One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

[Traab]

Ivankov doesnt really strike me as THAT powerful really. Not a mook, but not really one of the higher ups either. As far as serious fights have gone, ivankov has gotten stomped by the warden of impel down and of course, akianu.

[Kato]

Ivankov doesnt really strike me as THAT powerful really. Not a mook, but not really one of the higher ups either. As far as serious fights have gone, ivankov has gotten stomped by the warden of impel down and of course, akianu.

I can't remember how the fight with Magellan went but I seem to remember him being pretty evenly matched with Kuma (at least). And I feel like they were regarded among the top ranks among the revolution but I could be wrong about that.

[Lord of the Helms]

Tashigi I'll admit, Smoker I'm not so sure how much he has grown in not power and how much just in rank. We didn't see him fight seriously often.
Come on, Buggy is a joke. He may have gotten a little stronger but unless he really picked up after the time skip he's still way far behind, if he even did anything.
And Sabo wasn't a thing, pre-timeskip, so how would you judge that?
Blackbeard I'll agree got stronger from stealing the quake power but otherwise? Again, when did we see what he could do?
Just the same applies to all Supernovae which only showed up in the new world and of which only Law had the screen time to make any comment on what he could do before and now (and my verdict on that is "little has changed")

For Smoker: He had only ever heard about Haki before the timeskip and now has serious Armament Haki powers, so at least in that respect he has definitely levelled up. He was still worfed pretty badly, though, losing to Vergo and getting curbstomped by Doflamingo.

For Blackbeard: He went from being scared of facing off against Akainu to being recognized as an emperor and willing to take on the number one of the revolutionaries, so it's reasonable to assume he's gotten stronger at least from mastering his new quake powers. As for Law, he went from struggling against a single pre-timeskip Pacifista (together with Kidd no less) and no indication of having any Haki powers to soundly trashing two Vice-Admirals, including one purported master of Armament Haki. So definitely more than a little has changed for him.

[lord_khaine]

Thats actually another pair of candidates for the top 20 list.
Both Ceasar and Magellan also have DF fruits that makes them extremely powerfull against anyone without extreme poison resistance.

As for Ivankov, well he? was able to defeat Sanji rather easily. Seems to be one of the leaders in the revolutionary army.
And fought Kuma to a standstil. The same Kuma who earlier trashed the pre-timeskip strawhat crew and made it look easy.

[Traab]

As for magellan, from what i recall, she basically spent 90% of the fight dodging and using delay tactics like pretending to get a face full of poison, screaming excessively then hee hawing over how she tricked him because it was just the comically overdone makeup that got melted. Or dodging his poison ball spit attack by pretending her boot laces came undone. She still got wrecked by him in the end though. I think luffy (with armor help from mr2) did more effective damage than iankov ever did.

[lord_khaine]

I think your confusing Kuma and Magellan there?
Otherwise your comment dont make much sense.
Kuma is the one Ivankov went all out on.
Magellan is the complete monster you really, really dont want to fight in an enclosed space without a Logia DF.

[Tvtyrant]

The Tea Party in the anime feels very different from the manga. The manga version felt like everything took a few seconds and was simultaneous, the anime has an almost silly amount of time go by.

I actually am enjoying the anime version more, stretching it out reduces the chaos of the manga (which is less realistic but more coherent). Also Oven's OPness starts early, in a nore traditional arc having him fight one of the crew would be a great battle.

On that note, who is going to fight what commander in the big rematch? I imagine Luffy fights Big Mom, so Katakuri is going to fight Zoro, Cracker is going to fight Sanji and Jimbei is going to fight Smoothie (the only one we didn't get to see in action.)

Oven is probably fighting Brook or Franky?
Not sure after that.

[lord_khaine]

Im not certain there will be a big rematch.
The SH to start with dont have anything else they want from Big Mom.

[Tvtyrant]

Im not certain there will be a big rematch.
The SH to start with dont have anything else they want from Big Mom.

But Big Mom has a lot of grudges against them. I think it more likely that her crews are going to interfere with another arc then they return to Toto land.

Luffy took territory from her, ruined her plan to acquire the Germa, defeated 2/3 of her Sweet Commanders, humiliated her empire and was accorded a massive reputation boost for it. She pretty much has to do something to save face.

Obviously the Kaido arc is going to happen first, which will drop the number back to four emperors, but I can't imagine Big Mom doesn't do something before the end of the story.

[Traab]

But Big Mom has a lot of grudges against them. I think it more likely that her crews are going to interfere with another arc then they return to Toto land.

