Fallout VII - Vault-Tec calling

[druid91]

Just gonna say. I actually liked Fallout 4's story. I mean it makes a heck of a lot more sense then 'random mailman gets shot in the head only to become an unstoppable avatar of vengeance that saves or destroys the mojave because reasons.'

Like... seriously. I can get the argument that gating things behind the main quest causes issues. But even so. Even though I've come to HATE the quest where you go find Kellog.

The rest of the game is still fun, and still makes more sense than Fallout NV.

[Brookshw]

Just gonna say. I actually liked Fallout 4's story.

Agreed, good game and the non-workshop dlc's were good. My only qualm is the lack of non-radiant quests and the ending lacked the sense of closure and impact we saw in 1, 2 & NV.

[DigoDragon]

Just gonna say. I actually liked Fallout 4's story. I mean it makes a heck of a lot more sense then 'random mailman gets shot in the head only to become an unstoppable avatar of vengeance that saves or destroys the mojave because reasons.'

I dunno if that's fair. Once you reach high levels in any of the Fallout games you become pretty unstoppable and can determine the fate of a lot of people.

What I like about New Vegas' story-line is the part about being a "random mailman". The character's backstory is left open for you to fill in and play out however you want. The reasons I pick to save or destroy the Mojave are my own.

[Rynjin]

It's also heavily hinted throughout the DLC story chain and parts of the base game that Courier 6 is not just "a random mailman". There's every chance the justification is he was a whirling maelstrom of death even before the game started and being reset to level 1 is just him stumbling around after just getting up from being shot in the head (twice!) a few days prior. If you're delivering packages across the wasteland you kinda need to be Billy Badass to survive. Courier is really only a safe job in modern times (and even now there are risks).

Regardless, NV and 4 both have the most sensible explanation (which is that their backstories are vague). Better than 1, 2, and 3 which basically all start with "Random teenager gets quest to do a thing, becomes unstoppable".

[Anteros]

Are you playing it on console or PC? I know that the PC version doesn't actually have the entire game on the DVD, it installs what it can and then has to download the rest--I have no idea if the console version does the same.

It's a bad disk. I confirmed it this morning. Going to take it back and get it exchanged today or tomorrow.

Just gonna say. I actually liked Fallout 4's story. I mean it makes a heck of a lot more sense then 'random mailman gets shot in the head only to become an unstoppable avatar of vengeance that saves or destroys the mojave because reasons.'

Like... seriously. I can get the argument that gating things behind the main quest causes issues. But even so. Even though I've come to HATE the quest where you go find Kellog.

The rest of the game is still fun, and still makes more sense than Fallout NV.

That's not what people like about NV's story. People like the way that the characters are written and the Mojave feels like an actual society that's rebuilding after nuclear annihilation instead of a string of unrelated random encounters.

[Triaxx]

I have noticed, and I'm certain have noted before, that Fallout fans are divided into two camps on NV and seem to follow almost exclusively the line of where you came into the series. People who started off playing Fallout 1/2 on the West Coast, tend to be really big fans of NV, while people who started with Fallout 3 on the east coast tend to be much less favorably inclined towards New Vegas.

Except of course Jackal, who would prefer all superfluous things be stripped away. Graphics? Ditch 'em, brown's good enough. Moving three-dimensionally? Waste of buttons. Diverse enemies? Why more than one? Guns? One's enough. Story? Who cares.

Fallout 5: Corridor Shooter. Game starts, you need only hold 'W' and walk forward and shoot. Of course both the enemies and guns and corridor's are all uniform brown so you can't tell any difference between them. After 30 seconds you're informed you've won. Would you like to purchase the slightly longer corridor DLC? Only 79.99. Don't forget to buy some more bullets, only 7.99 each. You'd like a color other than brown? 99.95 each. After all, the only purpose of the game is to make as much money as possible, so anything that doesn't fit that goal has no place existing.

[Rynjin]

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I started with 3. I later went back and played the first two but didn't care at all for 1 (never even finished it) and wasn't much hotter on 2. Isometric games really aren't my jam.

[Cikomyr]

I played Fallout 1 and 2. Found them cute. Got a bit tired after 2 playthroughs..

Wait. I never finished FO2

[Triaxx]

Exactly my point. I honestly never finished 1 either. I could never come to grips with the game. 2? I sunk a lot of hours into 2. I finished it about 4 times, and I have to admit, the melee one was actually easier than talking my way to the top. Which feels strange, but once you know who you can melee and who gets knives thrown at them, (Or grenades if I was in a rush.), it's not that hard of a mode. And running up and bashing people with a super sledge never gets old. (This was the good F2 sledge that'd send even power armored chumps sliding for a dozen hexes.)

