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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    FC 2 mentions pit fiends with max hp etc. formed from drops of Asmodeaus's blood from his giant celestial body on Nessus. How many of these are there, and do they all just work as guards on the 9th layer?
    We don't know how many, and they're reserved in Nessus, yes.

    If there are a lot why not send some up for the blood war to swing it majorly?
    Because Asmodeus has no interest in "swinging the War majorly" and has other plans down the line for his forces.

    And how do the other pit fiends, either regular or of note, feel about those fiends who got it all for free?
    They rarely spare them a thought. The cohorts of Nessus aren't players in infernal politics, control no territories, and hold no positions. To pit fiends, they aren't rivals.

    And again why aren't those super pit fiends replacing the generals because they are just better.
    They're not, though; max HP is no substitute for what the Dark Eight bring to the table, which is in some cases literal millennia of specialized experience. That's sort of like saying a super soldier could take over for an admiral.

    Also, is there a list of remaining Obyrith lords anywhere other than FC1?
    Nope.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Who's the oldest to youngest of the Dragon Deity Siblings: Bahamut, Tamara, Hlal, Tiamat, Falazure, Garyx, Astilabor, Chronepsis, Sardior, Lendys and Aasterinian?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    A friend of mine is just starting out as a DM, and has made a dungeon with heavy fiendish influence. The cultists who built the place millions of years ago (the setting writers had no sense of time scale), and worshipped a deity of unmaking. The place is littered with both devils and yugoloths, still bound by ancient magics.

    What advice would you give him in running the yugoloths and devils down there? How would Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil interact, trapped alone with each other for so long? General kinds of tactics they might use? Many of these fiends would have spent the vast majority of their existence away from the politics of their races, as well as need to work with creatures of different principles, and have magical obligations that might restrict them from turning the place into another Gehenna.

    What's your perspective on what would happen in such a dungeon?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Who's the oldest to youngest of the Dragon Deity Siblings: Bahamut, Tamara, Hlal, Tiamat, Falazure, Garyx, Astilabor, Chronepsis, Sardior, Lendys and Aasterinian?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    What advice would you give him in running the yugoloths and devils down there? How would Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil interact, trapped alone with each other for so long? General kinds of tactics they might use? Many of these fiends would have spent the vast majority of their existence away from the politics of their races, as well as need to work with creatures of different principles, and have magical obligations that might restrict them from turning the place into another Gehenna.

    What's your perspective on what would happen in such a dungeon?
    The devils would organize, as they do, and likely enlist other sentients to serve them in the manner of organized crime. They would almost certainly openly codify rules about devils harming devils, specifically don't do that, but that would be little more than a veneer of good faith to cover for using mortals as catspaws against one another. The yugoloths would be known factors without loyalties - dangerous solo players in a team game, each with no more love for other yugoloths than for any other. Without the trust of others to maintain an organized power base, each would have a history of treachery that results in them being called upon only when their specific skillset is so required that no safer alternative is available. The yugoloths would likely prioritize escape in any dealings, since they devoutly despise being bound. The devils, while they would likely appreciate freedom, likely believe they could get out eventually of their own accord once they've outmaneuvered all rivals and taken whatever magic and knowledge they possess. This might even be true.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Who's the oldest to youngest of the Dragon Deity Siblings: Bahamut, Tamara, Hlal, Tiamat, Falazure, Garyx, Astilabor, Chronepsis, Sardior, Lendys and the Aasterinian?
    afroakuma you forgot to answer my question.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Inspired by another thread, failed to find source material on the matter. Do we know anything about the opinions of Mount Celestia on mortal governance? (As in, how mortals ought to run their governments) Or, failing that, what do we know about Mount Celestia's own government?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    afroakuma you forgot to answer my question.
    ...well how the devil did that happen? I had it written up. Ah hash.

