Fallout VII - Vault-Tec calling

[Avilan the Grey]

Target vision will occasionally mark people as hostile for some reason I don't understand. I've got a mod to fix it, but I had it happen when I first did the Mechanist quest. Might be the problem with Covenant.

Actually what happens is the opposite, as far as I understand it. Target Vision triggers their hostility or makes it impossible for them to cease their hostility.

Could just be Bethesda Sorcery at work.

I had a similar issue with the Covenant quest. Where things just completely shattered for no reason.

It doesn't happen for everyone, but enough that the main Fallout wiki and a few other places says straight out "Never kill the cursor before you're told to".

[Triaxx]

Yeah that's what I meant. Brain fuzzed out. It seems to almost function as an attack.

[DigoDragon]

Well, Lonesome Road is done.

Spoiler: Details

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I talked that dummy down and then together we did pretty good at taking out the marked men... assuming you don't count the part where I knocked out EDE mistaking him for an enemy eyebot. >_< It's okay, he got better... and then exploded in self sacrifice to stop the nuke. I was thinking of sending it off to the Legion, but... eh, there's enough ghouls out there to fight. Yeah, I know, not like anyone is gonna notice another crater, right?

Haven't done the Courier's Mile yet. And still missing two warheads for the achievement. And like, 10 Ralphie posters. Blahhhh, don't know that they're worth going back.

Plus side, game has not crashed once since getting back to the Mojave. Guess there really was something odd in that DLC that didn't agree with my PC. Well, we'll see. I think I'm going to go talk to the NCR a bit before deciding who to side with for the dam.

[Triaxx]

I think there's a unique thing in the Mile, but I don't remember what so it's probably not worth it.

If anyone's looking for a Youtuber to watch, Lady Lilia has proven to be pretty enjoyable. I'm watching her New Vegas LP at the moment.

[Avilan the Grey]

OKay, I am soon ready to clean out the Nuka World.
I am slowly collecting mines and grenades, and stocking up on 7.62 ammo. When I have maximized the commando perk I am ready.
(Yes I know I am probably over leveled for that already... but for RPG reasons it feels right to do a proper stockup and stuff).

[LibraryOgre]

So, a weird side effect I've been noticing, following this thread: The more I read about Fallout IV, the less I want to play it. Like, there's some neat-sounding stuff, but I don't think I want to deal with the rest of it.

[DigoDragon]

So, a weird side effect I've been noticing, following this thread: The more I read about Fallout IV, the less I want to play it. Like, there's some neat-sounding stuff, but I don't think I want to deal with the rest of it.

I feel more inclined to play it, but totally poke the 4th wall, like... write a journal for the Survivor in a similar manner Parson does for Erf World.

[Avilan the Grey]

So, a weird side effect I've been noticing, following this thread: The more I read about Fallout IV, the less I want to play it. Like, there's some neat-sounding stuff, but I don't think I want to deal with the rest of it.

Fallout 4 is definitely my favorite Fallout, including the old ones. But taste differs

[Triaxx]

It's not a bad game. Some of us are just a bit... curmudgeonly about our gaming. We want what we want and if what we get is not what we want, we don't quit complaining, even if we don't stop playing either. Is it the best fallout game? No. Does it follow the same formula as Fallout New Vegas? No. Is it bad? Absolutely not.

It's just different and different is hard to take. It's worth playing, not for the main story, but for Far Harbor, which is at least as enjoyable as Dragonborn.

[Avilan the Grey]

It's not a bad game. Some of us are just a bit... curmudgeonly about our gaming. We want what we want and if what we get is not what we want, we don't quit complaining, even if we don't stop playing either. Is it the best fallout game? No. Does it follow the same formula as Fallout New Vegas? No. Is it bad? Absolutely not.

It's just different and different is hard to take. It's worth playing, not for the main story, but for Far Harbor, which is at least as enjoyable as Dragonborn.