Luffy took territory from her, ruined her plan to acquire the Germa, defeated 2/3 of her Sweet Commanders, humiliated her empire and was accorded a massive reputation boost for it. She pretty much has to do something to save face.

Obviously the Kaido arc is going to happen first, which will drop the number back to four emperors, but I can't imagine Big Mom doesn't do something before the end of the story.

Think she might show at marineford 2.0? A secret entrant to the battle who shows up just as we think luffy and his friends and allies have an advantage. Here comes the full complement of big moms strongest and angriest kids alongside an enraged big mom acting like a super moria by using her abilities to slaughter everyone around them and use that to power her side up. Honestly I could totally see that happen, just one more wrench thrown into the big war to settle things with the marines.

As for khaine, no, in the impel down battle, ivankov was play acting a lot with magellan. Taking a hit to the face, and screaming about the burning and how she was melting then laughing it off as just her makeup. Then spent the next minute or so spamming winks at magellan destroying hydra heads and such but not doing any damage while he wound up his blowfish spit attack, which she dodged by pretending her boot was untied, then laughing about how they dont lace up at all. After that she went full kama kenpo and got stomped.

[Tvtyrant]

Think she might show at marineford 2.0? A secret entrant to the battle who shows up just as we think luffy and his friends and allies have an advantage. Here comes the full complement of big moms strongest and angriest kids alongside an enraged big mom acting like a super moria by using her abilities to slaughter everyone around them and use that to power her side up. Honestly I could totally see that happen, just one more wrench thrown into the big war to settle things with the marines.

I like that. It could also go like with White Beard and Shanks blocks Big Mom so Luffy can smash Akainu.

[lord_khaine]

As for khaine, no, in the impel down battle, ivankov was play acting a lot with magellan. Taking a hit to the face, and screaming about the burning and how she was melting then laughing it off as just her makeup. Then spent the next minute or so spamming winks at magellan destroying hydra heads and such but not doing any damage while he wound up his blowfish spit attack, which she dodged by pretending her boot was untied, then laughing about how they dont lace up at all. After that she went full kama kenpo and got stomped.

Yes i know that. But you wrote it like it was a response to my comment about Ivankov fighting Kuma.
And then start your own post like were you referencing that. But talking about the Magellan fight instead.

[Traab]

Yes i know that. But you wrote it like it was a response to my comment about Ivankov fighting Kuma.
And then start your own post like were you referencing that. But talking about the Magellan fight instead.

You know, its entirely possible. I actually did start that off by claiming ivankov didnt fight kuma, it was some pacifistas, then I did a quick marineford trawl and found out yep, she fought the brainwashed guy. So I went back and deleted that and went to magellan instead. Sorry if I screwed up the phrasing.

[lord_khaine]

You know, its entirely possible. I actually did start that off by claiming ivankov didnt fight kuma, it was some pacifistas, then I did a quick marineford trawl and found out yep, she fought the brainwashed guy. So I went back and deleted that and went to magellan instead. Sorry if I screwed up the phrasing.

Great, just wanted to get it cleared out.

[Sigh]

The anime is doing a decent job at portraying Katakuri as a Paramecia, they show a scene of him getting shot up by a machine gun and instead of having the bullets go all the way through like a Logia they DO impact, but then get pushed out similar to Luffy's stretching.

[Traab]

The anime is doing a decent job at portraying Katakuri as a Paramecia, they show a scene of him getting shot up by a machine gun and instead of having the bullets go all the way through like a Logia they DO impact, but then get pushed out similar to Luffy's stretching.

Wasnt a big part of his early appearance revolving around how they couldnt be sure if he was a paramecia or a logia? I remember there was some discussion on that at least. Im also enjoying the anime doing a good job of showing off brook being badass (though he doesnt actually have one. YOHOHOHOHO!) On a more serious note, watching him fight oven made me wonder what a confrontation between him and aokiji would be like. One using flat out ice powers, the other the cold of the grave. I think the apparant lack of haki would probably make it an easy stomp for the admiral. But cold versus cold could be interesting.

[ben-zayb]

Wasnt a big part of his early appearance revolving around how they couldnt be sure if he was a paramecia or a logia? I remember there was some discussion on that at least. Im also enjoying the anime doing a good job of showing off brook being badass (though he doesnt actually have one. YOHOHOHOHO!) On a more serious note, watching him fight oven made me wonder what a confrontation between him and aokiji would be like. One using flat out ice powers, the other the cold of the grave. I think the apparant lack of haki would probably make it an easy stomp for the admiral. But cold versus cold could be interesting.