    Basic answer: Chronepsis is likely oldest and may be a sibling or other near-contemporary of Io rather than one of Io's children. Given the nature of Io, most likely technically still derived from the Ninefold Dragon, but there you are. Vorel was first of Io's "children" and Vorel is dead. Bahamut and Tiamat are roughly, if not exactly, concurrent. Astilabor, Aasterinian, Hlal, and Sardior are likely the younger cohort. Tamara and Lendys would likely be somewhere in between. That leaves Garyx and Faluzure, wherever they go. Possibly the same generation as Tamara and Lendys. That's all to say, of course, that this is pure speculation entirely on the basis of because you asked - it's not something I've ever concerned myself with prior.

    Quote Originally Posted by White Blade View Post
    Inspired by another thread, failed to find source material on the matter. Do we know anything about the opinions of Mount Celestia on mortal governance? (As in, how mortals ought to run their governments)
    Nothing canonical on it, and I would expect they have had long eons to come to grips with the fact that any stabs at "perfect" governance are limited by the factors complicating life on the Prime.

    Or, failing that, what do we know about Mount Celestia's own government?
    The Mount is administrated by the leaders of the archons, the Celestial Hebdomad. One member reigns over each layer, and all six of the lower Hebdomad answer to Zaphkiel the Watcher, who keeps the hidden seventh Heaven. Each of the known layers comprises 192 provinces, each administrated by a warden archon.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    So I got a whole bunch of questions that concern the rough settlement history of the sphere. Because no, I can't just come in and ask something simple for a change.

    1. The origins of spheres

    Have all spheres that are and ever will be always existed, or can spheres come into being (whether spontenously or by divine will), or is it a mixture of both?

    If it's a mixture, do we know which of the known spheres are which?

    2. The settlement of spheres

    Am I right to assume that a sphere can become populated either by a) migration (e.g. via spelljammer), b) deities creating life, or c) life occuring spontenously (which eventually gives rise to deities)?

    If so, do we know which spheres' populations got started which way?

    3. The relative age of populated spheres

    I know you recently answered a question about how the calendars of various worlds line up. Based on this kinda info, which spheres can be placed in an order of how old they are (in terms how much history has occurred there since it got populated)?

    4. The life span of spheres

    I have heard that some cataclysms can straight up break a sphere, and more commonly, even if a sphere itself remains intact the contained system sometimes has a shelf-life (e.g. Athas has not quite gone bad but it smells funny).

    But is it a rule that a given sphere can only sustain life for a limited amount of time before it somehow breaks or just becomes to inhospitable?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    ...well how the devil did that happen? I had it written up. Ah hash.

    Basic answer: Chronepsis is likely oldest and may be a sibling or other near-contemporary of Io rather than one of Io's children. Given the nature of Io, most likely technically still derived from the Ninefold Dragon, but there you are. Vorel was first of Io's "children" and Vorel is dead. Bahamut and Tiamat are roughly, if not exactly, concurrent. Astilabor, Aasterinian, Hlal, and Sardior are likely the younger cohort. Tamara and Lendys would likely be somewhere in between. That leaves Garyx and Faluzure, wherever they go. Possibly the same generation as Tamara and Lendys. That's all to say, of course, that this is pure speculation entirely on the basis of because you asked - it's not something I've ever concerned myself with prior.



    Nothing canonical on it, and I would expect they have had long eons to come to grips with the fact that any stabs at "perfect" governance are limited by the factors complicating life on the Prime.



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    I'm curious about Vorel. Was Vorel male or female? What kind of dragon Vorel was anyway? And finally what was Vorel alignment?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    On the subject of crystal spheres: Athas is cut off from both spelljamming and planar travel to the wider multiverse (barring a handful of exceptions), apparently has its own local copies (or cut-off chunks) of the Astral, totally-not-Ethereal Gray, and possibly various Inner Planes accessible within the sphere, and is often referred to as a "closed sphere" or "sealed sphere." The only way I know of to seal a crystal sphere is with Proctiv's seal crystal sphere, but that doesn't mention anything about planar side effects.