Hey, I have subjected you guys to pages worth of hate over Dragon Age 2. So yeah.

[Winter_Wolf]

So, a weird side effect I've been noticing, following this thread: The more I read about Fallout IV, the less I want to play it. Like, there's some neat-sounding stuff, but I don't think I want to deal with the rest of it.

I had the opposite situation. I really got psyched to play by reading the FO threads, but once I started playing, well let's say I'm not exactly making big numbers in the "hours played" statistic. I might have just got myself over-hyped. On the other hand, I still have yet to try FO1-3 or New Vegas yet.

Part of it might be the constant choice: game, or sleep? Guess which one of those wins nine times in ten.

[factotum]

Part of it might be the constant choice: game, or sleep? Guess which one of those wins nine times in ten.

While said in jest, that's actually a pretty good barometer of how good a game is. When you look up at the clock and realise it's 2am and you have work next day, but you still tell yourself "I just need half an hour to finish this thing I'm doing, it'll be fine". I don't remember doing that for any recent Fallout game--it might have happened back when I first played Fallout 2, but that was 20 years ago!

[Avilan the Grey]

While said in jest, that's actually a pretty good barometer of how good a game is. When you look up at the clock and realise it's 2am and you have work next day, but you still tell yourself "I just need half an hour to finish this thing I'm doing, it'll be fine". I don't remember doing that for any recent Fallout game--it might have happened back when I first played Fallout 2, but that was 20 years ago!

Oh I agree, but the opposite. Admittedly I didn't play FO1 or 2 until after 3 and they are um... far more frustrating than enjoyable.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, Fallout 1/2 were a much harder set of games, but I came to them from even more obscure and obtuse NES games. I am totally aware I have a nostalgia filter firmly in place.

Also I can't stand the Dragon Age series in general.

[kraftcheese]

Yeah, Fallout 1/2 were a much harder set of games, but I came to them from even more obscure and obtuse NES games. I am totally aware I have a nostalgia filter firmly in place.

Also I can't stand the Dragon Age series in general.

There's some good stories and characters in the Dragon Age series; it's just that they often come packaged in boring gameplay, dead-feeling areas and other, badly written stories and characters.

[Winter_Wolf]

While said in jest, that's actually a pretty good barometer of how good a game is. When you look up at the clock and realise it's 2am and you have work next day, but you still tell yourself "I just need half an hour to finish this thing I'm doing, it'll be fine". I don't remember doing that for any recent Fallout game--it might have happened back when I first played Fallout 2, but that was 20 years ago!

I think it's a good measure of a game only when you don't factor in home ownership (yard work and maintenance) and two small children. Honestly when the younger one goes to sleep, it's pretty much when I go to sleep. For a game--any game--to get the time of day anymore we generally need to be visiting a grandparent. Or the computer is on because I'm paying bills.

I'm turning into a slightly more computer literate version of my dad.

[unseenmage]

I think it's a good measure of a game only when you don't factor in home ownership (yard work and maintenance) and two small children. Honestly when the younger one goes to sleep, it's pretty much when I go to sleep. For a game--any game--to get the time of day anymore we generally need to be visiting a grandparent. Or the computer is on because I'm paying bills.

I'm turning into a slightly more computer literate version of my dad.

I know that feel. It's hard to explain to younger, kid free friends that one cannot read subtitles AND care for the baby at the same time. And that, no, it does not get easier when it's a toddler instead. So no I sadly havn't seen *insert cool new anime here*.

[Triaxx]

I won't dive into the reasons, but when the 'Heroic' religion is basically the Thalmor, color me disappointed.

I know being too tired to game.

[kraftcheese]

I won't dive into the reasons, but when the 'Heroic' religion is basically the Thalmor, color me disappointed.

Are you talking about Dragon Age? The Chantry never seemed very heroic to me in-game; they jail and lobotomise mages, plenty of characters dislike the church heirarchy or the church itself (Leliana, Morrigan) and the militant wing is a literal Knights Templar...some people argue that the mage thing is necessary but it's not really been handled intelligently since Origins imo.