Aokiji vs Oven? I'd like to see that! Oven's definitely no pushover, but I wonder how he and his DF stacks up to Akainu's? That could be a good indicator on how he would fare against Aokiji

[lord_khaine]

Wasnt a big part of his early appearance revolving around how they couldnt be sure if he was a paramecia or a logia? I remember there was some discussion on that at least. Im also enjoying the anime doing a good job of showing off brook being badass (though he doesnt actually have one. YOHOHOHOHO!) On a more serious note, watching him fight oven made me wonder what a confrontation between him and aokiji would be like. One using flat out ice powers, the other the cold of the grave. I think the apparant lack of haki would probably make it an easy stomp for the admiral. But cold versus cold could be interesting.

Why would that make a difference when they are already in 2 wastly different weight classes.
Brook is a competent member of the straw hats. But he is not part of the monster trio (quartet?).

[Traab]

Why would that make a difference when they are already in 2 wastly different weight classes.
Brook is a competent member of the straw hats. But he is not part of the monster trio (quartet?).

I was talking about anime brook as he has been pulling off some fairly solid stunts lately. I am aware that he would lose big time to the admiral, I was just saying that without haki there isnt much he could even try, though it would be amusing to see two guys whose attacks involve a lot of freezing going at each other. It would probably be similar to the luffy katakuri fight in that one side has a greatly advanced version of the others powers.

[lord_khaine]

Oh yeah doh.. of course. Thought it was in reference to a haki vs haki matchup.
But of course, armament haki is almost a "you need to be this tall to dance with the original admirals."

[Devonix]

As things stand its still up in the air weather or not luffy's win against Katakuri is legit. A rematch is almost certain. Just wondering if its before or after the Rob Lucci rematch.

[Lord of the Helms]

As things stand its still up in the air weather or not luffy's win against Katakuri is legit. A rematch is almost certain. Just wondering if its before or after the Rob Lucci rematch.

No, it really isn't. If anything, Luffy was at a disadvantage due to everything he'd been through before that battle (long fight against Cracker, beating from Sanji, beating from Big Mom's army) whereas Dogtooth went into it fresh, and because he had to spend so much time taking hits while trying to figure out how to hit Dogtooth at all, as well as improving his observation Haki. I doubt there will be a rematch and don't see how it'd be necessary any more than, say, a rematch with Crocodile. He won, Dogtooth accepted his win and outright said he expects Luffy to come after Big Mom. Also, he's going after Kaidou next. Wouldn't make any sense for him to face off against a Yonkou, then go back to fighting a Yonkou's underling whom he defeated before already.

[ben-zayb]

Was he even full powered at all in any of his recent previous "boss battles". Seems like he and Zorro always had the disadvamtage in each of their battles.

[Tvtyrant]

No, it really isn't. If anything, Luffy was at a disadvantage due to everything he'd been through before that battle (long fight against Cracker, beating from Sanji, beating from Big Mom's army) whereas Dogtooth went into it fresh, and because he had to spend so much time taking hits while trying to figure out how to hit Dogtooth at all, as well as improving his observation Haki. I doubt there will be a rematch and don't see how it'd be necessary any more than, say, a rematch with Crocodile. He won, Dogtooth accepted his win and outright said he expects Luffy to come after Big Mom. Also, he's going after Kaidou next. Wouldn't make any sense for him to face off against a Yonkou, then go back to fighting a Yonkou's underling whom he defeated before already.

OTOH Katty impaled himself specifically because of intervention by his sister and Luffy had no chance to win by that point.

I am still sad no one got to fight smoothie.

[lord_khaine]

I am still sad no one got to fight smoothie.

Leads back to how rarely we have seen any woman in a drawn out slugging match. The closest i can remember is that Nami has electrocuted some.

OTOH Katty impaled himself specifically because of intervention by his sister and Luffy had no chance to win by that point.

Yeah Dogtooth had grown to respect Luffy at that point. Taking him on in a fight between equals. I still think the outcome balanced on a razors edge though.
The main reason it went as it did, is pretty likely that Luffy had more to fight for. He had both his life and the fate of his crew on his mind.
Dogtooth only had the rather heavy weight of his reputation to shoulder. He straight up made it clear how heavy it weighted upon him.

That, more than anything else. Is why i think Luffy won.

[LaZodiac]

I can respond to chapter 903 now. Golden Weeeek.

Sanjis having his raid suit canister with him is DEFINITELY going to come back later. Also Nami STOLE ZEUS. She's got a wizard familiar now, that RULES.

Awe, poor Luffy's bounty went down. That's sad. I wonder why. I do find it really funny in the SUPER cool montage of all the fallout of this event, Bege is pissed that he didn't get the top billing as ringleader. It's his plan and Luffy stole it from him.