    1) Does sealing a sphere, with that spell or otherwise, also automatically "seal in" relevant portions of the Transitive Planes and other coexistent/coterminous planes, similar to Athas?

    2) If not (and I'm assuming not), is it possible for a god/planar lord/epic wizard/etc. to do in a canonical way--i.e. not just handwave divine power or whip up an arbitrary Proctiv's Cut A Crystal Sphere Off From The Planes epic spell--and if so, who/what might be able to do that, and how?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jowgen View Post
    So I got a whole bunch of questions that concern the rough settlement history of the sphere. Because no, I can't just come in and ask something simple for a change.
    I mean I can still answer you simply, especially if ("if" ) your questions are too broad in scope.

    Have all spheres that are and ever will be always existed, or can spheres come into being (whether spontenously or by divine will), or is it a mixture of both?

    If it's a mixture, do we know which of the known spheres are which?
    New spheres can come into being, we don't know whether it happens naturally or whether they are all directed by an overdeity at some point. Presumably it's a mix, but our information regarding overdeities is much too thin to say for certain.

    Am I right to assume that a sphere can become populated either by a) migration (e.g. via spelljammer), b) deities creating life, or c) life occuring spontenously (which eventually gives rise to deities)?
    That would be logical to me, yes. Occurring spontaneously I don't so much know about, though, considering the panoply of supernatural forces kicking about.

    If so, do we know which spheres' populations got started which way?
    There's no way I'm going to usefully exhaustively answer this. Krynnspace and Realmspace would be examples of spheres that were populated entirely by deific creation.

    I know you recently answered a question about how the calendars of various worlds line up. Based on this kinda info, which spheres can be placed in an order of how old they are (in terms how much history has occurred there since it got populated)?
    The Broken Sphere is (was) the oldest crystal sphere. Realmspace is older than Krynnspace. History's not much help otherwise.

    I have heard that some cataclysms can straight up break a sphere, and more commonly, even if a sphere itself remains intact the contained system sometimes has a shelf-life (e.g. Athas has not quite gone bad but it smells funny).
    There is only one instance of a sphere breaking. The first sphere. The circumstances required to do so are totally unique, against the laws of arcane metaphysics, and impossible to recreate. As for Athas, the sphere's contamination is due to powerful magic being used to deplete the system primary and would not have been a natural phenomenon.

    But is it a rule that a given sphere can only sustain life for a limited amount of time before it somehow breaks or just becomes to inhospitable?
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    I'm curious about Vorel. Was Vorel male or female?
    What kind of dragon Vorel was anyway?
    The kind with dragony chaeacteristics. Presumably. Never specified. Likely no kind.

    And finally what was Vorel alignment?
    Unspecified but presumably true neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    On the subject of crystal spheres: Athas is cut off from both spelljamming and planar travel to the wider multiverse (barring a handful of exceptions), apparently has its own local copies (or cut-off chunks) of the Astral, totally-not-Ethereal Gray
    To be specific, the Gray is a phenomenon that contaminates the transitive links of the sphere, a kind of "dead-end street" to (most) Astral conduits and a deadly labyrinth to the Deep Ethereal. Functionally it's still essentially the Border Ethereal, just poisoned.

    1) Does sealing a sphere, with that spell or otherwise, also automatically "seal in" relevant portions of the Transitive Planes and other coexistent/coterminous planes, similar to Athas?
    No.

    2) If not (and I'm assuming not), is it possible for a god/planar lord/epic wizard/etc. to do in a canonical way--i.e. not just handwave divine power or whip up an arbitrary Proctiv's Cut A Crystal Sphere Off From The Planes epic spell--and if so, who/what might be able to do that, and how?
    I mean if you could lure Pandorym to the sphere, that tends to do it once its sign is strong enough... but functionally no.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Was Vorel male or female?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Was Vorel male or female?
    Man I keep slipping up with these. Vorel was male.