[factotum]

The Chantry never seemed very heroic to me in-game; they jail and lobotomise mages, plenty of characters dislike the church heirarchy or the church itself (Leliana, Morrigan) and the militant wing is a literal Knights Templar...

But you *are* supposed to be on their side, which I assume is what Triaxx meant. There's never an option in any of the Dragon Age games to try and destroy the Chantry, for instance.

[Caelestion]

They're an omnipresent fact of life for humans in Thedas, so attempting to tear it down would be as fruitless as mediaeval characters railing against the Catholic Church.

[kraftcheese]

But you *are* supposed to be on their side, which I assume is what Triaxx meant. There's never an option in any of the Dragon Age games to try and destroy the Chantry, for instance.

The only game where you're TECHNICALLY on the side of the Chantry is Inquisition; and even there the titular org is more of a semi-secular autonomous splinter group that takes over after the heads of the Chantry are killed.

I guess the "you can't destroy them" point is true, but how would you even go about that within the confines of a) Defeating the blight, b) Solving Kirkwall's problems or c) Using every link at your disposal to stop a demonic incursion/stop a war between two groups intrinsically tied to the Chantry? There's two branches of the Chantry that cover the known world and they're some of the most powerful organizations in that world. You get options in Inquisition to announce to the Chantry that you think the Maker's fake, that you don't have anything to do with Andraste, etc. but if you dissolved the Chantry, you'd also be dissolving the Inquisition and there'd be no story.

Maybe we should make a DA thread if you wanna discuss this further, as we're kinda cluttering up the Fallout one.

[Calemyr]

So, a weird side effect I've been noticing, following this thread: The more I read about Fallout IV, the less I want to play it. Like, there's some neat-sounding stuff, but I don't think I want to deal with the rest of it.

I'll be honest, there are several aspects of the game that are "love it or hate it". Personally, I'm in the "love it" camp.

Unlike previous FO protagonists, the Sole Survivor is a more defined person. (Just for convenience's sake, I'm going to refer to the Sole Survivor as male, because that's the one I play most often.) His origins are better defined than most, and his voicing gives him his own character, which is a departure from the "no voice but a dozen options for line" approach previous FO games have had. As with all voiced characters you control dialogue for, this can lead to comically inconsistent tone if you jump around on the dialogue wheel, but if you roleplay I found it flows quite well. He starts off shellshocked and lost, but quickly adjusts to the wasteland.

There are two bits of the voice acting in the game that are pretty incredible. First is his sarcastic options - when the Sole Survivor gets going, he has some great lines. But the second, and my personal favorite, is the Silver Shroud. It's this radio show from back in the day, with a hammy "Batman with guns" hero. Well, you can end up recovering a costume for the character, getting it converted into armor, and fighting crime as the Silver Shroud. That, on its own, is pretty cool, but for the entire questline (and parts of the DLCs), the Sole Survivor can roleplay being the Shroud, complete with the melodramatic theatrics, and the voice actors clearly had a ball with it as both versions are portrayed as making up their lines on the spot and loving every minute of it. Given that playing the role gives them a chance to resurrect one good thing from their lives, it's equal parts hilarious and bittersweet to watch them revel in the ham and cheese.

Whether the changes to the stats/perks/skills setup is a brilliant streamline of a clunky system or a lobotomy-level dumbing down is in the eye of the beholder. Skills and skill points are gone. Perks now carry the weight skills used to, such as allowing you access to more difficult doors and computers, increasing damage, and expanding social options. Stat points have become more malleable, as you can spend a perk point to buy a stat point at any time, which is good since perk access is dictated by your stats, but takes away from the power of your choices in character creation.