[LibraryOgre]

Exactly my point. I honestly never finished 1 either. I could never come to grips with the game. 2? I sunk a lot of hours into 2. I finished it about 4 times, and I have to admit, the melee one was actually easier than talking my way to the top. Which feels strange, but once you know who you can melee and who gets knives thrown at them, (Or grenades if I was in a rush.), it's not that hard of a mode. And running up and bashing people with a super sledge never gets old. (This was the good F2 sledge that'd send even power armored chumps sliding for a dozen hexes.)

Power Fists are how you say "I Love You" in Super Mutant.

(I did a playthrough of 1 & 2 a bit back, and had my Vault Dweller be a unarmed character just so the Chosen One would reasonably be one, too... then just buried myself in Unarmed, and punched my way through everything."

[Anteros]

I started with 3 as well and prefer New Vegas. 1 and 2 were too dated by the time I got to them. I did sink quite a few hours into them, but the UI was too dated for me to really enjoy it.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy 3. Fallout 3 is a great exploration sandbox. It just doesn't feel alive the way New Vegas does.

[The_Jackal]

Except of course Jackal, who would prefer all superfluous things be stripped away. Graphics? Ditch 'em, brown's good enough. Moving three-dimensionally? Waste of buttons. Diverse enemies? Why more than one? Guns? One's enough. Story? Who cares.

Fallout 5: Corridor Shooter. Game starts, you need only hold 'W' and walk forward and shoot. Of course both the enemies and guns and corridor's are all uniform brown so you can't tell any difference between them. After 30 seconds you're informed you've won. Would you like to purchase the slightly longer corridor DLC? Only 79.99. Don't forget to buy some more bullets, only 7.99 each. You'd like a color other than brown? 99.95 each. After all, the only purpose of the game is to make as much money as possible, so anything that doesn't fit that goal has no place existing.

Nice to see your hyperbole game is better than your rhetoric.

[Cikomyr]

Nice to see your hyperbole game is better than your rhetoric.

But if Fallout 5 is indeed a full-on retro-futuristic FPS a la CoD, and has 3x as much sales as Fallout 4 because of the crowd appeal, does it mean we are wrong to denounce the turns it took to appeal to a wider audience?

[druid91]

That's not what people like about NV's story. People like the way that the characters are written and the Mojave feels like an actual society that's rebuilding after nuclear annihilation instead of a string of unrelated random encounters.

I mean. Did it really? You had the same people living in the same bombed out remains of buildings that had been ramshackly retrofitted for another purpose. Honestly aside from Vegas itself I'd even say cities and towns in Fallout 4 seems more lived in.

I will totally admit that NV had better sidequests and a better sandbox to roam around and explore in. But honestly? The Characters were dull as ****. Like they were quirky and fun for the first ten minutes. But they stopped being so ten minutes after meeting them. The factions consisted of 'I can't Believe it's Not America' 'Awesome Robot Lich, who's just flat out the best choice for everyone.' 'Omnicidal Neutral' and 'Evil Slavers who are evil. And Slavers.'

New Vegas is a great game. There are definitely parts I like better than Fallout 4. But it's not some great story masterpiece.

[Caelestion]

You could say that about a lot of things, but at least most of the story is coherent on its own merits.

In F3, Dad meets his maker for a stupid reason and even the end-goal of the entire game (the water purifier) is mostly pointless, with you almost pulling an Indiana Jones throughout the game. In F4, all the constant guilt and time pressure the main story ladles upon you is undone with every new settlement you establish (and basically any other diversion), and that's not even considering the stupid bait-and-switch that makes up over half of what passes for a main plot. What's more, the Institute is stupid evil and Father's motives make little sense. In fact, Kellogg is the most consistent plot character and that's only because you spend a good half-hour or so literally running around in his memories.

[DigoDragon]

New Vegas is a great game. There are definitely parts I like better than Fallout 4. But it's not some great story masterpiece.

I don't think anyone accused NV of being a masterpiece.

I like that the different factions of NV are aware of each other and you have a pretty decent number of quests dealing with their relationships. A few quests even put you at odds against other quests. And there's enough wiggle that you pick options that go against the factions you want to support without completely ruining the quest-line. For example, brokering a deal with the Brotherhood instead of destroying them for the NCR. The bear won't like it, but they begrudgingly accept what you did and move you to the next task. In turn, this means not getting Veronica mad at you for blowing up her family. :3

[Triaxx]

I'll reference the unPC adage about arguing on the internet here. Hyperbole is easier than rhetoric, particularly when dealing with someone so set in their position they refuse to fully acknowledge counter arguments. Occasionally reducto ad absurdum is the only way to prove a point.

The story and setting are inextricably linked in the case of New Vegas. It's as much where it takes place as anything. For one, you have to remember, the Mojave is still something of a warzone. Yes, it's a cold war, but it's just under the surface to the point the Legion has hit squads running around in NCR territory, and hitting NCR patrolled if not controlled settlements. People have other things to get up to than spring cleaning.