    Also just to head off any further questions, the sum total of info we have on Vorel is covered above. Vorel died, Tiamat killed him, Tiamat blamed Bahamut, it didn't work because Io's not an idiot, and that's it. Vorel was not the god of any dragon type, was never physically described, and no attributes are allocated to Vorel besides "male" and "dead." There is no more information to give.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Man I keep slipping up with these. Vorel was male.

    Also just to head off any further questions, the sum total of info we have on Vorel is covered above. Vorel died, Tiamat killed him, Tiamat blamed Bahamut, it didn't work because Io's not an idiot, and that's it. Vorel was not the god of any dragon type, was never physically described, and no attributes are allocated to Vorel besides "male" and "dead." There is no more information to give.
    Ok thank you.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Why do liches that have achieved divine status always have girly-sounding names?

    Vecna only a little bit, Mellifleur extremely so, and Velsharoon moderately-but-also-kinda-fungus-ish.
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    Question Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    I may have already asked this in a previous thread, but... does Chernovog rate a mention in D&D anywhere outside the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft adventure?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I may have already asked this in a previous thread, but... does Chernovog rate a mention in D&D anywhere outside the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft adventure?
    Oddly enough, no. The Slavic pantheon article in Dragon 290 excluded him completely. I wonder how he feels about that.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Me again. Is Io a great father to most of his children? I know that he has a great relationship with Bahamut but not so much with Tiamat. What about the rest of his children? Any history on that note?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Me again. Is Io a great father to most of his children? I know that he has a great relationship with Bahamut but not so much with Tiamat. What about the rest of his children? Any history on that note?
    I mean, he doesn't have a great relationship with Bahamut. Io is no happier about Bahamut choosing Good to oppose Tiamat than he is about Tiamat killing Vorel. Io is a remote deity and his relationships with the other draconic deities are not elaborated on in any meaningful fashion.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    So theres a shadow planet on the shadow plane isnt there also an ethereal version of the material world?

    If one conjures a mountain with magic is one also conjuring a mountain on these planes?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Afro, you know of course this diagramm of the ranks of the baatezu. I've been wondering how you would fit all those types of baatezu that were added to the game after the diagramm was created into the hierarchy. Specifically, I'm asking about the following: Agonarch, Ayperobos, Bueroza, Dogai, Malebranche, Merregon, Narzugon, Orthon, Paeliryon, Xerfilstyx (all in FC II), Ghargatula (BoVD), Logokron (ToM), Advespa (MM2), Remmanon and Gulthir (MM 5).

    Also, do similiar visualisations of promotion and demotion paths for Archons, Eladrin and Yugoloth? For Rilmani and Guardinals we don't need any, Tana'ri are too random for something like that, and for Slaads and Modrones we already have them.

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Afro, you know of course this diagramm of the ranks of the baatezu.
    Wait. That diagram implies that all Erinyes, Kocrachon, Falxugon, Brachina are all based on Abishai, which would have huge chunks of the Infernal Heirarchy sworn to Tiamat at some point or other.

    I don't think that can accurate, but I will defer to Afro.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Is the cycle of outsiders dying, returning to their home plane, and being recycled powered by the divine or by planar mechanics?

    Do I need to be a deity to grow my own outsiders or have an epic Genesis spell?
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Do Petitioners in Divine Realms tend to retain more of their original identities than Petitioners that generically appear on Outer Planes?

    What would be some notable examples of deities that grant afterlives that
    1. Explicitly let you remain "you", without losing your memories or sense of self.
    2. Offer potential for the worthy to advance into more powerful and influential forms than just being basic 2HD Petitioners

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Howdy! Bit of a grab-bag of questions:

    Regarding the variety of "evil star" entities such as Acamar, Hadar, etc: are they strictly a Faerunian presence? Are they strictly a 4e-and-on presence?

    Is there any information on Thoon or the associated mind flayers beyond the one monster manual they appear in? Is there enough information to draw any connection between their quintessence and any other times that word has been used to describe a substance?