The gameplay is more on the FPS side of the FPS/Tactical spectrum than before, with even VATS merely slowing time rather than stopping it. Enemies are faster (especially the ghouls) and the gunplay is pretty darn solid. Melee is perfectly viable (and can be absurdly powerful with the Blitz perks), as well, though I wish there were more subtle hand-to-hand weapons endgame. The art shift takes a little getting used to, but I found it was a drastic improvement as I compared FO3/NV era monsters to FO4. Crafting and civilization building are features that are present and I absolutely enjoy, but they're not essential.

The story... is pretty typical FO fare, if you ask me. Guy comes off of the lowest point in his life only find himself in a fresh new hell. You have a goal that shapes the narrative, and at some point late in the game you uncover a bit of new info that throws your objectives in chaos and sets you off on another path. Only this time, the pursuit isn't after a water chip, a working GECK, your missing father, or a stolen poker chip, it's an infant child. Your infant child. Of course, this parent's quest for their son ends up with deciding the fate of the region. The factions remain a study in grays with noble motives derailed by blind zealotry, with none of them (even the de facto bad faction) being capital E Evil. Actually, that's a common complaint: it's very difficult to play an evil character in the game. The Nuka World kinda fixes this by giving you access to a raider faction and bring the Commonwealth under your iron fist, but until then it's just a question of which ideals you're willing to sacrifice to advance others.

As for the companions, they're pretty solid. With the exception of the ever-faithful Dogmeat, they all have interesting personalities, with ideals and motivations that define them as individuals, ranging from the hard-working and idealistic Preston (who's constant supply of randomized quests makes him the most unpopular character in the game) to Strong, a super mutant who is searching for the "milk of human kindness" mentioned in Mac Beth, believing it to be the secret of human strength and to literally be milk. They have a little interplay with each other (quick conversations when switching partners), but mostly they're relationship with you is the defining element of their personal journeys.

Short version: It's nothing like Fallout 1. If that's what you're expecting, you're going to be disappointed. The series has been shifting away from that more and more with every iteration. But it's a fun game with interesting characters set around a serviceable but not over-compelling plot. And it does a good job of combining the unsettling juxtaposition of light-hearted optimism with cynical realism that has always given the series its unique charm.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'll be honest, there are several aspects of the game that are "love it or hate it". Personally, I'm in the "love it" camp.

Unlike previous FO protagonists, the Sole Survivor is a more defined person. (Just for convenience's sake, I'm going to refer to the Sole Survivor as male, because that's the one I play most often.) His origins are better defined than most, and his voicing gives him his own character, which is a departure from the "no voice but a dozen options for line" approach previous FO games have had. As with all voiced characters you control dialogue for, this can lead to comically inconsistent tone if you jump around on the dialogue wheel, but if you roleplay I found it flows quite well. He starts off shellshocked and lost, but quickly adjusts to the wasteland.

There are two bits of the voice acting in the game that are pretty incredible. First is his sarcastic options - when the Sole Survivor gets going, he has some great lines. But the second, and my personal favorite, is the Silver Shroud. It's this radio show from back in the day, with a hammy "Batman with guns" hero. Well, you can end up recovering a costume for the character, getting it converted into armor, and fighting crime as the Silver Shroud. That, on its own, is pretty cool, but for the entire questline (and parts of the DLCs), the Sole Survivor can roleplay being the Shroud, complete with the melodramatic theatrics, and the voice actors clearly had a ball with it as both versions are portrayed as making up their lines on the spot and loving every minute of it. Given that playing the role gives them a chance to resurrect one good thing from their lives, it's equal parts hilarious and bittersweet to watch them revel in the ham and cheese.

My problem with the acting, however, is not only the limiting factor, but more importantly, you've hit upon one of my biggest pet peves

The Silver Shroud was a Moment of Awesome amongst a sea of utterly bland cardboard cutout responses. In many ways, it highlights just how horribad dialogue truly is in this game by being the only section of the game where they get it right.