You know One Piece is a special kind of series when Coby and Helmeppo can show up and I can go "oh sweet these guys again I missed em". Compare and contrast now to when we first met them.

...oh. That's what happened to his bounty. I ****ing love that.

[Lord of the Helms]

Was he even full powered at all in any of his recent previous "boss battles". Seems like he and Zorro always had the disadvamtage in each of their battles.

Well, he was at full power for his fight with Cracker and had Nami help him soften up the crackers to make them edible (which he didn't need for Dogtooth's Mochi, funnily enough). Then again, Cracker did go down from a single successful attack once he got to land it.

I'd say Luffy wasn't at a disadvantage against Doflamingo either; in fact, Doffy was arguably in worse shape than him going into their final fight, what with getting hurt badly by Law's Gamma Knife, and Luffy still needed help to buy him time to recover his Haki for a second round of Gear Fourth. He did totally dominate Doffy while in Gear Fourth though.

Against Ceasar, his only disadvantage was not knowing extent of his powers at first, and that caused him a foolish loss against an opponent far weaker than himself.

Against Hody, yeah, he did have a huge handicap just to make the fight even remotely challenging (and even then, it wasn't really).

Dogtooth was the first opponent of his who was tough enough to outright slug it out with Luffy in Gear Fourth, but ultimately, if barely, lost. Now, narratively, Luffy needs to move on to a tougher challenge. I'm intrigued what Oda has in store for him next...

[Traab]

Well, he was at full power for his fight with Cracker and had Nami help him soften up the crackers to make them edible (which he didn't need for Dogtooth's Mochi, funnily enough). Then again, Cracker did go down from a single successful attack once he got to land it.

I'd say Luffy wasn't at a disadvantage against Doflamingo either; in fact, Doffy was arguably in worse shape than him going into their final fight, what with getting hurt badly by Law's Gamma Knife, and Luffy still needed help to buy him time to recover his Haki for a second round of Gear Fourth. He did totally dominate Doffy while in Gear Fourth though.

Against Ceasar, his only disadvantage was not knowing extent of his powers at first, and that caused him a foolish loss against an opponent far weaker than himself.

Against Hody, yeah, he did have a huge handicap just to make the fight even remotely challenging (and even then, it wasn't really).

Dogtooth was the first opponent of his who was tough enough to outright slug it out with Luffy in Gear Fourth, but ultimately, if barely, lost. Now, narratively, Luffy needs to move on to a tougher challenge. I'm intrigued what Oda has in store for him next...

Against doflamingo, hadnt luffy spent the entire day fighting in the gladiator arena? Plus he had to at least fight bellamy which he didnt want to do, plus some other random combat. I think thats the main point really, luffy always reaches the "final boss" after an extended struggle just tor each him. That said, doflamingo DID in fact also have to fight before they met. Which is fairly rare.

[Tvtyrant]

There have been a few opponents who were in bad shape fighting luffy I think.

Don Krieg was close to death from starvation, Magellan's rematch was after fighting multiple high level opponents, Akainu got beaten up so hard he is practically Luffy level determinator.

[Traab]

There have been a few opponents who were in bad shape fighting luffy I think.

Don Krieg was close to death from starvation, Magellan's rematch was after fighting multiple high level opponents, Akainu got beaten up so hard he is practically Luffy level determinator.

Krieg I will grant you, but honestly the others just were there to show how far luffy still had to go. Against magellan, like you said, dude had been fighting his own gauntlet of deadly opponents and luffy with the help from others was barely able to survive the combat. He basically delayed the inevitable at best. Same for akianu, its not like luffy was in any condition to fight him at the time. I think TECHNICALLY the same could go for lightning lad as he had obliterated most of luffys crew by the time they fought. Though it was less a fight for him to defeat the strawhats than him fairly casually shutting them all down iirc. So its not like he started the fight tired or somewhat injured.

And of course this is all pretty standard shonen stuff. Virtually no hero gets to go fight the end game boss while fully rested. Naruto had to fight for a full day against god awful numbers of zetsus, reincarnated super ninja, tobito, madera, etc etc etc. All before finally getting to fight with kaguya. I didnt follow bleach very well but I imagine it was similar there. He didnt just wake up after a relaxing weeks vacation and a full nights sleep then teleport to ywach for the fight. Its honestly why I think luffy would win a straight up rematch with katakuri. Luffy being fulled rested, fighting someone he now knows the skills of and how to counter them, with no outside interference or exhausting couple days of endless fighting and injuries. It wouldnt be a stomp, far from it. But I still think in the end it would be decisively a win for luffy.