    In your discussion of the beginning of the planes (featuring the Friendly Mentoring Aboleth), you note the first creatures in the universe as Dragons and Draeden. Are these Dragons meant to be the same general type as the dragons that exist in most worlds (ie of the metallic and chromatic, etc variety), or some sort of 'primal' dragon that no longer exists?

    Following on that you note the first gods as Io and Rhiannon, prior to any sentient Prime life other than Aboleth. If I'm reading properly, the only sentients at that time are your "first" dragons, the slumbering draedens, the creatures that will become fey, the aboleths, and early elemental life. Are Io and Rhiannon meant to be created by one of these groups in some fashion, by the Old Ones, or deliberately unknown?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    So theres a shadow planet on the shadow plane isnt there also an ethereal version of the material world?
    No; the Ethereal does not contain a copy of the Material Plane. Shadow does. The land, buildings, etc. you see on the Ethereal are those of the Material Plane itself, assuming we're not talking about structures built on the Ethereal proper.

    If one conjures a mountain with magic is one also conjuring a mountain on these planes?
    Shadow will likely acquire a shadow of it, although it's totally up in the air how fast this would transpire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Afro, you know of course this diagramm of the ranks of the baatezu.
    T'is dumb, yes. As Fable Wright points out. Correct advancement is found in FCII. The chart you linked uses information from Faces of Evil and essentially writes paths based on strict observances on advancement caps for various devil types.

    I've been wondering how you would fit all those types of baatezu that were added to the game after the diagramm was created into the hierarchy. Specifically, I'm asking about the following: Argonarch, Ayperobos, Bueroza, Dogai, Malebranche, Merregon, Narzugon, Orthon, Paeliryon, Xerfilstyx (all in FC II), Ghargatula (BoVD), Logokron (ToM), Advespa (MM2), Remmanon and Gulthir (MM 5).
    Ugh... making me do work. Also what the devil is an "argonarch?" My attempt to Google it returns "Schmerzteufel," which suggests to me you were aiming for Excruciarch.

    The order of the baatezu hierarchy is as follows:

    The Least
    • Nupperibo (not in the line)
    • Lemure
    • Ayperobos (nonstandard caste)
    • Spinagon

    The Lesser
    • Merregon (less independent and less agency than a spinagon but part of the Infernal armies and more well-regarded)
    • Advespa
    • Barbazu
    • Imp (not a baatezu type, but these can be promoted to baatezu, be created from lower-ranked baatezu, and are generally pretty happy being complicit in devil society's in-group)
    • Narzugon
    • Gulthir (demotion caste, only exists as a punishment for higher-ranking devils)
    • Bueroza
    • Kochrachon/falxugon
    • Erinyes
    • Amnizu

    The Greater
    • Malebranche (demotion caste, only exists as a punishment for higher-ranking devils)
    • Osyluth/orthon
    • Hamatula
    • Logokron
    • Xerfilstyx (demotion caste, only exists as a punishment for higher-ranking devils)
    • Gelugon (most common caste promoted to pit fiend)
    • Brachina (only promoted from former erinyes)
    • Ghargatula (demotion caste, only exists as a punishment for higher-ranking devils)
    • Remmanon
    • Cornugon (demoted to gelugon to prepare for pit fiend rank)
    • Dogai (outside the hierarchy and not made from other baatezu, but this is roughly the status they command)
    • Paeliryon
    • Pit fiend

    Rough estimate by me. Baatezu are by no means required to go through the whole hierarchy. I left off the abishai because they're a separate and usually isolated track.

    Also, do similiar visualisations of promotion and demotion paths for Archons, Eladrin and Yugoloth?
    There aren't any, and for archons it's pretty easy, since it's step by step. Eladrin don't change forms, barring exceptional circumstances. There is a sort of progression for yugoloths which I think is roughly canoloth, dergholoth, mezzoloth, piscoloth, hydroloth, yagnoloth, nycaloth, arcanaloth, ultroloth (with marraenoloths being orthagonal to it all, somewhere in the piscoloth/hydroloth section; gacholoths being unspecified; echinoloths and skeroloths being poorly-defined later additions but likely lower on the food chain).