Outside of the Silver Shoud, and a few very sparsely scattered places, your dialogue options are as follows: Enthusiastic Yes, Sarcastic Yes, Greedy Yes (with speech check), and Maybe Later.

That's it. Every time you interact with an NPC, these are your four options. For the ENTIRE GAME. And because of voice acting, you can't even decide it means something slightly different.

FO4 is less an RPG than a FPS with cutscenes that you can semi-direct but ultimately won't have any relevant impact on the plot. And they are constrained by this due to how dialogue is handled on the console, which is one of the most retarded ways I've ever seen it handled.

Dialogue is crippled, agency is crippled, it is little more than a movie that gives you the opportunity to engage in FPS sections in.

Whether the changes to the stats/perks/skills setup is a brilliant streamline of a clunky system or a lobotomy-level dumbing down is in the eye of the beholder. Skills and skill points are gone. Perks now carry the weight skills used to, such as allowing you access to more difficult doors and computers, increasing damage, and expanding social options. Stat points have become more malleable, as you can spend a perk point to buy a stat point at any time, which is good since perk access is dictated by your stats, but takes away from the power of your choices in character creation.

It was quite interesting, and I'll give it a wash. On the one hand, skills give you more granularity as to your character's abilities, and provides far more potential dialogue options. However, even the perk system could have had some interesting dialogue options if they had wanted to. For example, talking to a robot and if you have Hacking rank 2 or higher, another dialogue option opens up that lets you basically order him to tell you what you want using an override command or something.

So yea, on the one hand, there's an elegance in simplicity, and the system is simple. On the other hand, skills can break down to percentages much more easily, giving you far more fine tune control over what a player's chances of doing a given thing are, and giving the player the choice to 'spec' into the ability to do something specific at the cost of the other skills.

The gameplay is more on the FPS side of the FPS/Tactical spectrum than before, with even VATS merely slowing time rather than stopping it. Enemies are faster (especially the ghouls) and the gunplay is pretty darn solid. Melee is perfectly viable (and can be absurdly powerful with the Blitz perks), as well, though I wish there were more subtle hand-to-hand weapons endgame. The art shift takes a little getting used to, but I found it was a drastic improvement as I compared FO3/NV era monsters to FO4. Crafting and civilization building are features that are present and I absolutely enjoy, but they're not essential.

I'll agree the gameplay is more on the FPS side, which is one of the problems I have with it. Graphics are optional in my opinion. I would be just fine fighting a big capital 'D' as long as the mechanics were good. Yes, the graphics are shinier, and you pay for that with pretty insane hardware minimum requirements and suggested requirements, but that doesn't make the game itself any better.

I do agree that melee being something other than a huge trap is a refreshing change from F:NV, but more importantly, I really like how much you have to put into it to get it there. You are, in effect, bringing a knife to a gun fight. You have to be one hell of a badass with a knife to have a chance in hell of doing that. So there's a steep resource investment in stats and perks to be able to really get your combo going. But once you do... the reward is worth the investment. I really liked this balance point, and feel it is one of the very few things FO4 did right.

Customization of weapons was another good innovation, unfortunately it didn't turn out so well in practice. There's a HUGE amount of balancing issues with the system that NEED to be addressed. Like how the SMG is, in every respect, inferior to a basic pipe pistol you have access to well before you get access to an SMG. Honestly, I could (and previously did) go on a several page rant on the issue, but Bethesda being Bethesda, game balance mattered less than pushing it out the door and making it look shiny.

The story... is pretty typical FO fare, if you ask me. Guy comes off of the lowest point in his life only find himself in a fresh new hell. You have a goal that shapes the narrative, and at some point late in the game you uncover a bit of new info that throws your objectives in chaos and sets you off on another path. Only this time, the pursuit isn't after a water chip, a working GECK, your missing father, or a stolen poker chip, it's an infant child. Your infant child. Of course, this parent's quest for their son ends up with deciding the fate of the region. The factions remain a study in grays with noble motives derailed by blind zealotry, with none of them (even the de facto bad faction) being capital E Evil. Actually, that's a common complaint: it's very difficult to play an evil character in the game. The Nuka World kinda fixes this by giving you access to a raider faction and bring the Commonwealth under your iron fist, but until then it's just a question of which ideals you're willing to sacrifice to advance others.

