seemed." Also the last two frames of page 30, in which Wanda casts a spell from a scroll and says, "But when Prisoner says "the very easy way?" She gets "the very hard way."" Also, the entire bottom half of page 36 with an emphasis on, "I haven't held anything back, Mistress."

I believe that Jillian's breakdown was on realizing just how much she'd given away. Jillian the [subtext: indomitable] Barbarian had been dominated. (And, uh...it appears that maybe she, um, liked it.) One spell (to answer Wanda's questions?) wore off in the morning when its sparkles disappeared. I think that a pre-existing and more permanent effect (magical or mundane?) to love Wanda remained.

[SteveMB]

Frame 4: Same view. Jillian bites her tongue , closing her eyes with a small tear, presumably due to the pain (this is the frame I could never figure out before).

I just don't see her biting her tongue, in either the original image or even in the blowup Rob posted. Even if one supposes that that was what Rob and Jamie intended to depict, it certainly isn't clear enough to serve as the basis for a line of interpretation.

Something about what Jillian was about to say in frame 3 was forbidden by the Charm, causing her to bite her own tongue to keep herself from saying it. I'm not sure exactly what the terms of the Charm are, but I am opining that it has a provision preventing her from saying anything positive about Wanda. Thus, when she realized she was complimenting Wanda, she was compelled to forcibly (and painfully) stop herself.

The comment in frame 2, interrupted by Jillian's strong reaction in frames 3-4, was "Well thank you for the very high complim--". Jillian wasn't saying something complimentary about Wanda; she was thanking Wanda for saying that "they'd never guess" that Jillian was royal, a statement Jillian considers a compliment (either because it is a tribute to her skill at hiding that facet of her history/nature, or because she considers being seen as non-royal as favorable in itself).

For now, I'm inclined to go with Scientivore's interpretation (which inspired my "Insight" Demotivaterf).

[ChowGuy]

You've missed a couple things though. For one thing, on panels 3/4 Rob posts in the Blowups thread "Jillian in shock. There is a story behind the art in these two panels" that there is a story is not surprising, though the reference is ambiguous. Is he refering to a story as in part of the plot, or a story as in "a funny thing happened while drawing these." What is important though is that he describes them as "in shock." If we assume that the "shock" occurs at the moment of healing, and that that moment comes in the middle of "Thank you for yada yada" (which by the way is more a more "politeness" and self-complimentary then complimentary to Wanda, that would be more then enough to explain the interruption. No "compulsion" required.

As for Wanda promising to return, that's not quite what she says. What she says is "Don't attempt escape. You'll miss out on that reward you've earned." That however is a back reference to page 36 where she says "It's almost dawn ... Tonight you'll be rewarded properly." "Tonight" would be following first Stanley's, then Ansom's turn. But by this time, it's likely she's already laid the groundwork for her plan, which does involve her returning yes, but not "tonight" but rather shortly later when she releases Jillin (on Stanley's turn) with the intent of being "rescued." By that night if all had gone according to plan, she would have been back with Ansom. Or both would have been croaked.

Also, again referring to page 36, you see that at that point, Wanda is still wearing her intimidating torturer outfit. It's just at that point however, when having completed the "torture/interrogation mode" that she switches to "girl talk/confidant" mode. This is standard psi-ops technique. Break the prisoner down, build a camaraderie, and use it to implant "suggestions." Switching at that point to a less intimidating outfit fits in with that quite well. The message is "I'm not the same Wanda now. I was doing my job back then, but now I'm just your old friend again."

[SMDVogrin]

- This spell was cast during the night and not during either side's turn. This implies that certain classes of spells (as well as influencing captured warlords through torture) can be cast outside of that side's turn.

There are probably a number of things that happen "after both turns end", i.e. at night. Interrogation of captured prisoners appears to be one. Other possibilities (things I can think of based on other games): Research (some evidence of this - Parson's studying?), Politics (treaties expiring? Population happiness?), Other Intelligence (Agents in enemy cities - spy reports? sabotage?), Paying maintenance (may be start of turn instead?)...

[The_Alec]

The comment in frame 2, interrupted by Jillian's strong reaction in frames 3-4, was "Well thank you for the very high complim--". Jillian wasn't saying something complimentary about Wanda; she was thanking Wanda for saying that "they'd never guess" that Jillian was royal, a statement Jillian considers a compliment (either because it is a tribute to her skill at hiding that facet of her history/nature, or because she considers being seen as non-royal as favorable in itself).

Personally I interpreted that to be more of a sarcastic comment. Specifically she is commenting on how Wanda has inferred that Jillian is so lacking in the higher qualities one would expect in royalty that no one would ever believe that she was one.

I also have to agree with Scientivor's take on the scene. The fact that Jillian had the realization that she was being controlled immediately after the start of turn healing can not just be a coincidence.

[SteveMB]

Also, again referring to page 36, you see that at that point, Wanda is still wearing her intimidating torturer outfit. It's just at that point however, when having completed the "torture/interrogation mode" that she switches to "girl talk/confidant" mode. This is standard psi-ops technique. Break the prisoner down, build a camaraderie, and use it to implant "suggestions." Switching at that point to a less intimidating outfit fits in with that quite well. The message is "I'm not the same Wanda now. I was doing my job back then, but now I'm just your old friend again."

Hmmmm... while it's a bit difficult to tell, the silhouette of Wanda's legs on page 36 does not appear consistent with the white leather pants as seen on page 28. The latter is about equally wide all the way down, the former is, well, leg-shaped. (Unfortunately, frame 36/12, which would be the best view, is blocked by a dialog box.)

If so, she might be in the process of changing outfits (strategically hinted at rather than clearly shown to keep it PG-rated).