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Is the cycle of outsiders dying, returning to their home plane, and being recycled powered by the divine or by planar mechanics?
    Planar mechanics govern soul motion.

    Do I need to be a deity to grow my own outsiders or have an epic Genesis spell?
    Bit confused by the phrasing here... is it (be a deity OR epic Genesis spell, Y/N?)

    You could always be a lady, have a memorable evening with something otherworldly, pee on a stick, get lucky... you'd be growing your own outsider then. Native outsider, mind...

    I'm not really sure what other method you'd be asking about. Are you asking if you can create new outsiders wholecloth with non-epic magic? I would assume "no" pretty much by definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmosh View Post
    Do Petitioners in Divine Realms tend to retain more of their original identities than Petitioners that generically appear on Outer Planes?
    Not particularly.

    What would be some notable examples of deities that grant afterlives that
    1. Explicitly let you remain "you", without losing your memories or sense of self.
    Can't think of one offhand. Most of the time you do remain "you," but memories do slip. Gods want that, remember - you're supposed to be becoming more like them.

    2. Offer potential for the worthy to advance into more powerful and influential forms than just being basic 2HD Petitioners
    That would be a pretty nonstandard option. Certainly some deities make use of distinctive powerful outsiders as servants (minions of Set, for example) but even within the ranks of their faithful, that would be the exception (and almost certainly not some sort of rubberstamp bureaucratic process) rather than the rule. The worthy are, obviously, most Worthy to become one with their deity, so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham View Post
    Regarding the variety of "evil star" entities such as Acamar, Hadar, etc: are they strictly a Faerunian presence? Are they strictly a 4e-and-on presence?
    4E-and-later from what I can see.

    Is there any information on Thoon or the associated mind flayers beyond the one monster manual they appear in?
    Thoon is Thoon, and Thoon is all!... in the MMV and nowhere else.

    Is there enough information to draw any connection between their quintessence and any other times that word has been used to describe a substance?
    There's enough information to conclusively draw a perpendicular line cutting off any connection. Same term, different goo.

    In your discussion of the beginning of the planes (featuring the Friendly Mentoring Aboleth), you note the first creatures in the universe as Dragons and Draeden. Are these Dragons meant to be the same general type as the dragons that exist in most worlds (ie of the metallic and chromatic, etc variety), or some sort of 'primal' dragon that no longer exists?
    I didn't say dragons. I said Dragon. And I meant Io. Who, of course (who knows, really) may have been multiple entities that merged into one. Whatever the nature of the original dragon or dragons, no creature of that kind exists any more and has not for the vast portion of multiversal history.

    Following on that you note the first gods as Io and Rhiannon, prior to any sentient Prime life other than Aboleth. If I'm reading properly, the only sentients at that time are your "first" dragons, the slumbering draedens, the creatures that will become fey, the aboleths, and early elemental life. Are Io and Rhiannon meant to be created by one of these groups in some fashion, by the Old Ones, or deliberately unknown?
    Outside of the aboleths (and they may have been expected), everything would have been set in motion by the Old Ones in some fashion. The original dragon or dragons and draeden or draedens constituted life, and the nature of life and its possibilities was embodied in what became Rhiannon. When life was allowed to be - when the draedens ceded ground - there she emerged, and without a battle to wage and all of creation awaiting, there Io emerged.
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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Thank you very much!

    A few more questions that came to mind:

    Does the worship of Inner Planes creatures empower deities, or is it just those on the Material Plane?

    If a god is trapped, imprisoned or otherwise sealed up in a crystal sphere (say via the Godtrap or a set of very unlikely circumstances and a similar magical shenanigan), is that god trapped or what-have-you throughout hte planes, or is it just the sphere-specific manifestation of that god that is affected?