Here's again where I would strongly disagree with you.

The problem with the story is how much of a railroad it is, which is completely out of whack for an open-world game. You are literally prohibited from doing certain things and going certain places until you advance the plot, and you have zero agency or control over how that plot advances, other than deciding when to do it. Take, for example, Fallout: New Vegas. The 'main plot' involves you going down to Primm, saving the Deputy, who gives you a hint about where to go next, and eventually leads you to NOVAC. However, if you completely skip Primm and go straight to NOVAC, you can easily pick up the plotline there by talking to Manny who mentions the guy you are after, and the plot progresses. In FO4, you probably wouldn't have been permitted to go talk to Manny, or he wouldn't have given you the dialogue option to talk about Benny, until after the Deputy had been rescued.

And that brings us to another point: Player agency with regards to character creation. You can make your character look like just about anyone, but under no circumstances is the player permitted to so much as infringe on the sacrosanct backstory. In F:NV, your character was a courier, and left blank how he got that job, why he got that job, or anything else. Heck, a Courier job could simply be a one-time deal, getting paid caps to go somewhere and take something with you to deliver when you get there. There was an enormous amount of open-endedness to fill in YOUR character with. Even Ulysses' plotline can easily be read as 'Dude is a nutjob who doesn't want to admit that it was the Legion who brought that package and so is blaming it on me'. It may not be technically 'canon', but it is something you can run with in the course of a play-through. There's no supporting evidence other than his bare word that you did what he accuses you of.

Hell, even in FO3 you had some narrative flexibility. Sure, you had your father, who was who he was, but it was up to you to decide how your character grew up. Did you follow in your father's footsteps and go into science? Did you get drawn to military fame and glory and become interested in security personnel? Did you become fascinated with tinkering and engineering? It's all up to you.

But in FO4? No, you and your backstory are stuck. But FO4's character is brutally direct, you were either a soldier or a lawyer. You can't change that.

As for the companions, they're pretty solid. With the exception of the ever-faithful Dogmeat, they all have interesting personalities, with ideals and motivations that define them as individuals, ranging from the hard-working and idealistic Preston (who's constant supply of randomized quests makes him the most unpopular character in the game) to Strong, a super mutant who is searching for the "milk of human kindness" mentioned in Mac Beth, believing it to be the secret of human strength and to literally be milk. They have a little interplay with each other (quick conversations when switching partners), but mostly they're relationship with you is the defining element of their personal journeys.

I would again have to respectfully but firmly disagree. Dogmeat is the most interesting companion of them all, with the rest being cardboard caricatures of known stereotypes. Of course, that's not saying much, there's only so much characterization you can put into a dog, but it's better than anything the rest of the characters manage. I absolutely can't stand any of them, and almost invariably go Lone Wanderer perk simply so I don't have to listen to their annoying whinging. Except when plot demands, of course.

Short version: It's nothing like Fallout 1. If that's what you're expecting, you're going to be disappointed. The series has been shifting away from that more and more with every iteration. But it's a fun game with interesting characters set around a serviceable but not over-compelling plot. And it does a good job of combining the unsettling juxtaposition of light-hearted optimism with cynical realism that has always given the series its unique charm.