Of course I will admit that the story gets muddled a fair bit once you kill Benny and it sort of fragments into savior of the wastes mode. In my case, something has happened to make me care about the wasteland by then, some little tableau. In truth most of the time it's the companions that get me. Cass, Boone, Raul. All of them have stories woven in and around parts of the wasteland so they make me care. Care that someone is trying to strangle commerce, care that Slavers are taking people from their homes, care about how the world has changed, about what it's become, what it's becoming.

If you don't want to care, then nothing can be done.

[The_Jackal]

I'll reference the unPC adage about arguing on the internet here. Hyperbole is easier than rhetoric, particularly when dealing with someone so set in their position they refuse to fully acknowledge counter arguments. Occasionally reducto ad absurdum is the only way to prove a point.

There's no doubt that hyperbole is easier than rhetoric. I'll acknowledge your counter-arguments, I just don't they take into account simple economic concepts like opportunity cost. You're making an aesthetic argument. The part of your argument I take issue with is the 'economy of choices' fallacy, that there was some magical set of choices they could have made which would have given me what I want and you what you want. I don't think that Bethsoft is lazy or stupid, and I think an argument that says that there was an easy solution to keep the branching intricate story while maintaining the big improvements to gameplay and production values is quite simply ridiculous.

If you don't want to care, then nothing can be done.

It's not that I don't care, I care about other things more. I also don't think the Fallout 4 writing is necessarily that bad. It's got its good parts and its bad parts, better and worse characters, bigger and smaller plot holes, but at my age, there's nary a piece of popular media I can't pick apart if I put my mind to it. Willing suspension of disbelief is a thing I've learned to embrace, so as to improve my enjoyment of various media. It's also very difficult for me to take any of this heavily satirical setting seriously. It's like nitpicking Monty Python and the Holy Grail on historical accuracy.

[Caelestion]

Now, clearly F4 is successful enough to have its own paid mods micro-transactions creation club, but given that it's apparently not nearly as successful as Skyrim, which is now on a dozen platforms and has its second round of game modifications purchasable with real money, how long do you think it will be before they give up on the Creation Club and just turn to beating the undead corpse of Skyrim for more and more cash, rather than simply produce another sequel to either franchise?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Going back to the point of a new thread, I saw one vote for "More fun than a barrel of plasma grenades", any others want to chime in before we run out of page space and get threadlocked?

[unseenmage]

New Thread - Still Avoiding Concord
New Thread - Another Thread Needs Your Help General
New Thread - Brotherhood of Infighting

[Brookshw]

New Thread - Another Thread Needs Your Help General

Seconded 10 letters

[Triaxx]

Let's be honest, writing is very firmly NOT Bethesda's strong suit. I never expected a strong branching path story. The fact that one appeared in Far Harbor, is perhaps the single most surprising thing they've done since Morrowind. That suggests the issue may be one of scale, rather than of quality.

I've honestly never been one to worry much about story myself. I'm perfectly happy with 'Ho, bad guys!' and to be allowed to go. The story, for what it is, is fine. It's a serviceable excuse to go forth and shoot enemies until they stop shooting back. Story's never been MY issue.

Lack of options of design, in particular character design, and thus it's limited replayability is my issue. I understand streamlining the game. And in Skyrim it worked out, you had the option of three distinct character types. Fighter, Mage, Rogue, and then could mix and match. An illusionist Fighter with a penchant for pickpocketing. (Though everyone just went stealth archer exclusively apparently.)

Fallout 4 doesn't get that. It's got two yes/no questions. Stealth? Power Armor? Weapons are down to shoots/doesn't shoot. Being a specific energy weapon build doesn't work as well, since there's no specific benefit to using energy weapons. In fact between Ghouls and Robots being super common and having high energy defense, Energy weapons are crippled. And there are no perks to counteract the weakness. Commando's Armor Piercing only affects DR, not energy resistance. There's no equivalent of energy piercing. So they streamlined the game, but in doing so streamlined an option out of it.

I don't mind the story being uninteresting, or broken. If the world isn't a completely open unguided sandbox, so what. But it's all about the gameplay to me. Can I replay this section, do something different and have the game feel new for having made that change? Is there a difference between sneaking into a room and headshotting each person, and running in, spraying bullets at them? Is there a difference depending on the gun I use? Fallout 4 only has it falling along the lines of those two yes/no questions. And that makes replaying the game unenjoyable, once you've done it that four times.

Of course modding helps, and we're getting to the point where the big compilation will turn up. I'm just looking to see what it is.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

New Thread - Another Thread Needs Your Help General

Seconded!

I think we have a clear winner here.

[Triaxx]

One thread, ready to be dicussed in: Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General