    Do you think there's anything significant or suggestive about the fact that Yan-C-Bin takes a physical form reminiscent of the Vaati?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    ...
    Planar mechanics govern soul motion.



    Bit confused by the phrasing here... is it (be a deity OR epic Genesis spell, Y/N?)

    You could always be a lady, have a memorable evening with something otherworldly, pee on a stick, get lucky... you'd be growing your own outsider then. Native outsider, mind...

    I'm not really sure what other method you'd be asking about. Are you asking if you can create new outsiders wholecloth with non-epic magic? I would assume "no" pretty much by definition.
    ...
    Am trying to find a way to either create new outsiders and their cycle of returning to their "native" plane when they're slain on another plane.
    OR
    How to transplant some of that cycle to a new, possibly even artificially made, demiplane.

    It's for my own curiosity and for a theoretical optimization game I'm in.

    I made a thread for discussion and collecting of RAW on how 3.x outsider soul transmigration functions if you're interested.
    How to Bootleg Outsiders

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Ugh... making me do work. Also what the devil is an "argonarch?" My attempt to Google it returns "Schmerzteufel," which suggests to me you were aiming for Excruciarch.
    Huh, they changed the name in the German translation, but only of that specific type of devil. That's... different.
    Yes, Excruciarch was supposed to be what I asked for. You didn't put them in the list, so... do they fit best between Bueroza and Kochrachon/Falxugon or on the same line as Kochrachon/Falxugon?

    • Dogai (outside the hierarchy and not made from other baatezu, but this is roughly the status they command)
    Obvious follow-up question is obvious: If they aren't made from other baatezu, where do Dogai come from? Are they like Erinyes in that they purely reproduce sexually? If that's the case, can they be promoted to other types? Or is FC 2 mistaken (like with the nupperibo) and they aren't baatezu at all?

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    Default Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham View Post
    Does the worship of Inner Planes creatures empower deities
    Depends on the creature, buuuut for the vast majority, no.

    If a god is trapped, imprisoned or otherwise sealed up in a crystal sphere (say via the Godtrap or a set of very unlikely circumstances and a similar magical shenanigan), is that god trapped or what-have-you throughout hte planes, or is it just the sphere-specific manifestation of that god that is affected?
    Depends on the specific circumstances. In the case of the Godtrap, the deity was totally trapped and was not still kickin' about on the Planes.

    Do you think there's anything significant or suggestive about the fact that Yan-C-Bin takes a physical form reminiscent of the Vaati?
    Considering they're from the same plane and he allied with them during the War of Law and Chaos...

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Am trying to find a way to either create new outsiders and their cycle of returning to their "native" plane when they're slain on another plane.
    OR
    How to transplant some of that cycle to a new, possibly even artificially made, demiplane.
    Outside of making up your own epic spell to do that, nothing comes to mind.

    It's for my own curiosity and for a theoretical optimization game I'm in.
    Just FYI, I deeply hate theoretical optimization and would rather not be asked to participate. Still happy to answer questions that don't pertain to trying to break the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzardok View Post
    Huh, they changed the name in the German translation, but only of that specific type of devil. That's... different.
    Yes, Excruciarch was supposed to be what I asked for. You didn't put them in the list, so... do they fit best between Bueroza and Kochrachon/Falxugon or on the same line as Kochrachon/Falxugon?
    They're the same thing as kochrachons, just redesigned a tad. You'll note kochrachons aren't in the list in the appendix. Same CR, same niche.

    Obvious follow-up question is obvious
    I mean it's not, since if you have the book with the dogai in it, you have the explanation...

    If they aren't made from other baatezu, where do Dogai come from?
    Quote Originally Posted by FCII
    The first of their kind were mere shadows of vaguely sentient, malicious will. Asmodeus ordered these creatures collected, melted in a pit of fire, and their essences reforged into assassin devils.
    And that's where murder devils come from.
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