It's nothing like FO3 either, which is also a Bethesda piece. Their storyline is strictly WORSE than their previous offering. And I would say it does an extremely poor job of combining said juxtaposition. Instead, it is emotional whiplash. One moment he's incessantly whining about SHAWWWWWWWWWWNNNN!!!! and the next, he's being a cold and calculating unemotional killer. Speaking as a father, they got the characterization completely wrong, I cannot buy any of the dialogue on the entire arc because it is so moronically irrelevant. I would have come out of that cold sleep with one thing and one thing only on my mind: I'm gonna hunt that SOB down and find out who put him up to it. Then I'm going to tear down that organization brick by brick, and will not stop until there is not a single one left. Until I'm given evidence that he's alive, I would assume he is already dead, especially as it has been 'two hundred years'. If nothing else, he's dead of old age. Which means the entire conversation with Piper is completely skewed, because he's still trying to say his son was kidnapped, and might still be alive somewhere.

But no, take one step out into the Commonwealth, into the world that everything has become? No, no way my son is alive anymore. If he was very, very lucky... his death would have been swift. So since I can't save him... I'm going to avenge him. And if that means I have to build up the Minutemen to give me an army to do it with, then so be it.

And as for the plot twist? I wouldn't have believed him. My response would have likely been 'wait, you've got that line wrong. It's 'Luke, I am your father, not I am your son, which you can't be'. And even if he did manage to convince me... it wouldn't matter. "I see. It's the old Nazi Youth tactic. Take them young enough, indoctrinate them. I'm sorry I failed you, that I couldn't stop you from becoming... this. But I can at least do this one last thing..." *Headshot* "At least I made it quick and relatively painless. My final gift. Now pardon, while I take my revenge on the motherless bastards who did this to you." And then proceed to nuke the facility, no survivors, no evacuation order, no mercy. Wipe it clean, root and branch. Leave no stone upon another, and salt the earth as I go. To the Institute goes the harshest punishment of all... nothingness. No one left will remember them, or what they did, or how they tried to do it. No more production of Synths, no more records on how they were made, no more experiments with FEV. All their generations of work, not just undone, but made to have never existed. That, and nothing less, is the punishment for taking my son from me. May God, if he exists in this crapsack world, have mercy on their souls... for I surely will not. And if the Railroad doesn't like it... they can talk to my 105mm support fire.

The morality play? Completely irrelevant. The morality question of synths as human or not human? Also irrelevant. They are made by the Institute, therefore it doesn't matter if they are human or robot, they are a legacy of that place, information might be able to be extracted from them, even after total memory wipe, that might lead to clues about their existence. And so they must be eradicated.

In a nicer, kinder world? This might not be necessary. But in the lawless and desolate world that I have been placed in? I have to speak a language that everybody, from the Brotherhood Elders to the lowest Fiend Raider, understands. Touch me and mine, retribution will be swift and decisive. Sure, that makes me a tyrant. I fully accept and acknowledge that. But sometimes, tyranny is the step between anarchy and governance. You have to establish order before you can hand it over to the people. The people have to understand what order and peace mean before they can uphold and maintain it. I will give them that order. I will forge a new nation out of the ashes of this cesspit. And then, as the Roman Dictators of old did, I will hand the reigns of power over to an elected body. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. But at least it will be a legacy that will not be forgotten.

Of course... that's not an option. Because it isn't "Yes, I'll work with you", "I'll work with you if you pay", or "I don't approve of what you are doing". Which are the only three options in this game.

That such potential was completely and totally wasted is surely one of the biggest disappointments in gaming history. But, like the institute in my example, no one will ever know. Because no one gives a damn. All people want are FPS's with shiny graphics. So here you go. Have it. When a game in the actual FPS industry, Titanfall 2, has a better and more engaging characters, plot and storyline than you do, supposedly in the RPG category... you know that you've hit a new low.

[Calemyr]

Good. The other half of the argument, perfectly timed and eloquently put.

Needless to say, I don't share Shneekey's opinion on the matter, but it demonstrates my point wonderfully. The things I like about the game are the very things that others despise about it, and I personally believe that neither response is unreasonable.

So it's just a matter of if those issues intrigue you or annoy you.

[Triaxx]

I largely agree with Shneekey, though in a Bethesda written game, Manny would simply fail to exist until he was needed for the plot.

The trouble with pure Perks is something Shoddycast mentioned. Too many of them are just a bit of bonus damage. Like Shneekey's mention of being able to tweak robots to do stuff, perks should be more than just number's going up slightly. Blitz is a good perk in my opinion, because it's a slight alteration in how the world works with a bit of bonus damage.

[factotum]

I'm with Shneekey as well. According to my Steam stats I have 205 hours in Fallout 4 (and I bet that's at the low end of most people's playtime), so I can hardly turn round and say it's not an enjoyable game, or that I wished I'd played something else for that time; however, when you come to play Far Harbor and realise that your choices matter and that you have speech options which don't boil down to three different types of "Yes" plus one "Maybe", you can only dream of how good the game would have been if the rest of it had been like that.

[The_Jackal]

So, a weird side effect I've been noticing, following this thread: The more I read about Fallout IV, the less I want to play it. Like, there's some neat-sounding stuff, but I don't think I want to deal with the rest of it.

I think whether you like Fallout 4 depends heavily on what kind of gameplay you find engaging. If you're looking for a choose your own adventure RPG with some rudimentary FPS bolted to it, New Vegas is your medicine. If you want a robust FPS with a rudimentary RPG bolted to it, the Fallout 4 is going to be very satisfying. I'm definitely in the latter camp. I'm the kind of fellow who can't skip cut-scenes and dialogue fast enough.

[Winter_Wolf]

I think whether you like Fallout 4 depends heavily on what kind of gameplay you find engaging. If you're looking for a choose your own adventure RPG with some rudimentary FPS bolted to it, New Vegas is your medicine. If you want a robust FPS with a rudimentary RPG bolted to it, the Fallout 4 is going to be very satisfying. I'm definitely in the latter camp. I'm the kind of fellow who can't skip cut-scenes and dialogue fast enough.

Considering what I've seen in the cutscenes, I'm more in your camp than not, I think. Likewise I can't fathom how the character still thinks his son is not only alive, but even remotely possibly still a child. Maybe it's the shock putting him in deep denial of the passage of time and thinking that literally every other being is conspiring to falsely convince him it's two hundred years after he was put on ice, his spouse was shot in the head, and his kid was stolen.

That aside, I'm considering modding FO4 a bit. Any place to start? Looking mostly at good to have bug fixes/patches, maybe some UI stuff. Not necessarily strictly from the Nexus, but for the sake of convenience I prefer it. The fact that the game assumes an Xbox controller or the like instead irritates me no end.

[Triaxx]

I don't think it's the lack of comprehension of the 210 years, as much as a lack of intermediary reference as to how long between the kid being taken and him waking himself. Clearly it's long enough to put ice crystals on the SO. But there's no clocks showing off the date of the kidnapping, and giving reference to when the system failed completely. IE for the SS, just a moment has passed since they were re-popsicled.

As always, step one is the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch

Next up, to stop people from thinking you're attacking: Targeting HUD and Berry Mentats Enhanced This also turns it into friend/foe/corpse identification, so you don't have to hunt through grass for bodies. It also makes the effect turn off if you put your weapon away.

Quick Trade, when it works is fantastic. It doesn't always.

Assaultron Helmet with Glasses I consider this a bug-fix, but it may or not be for you.

War Veteran Female Sole Survivor basically gives your female Sole Survivor a warrior background as well as a law degrees.

Wall Pass-Through Power Conduits Gives you conduits you can push through walls, so you don't have to go all the way around with wires or conduits.

Vertical (Wall-Mounted) Power Conduits In addition to being vertical, they are customizeable, with the various components being separated so you can build your own network. And they'll cling to walls so you can run them up into the air so you're not constantly walking through wires.

And because the vanilla sound annoyed me, but I didn't want to mute it: Unobtrusive XP Gain Sound